All things CoronaVirus

[ChairmanOfTheBoard]

put simply- which is it, is he in control here or not. thanks in advance for thoughts. i appreciate that there is nuance between these two concepts and that they are not necessarily mutually exclusive. just asking.

For the stuff that the Feds can impact, I think the deep state and Congress are fully woke and running the show. At this point, I don't see Trump having any real impact. Whatever potential authority and influence he had has been forfeited. Who really thinks they'll be sitting in Easter services in two weeks? What hedge funder is trading based on what Trump or Hannity says?

I think Trump can be blamed for not sounding the alarm earlier and louder. But I don't think he makes much difference now that facts/reality have blown past his BS and happy talk.

I don't see him doing much other than talking to his base and trying to message for his re-election campaign. Pretty much like he always does.

Said another way, he didn't lead or follow. So everyone else is pushing him out of the way.

thanks- i appreciate the response. agreed that his fumble was sounding the alarm. 24 days versus 8 overseas. when we had the benefit of watching them putt first.

[MDlaxfan76]

put simply- which is it, is he in control here or not. thanks in advance for thoughts. i appreciate that there is nuance between these two concepts and that they are not necessarily mutually exclusive. just asking.

For the stuff that the Feds can impact, I think the deep state and Congress are fully woke and running the show. At this point, I don't see Trump having any real impact. Whatever potential authority and influence he had has been forfeited. Who really thinks they'll be sitting in Easter services in two weeks? What hedge funder is trading based on what Trump or Hannity says?

I think Trump can be blamed for not sounding the alarm earlier and louder. But I don't think he makes much difference now that facts/reality have blown past his BS and happy talk.

I don't see him doing much other than talking to his base and trying to message for his re-election campaign. Pretty much like he always does.

I wish you were right about this ggait.

And certainly many of us will ignore Trump.

But sadly there remain a whole lot of people who will make unfortunate decisions over these next weeks.

His base does matter because they put everyone at risk.

I do agree that this will grow increasingly hard for the base to ignore as the contagion spreads further and further, but a lot of damage is happening even now.

A note of positive, I was pleased to watch Jerry Falwell Jr of Liberty University sound sane this AM. He's letting students come back to the dorms, though they needn't do so and they're doing all classes online, apparently. Social distancing, just not telling the kids they have to go home. They're allowed to be on campus. Time will tell whether that was a mistake, but it wasn't like the rather insane church leader 'laying hands' on his flock. Falwell said churches should do services online, no hesitation at all.

[MDlaxfan76]

put simply- which is it, is he in control here or not. thanks in advance for thoughts. i appreciate that there is nuance between these two concepts and that they are not necessarily mutually exclusive. just asking.

For the stuff that the Feds can impact, I think the deep state and Congress are fully woke and running the show. At this point, I don't see Trump having any real impact. Whatever potential authority and influence he had has been forfeited. Who really thinks they'll be sitting in Easter services in two weeks? What hedge funder is trading based on what Trump or Hannity says?

I think Trump can be blamed for not sounding the alarm earlier and louder. But I don't think he makes much difference now that facts/reality have blown past his BS and happy talk.

I don't see him doing much other than talking to his base and trying to message for his re-election campaign. Pretty much like he always does.

Said another way, he didn't lead or follow. So everyone else is pushing him out of the way.

thanks- i appreciate the response. agreed that his fumble was sounding the alarm. 24 days versus 8 overseas. when we had the benefit of watching them putt first.

good analogy.

[seacoaster]

put simply- which is it, is he in control here or not. thanks in advance for thoughts. i appreciate that there is nuance between these two concepts and that they are not necessarily mutually exclusive. just asking.

For the stuff that the Feds can impact, I think the deep state and Congress are fully woke and running the show. At this point, I don't see Trump having any real impact. Whatever potential authority and influence he had has been forfeited. Who really thinks they'll be sitting in Easter services in two weeks? What hedge funder is trading based on what Trump or Hannity says?

I think Trump can be blamed for not sounding the alarm earlier and louder. But I don't think he makes much difference now that facts/reality have blown past his BS and happy talk.

I don't see him doing much other than talking to his base and trying to message for his re-election campaign. Pretty much like he always does.

Said another way, he didn't lead or follow. So everyone else is pushing him out of the way.

thanks- i appreciate the response. agreed that his fumble was sounding the alarm. 24 days versus 8 overseas. when we had the benefit of watching them putt first.

Post article that, I think, tries to address some of the Chairman's questions:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... back-work/

"President Trump is increasingly making clear he wants to do what public health officials and a number of governors and mayors say is a bad idea: let people go back to work and gather in large crowds in the next few weeks.

Public health officials warn that the coronavirus is still rampaging — the World Health Organization says the United States could be its next epicenter — and that to relax social distancing now will overwhelm hospitals even more than they already are with the sick and dying.

Trump says he’s worried that the economic toll and its effects will be more devastating than the disease: “We can’t let the cure be worse than the disease.”

Trump is the most powerful figure in the U.S. coronavirus response, and a large swath of the country supports him and will stand by him no matter what. And his voice certainly will play a role in how seriously all Americans treat social distancing, since it’s difficult.

But he alone can’t push Americans back to work and restart the economy. That’s for three reasons:

1. Governors are the ones ordering people to stay at home. Already, 19 have ordered or announced that they’re about to order residents to stay at home, according to the nonpartisan National Governors Association. (See which states here.) Even Republican governors, like Greg Abbott in Texas, aren’t inclined to open up their economies now. “If the goal is to get the economy going, the best thing we can do to get the economy going is to get covid-19 behind us,” he said.

Trump doesn’t have the authority to make these governors do anything differently. As University of California at Davis law professor Elizabeth Joh wrote for Politico Magazine last week, the Supreme Court has long established precedent that states have the right to control their economies in the name of public health: “A community has the right to protect itself against an epidemic of disease which threatens the safety of its members,” she says the court wrote in 1905. “There is no ‘Go Back To Work Law,’” she tweeted on Tuesday.

States are bolstered by the 10th Amendment of the Constitution, which grants them “police power” to protect the health and safety of their residents. That means states can “establish and enforce laws protecting the welfare, safety, and health of the public,” separate from the federal government, according to Cornell Law School.

Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan (R), who chairs the National Governors Association, on CNN on Monday resisted the idea of opening up his state’s economy anytime soon, saying: “We’re just trying to take the best advice we can from the scientists and all of the experts and making the decisions that we believe are necessary for our states. We don’t think that we’re going to be in any way ready to be out of this in five or six days or so.”

2. In many states, schools are closed. So are day-care centers and shops. So even if people want to get back to work, a lot wouldn’t be able to. Parents wouldn’t have child care, and governors in a number of states have ordered nonessential businesses closed, so workers in, say, a boutique wouldn’t be able to go back to work.

3. Trump’s request that people avoid groups of more than 10 was just that — a request. He made the social distancing request at the advice of health experts for a 15-day period, which ends March 30. But this was never a rule or law, just a set of guidelines.

Relaxing it will almost certainly lead to more people gathering in open spaces, perhaps in churches or bars and restaurants and beaches. If the president of the United States is okay with larger gatherings, why should they avoid them? But in a growing number of states, that will put them in direct conflict with local officials who urge them not to crowd.

Some are even policing it: Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) is going to require anyone coming into the state from New York or New Jersey to be quarantined for 14 days (to avoid the New York-to-Florida virus pipeline). New York Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo (D) has directed his city to find a way to stop people from gathering in parks. Under the 10th Amendment, they can do that regardless of what Trump says.

In short, Trump’s guidance to America and how seriously he treats social distancing will certainly have an effect. But science and governors are moving in the opposite direction: more, not less, closing up."

[Matnum PI]

Be specific. Define one problem, and what to do to solve it?

Numerous hospitals are already at full capacity. We knew this was going to happen a while ago. With social media, there's no excuse. We saw it with our own eyes. We saw it in Italy. It was (and may still be) like a war triage unit. Letting people die because another body has a better chance of surviving. i.e. there are so many bodies and so few beds that doctors are forced to choose who will get treatment. Obviously, this was something we wanted to avoid. So having the National Guard or otherwise build make-shift hospitals before we need the beds, for example, in Central Park, would help enormously. Getting personnel, getting facilities, getting equipment. ASAP. Yesterday. Treating this virus with the urgency it deserves.

[old salt]

Any company that wants to keep their employees and pay their bills. And will pay it back

Right. So if you're a small business, and have no assets, as is the case with most restaurants.....how do you get that loan?

You can't get it. Know how I know this? I have restaurant owner friends------big ones-----who have applied. And even if you can somehow get the money, now you're in massive debt when you were just fine a few weeks ago.

And you're going to open your business in the worst recession we have ever seen.

Sense the problem now?

PB --- you can bring back or start up an airline, just as if it were a restaurant.
It's not like we need air transportation anyway.
You're making this so complicated.

You're being intentionally obtuse, and looking to pick a fight where there isn't one. I'm not saying don't help the airlines.

I'm saying it's ridiculous to help the airlines with a line item bailout, while at the same time, NOT help restaurants in any meaningful way. I've been advocating this entire time to help EVERYONE.

Both you and PB agree with this. Stop acting like you don't.

Then wait & see what form the airline relief takes before getting all worked up.
It might just be no interest loans.
We can save the airlines. We can't save all the restaurants (look at their failure rates in normal times).
Many will start over & come back, if they don't make it.
Waiters & busboys can stock grocery shelves.
Airline staff take longer to regenerate.

Great. Doesn't change my position. I'm saying it's ridiculous to help the airlines with a line item bailout, while at the same time, NOT help restaurants in any meaningful way. I've been advocating this entire time to help EVERYONE.

OK. They're preserving the airline industry with a line item grant & loans, in return for no layoffs thru Aug 31.
That preserves a critical transportation network, poised for immediate return to service. They're doing the same for passenger rail.
The airlines funnel the grant money to their employees via continued payroll. Oversight/audit will be feasible.
No new distribution channel. There's no analogous way to get money directly to restaurant workers & many other service industry employees.
Their industries are too dispersed for that.

[old salt]

Doctors behaving badly.

Good. We need med providers to survive to treat the ill.

[runrussellrun]

Public health officials warn that the coronavirus is still rampaging — the World Health Organization says the United States could be its next epicenter — and that to relax social distancing now will overwhelm hospitals even more than they already are with the sick and dying.

What date did WHO recommend that the US close overseas travel? You clearly respect them, so when?

(On Jan. 22, WHO was recommending NOT to suspend air travel ) So, when?

Otherwise, this is just a silly attempt to blame ONE politician. It's not helping anyone.

[Matnum PI]

Post article that, I think, tries to address some of the Chairman's questions

sea, a good piece and i agree with the substance. with this said, and I know that I'm stating the obvious but... It'd be a big help if, during this crisis, he was to lead the country instead of leading his 2020 reelection campaign.

[a fan]

OK. They're preserving the airline industry with a line item grant & loans, in return for no layoffs thru Aug 31.
That preserves a critical transportation network, poised for immediate return to service. They're doing the same for passenger rail.
The airlines funnel the grant money to their employees via continued payroll. Oversight/audit will be feasible.
No new distribution channel. There's no analogous way to get money directly to restaurant workers & many other service industry employees.

Sure there is. The SBA.

And I'll get back to you on that after we talk with our bank. I believe they have the same type of grant money that's set up via the SBA directed to all small businesses. Will revert.

[runrussellrun]

Be specific. Define one problem, and what to do to solve it?

Numerous hospitals are already at full capacity. In the USA? Where? We knew this was going to happen a while ago. BE SPECIFIC. WHEN ago did we learn? With social media, there's no excuse. RU serious with this? We saw it with our own eyes. We saw it in Italy. It was (and may still be) like a war triage unit. Letting people die because another body has a better chance of surviving. i.e. there are so many bodies and so few beds that doctors are forced to choose who will get treatment. Obviously, this was something we wanted to avoid. So having the National Guard or otherwise build make-shift hospitals before we need the beds, for example, in Central Park, would help enormously. Getting personnel, getting facilities, getting equipment. ASAP. Yesterday. Treating this virus with the urgency it deserves.

None of what you posted defined a problem that can be placed at the foot of any single politician. It's not helping solve much.

. NG is setting up hospitals. Hasn't this already happened? Aren't the Navy boats in NY harbor, today?

Why you are not blaming the professionals with the degrees AND the funds.....for dropping the ball. They even had a "mock" run in October with this very virus. What advice our our politicians NOT following from this exercise?

[runrussellrun]

On Feb. 29, WHO was recommending THIS. Why aren't the adults blaming the adults?

https://www.who.int/news-room/articles- ... 9-outbreak

Recommendations for international trafic
WHO continues to advise against the application of travel or trade restrictions to countries experiencing COVID-19 outbreaks.

In general, evidence shows that restricting the movement of people and goods during public health emergencies is ineffective in most situations and may divert resources from other interventions. Furthermore, restrictions may interrupt needed aid and technical support, may disrupt businesses, and may have negative social and economic effects on the affected countries. However, in certain circumstances, measures that restrict the movement of people may prove temporarily useful, such as in settings with few international connections and limited response capacities.

[MDlaxfan76]

RR, is your only point that Trump isn't the only one who fouled up, at any point?

Is ANYONE arguing with you?

If no one is arguing otherwise, why keep belaboring it?...unless your real intent is to provide cover for Trump?

Trump is fouling up in real time and he's the only POTUS we have...thus, eyes on him.

[seacoaster]

Post article that, I think, tries to address some of the Chairman's questions

sea, a good piece and i agree with the substance. with this said, and I know that I'm stating the obvious but... It'd be a big help if, during this crisis, he was to lead the country instead of leading his 2020 reelection campaign.

And I'm stating the obvious by suggesting that it is literally, psychically, impossible for the President to do that. He cannot help himself. His Obama-fetish alone makes this impossible.

[old salt]

what is wrong with Biden?

Saw this yesterday and I didn't find it so indecipherable. Very similar to Nancy's, I don't cares. he, like so many others, is speaking to the importance of isolating and he's frustrated that others, especially the POTUS, doesn't understand this. The Twitter video is purposely edited to not make sense.

It wasn't edited; it was clipped. There is a big difference.

That being said, he has periods of lucidity, then his mind obviously goes off the rails. It's not defaulting today, but there is no way you can convince me this guy will be able to hang in there four years. He is definitely declining here.

PB, I've been watching this guy for decades, never been a fan, and he long ago earned a rep for being a gaffe machine. It was only recently that we learned why, the same brain mechanism that caused his childhood stuttering, which he's almost entirely overcome. The remaining bits are the occasional misplacement of words.

No one who isn't out to smear him doesn't agree with this.

That said, I do think his age shows.
But please, let's not kid ourselves about Biden's challenges being anywhere near as bad Trump's mental deficiencies, well documented.

I get why the hard right wants to play up Biden's issues: because they know, deep in their bones, that it's a YUGE issue for their candidate... but it really isn't anywhere near the same magnitude.

In a binary choice on this dimension alone it's not a close call.

I'm waiting his choice of VP. if he chooses Kamala, I am out.

As for Trump, I sure wish he'd replace Pence with Hailey.

Jeh Johnson for Biden's VP. ....will never happen, but hope springs eternal.

[seacoaster]

what is wrong with Biden?

Saw this yesterday and I didn't find it so indecipherable. Very similar to Nancy's, I don't cares. he, like so many others, is speaking to the importance of isolating and he's frustrated that others, especially the POTUS, doesn't understand this. The Twitter video is purposely edited to not make sense.

It wasn't edited; it was clipped. There is a big difference.

That being said, he has periods of lucidity, then his mind obviously goes off the rails. It's not defaulting today, but there is no way you can convince me this guy will be able to hang in there four years. He is definitely declining here.

PB, I've been watching this guy for decades, never been a fan, and he long ago earned a rep for being a gaffe machine. It was only recently that we learned why, the same brain mechanism that caused his childhood stuttering, which he's almost entirely overcome. The remaining bits are the occasional misplacement of words.

No one who isn't out to smear him doesn't agree with this.

That said, I do think his age shows.
But please, let's not kid ourselves about Biden's challenges being anywhere near as bad Trump's mental deficiencies, well documented.

I get why the hard right wants to play up Biden's issues: because they know, deep in their bones, that it's a YUGE issue for their candidate... but it really isn't anywhere near the same magnitude.

In a binary choice on this dimension alone it's not a close call.

I'm waiting his choice of VP. if he chooses Kamala, I am out.

As for Trump, I sure wish he'd replace Pence with Hailey.

Jeh Johnson for Biden's VP. ....will never happen, but hope springs eternal.

Good idea; talk to Joe.

[MDlaxfan76]

what is wrong with Biden?

Saw this yesterday and I didn't find it so indecipherable. Very similar to Nancy's, I don't cares. he, like so many others, is speaking to the importance of isolating and he's frustrated that others, especially the POTUS, doesn't understand this. The Twitter video is purposely edited to not make sense.

It wasn't edited; it was clipped. There is a big difference.

That being said, he has periods of lucidity, then his mind obviously goes off the rails. It's not defaulting today, but there is no way you can convince me this guy will be able to hang in there four years. He is definitely declining here.

PB, I've been watching this guy for decades, never been a fan, and he long ago earned a rep for being a gaffe machine. It was only recently that we learned why, the same brain mechanism that caused his childhood stuttering, which he's almost entirely overcome. The remaining bits are the occasional misplacement of words.

No one who isn't out to smear him doesn't agree with this.

That said, I do think his age shows.
But please, let's not kid ourselves about Biden's challenges being anywhere near as bad Trump's mental deficiencies, well documented.

I get why the hard right wants to play up Biden's issues: because they know, deep in their bones, that it's a YUGE issue for their candidate... but it really isn't anywhere near the same magnitude.

In a binary choice on this dimension alone it's not a close call.

I'm waiting his choice of VP. if he chooses Kamala, I am out.

As for Trump, I sure wish he'd replace Pence with Hailey.

Jeh Johnson for Biden's VP. ....will never happen, but hope springs eternal.

Well as Johnson's not a woman, that's a safe bet.

[dislaxxic]

Did the recommendation about overseas travel discuss PROPER mitigation and process procedures upon disembarking at a destination? BE SPECIFIC. Is the WHO recommendation as shallow as some posters make it out to be? Maybe it is. Remember, the US is said to be 6-8 weeks behind other countries in addressing the methods that could best slow spread. WHY IS THAT? BE SPECIFIC now, why is NO or very little blame being directed at the US federal "response" by many posters? Maybe i have not gone far enough back in the thread to see a more reasonable post on the topic from this particular poster, but the more standard gauntlet-throwing challenges to the way the approach is being criticised is what tends to jump out at you...

..

[Trinity]

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/03/25/co ... -covid-19/

Worst Intelligence Failure in US History.

[dislaxxic]

My thinking is that after Clyburn's bump in South Carolina, a SERIOUS tipping point in this primary and beyond, that Joe will look to input BIG TIME from Mr. Clyburn as to his VP pick. The possibility that it's an AA is high, IMHO. I think PB doesn't like Kamala because she would absolutely ROAST the FlimFlam Man legally after he exits office...something that really needs to happen for the good of the order...

...course, she could do that as AG as well...just sayin'.

..