2020 Elections - Trump FIRED

[njbill]

I heard Brett peed on a tree at a tailgate one time in New Haven.

He thought it was a tree. Turns out it was the leg of the Dean of Students. Was all over the Yale Daily News.

[cradleandshoot]

Okay, since i am in a foul mood today, and this thread has already nosedived into the gutter, i can take my own unscientific survey. MD this is where i suggest you go out into the lobby for a smoke until my vulgar thoughts blow over A show of hands from all of you out there...

Which disgusting possibility is more true...

Did Brett cock slap more young drunken coeds than hound dog Bill raped and defiled in his prime years?

The answer depends on whether you are a democrat or a republican.

I hope you did not read this MD. i know you are shaking your life long republican head thinking what the heck is wrong with this guy.

How many of you college frat boys have your own disgusting immoral skeletons in your closets from your college days??

i bet quite a few more than will ever admit to their own debaucheries from their college days. You were all a bunch of angels I am sure.

[MDlaxfan76]

Again, seems like just trolling if you aren't willing to proportionately rip Trump.

I'm all for holding all these guys to account for past transgressions, whether 10, 20, 30 or 40 years ago. I do want victims to get a far better listen than they have in the past. Whether that's a male wrestler or a female gymnast, some starlet, or just worker in a factory or restaurant, this stuff needs to be heard with respect and dealt with as the facts are found.

But obviously not every accusation is true, so we need to be careful not to condemn someone entirely without a chance defend themselves. We should look for a pattern if any such can be found.

That said, I have no difficulty saying that Trump, Weinberg, Clinton, Cosby... and on and on have clearly been egregious, serial lifetime abusers, in some cases rapists.

I'm not there with Joe Biden, nor am I with Kavanaugh, regardless of the truth of any given allegation. Very, very hard to know.

I actually have to run but I had this one question on your post: why do I need to be equally dismissive of Trump? There's a whole thread here called Orange Duce dedicated to trashing the guy, plus every other thread is probably 80% anti-Trump posting. If a few pages on one thread gets dedicated to exposing the hypocrisy of the Left on #MeToo, I don't think that's gonna tilt the balance of morality in Trump's favor.

Serious answer?
Because if one is to target "hypocrisy" one needs to look in the mirror first.
Hold your own folks to a high standard, then point fingers if you must.

The #MeToo folks have gone after egregious abusers regardless of party affiliation. That's been an equal opportunity campaign.

If you or any other Trump supporter (sorry, you've made clear that you'll vote for him over any likely Dem candidate, most of whom you despise, disdain and disparage with regularity) are willing to say that Trump should be in jail for his many abuses, and then want to give this accuser of Biden her own say, fine with me.

I've never been a fan of Joe as it is.
I do prefer his moderate policy views, and I'd vote for a tree stump over Trump, but there are certainly other moderates I'd rather have in the Oval Office the next 4 years.

I don't think Trump should be "in jail" for any of his alleged offenses, nor Joe Biden. I'm amused at the hypocrisy of the #MeToo movement and anyone who says 'believe all women', then turns tail when a woman accuses them of the same conduct.

Just repeat: I believe in due process.

glad you believe in due process, but what Trump has admitted to (much less the rape) should land someone in jail.
sorry, it's not remotely a close call...so why do Trumpists give him a pass?
And then want to go after anyone with a D?
Easy answer, right?

[MDlaxfan76]

Okay, since i am in a foul mood today, and this thread has already nosedived into the gutter, i can take my own unscientific survey. MD this is where i suggest you go out into the lobby for a smoke until my vulgar thoughts blow over A show of hands from all of you out there...

Which disgusting possibility is more true...

Did Brett cock slap more young drunken coeds than hound dog Bill raped and defiled in his prime years?

The answer depends on whether you are a democrat or a republican.

I hope you did not read this MD. i know you are shaking your life long republican head thinking what the heck is wrong with this guy.

How many of you college frat boys have your own disgusting immoral skeletons in your closets from your college days??

i bet quite a few more than will ever admit to their own debaucheries from their college days. You were all a bunch of angels I am sure.

no worries, Cradle.
Clinton way worse, no question. I was clear about which bucket Clinton is in, IMO.
But hey, I'm an R so that doesn't prove anything.

No pass for Kav, though. None of what he's been accused of is ok.
I was in a rowdy frat at a rowdy school and certainly didn't do any of that...but then again I had a steady girlfriend from freshman week on, which probably kept me out of trouble. Certainly heard stories of some pretty darn bad behavior.

Where Kav somewhat redeems himself in my estimation, from whatever drunken awful behaviors of earlier, is his apparently good behavior with women through the latter half of his adult life. It could well be that he recognized he'd done wrong and was determined to clean it up.

Where he lost me, if I'm correct about that realization, was that he lies about it now. He could have said that he drank way too much as a kid and therefore doesn't know for sure if he made mistakes, sure as heck hopes not, but he can't rule it out, and is certainly is sorry for any pain he ever caused.

That would have been worthy of applause. The indignation turned me off big time.

[Peter Brown]

Okay, since i am in a foul mood today, and this thread has already nosedived into the gutter, i can take my own unscientific survey. MD this is where i suggest you go out into the lobby for a smoke until my vulgar thoughts blow over A show of hands from all of you out there...

Which disgusting possibility is more true...

Did Brett cock slap more young drunken coeds than hound dog Bill raped and defiled in his prime years?

The answer depends on whether you are a democrat or a republican.

I hope you did not read this MD. i know you are shaking your life long republican head thinking what the heck is wrong with this guy.

How many of you college frat boys have your own disgusting immoral skeletons in your closets from your college days??

i bet quite a few more than will ever admit to their own debaucheries from their college days. You were all a bunch of angels I am sure.

no worries, Cradle.
Clinton way worse, no question. I was clear about which bucket Clinton is in, IMO.
But hey, I'm an R so that doesn't prove anything.

No pass for Kav, though. None of what he's been accused of is ok.
I was in a rowdy frat at a rowdy school and certainly didn't do any of that...but then again I had a steady girlfriend from freshman week on, which probably kept me out of trouble. Certainly heard stories of some pretty darn bad behavior.

Where Kav somewhat redeems himself in my estimation, from whatever drunken awful behaviors of earlier, is his apparently good behavior with women through the latter half of his adult life. It could well be that he recognized he'd done wrong and was determined to clean it up.

Where he lost me, if I'm correct about that realization, was that he lies about it now. He could have said that he drank way too much as a kid and therefore doesn't know for sure if he made mistakes, sure as heck hopes not, but he can't rule it out, and is certainly is sorry for any pain he ever caused.

That would have been worthy of applause. The indignation turned me off big time.

Jfc. So what you’re saying is you believe all the bs thrown at him by partisan hacks? Literally everything said negatively about him WHILE HE WAS IN COLLEGE has been disproven. Stop with the shaded partisan excuses in saying what you want to say.

Has anyone ever accused you of something you didn’t do? I’d be curious how you’d handle it.

[runrussellrun]

Okay, since i am in a foul mood today, and this thread has already nosedived into the gutter, i can take my own unscientific survey. MD this is where i suggest you go out into the lobby for a smoke until my vulgar thoughts blow over A show of hands from all of you out there...

Which disgusting possibility is more true...

Did Brett cock slap more young drunken coeds than hound dog Bill raped and defiled in his prime years?

The answer depends on whether you are a democrat or a republican.

I hope you did not read this MD. i know you are shaking your life long republican head thinking what the heck is wrong with this guy.

How many of you college frat boys have your own disgusting immoral skeletons in your closets from your college days??

i bet quite a few more than will ever admit to their own debaucheries from their college days. You were all a bunch of angels I am sure.

no worries, Cradle.
Clinton way worse, no question. I was clear about which bucket Clinton is in, IMO.
But hey, I'm an R so that doesn't prove anything.

No pass for Kav, though. None of what he's been accused of is ok.
I was in a rowdy frat at a rowdy school and certainly didn't do any of that...but then again I had a steady girlfriend from freshman week on, which probably kept me out of trouble. Certainly heard stories of some pretty darn bad behavior.

Where Kav somewhat redeems himself in my estimation, from whatever drunken awful behaviors of earlier, is his apparently good behavior with women through the latter half of his adult life. It could well be that he recognized he'd done wrong and was determined to clean it up.

Where he lost me, if I'm correct about that realization, was that he lies about it now. He could have said that he drank way too much as a kid and therefore doesn't know for sure if he made mistakes, sure as heck hopes not, but he can't rule it out, and is certainly is sorry for any pain he ever caused.

That would have been worthy of applause. The indignation turned me off big time.

When you write, "didn't do any of that", are you referring to just yourself ? You never witnessed sexual harassment while at Dartmouth? Only "heard" about it? Friends with anyone your "heard" about

Dartmouth "rowdy".....thanks for the laugh.

[MDlaxfan76]

Okay, since i am in a foul mood today, and this thread has already nosedived into the gutter, i can take my own unscientific survey. MD this is where i suggest you go out into the lobby for a smoke until my vulgar thoughts blow over A show of hands from all of you out there...

Which disgusting possibility is more true...

Did Brett cock slap more young drunken coeds than hound dog Bill raped and defiled in his prime years?

The answer depends on whether you are a democrat or a republican.

I hope you did not read this MD. i know you are shaking your life long republican head thinking what the heck is wrong with this guy.

How many of you college frat boys have your own disgusting immoral skeletons in your closets from your college days??

i bet quite a few more than will ever admit to their own debaucheries from their college days. You were all a bunch of angels I am sure.

no worries, Cradle.
Clinton way worse, no question. I was clear about which bucket Clinton is in, IMO.
But hey, I'm an R so that doesn't prove anything.

No pass for Kav, though. None of what he's been accused of is ok.
I was in a rowdy frat at a rowdy school and certainly didn't do any of that...but then again I had a steady girlfriend from freshman week on, which probably kept me out of trouble. Certainly heard stories of some pretty darn bad behavior.

Where Kav somewhat redeems himself in my estimation, from whatever drunken awful behaviors of earlier, is his apparently good behavior with women through the latter half of his adult life. It could well be that he recognized he'd done wrong and was determined to clean it up.

Where he lost me, if I'm correct about that realization, was that he lies about it now. He could have said that he drank way too much as a kid and therefore doesn't know for sure if he made mistakes, sure as heck hopes not, but he can't rule it out, and is certainly is sorry for any pain he ever caused.

That would have been worthy of applause. The indignation turned me off big time.

Jfc. So what you’re saying is you believe all the bs thrown at him by partisan hacks? Literally everything said negatively about him WHILE HE WAS IN COLLEGE has been disproven. Stop with the shaded partisan excuses in saying what you want to say.

Has anyone ever accused you of something you didn’t do? I’d be curious how you’d handle it.

yes, PB, I think he did some stupid things when drunk in high school and in college. Do I think he intentionally planned and executed a rape of Ford? No, I very much doubt he did. Not that there aren't jerks who do such, but I think it's far more likely that he was a bad drunk.

And to his credit, he appears to have cleaned up his act later on.

Serial abusers tend not to do so, right?
And I think that matters.

Is there a chance that he didn't do anything at all wrong? Sure, it's possible.
I just know too much about how guys in that era were acting, especially when drunk, to think that's the probability in this case.

but you're free to think otherwise.

[MDlaxfan76]

Okay, since i am in a foul mood today, and this thread has already nosedived into the gutter, i can take my own unscientific survey. MD this is where i suggest you go out into the lobby for a smoke until my vulgar thoughts blow over A show of hands from all of you out there...

Which disgusting possibility is more true...

Did Brett cock slap more young drunken coeds than hound dog Bill raped and defiled in his prime years?

The answer depends on whether you are a democrat or a republican.

I hope you did not read this MD. i know you are shaking your life long republican head thinking what the heck is wrong with this guy.

How many of you college frat boys have your own disgusting immoral skeletons in your closets from your college days??

i bet quite a few more than will ever admit to their own debaucheries from their college days. You were all a bunch of angels I am sure.

no worries, Cradle.
Clinton way worse, no question. I was clear about which bucket Clinton is in, IMO.
But hey, I'm an R so that doesn't prove anything.

No pass for Kav, though. None of what he's been accused of is ok.
I was in a rowdy frat at a rowdy school and certainly didn't do any of that...but then again I had a steady girlfriend from freshman week on, which probably kept me out of trouble. Certainly heard stories of some pretty darn bad behavior.

Where Kav somewhat redeems himself in my estimation, from whatever drunken awful behaviors of earlier, is his apparently good behavior with women through the latter half of his adult life. It could well be that he recognized he'd done wrong and was determined to clean it up.

Where he lost me, if I'm correct about that realization, was that he lies about it now. He could have said that he drank way too much as a kid and therefore doesn't know for sure if he made mistakes, sure as heck hopes not, but he can't rule it out, and is certainly is sorry for any pain he ever caused.

That would have been worthy of applause. The indignation turned me off big time.

When you write, "didn't do any of that", are you referring to just yourself ? You never witnessed sexual harassment while at Dartmouth? Only "heard" about it? Friends with anyone your "heard" about

Dartmouth "rowdy".....thanks for the laugh.

Yes, "rowdy" does deserve to be in quotes.
Yes, Dartmouth was very sexist, lots of both mild and highly overt harassment.
I heard some really awful stories, though never witnessed the worst...but then I wasn't hanging out on the second floor with bedrooms.

I've written at some length about that era at Dartmouth in this context of attitudes towards women.
We entered 4 years after coeducation, our class 3:1 guys to gals. Higher ratio in classes before us.

[runrussellrun]

I asked if you were friends with any of the guys you heard stories about? Be honest. Not one of them? None at your wedding? Up at Squam ?

[njbill]

Squam? One of my favorite places on the planet.

[njbill]

At the risk of going down the Pete Brown rabbit hole, I thought I would post my serious thoughts on the new Reade allegations against Biden.

In my view, the appropriate approach for addressing sexual misconduct allegations is that every person’s allegation should be given serious consideration while at the same time the accused’s right to a fair review of the matter needs to be respected.

Comparisons between Ford and Reade really aren’t that helpful to assessing Reade’s case. Each case has to rise or fall on its own facts and merits based on an analysis of the evidence that is able to be gathered.

Here’s what we know so far about Reade and her recent allegation (based on numerous articles easily locatable on a Google search):

1. She claims the incident occurred in 1993 when she was in her 20s and working for Biden. The time lag, in and of itself, is not dispositive (many old accusations of sexual abuse may well be true), but it is one factor to take into account. I’d only give it a little bit of weight, however.

2. Reade was fired by Biden’s office. So she’s biased. Now, someone who is biased can still be telling the truth, but to me this is not an insignificant factor. Being fired is a classic example of bias.

3. Reade never brought this up during Joe’s Senate, VP, and presidential runs. Why not? Again, not dispositive, but not irrelevant. Entitled to some weight, I think.

4. Last April, Reade joined the club of alleged Biden “hair sniffing, etc.” victims, saying something like that happened to her (various reports say she says he sniffed her hair, kissed the back of her head, and/or rubbed his finger up and down her neck). This was after Joe announced for president. Why didn’t she make her digital penetration allegation last year? That seems very odd to me. Suspicious? To me, yes. Not dispositive, but entitled to some weight. Now, I agree the hair sniffing and finger rubs were very strange, very likely inappropriate in many, if not all, instances, even bizarre. The appropriateness of shoulder rubs is a grayer area, I think. Depends of the circumstances, but certainly some (a lot?) could have been inappropriate. But this stuff is a far, far cry from digital penetration. I think we can all agree on that.

5. Reade says she told her mother, brother, and a friend “at the time,” presumably meaning shortly after the alleged 1993 incident occurred. To me it is credible that she would tell her mother and a friend about something like this. Less so her brother (but certainly possible). I can’t imagine my sister ever telling me something like that. She would have been way too embarrassed. Our mom, a friend? Yes. Reade’s mother has passed away. The friend says she discouraged Reade from coming forward because she did not believe she would see justice. What did she say to the friend? Her brother says her mother told her to go to the police. What, exactly, did Reade tell her mother? How does the brother know about the conversation? (Obviously there are logical explanations, but what are they?) Her brother said he had urged his sister to move past it, telling her "let it go" and "move on" because "guys are idiots." Arguably that suggests the brother didn’t think what happened was all that serious. What did Reade tell her brother? The brother and friend are biased, but that doesn’t mean they are not telling the truth. Will they agree to be interviewed, ideally on camera? Obviously, the devil is in the details on this point which could really help or really hurt Reade’s case. By far the most serious piece of this is that the mother alleged told Reade to go to the police. One would think she wouldn’t have said that if all her daughter said was that Biden tried to kiss her or something along those lines. So, then, the brother’s credibility on what Reade said to their mother and what mother said to daughter, and how he knows all this, is critical. His possible bias needs to be examined with a very critical eye. If the brother’s account credibly includes the above, plus the digital penetration detail, that would be very damaging to Joe.

6. Reade claims she went through official channels at the time to report sexual harassment in the workplace. Not clear whether the report was written or oral, or both, or what the report said. If written, does a copy still exist? Not clear to whom the report was allegedly given. If she did file a report, it is critical to know what it said. If the report lacked any mention of digital penetration or serious sexual assault, that would really hurt Reade’s position. Not kill it, but severely wound it. It may be that the evidence of such a report will remain inconclusive. Maybe it was only oral. Maybe a copy doesn’t exist. This is another factor where it is critical to know precisely what the evidence is. This one could swing heavily one way or the other, or (perhaps more likely) will remain uncertain due to insufficient evidence.

7. Biden’s executive assistant from 1982-2000 says she never heard reports of inappropriate conduct during the time she worked for Biden. She claims a report like this is something she would definitely remember. Not sure what she is doing now or if she has any current role with Joe. If she isn’t currently connected to him, that helps her credibility more than if she were still working for him. Yes, she could still be loyal to him, which could support a bias argument. And, yes, if she denies knowing about the hair sniffing, etc., that could undercut her credibility. Still, her account is entitled to some weight, though perhaps not a lot.

8. Best I can tell, this is the first serious sexual assault allegation against Joe. To me, that’s a pretty important point. Not dispositive to be sure because one assault is one too many, but it is much easier to believe a Trump accuser given his sordid history. He has done this so many times now that word of yet another incident hardly ripples the news pond anymore. The fact that no one else has apparently accused Joe of sexual assault is entitled to some weight.

9. Reade has not taken a lie detector test (as Ford did and passed). Not required, of course, but it would help her case if she did and passed. Obviously, it would destroy it if she failed. Since Reade, in effect, has the burden of proof in the court of public opinion, the fact that she hasn’t taken and passed a lie detector test prevents her from advancing the “burden” ball. If someone presses her to take a lie detector test, and she refuses, that would be entitled to some weight. If no one asks, I don’t think this factor cuts either way.

10. Reade hasn’t been cross-examined under oath. Very unlikely to happen unless someone files suit, but that means her story may not be tested under the crucible of cross examination. How she would do on cross would likely really help or hurt her case. Again, as with a lie detector test, she won’t have the chance to use a cross exam to help her case. I don’t think this factor cuts either way.

11. Reade was a Warren supporter. She now supports Bernie, and has done so on Twitter where she has also posted disagreements with Biden’s positions. This shows bias which is not unimportant. Maybe somewhat important.

So, sure. Test her case. No doubt Biden has private investigators looking into this now, as you would expect. Let’s see what they dig up. But it seems unlikely we’ll get a conclusive answer either way since there were no eyewitnesses. At the end of the day, the voters will have to make their own judgments based on the evidence that comes out.

Is this now coming from Bernie or Trump, or is this coming solely from Reade? Tea leaves suggest maybe Bernie. Reade acknowledges she is a Bernie supporter. Makes more sense than Trump who you would think would save this for later in the campaign and not spring it in the middle of the coronavirus pandemic which is consuming all of the oxygen in the room.

Biden would be advised to fully address this ASAP, assuming the story truly has not merit. Let it burn out while it will register very low on the publicity meter.

[runrussellrun]

At the risk of going down the Pete Brown rabbit hole, I thought I would post my serious thoughts on the new Reade allegations against Biden.

In my view, the appropriate approach for addressing sexual misconduct allegations is that every person’s allegation should be given serious consideration while at the same time the accused’s right to a fair review of the matter needs to be respected.

Comparisons between Ford and Reade really aren’t that helpful to assessing Reade’s case. Each case has to rise or fall on its own facts and merits based on an analysis of the evidence that is able to be gathered.

Here’s what we know so far about Reade and her recent allegation (based on numerous articles easily locatable on a Google search):

1. She claims the incident occurred in 1993 when she was in her 20s and working for Biden. The time lag, in and of itself, is not dispositive (many old accusations of sexual abuse may well be true), but it is one factor to take into account. I’d only give it a little bit of weight, however. You need to remember members of Congress were literally immune from laws. The abuse even has a still funded payout. So, with that truth, what makes you think she didn't speak up in 1993? Given the climate.
https://www.cnn.com/2017/11/16/politics ... index.html

2. Reade was fired by Biden’s office. So she’s biased. Now, someone who is biased can still be telling the truth, but to me this is not an insignificant factor. Being fired is a classic example of bias. So is being fired for complaining about being groped .

3. Reade never brought this up during Joe’s Senate, VP, and presidential runs. Why not? Again, not dispositive, but not irrelevant. Entitled to some weight, I think. Neither did Dr. Ford. She nevah said a word on his way up......

4. Last April, Reade joined the club of alleged Biden “hair sniffing, etc.” victims, saying something like that happened to her (various reports say she says he sniffed her hair, kissed the back of her head, and/or rubbed his finger up and down her neck). This was after Joe announced for president. Why didn’t she make her digital penetration allegation last year? That seems very odd to me. Suspicious? To me, yes. Not dispositive, but entitled to some weight. Now, I agree the hair sniffing and finger rubs were very strange, very likely inappropriate in many, if not all, instances, even bizarre. The appropriateness of shoulder rubs is a grayer area, I think. Depends of the circumstances, but certainly some (a lot?) could have been inappropriate. But this stuff is a far, far cry from digital penetration. I think we can all agree on that. Huh?

5. Reade says she told her mother, brother, and a friend “at the time,” presumably meaning shortly after the alleged 1993 incident occurred. To me it is credible that she would tell her mother and a friend about something like this. Less so her brother (but certainly possible). I can’t imagine my sister ever telling me something like that. She would have been way too embarrassed. Our mom, a friend? Yes. Reade’s mother has passed away. The friend says she discouraged Reade from coming forward because she did not believe she would see justice. What did she say to the friend? Her brother says her mother told her to go to the police. What, exactly, did Reade tell her mother? How does the brother know about the conversation? (Obviously there are logical explanations, but what are they?) Her brother said he had urged his sister to move past it, telling her "let it go" and "move on" because "guys are idiots." Arguably that suggests the brother didn’t think what happened was all that serious. What did Reade tell her brother? The brother and friend are biased, but that doesn’t mean they are not telling the truth. Will they agree to be interviewed, ideally on camera? Obviously, the devil is in the details on this point which could really help or really hurt Reade’s case. By far the most serious piece of this is that the mother alleged told Reade to go to the police. One would think she wouldn’t have said that if all her daughter said was that Biden tried to kiss her or something along those lines. So, then, the brother’s credibility on what Reade said to their mother and what mother said to daughter, and how he knows all this, is critical. His possible bias needs to be examined with a very critical eye. If the brother’s account credibly includes the above, plus the digital penetration detail, that would be very damaging to Joe. CNN is outside the brothers door, as we type.

6. Reade claims she went through official channels at the time to report sexual harassment in the workplace. Not clear whether the report was written or oral, or both, or what the report said. If written, does a copy still exist? Not clear to whom the report was allegedly given. If she did file a report, it is critical to know what it said. If the report lacked any mention of digital penetration or serious sexual assault, that would really hurt Reade’s position. Not kill it, but severely wound it. It may be that the evidence of such a report will remain inconclusive. Maybe it was only oral. Maybe a copy doesn’t exist. This is another factor where it is critical to know precisely what the evidence is. This one could swing heavily one way or the other, or (perhaps more likely) will remain uncertain due to insufficient evidence. See above......sex assault slush fund. Does Congress have to comply with the same employment laws as you and I?

7. Biden’s executive assistant from 1982-2000 says she never heard reports of inappropriate conduct during the time she worked for Biden. She claims a report like this is something she would definitely remember. Not sure what she is doing now or if she has any current role with Joe. If she isn’t currently connected to him, that helps her credibility more than if she were still working for him. Yes, she could still be loyal to him, which could support a bias argument. And, yes, if she denies knowing about the hair sniffing, etc., that could undercut her credibility. Still, her account is entitled to some weight, though perhaps not a lot. Lots of people nevah heard nothing. Boys scouts, gymnastics, wrestling, godless god types, etc.

8. Best I can tell, this is the first serious sexual assault allegation against Joe. To me, that’s a pretty important point. Not dispositive to be sure because one assault is one too many, but it is much easier to believe a Trump accuser given his sordid history. He has done this so many times now that word of yet another incident hardly ripples the news pond anymore. The fact that no one else has apparently accused Joe of sexual assault is entitled to some weight. It was also the first allegation against Weinstein, Epstein, .......point is, Joe Biden said "believe all woman". Is Joe NOT to be trusted, now.

9. Reade has not taken a lie detector test (as Ford did and passed). Not required, of course, but it would help her case if she did and passed. Obviously, it would destroy it if she failed. Since Reade, in effect, has the burden of proof in the court of public opinion, the fact that she hasn’t taken and passed a lie detector test prevents her from advancing the “burden” ball. If someone presses her to take a lie detector test, and she refuses, that would be entitled to some weight. If no one asks, I don’t think this factor cuts either way. this is funny. Lie detector. wow.

10. Reade hasn’t been cross-examined under oath. Very unlikely to happen unless someone files suit, but that means her story may not be tested under the crucible of cross examination. How she would do on cross would likely really help or hurt her case. Again, as with a lie detector test, she won’t have the chance to use a cross exam to help her case. I don’t think this factor cuts either way.

11. Reade was a Warren supporter. She now supports Bernie, and has done so on Twitter where she has also posted disagreements with Biden’s positions. This shows bias which is not unimportant. Maybe somewhat important. Pathetic. She was assaulted by him, allegadely. wtheck would she support him. She remains a Democrat, is THAT not unimportant. what a DNC sheeple.

So, sure. Test her case. No doubt Biden has private investigators looking into this now, as you would expect. Who is paying for that? Legitimate campaign expense? Let’s see what they dig up. But it seems unlikely we’ll get a conclusive answer either way since there were no eyewitnesses. At the end of the day, the voters will have to make their own judgments based on the evidence that comes out.

Is this now coming from Bernie or Trump, or is this coming solely from Reade? Tea leaves suggest maybe Bernie. Reade acknowledges she is a Bernie supporter. Makes more sense than Trump who you would think would save this for later in the campaign and not spring it in the middle of the coronavirus pandemic which is consuming all of the oxygen in the room.

Biden would be advised to fully address this ASAP, assuming the story truly has not merit. Let it burn out while it will register very low on the publicity meter.

Biden could explain why Reade was fired. Shirley, he had performance reviews, warnings, etc. Oh.....wait......TAATS aren't us.

[MDlaxfan76]

I asked if you were friends with any of the guys you heard stories about? Be honest. Not one of them? None at your wedding? Up at Squam ?

Wedding was in Woods Hole where my wife is from. Daughter of a commercial fisherman and school nurse.
We did it at the oldest Episcopal church in Massachusetts, party across street at small parish hall over looking the water...wedding party in full tuxes ended up in the ocean.

We've been going to Squam for 40 years...beautiful place. I'd been a camper for a couple of years at Deerwood. Parents started renting when I went to college.

No, none of my close buddies were involved in any abuses with women, certainly not that I knew of. They wouldn't have been my buddies.

Plenty of misogyny all around us though.

I did have a senior when I was freshman on my lax team who told a story about 'pulling a train' in high school...I had no idea what that even meant, horrified.

I've told the story of being with my future wife in the basement of my fraternity, Beta, late one winter eve after a hockey game, junior year. We had a handful of hockey players in the frat, and the opposing team had come for a party. My girlfriend said we needed to leave, I'm being pinched. We were having fun, or so I thought, so I dragged my feet. She then said, I'm leaving... and started walking up the stairs. I trailed a few steps back. Darn if a guy right in front of me reached up a pinched her on the butt as she passed on the stairs. She turned and with a full swing back of the hand whopped him. He reared back with a fist, I grabbed his arm and we rolled down the stairs into the muck of melted snow and beer, and ten of his U Maine team mates piled on taking swings at me. I was a wrestler so I had some legs and kept my head in close and got my own fair number of shots in. My frats brothers behind the bar couldn't see who was on the bottom of the pile, but finally some of the Dartmouth hockey players pulled the pile apart. My wife says that wasn't 'harassment' but it wasn't exactly benign either.

She was no shrinking violet, valedictorian, Jr Miss of Mass, played 2 sports, town band, jazz band, started the 2nd sorority at D, Kappa Kappa Gamma, was its 2nd President, chosen for the second class of secret women's senior society, admitted to Harvard Business School (conditional on 2 years working), Bain etc.

But yeah, it was pretty sexist place in our early years. Guys would gather outside the women's dorms and sing "Co-Hog" songs. Most freshmen went on the Freshman Trips (I was working to make a few more bucks so missed). On the trip guys were told that if they dated a Dartmouth 'girl' they wouldn't be admitted to the more prominent frats. I didn't get told and met my future wife freshmen week. Friends were upset, 'oh no, you won't be able to join a frat with us'...sure enough I was rejected that first year...the next year, 'we need the dues' and 'she's ok'...

Between lax and her I spent less time at the frat than probably most. Made some good friends, though I spent much more time with my lax buddies, several of whom overlapped. I did hang with a bunch of her women friends, often the only guy, so certainly learned the women's perspective on being there.

[MDlaxfan76]

Squam? One of my favorite places on the planet.

Me too, all things ok, my wife and I will be there first two weeks of August.
Harvard Point side.

[runrussellrun]

After doing a trail run at the Haunnaukaum, the famed downhill course in Kitzbuhl, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hq_wxQiJxz0 I too met a Miss "something". Her name was lola. She also was a skier. (slalom tho )
I think the bar was called "SoHo", named after the hipster blocks in Manhatten, no doubt. Anyway, we drank champaign and danced to the electronic music. All night. I do remember Propaganda, Trio, .....and the crowd liked my pick of President Gas (Reagan was still in the office of White ) Anyway, after she was sitting on my knee, her broken english saying, " little man, why don't you come home with me".

Under the electric candlelight on the cobblestone streets, outside a strange British bar, (seemed out of place ) I looked at her, and she at me. Absolutely stunning. Claudia Schiffer like body, better face. Not a butter face. You can probably guess, but I am not the worlds most passionate guy, but when I looked in her eyes, boy did I fall for Lola. Maybe she was Miss Morovia. Similar to Massachusettes, for sure.

Like I was saying, I almost fell for her, and her beauty. Had I not noticed what I noticed, I may not have gently pushed her away. Walked to the door. I looked at her, she at me. Herpes. like this woman in this interesting video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LduipA_XUJ8

I know, right. It's a mixed up, muddled up , shook up world. Well, that's the way I want it to stay. I used to be facebook friends with LoLa. Think she goes by Lou now.

[MDlaxfan76]

After doing a trail run at the Haunnaukaum, the famed downhill course in Kitzbuhl, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hq_wxQiJxz0 I too met a Miss "something". Her name was lola. She also was a skier. (slalom tho )
I think the bar was called "SoHo", named after the hipster blocks in Manhatten, no doubt. Anyway, we drank champaign and danced to the electronic music. All night. I do remember Propaganda, Trio, .....and the crowd liked my pick of President Gas (Reagan was still in the office of White ) Anyway, after she was sitting on my knee, her broken english saying, " little man, why don't you come home with me".

Under the electric candlelight on the cobblestone streets, outside a strange British bar, (seemed out of place ) I looked at her, and she at me. Absolutely stunning. Claudia Schiffer like body, better face. Not a butter face. You can probably guess, but I am not the worlds most passionate guy, but when I looked in her eyes, boy did I fall for Lola. Maybe she was Miss Morovia. Similar to Massachusettes, for sure.

Like I was saying, I almost fell for her, and her beauty. Had I not noticed what I noticed, I may not have gently pushed her away. Walked to the door. I looked at her, she at me. Herpes. like this woman in this interesting video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LduipA_XUJ8

I know, right. It's a mixed up, muddled up , shook up world. Well, that's the way I want it to stay. I used to be facebook friends with LoLa. Think she goes by Lou now.

Great song too!

[njbill]

Squam? One of my favorite places on the planet.

Me too, all things ok, my wife and I will be there first two weeks of August.
Harvard Point side.

I first went to Squam in 1989 so you have me beat by 10 years. My parents, then my sister have rented up there pretty much every year since. I’ve gone up to visit close to 25 of those years and steal as many days as I can. She rents the house on Center Harbor Neck where On Golden Pond was shot. Great property. A peninsula with I think 1500 feet of frontage. Sun from dawn til dusk. Great sunsets. Hope to get up there this summer as well, though I am dependent on which weeks my sister rents.

[Peter Brown]

Is there a chance that he didn't do anything at all wrong? Sure, it's possible.
I just know too much about how guys in that era were acting, especially when drunk, to think that's the probability in this case.

This reply is fascinating.

So it's "possible" that Kavanaugh did nothing, but at the same time you say he's unfit to be a SCOTUS judge? How do you begin to square the two thoughts? Outside of your being inconsistent, of course.

[MDlaxfan76]

Is there a chance that he didn't do anything at all wrong? Sure, it's possible.
I just know too much about how guys in that era were acting, especially when drunk, to think that's the probability in this case.

This reply is fascinating.

So it's "possible" that Kavanaugh did nothing, but at the same time you say he's unfit to be a SCOTUS judge? How do you begin to square the two thoughts? Outside of your being inconsistent, of course.

It's my opinion, PB.
I think he's lying now. And that's what disqualifies him.
I could be wrong, but I don't think so.
Why? Because when you're as drunk as he reportedly was, often, you have little clear recollection of your actions. Definitely not with the certainty he said he has.
But it wouldn't be hard to say that you just don't remember 100% and are horrified if your actions in any way caused pain...the adamant 100% denial is just not very plausible.
Again, that's my read...you're free to have a different one.

[MDlaxfan76]

Squam? One of my favorite places on the planet.

Me too, all things ok, my wife and I will be there first two weeks of August.
Harvard Point side.

I first went to Squam in 1989 so you have me beat by 10 years. My parents, then my sister have rented up there pretty much every year since. I’ve gone up to visit close to 25 of those years and steal as many days as I can. She rents the house on Center Harbor Neck where On Golden Pond was shot. Great property. A peninsula with I think 1500 feet of frontage. Sun from dawn til dusk. Great sunsets. Hope to get up there this summer as well, though I am dependent on which weeks my sister rents.