All things CoronaVirus

[DocBarrister]

There’s no question the United States missed the opportunity to get ahead of the novel coronavirus. But the window for making important decisions hasn’t closed. The choices we and our leaders make now will have an enormous impact on how soon case numbers start to go down, how long the economy remains shut down and how many Americans will have to bury a loved one because of covid-19.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... story.html

Gates’s recommendations make clear the debacle of the Trump administration’s response to date. The administration should put Gates’s recommendations into action.

DocBarrister

[old salt]

Unlikely hot spot -- Albany GA. Spread among well wishers at funerals.

https://www.news4jax.com/news/georgia/2 ... -covid-19/

NY, NJ, MI & LA have all now passed WA & CA in number of deaths.
Mitigation is working in our first 2 hot spots.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-in ... e-by-state

[old salt]

No surprise. The stupid side of humans.

Savor the Karmic irony of Franklin Graham's charity erecting & staffing a 68 bed tent COVID ICU in Central Park in just 3 days time.
Will MSNBC viewers & NY Times readers boycott ?

[wgdsr]

Looks like deaths will exceed 4000 by midnight. Currently less than 200 to go.

Teddy Roosevelt is a mess. Raises the question how many other Navy vessels have a problem?

Looks like over 23,500 new cases (a record), over 700 additional deaths (a record), and closing in on 4,000 total deaths.

The Teddy Roosevelt needs to be evacuated. Navy brass need not guess what will happen ... just take a look at the cruise ships, which provide much more living space than a carrier.

Today, Trump’s own experts are projecting 100,000-240,000 American deaths ... more deaths than the rest of the world combined. We’re looking at 80,000 deaths just by August under rosy scenarios.

How is that even possible?!?

We’re talking about deaths matching the Vietnam War and Korean War by August.

What the hell?!?

Any idiot still think this is like the flu?

Any moron still think Trump is doing a good job?

If the actual toll is even half the projections, this will be one of the greatest tragedies in American history.

DocBarrister

firstly... we had a couple great models, supposedly... south korea and japan.
no country has the same cultures, so they couldn't be cloned maybe, but at least modeled.
however... italy, spain, france, uk. who has handled this well there? maybe a number of countries ultimately will come out with good outcomes -- germany is one out of europe that could join the group, but who knows? they're climbing. india, too. 1.3 billion in lock down supposedly does the trick. i hope latin america has it figured out, we'll see.
look at everyone's numbers. many are just a week or 2 behind. belarus says drink vodka and go to saunas. sweden is choosing to ignore it. other slavic countries started there and reversed. latin america maybe has hope. warmer weather?
many countries are likely lying.

one thing this has unearthed is that we as a country were woefully unprepared to handle this. when it gets worse and likely every person in america knows someone or more that passes, that will maybe change.
there is little question thus has been a cluster. i struggle to imagine a different outcome with any others at the helm.

[old salt]

firstly... we had a couple great models, supposedly... south korea and japan.
no country has the same cultures, so they couldn't be cloned maybe, but at least modeled.
however... italy, spain, france, uk. who has handled this well there? maybe a number of countries ultimately will come out with good outcomes -- germany is one out of europe that could join the group, but who knows? they're climbing. india, too. 1.3 billion in lock down supposedly does the trick. i hope latin america has it figured out, we'll see.
look at everyone's numbers. many are just a week or 2 behind. belarus says drink vodka and go to saunas. sweden is choosing to ignore it. other slavic countries started there and reversed. latin america maybe has hope. warmer weather?
many countries are likely lying.

one thing this has unearthed is that we as a country were woefully unprepared to handle this. when it gets worse and likely every person in america knows someone or more that passes, that will maybe change.
there is little question thus has been a cluster. i struggle to imagine a different outcome with any others at the helm.

Although they won't admit it now (other than Boris Johnson), I sense that most western leaders secretly hoped that herd immunity would work, while isolating & protecting the high risk population. Italy showed that would not work.

It would have taken remarkable courage for any western leader to impose the necessary steps early enough to achieve results like S Korea & Japan. Because of SARS & other recent epidemics, East Asian countries were better prepared than their western counterparts.

[DocBarrister]

Looks like deaths will exceed 4000 by midnight. Currently less than 200 to go.

Teddy Roosevelt is a mess. Raises the question how many other Navy vessels have a problem?

Looks like over 23,500 new cases (a record), over 700 additional deaths (a record), and closing in on 4,000 total deaths.

The Teddy Roosevelt needs to be evacuated. Navy brass need not guess what will happen ... just take a look at the cruise ships, which provide much more living space than a carrier.

Today, Trump’s own experts are projecting 100,000-240,000 American deaths ... more deaths than the rest of the world combined. We’re looking at 80,000 deaths just by August under rosy scenarios.

How is that even possible?!?

We’re talking about deaths matching the Vietnam War and Korean War by August.

What the hell?!?

Any idiot still think this is like the flu?

Any moron still think Trump is doing a good job?

If the actual toll is even half the projections, this will be one of the greatest tragedies in American history.

DocBarrister

firstly... we had a couple great models, supposedly... south korea and japan.
no country has the same cultures, so they couldn't be cloned maybe, but at least modeled.
however... italy, spain, france, uk. who has handled this well there? maybe a number of countries ultimately will come out with good outcomes -- germany is one out of europe that could join the group, but who knows? they're climbing. india, too. 1.3 billion in lock down supposedly does the trick. i hope latin america has it figured out, we'll see.
look at everyone's numbers. many are just a week or 2 behind. belarus says drink vodka and go to saunas. sweden is choosing to ignore it. other slavic countries started there and reversed. latin america maybe has hope. warmer weather?
many countries are likely lying.

one thing this has unearthed is that we as a country were woefully unprepared to handle this. when it gets worse and likely every person in america knows someone or more that passes, that will maybe change.
there is little question thus has been a cluster. i struggle to imagine a different outcome with any others at the helm.

The result would have been very different with someone other than Trump at the helm.

South Korea’s success in managing the novel coronavirus had nothing to do with “culture.”

No, South Korea’s president in 2015 was widely accused of bungling the nation’s response to the MERS coronavirus. At the time, she was vilified for allowing the MERS coronavirus to spread to 186 patients, with 38 dead. Those numbers may seem quaint today, but it was the largest outbreak of MERS outside of the Middle East.

https://www.who.int/westernpacific/emer ... s-outbreak

South Koreans are fast learners, and this time, when the nation had its first confirmed case of the novel coronavirus, the government treated it like the major national emergency that it was. They initiated the most aggressive testing program in the world and got the pandemic under control within 20 days. South Korea has remained vigilant and is not out of the woods yet, but they learned from their mistakes in 2015 and probably saved the lives of tens of thousands of people.

In contrast, Trump remained delusional and in denial for six precious weeks, and only seemed to gain some understanding of the magnitude of the crisis today ... nearly ten weeks after he should have acted on a war footing. Nothing like the sobering reality of potentially 100,000-240,000 deaths to knock a moron like Trump out of his delusional stupor.

No ... let there be no doubt ... the United States could have been South Korea. Now, the United States may have more coronavirus deaths than the rest of the world combined.

Trump’s supporters were warned ... he is unfit to be president. Now their foolishness will cost tens of thousands of American lives.

DocBarrister

[wgdsr]

he handled this like a class a buffoon.
in our 2 party system, joe biden is the presumptive candidate. hillary? he/she would get to a much different outcome? please. you're delusional if you think that would happen.

we don't elect leaders that can lead in a crises or bring folks together anymore. we elect folks that lead parties.

as you said, south korea went thru it and was prepared. we were not. dismissing culture is your prerogative but also misguided, imo.

[old salt]

So what's the excuse for EU countries ?

S Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Singapore ? ...sure it's not cultural (in a +++ way) ???

I've lived in or spent significant time in all 4 countries.
Their cultures are different, their amount of freedoms are less than in the west.
In this situation, it served them well.

[DocBarrister]

he handled this like a class a buffoon.
in our 2 party system, joe biden is the presumptive candidate. hillary? he/she would get to a much different outcome? please. you're delusional if you think that would happen.

we don't elect leaders that can lead in a crises or bring folks together anymore. we elect folks that lead parties.

as you said, south korea went thru it and was prepared. we were not. dismissing culture is your prerogative but also misguided, imo.

You are delusional if you think Hillary would have gone into denial and done nothing for six weeks. Those six weeks of inaction were the ballgame.

DocBarrister

[DocBarrister]

So what's the excuse for EU countries ?

S Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Singapore ? ...sure it's not cultural (in a +++ way) ???

I've lived in or spent significant time in all 4 countries.
Their cultures are different, their amount of freedoms are less than in the west.
In this situation, it served them well.

Other than K-pop, soap operas, and weird films, South Korea is arguably best known for their violent protests and riots. The South Korean people are almost vicious towards the leaders that have failed them ... putting one president in prison and driving another to suicide.

South Koreans don’t always fall in line with government edicts ... that is not their “culture.” Very different in Japan and Singapore. Koreans fell in line this time because they learned their lesson from 2015.

I can only imagine what the South Koreans would do to Trump if he had failed them like he has failed us.

DocBarrister

[wgdsr]

he handled this like a class a buffoon.
in our 2 party system, joe biden is the presumptive candidate. hillary? he/she would get to a much different outcome? please. you're delusional if you think that would happen.

we don't elect leaders that can lead in a crises or bring folks together anymore. we elect folks that lead parties.

as you said, south korea went thru it and was prepared. we were not. dismissing culture is your prerogative but also misguided, imo.

You are delusional if you think Hillary would have gone into denial and done nothing for six weeks. Those six weeks of inaction were the ballgame.

DocBarrister

and she is better than all the other world leaders how, exactly? she would've quarantined anyone that came in contact with everyone tested positive for 2-4 weeks in america? and had everyone cell phone tracked? (ok, maybe if not an election year) and had tens of millions of tests at the ready with a couple of cases documented?
or hundreds of thousands of ventilators stockpiled? billions of ppe of all types?
you're just working on a different timeline. a week or 2. could the damage be less? yes. does our guberments work until they have to?

nah. where's congress right now?

[wgdsr]

he handled this like a class a buffoon.
in our 2 party system, joe biden is the presumptive candidate. hillary? he/she would get to a much different outcome? please. you're delusional if you think that would happen.

we don't elect leaders that can lead in a crises or bring folks together anymore. we elect folks that lead parties.

as you said, south korea went thru it and was prepared. we were not. dismissing culture is your prerogative but also misguided, imo.

You are delusional if you think Hillary would have gone into denial and done nothing for six weeks. Those six weeks of inaction were the ballgame.

DocBarrister

and she is better than all the other world leaders how, exactly? she would've quarantined anyone that came in contact with everyone tested positive for 2-4 weeks in america? ordered cell phone tracking on everyone? (ok, maybe... if not an election year) and had tens of millions of tests at the ready with a couple of cases documented?
or hundreds of thousands of ventilators stockpiled? billions of ppe of all types?
you're just working on a different timeline. a week or 2. could the damage be less? yes. does our guberments work until they have to?

nah. where's congress right now?

[calourie]

he handled this like a class a buffoon.
in our 2 party system, joe biden is the presumptive candidate. hillary? he/she would get to a much different outcome? please. you're delusional if you think that would happen.

we don't elect leaders that can lead in a crises or bring folks together anymore. we elect folks that lead parties.

as you said, south korea went thru it and was prepared. we were not. dismissing culture is your prerogative but also misguided, imo.

You are delusional if you think Hillary would have gone into denial and done nothing for six weeks. Those six weeks of inaction were the ballgame.

DocBarrister

Gotta agree with the Doc on this one. Trump's constant, as in ridiculously continual, self absorption, and ability to insist and convince enough people that every criticism of his behavior is a hoax has finally met an event that can't be spun in those terms. It is what kept him from acknowledging any point of view, other than his "I know more about everything than anyone knows about anything" that presented the possibility that a Covid-19 outbreak could be devastating to this country This character deficit left him earlier on making pronouncements to the country regarding the disease that put us sufficiently behind the curve in terms of self protecting that it is very likely we will become the poster nation for how not to deal with a crisis of this nature. All you have to do is watch the timeline of his recorded comments about the outbreak to comprehend that almost any public figure would have begun to direct the country to a better outcome sooner. To not acknowledge that indicates a TDS on the part of his supporters stronger than any on the part of his opposition.

[wgdsr]

not a supporter. his mismanagement has been abysmal.
my premise is we were woefully unprepared and no prospective leader would've changed the ultimate outcome.
there is simply nothing to indicate otherwise.
that is not a defense of how this has been handled.

[calourie]

not a supporter. his mismanagement has been abysmal.
my premise is we were woefully unprepared and no prospective leader would've changed the ultimate outcome.
there is simply nothing to indicate otherwise.
that is not a defense of how this has been handled.

wgdrs, I'll go along that this was going to be a nightmare no matter who was in charge. The question we are left with now is really only how long it takes for us to get up to speed enough to get on top of this thing. A month right now seems optimistic.

[DocBarrister]

not a supporter. his mismanagement has been abysmal.
my premise is we were woefully unprepared and no prospective leader would've changed the ultimate outcome.
there is simply nothing to indicate otherwise.
that is not a defense of how this has been handled.

That is not true. Hillary Clinton was the Secretary of State. She knows the leaders in China well. She knows the leaders in South Korea well. She knows the leaders in Taiwan well. She knows the leaders in Singapore well. She knows the leaders in Europe well.

She knows them all, and she would have been constantly speaking with them, learning what they’re doing. What works. What doesn’t.

You also forget that Hillary Clinton understands the American health care system better than just about any other political leader in America. She has been working on health care issues for decades.

You forgot just who the hell she is ... arguably the most qualified candidate for president in modern American history.

Indeed, Hillary Clinton would have been almost uniquely qualified to lead not only the United States, but the entire world in combatting the novel coronavirus.

Voting for Trump instead may just have cost 100,000 American lives. A steep price for those who liked Trump’s vulgarity, racism, and misogyny.

DocBarrister

[DocBarrister]

not a supporter. his mismanagement has been abysmal.
my premise is we were woefully unprepared and no prospective leader would've changed the ultimate outcome.
there is simply nothing to indicate otherwise.
that is not a defense of how this has been handled.

wgdrs, I'll go along that this was going to be a nightmare no matter who was in charge. The question we are left with now is really only how long it takes for us to get up to speed enough to get on top of this thing. A month right now seems optimistic.

Sorry to be so blunt, but it is already too late “to get on top of this thing.”

Listen carefully to the words Drs. Birx and Fauci use. They are talking about “mitigation,” not containment or prevention.

Put another way, that is public health-speak for saying Chernobyl has already blown up. We are no longer talking about containing a meltdown or preventing an explosion ... it’s already too late for that. We are talking about mitigation ... cleaning up the catastrophe and trying to minimize even more deaths.

Except that Chernobyl was minor league stuff compared to the horrors we are facing.

I am hoping we can limit fatalities to “just” 50,000 souls or less. But it may be too late for that, too.

DocBarrister

[DocBarrister]

24,742 new confirmed cases.

912 additional deaths.

For the first time, the United States led the daily death count. We could exceed 1,000 deaths tomorrow.

Italy is no longer the worst-case scenario. We are.

This is just tragic. All those families who will be left behind, grieving.

DocB

[wgdsr]

not a supporter. his mismanagement has been abysmal.
my premise is we were woefully unprepared and no prospective leader would've changed the ultimate outcome.
there is simply nothing to indicate otherwise.
that is not a defense of how this has been handled.

That is not true. Hillary Clinton was the Secretary of State. She knows the leaders in China well. She knows the leaders in South Korea well. She knows the leaders in Taiwan well. She knows the leaders in Singapore well. She knows the leaders in Europe well.

She knows them all, and she would have been constantly speaking with them, learning what they’re doing. What works. What doesn’t.

You also forget that Hillary Clinton understands the American health care system better than just about any other political leader in America. She has been working on health care issues for decades.

You forgot just who the hell she is ... arguably the most qualified candidate for president in modern American history.

Indeed, Hillary Clinton would have been almost uniquely qualified to lead not only the United States, but the entire world in combatting the novel coronavirus.

Voting for Trump instead may just have cost 100,000 American lives. A steep price for those who liked Trump’s vulgarity, racism, and misogyny.

DocBarrister

wow.
hope you and yours are ok otherwise.

[6ftstick]

24,742 new confirmed cases.

912 additional deaths.

For the first time, the United States led the daily death count. We could exceed 1,000 deaths tomorrow.

Italy is no longer the worst-case scenario. We are.

This is just tragic. All those families who will be left behind, grieving.

DocB

Italys fatality rate is 11%. US is .66%. Far from the worst case scenario.