All things CoronaVirus

[jhu72]

It would really be really useful and we would make a lot more headway if we would just call this virus by its appropriate name: THE CHINESE-WUHAN-KUNG FU-YELLOW PERIL virus. What is wrong with you people?

That is mouth full that I will have a hard time saying or writing. In the spirit of Dear Leader, I vote for BAMBOO COON VIRUS or BCV for short. If we are going to offend a couple billion people, we should at least make it simple.

[youthathletics]

From an earlier discussion:

The thing with his presser dog and pony show is, HE COULD HAVE TAKEN ALL OF THESE ACTIONS TWO MONTHS AGO. I don't think the national emergency declaration had to be done then, but it could have been. I am glad he now seems to be moving in the right direction, but it does not make up for ignoring the experts for months, bungling the test kit issue, and the total lack of transparency up until recently and still no where near the needed transparency.

I'd really have to have a timeline, with certainty of facts, to truly buy into your argument. In the grand scheme of things, the US is is in a great spot, and frankly, much of the US virus infiltration came from travelers. All these actions taken today, could not have taken place, because as you noted earlier, testing required blood and (possible stool) samples, whereas now it is a drive-thru swab. You have to respect the fact that we did not get out over our skis and make matters worse with testing that could have been providing inaccurate results.

Thanks for this post JHU.....it does show that shutting travel down from china (23rd - 31st one week later) was crucial...but sadly, the exiting of the Wuhan crew had already set the wheels in motion. And we actually do not know when the announcement came from China that this is a no joke virus. Remember....we offered to get over there ASAP form our CDC/NIAID leader and they (China refused) did not want support. WE also wanted data, they offered none, many here said that data was not needed. Clearly, the data would have been worthy, and could have possibly expedited responses.

Corona Virus Timeline

Late November, Early December: Virus mutates to it's epidemic form as best scientists can determine the date
December: Through the month numerous cases of what was thought to be cold or flu are noted in Wuhan, later identified as epidemic form
January 7: China reported first case definitively tied to the epidemic form
January 13 - 16: Japan and Thailand reported first cases
January 17 - 19: US, Nepal, France, Australia, Malaysia, Singapore, South Korea, Vietnam and Taiwan reported first cases
Prior to January 23, no Wuhan lockdown, people traveled from Wuhan to other Chinese cities as follows. The vast majority just going to their homes inside China.
JANUARY 23: China locks down Wuhan and surrounding area - this spread across China as authorities deemed necessary. Included travel interdiction, air, land, water.
JANUARY 31: Trump bans travel from China

Basically locking the barn door.

No, we knew of the need to get tests ready well before January 31. We actually knew of the new virus in December. Alarm bells had already gone off.

We should have been testing all inbound travelers from any areas suspected by at least mid January. We weren't even screening.

Much less throughout February we should have been testing all inbound. And all symptomatic patients and those they came into contact with ala SK over that period. They ramped up high surveillance testing fast.

By January 31 it was way too late to think we'd actually stop spread inside the US by banning travel from just China. Even if we'd done worldwide closed borders by that point it was too late. Already here.

Thus the imperative to have ramped up testing hugely.

Here we go again....God has spoken. You are so irrational.

Do you think I'm mistaken on some aspect, whether timeline or logic?
You do realize I'm not making it up as I go along, right?

You can not be mistaken....remember, you are god, just read your posts.
I realize all you do is criticize, cast blame, and pile on; essentially play back seat driver.

[Kismet]

For those concerned that Orange Duce might try to stay in office, by invoking a National Emergency.

A few thoughts on this.

As the article noted, only Congress can change (or cancel) the date of the election. So Pelosi, assuming she controls her caucus, has an absolute veto over any attempt to change or cancel the date of the election.

I haven’t looked into the nature and extent of the president’s martial law powers, but I highly doubt they could be used to cancel the election. I don’t think even this Supreme Court would agree to that.

If, speaking hypothetically, the election could be canceled, then I’m not so sure Pelosi would become President under the succession rules. Yes, Trump and Pence would be out of office, and become private citizens, at noon on January 20, 2021. But Pelosi, along with all other members of the House of Representatives, would be out of office as well by early January 2021 (not sure of the exact date) since they would not have been reelected either. Same would be true for 1/3 of the Senate, including Moscow Mitch who is up for reelection this year.

So where would that leave the Senate? There are actually 35 Senate seats up for election this year, including two special elections. 23 of the 35 are Republicans. We are way out over our skis here (and I’ve probably lost everyone but the lawyers by this point), but if the election is not held, then the Senate would be comprised of 35 Dems and 30 Republicans come January. The next in line to succeed the president, after the vice president and speaker of the house, is the president pro tem of the Senate. No, that is not Moscow Mitch. Currently it is Chuck Grassley. Grassley is not up for reelection this year so he will remain in office in 2021. He serves at the pleasure of the Senate so he could be removed from the president pro tem position by the remaining 65 senators. They would need to do that, however, before January 20. Otherwise, I think Grassley would automatically become president. Obviously, the Democratic controlled Senate would do that and replace him with a Dem. If the above scenario is accurate, then there is no way Trump will try to cancel the election.

OK, back to reality. To me the much more realistic issues concern voting locations and mail in ballots. State legislatures would have to amend state laws to allow mail in voting in a number of states. Not sure which ones, but it is a majority of them. I think there would be real motivation to do so because a lot of their little political butts will be up for election in November. Also, I think states could close or move polling locations based on public health concerns. Hopefully they wouldn’t play games with that, but there is a possible opportunity for mischief.

To be clear, I'm not concerned about a postponement of the election for valid reasons. There are certainly ways to to do a valid election.

My only concern is Trump (or some other authoritarian populist with a cult-like following in a future such situation) taking the truly extra-legal steps to secure power in the face of an actual emergency.

Under the scenario described above, if power actually changed hands, Pelosi would simply call the election beginning immediately with whatever voting processes were safe.

the best information I've seen so far

"A general election is not up to the states. It is governed by federal statute. And this language in particular:
"The Tuesday next after the 1st Monday in November, in every even numbered year, is established as the day for the election, in each of the States and Territories of the United States, of Representatives and Delegates to the Congress commencing on the 3d day of January next thereafter."
The President of the United States doesn't have the ability to change federal law created by Congress. Not by executive order. Not in any way. Only Congress can change federal law. And if you think Congress, where Democrats control the House, is going to cancel (or even change) the date of the election, well, that is not going to happen.

That includes during a national emergency or even in the extreme situation in which Trump proclaims martial law.

"Even that would likely not give him power to postpone election or delay end of his term on Jan. 20, 2021," tweeted University of Kentucky Law School election law expert Josh Douglas. "As Supreme Court said in ex parte Milligan (1866), martial law does not suspend the Constitution."
(For more on ex parte Milligan check this out.)

Now, that doesn't mean that how the vote is conducted can't change. Given the concerns about crowds and the spread of the virus, it's possible that more states could move to a vote-by-mail system for the general election so as to avoid that problem.

But that's a very different thing. Let's put the idea that Trump can cancel the general election in a bin with all of the other conspiracy theories kicking around the internet regarding the reverberations and impacts from coronavirus.

Facts matter. And the facts make clear this ain't happening."

[Trinity]

If we vote by mail, everyone registered, Republicans will be destroyed.

[MDlaxfan76]

From an earlier discussion:

The thing with his presser dog and pony show is, HE COULD HAVE TAKEN ALL OF THESE ACTIONS TWO MONTHS AGO. I don't think the national emergency declaration had to be done then, but it could have been. I am glad he now seems to be moving in the right direction, but it does not make up for ignoring the experts for months, bungling the test kit issue, and the total lack of transparency up until recently and still no where near the needed transparency.

I'd really have to have a timeline, with certainty of facts, to truly buy into your argument. In the grand scheme of things, the US is is in a great spot, and frankly, much of the US virus infiltration came from travelers. All these actions taken today, could not have taken place, because as you noted earlier, testing required blood and (possible stool) samples, whereas now it is a drive-thru swab. You have to respect the fact that we did not get out over our skis and make matters worse with testing that could have been providing inaccurate results.

Thanks for this post JHU.....it does show that shutting travel down from china (23rd - 31st one week later) was crucial...but sadly, the exiting of the Wuhan crew had already set the wheels in motion. And we actually do not know when the announcement came from China that this is a no joke virus. Remember....we offered to get over there ASAP form our CDC/NIAID leader and they (China refused) did not want support. WE also wanted data, they offered none, many here said that data was not needed. Clearly, the data would have been worthy, and could have possibly expedited responses.

Corona Virus Timeline

Late November, Early December: Virus mutates to it's epidemic form as best scientists can determine the date
December: Through the month numerous cases of what was thought to be cold or flu are noted in Wuhan, later identified as epidemic form
January 7: China reported first case definitively tied to the epidemic form
January 13 - 16: Japan and Thailand reported first cases
January 17 - 19: US, Nepal, France, Australia, Malaysia, Singapore, South Korea, Vietnam and Taiwan reported first cases
Prior to January 23, no Wuhan lockdown, people traveled from Wuhan to other Chinese cities as follows. The vast majority just going to their homes inside China.
JANUARY 23: China locks down Wuhan and surrounding area - this spread across China as authorities deemed necessary. Included travel interdiction, air, land, water.
JANUARY 31: Trump bans travel from China

Basically locking the barn door.

No, we knew of the need to get tests ready well before January 31. We actually knew of the new virus in December. Alarm bells had already gone off.

We should have been testing all inbound travelers from any areas suspected by at least mid January. We weren't even screening.

Much less throughout February we should have been testing all inbound. And all symptomatic patients and those they came into contact with ala SK over that period. They ramped up high surveillance testing fast.

By January 31 it was way too late to think we'd actually stop spread inside the US by banning travel from just China. Even if we'd done worldwide closed borders by that point it was too late. Already here.

Thus the imperative to have ramped up testing hugely.

Here we go again....God has spoken. You are so irrational.

Do you think I'm mistaken on some aspect, whether timeline or logic?
You do realize I'm not making it up as I go along, right?

You can not be mistaken....remember, you are god, just read your posts.
I realize all you do is criticize, cast blame, and pile on; essentially play back seat driver.

geez, the personal attack really isn't compelling logically, youth, but if it makes you feel better to vent at me, go ahead.

Or if you actually want to make your case, even better.

BTW, I meant no personal disrespect in my posts above.

[tech37]

Take that virus:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programm ... s-in-april

[MDlaxfan76]

For those concerned that Orange Duce might try to stay in office, by invoking a National Emergency.

A few thoughts on this.

As the article noted, only Congress can change (or cancel) the date of the election. So Pelosi, assuming she controls her caucus, has an absolute veto over any attempt to change or cancel the date of the election.

I haven’t looked into the nature and extent of the president’s martial law powers, but I highly doubt they could be used to cancel the election. I don’t think even this Supreme Court would agree to that.

If, speaking hypothetically, the election could be canceled, then I’m not so sure Pelosi would become President under the succession rules. Yes, Trump and Pence would be out of office, and become private citizens, at noon on January 20, 2021. But Pelosi, along with all other members of the House of Representatives, would be out of office as well by early January 2021 (not sure of the exact date) since they would not have been reelected either. Same would be true for 1/3 of the Senate, including Moscow Mitch who is up for reelection this year.

So where would that leave the Senate? There are actually 35 Senate seats up for election this year, including two special elections. 23 of the 35 are Republicans. We are way out over our skis here (and I’ve probably lost everyone but the lawyers by this point), but if the election is not held, then the Senate would be comprised of 35 Dems and 30 Republicans come January. The next in line to succeed the president, after the vice president and speaker of the house, is the president pro tem of the Senate. No, that is not Moscow Mitch. Currently it is Chuck Grassley. Grassley is not up for reelection this year so he will remain in office in 2021. He serves at the pleasure of the Senate so he could be removed from the president pro tem position by the remaining 65 senators. They would need to do that, however, before January 20. Otherwise, I think Grassley would automatically become president. Obviously, the Democratic controlled Senate would do that and replace him with a Dem. If the above scenario is accurate, then there is no way Trump will try to cancel the election.

OK, back to reality. To me the much more realistic issues concern voting locations and mail in ballots. State legislatures would have to amend state laws to allow mail in voting in a number of states. Not sure which ones, but it is a majority of them. I think there would be real motivation to do so because a lot of their little political butts will be up for election in November. Also, I think states could close or move polling locations based on public health concerns. Hopefully they wouldn’t play games with that, but there is a possible opportunity for mischief.

To be clear, I'm not concerned about a postponement of the election for valid reasons. There are certainly ways to to do a valid election.

My only concern is Trump (or some other authoritarian populist with a cult-like following in a future such situation) taking the truly extra-legal steps to secure power in the face of an actual emergency.

Under the scenario described above, if power actually changed hands, Pelosi would simply call the election beginning immediately with whatever voting processes were safe.

the best information I've seen so far

"A general election is not up to the states. It is governed by federal statute. And this language in particular:
"The Tuesday next after the 1st Monday in November, in every even numbered year, is established as the day for the election, in each of the States and Territories of the United States, of Representatives and Delegates to the Congress commencing on the 3d day of January next thereafter."
The President of the United States doesn't have the ability to change federal law created by Congress. Not by executive order. Not in any way. Only Congress can change federal law. And if you think Congress, where Democrats control the House, is going to cancel (or even change) the date of the election, well, that is not going to happen.

That includes during a national emergency or even in the extreme situation in which Trump proclaims martial law.

"Even that would likely not give him power to postpone election or delay end of his term on Jan. 20, 2021," tweeted University of Kentucky Law School election law expert Josh Douglas. "As Supreme Court said in ex parte Milligan (1866), martial law does not suspend the Constitution."
(For more on ex parte Milligan check this out.)

Now, that doesn't mean that how the vote is conducted can't change. Given the concerns about crowds and the spread of the virus, it's possible that more states could move to a vote-by-mail system for the general election so as to avoid that problem.

But that's a very different thing. Let's put the idea that Trump can cancel the general election in a bin with all of the other conspiracy theories kicking around the internet regarding the reverberations and impacts from coronavirus.

Facts matter. And the facts make clear this ain't happening."

I'm with you and the source you quote.

I'm just paranoid.
As I said, The Constitution stands only as long as we make sure it does.

[MDlaxfan76]

Take that virus:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programm ... s-in-april

tech, you do realize that's not surprising, right?

Thankfully, there's whole bunch of folks on track.

There will be a vaccine in due course. But 12-18 months before available for widespread distribution.

Perhaps that's all you meant too.

[CU77]

You can not be mistaken....remember, you are god, just read your posts.
I realize all you do is criticize, cast blame, and pile on; essentially play back seat driver.

*sigh* Taking cues from their Dear Leader, another trumpista resorts to ad hominem attacks.

Yes we are criticizing and casting blame, because Trump and his coterie of ass-kissing yesmen and relatives has effed it up royally. See, for just one tiny example, my recent post on the clusterf* of how the europe travel ban was rolled out. Or my post with the Foreign Affaris article on how Obama's transition staff conducted a pandemic exercise for Trump and his clueless minions (e.g. Flynn, who was out a month later and is now a convicted criminal).

Why are we doing this? Because some of us still have a dim dim hope that some of you trumpistas will eventually muster the ability to open your eyes, and help the country out by helping us to dislodge these clowns in November, before they can do god-knows-what more damage.

[RedFromMI]

You can not be mistaken....remember, you are god, just read your posts.
I realize all you do is criticize, cast blame, and pile on; essentially play back seat driver.

*sigh* Taking cues from their Dear Leader, another trumpista resorts to ad hominem attacks.

Yes we are criticizing and casting blame, because Trump and his coterie of ass-kissing yesmen and relatives has effed it up royally. See, for just one tiny example, my recent post on the clusterf* of how the europe travel ban was rolled out. Or my post with the Foreign Affaris article on how Obama's transition staff conducted a pandemic exercise for Trump and his clueless minions (e.g. Flynn, who was out a month later and is now a convicted criminal).

Why are we doing this? Because some of us still have a dim dim hope that some of you trumpistas will eventually muster the ability to open your eyes, and help the country out by helping us to dislodge these clowns in November, before they can do god-knows-what more damage.

+1000

[youthathletics]

You can not be mistaken....remember, you are god, just read your posts.
I realize all you do is criticize, cast blame, and pile on; essentially play back seat driver.

*sigh* Taking cues from their Dear Leader, another trumpista resorts to ad hominem attacks.

Yes we are criticizing and casting blame, because Trump and his coterie of ass-kissing yesmen and relatives has effed it up royally. See, for just one tiny example, my recent post on the clusterf* of how the europe travel ban was rolled out. Or my post with the Foreign Affaris article on how Obama's transition staff conducted a pandemic exercise for Trump and his clueless minions (e.g. Flynn, who was out a month later and is now a convicted criminal).

Why are we doing this? Because some of us still have a dim dim hope that some of you trumpistas will eventually muster the ability to open your eyes, and help the country out by helping us to dislodge these clowns in November, before they can do god-knows-what more damage.

Let's use your logic and critcisim of our POTUS admin. By your logic, every country that is experiencing this virus, has a horrible president. Why, because each of those countries ALSO has essentially the same exact problems.....and yet, the US death rate is damned near the lowest in the countries that have been hit the hardest.

Take the log out of your own eye.

[old salt]

You can not be mistaken....remember, you are god, just read your posts.
I realize all you do is criticize, cast blame, and pile on; essentially play back seat driver.

*sigh* Taking cues from their Dear Leader, another trumpista resorts to ad hominem attacks.

Yes we are criticizing and casting blame, because Trump and his coterie of ass-kissing yesmen and relatives has effed it up royally. See, for just one tiny example, my recent post on the clusterf* of how the europe travel ban was rolled out. Or my post with the Foreign Affaris article on how Obama's transition staff conducted a pandemic exercise for Trump and his clueless minions (e.g. Flynn, who was out a month later and is now a convicted criminal).

Why are we doing this? Because some of us still have a dim dim hope that some of you trumpistas will eventually muster the ability to open your eyes, and help the country out by helping us to dislodge these clowns in November, before they can do god-knows-what more damage.

+1000

Are you hopeseekers planning on abolishing the Electoral College by Nov, or are you issuing a call to arms for violent regime change ?

[foreverlax]

You can not be mistaken....remember, you are god, just read your posts.
I realize all you do is criticize, cast blame, and pile on; essentially play back seat driver.

*sigh* Taking cues from their Dear Leader, another trumpista resorts to ad hominem attacks.

Yes we are criticizing and casting blame, because Trump and his coterie of ass-kissing yesmen and relatives has effed it up royally. See, for just one tiny example, my recent post on the clusterf* of how the europe travel ban was rolled out. Or my post with the Foreign Affaris article on how Obama's transition staff conducted a pandemic exercise for Trump and his clueless minions (e.g. Flynn, who was out a month later and is now a convicted criminal).

Why are we doing this? Because some of us still have a dim dim hope that some of you trumpistas will eventually muster the ability to open your eyes, and help the country out by helping us to dislodge these clowns in November, before they can do god-knows-what more damage.

Let's use your logic and critcisim of our POTUS admin. By your logic, every country that is experiencing this virus, has a horrible president. Why, because each of those countries ALSO has essentially the same exact problems.....and yet, the US death rate is damned near the lowest in the countries that have been hit the hardest.

Take the log out of your own eye.

It will all come out in the hearings.

[foreverlax]

You can not be mistaken....remember, you are god, just read your posts.
I realize all you do is criticize, cast blame, and pile on; essentially play back seat driver.

*sigh* Taking cues from their Dear Leader, another trumpista resorts to ad hominem attacks.

Yes we are criticizing and casting blame, because Trump and his coterie of ass-kissing yesmen and relatives has effed it up royally. See, for just one tiny example, my recent post on the clusterf* of how the europe travel ban was rolled out. Or my post with the Foreign Affaris article on how Obama's transition staff conducted a pandemic exercise for Trump and his clueless minions (e.g. Flynn, who was out a month later and is now a convicted criminal).

Why are we doing this? Because some of us still have a dim dim hope that some of you trumpistas will eventually muster the ability to open your eyes, and help the country out by helping us to dislodge these clowns in November, before they can do god-knows-what more damage.

+1000

Are you hopeseekers planning on abolishing the Electoral College by Nov, or are you issuing a call to arms for violent regime change ?

trolling and doing a shaat job...

[old salt]

You can not be mistaken....remember, you are god, just read your posts.
I realize all you do is criticize, cast blame, and pile on; essentially play back seat driver.

*sigh* Taking cues from their Dear Leader, another trumpista resorts to ad hominem attacks.

Yes we are criticizing and casting blame, because Trump and his coterie of ass-kissing yesmen and relatives has effed it up royally. See, for just one tiny example, my recent post on the clusterf* of how the europe travel ban was rolled out. Or my post with the Foreign Affaris article on how Obama's transition staff conducted a pandemic exercise for Trump and his clueless minions (e.g. Flynn, who was out a month later and is now a convicted criminal).

Why are we doing this? Because some of us still have a dim dim hope that some of you trumpistas will eventually muster the ability to open your eyes, and help the country out by helping us to dislodge these clowns in November, before they can do god-knows-what more damage.

+1000

Are you hopeseekers planning on abolishing the Electoral College by Nov, or are you issuing a call to arms for violent regime change ?

trolling and doing a shaat job...

Agree. You & they are doing a lousy job.

[calourie]

You can not be mistaken....remember, you are god, just read your posts.
I realize all you do is criticize, cast blame, and pile on; essentially play back seat driver.

*sigh* Taking cues from their Dear Leader, another trumpista resorts to ad hominem attacks.

Yes we are criticizing and casting blame, because Trump and his coterie of ass-kissing yesmen and relatives has effed it up royally. See, for just one tiny example, my recent post on the clusterf* of how the europe travel ban was rolled out. Or my post with the Foreign Affaris article on how Obama's transition staff conducted a pandemic exercise for Trump and his clueless minions (e.g. Flynn, who was out a month later and is now a convicted criminal).

Why are we doing this? Because some of us still have a dim dim hope that some of you trumpistas will eventually muster the ability to open your eyes, and help the country out by helping us to dislodge these clowns in November, before they can do god-knows-what more damage.

+1000

Are you hopeseekers planning on abolishing the Electoral College by Nov, or are you issuing a call to arms for violent regime change ?

Come on Salty, you are better than this. As far as I can ascertain from some a good number of your posts you don't really like the guy a whole lot yourself and would just as soon see him removed from office to boot. You like to ridicule TDS, but you demean yourself with your own HTDSOS (Hate Trump Dementia Syndrome Overreaction Syndrome).

[youthathletics]

Site has been down for close to 20 minutes. https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboar ... 7b48e9ecf6 Maybe the server caught a virus.

[old salt]

You can not be mistaken....remember, you are god, just read your posts.
I realize all you do is criticize, cast blame, and pile on; essentially play back seat driver.

*sigh* Taking cues from their Dear Leader, another trumpista resorts to ad hominem attacks.

Yes we are criticizing and casting blame, because Trump and his coterie of ass-kissing yesmen and relatives has effed it up royally. See, for just one tiny example, my recent post on the clusterf* of how the europe travel ban was rolled out. Or my post with the Foreign Affaris article on how Obama's transition staff conducted a pandemic exercise for Trump and his clueless minions (e.g. Flynn, who was out a month later and is now a convicted criminal).

Why are we doing this? Because some of us still have a dim dim hope that some of you trumpistas will eventually muster the ability to open your eyes, and help the country out by helping us to dislodge these clowns in November, before they can do god-knows-what more damage.

+1000

Are you hopeseekers planning on abolishing the Electoral College by Nov, or are you issuing a call to arms for violent regime change ?

Come on Salty, you are better than this. As far as I can ascertain from some a good number of your posts you don't really like the guy a whole lot yourself and would just as soon see him removed from office to boot. You like to ridicule TDS, but you demean yourself with your own HTDSOS (Hate Trump Dementia Syndrome Overreaction Syndrome).

I'm growing weary of being scolded for Trump being in office. Given the states in which we reside, my vote would be as useless as yours, if we voted for Trump. I may not like or admre Trump, but I'm not going to stop defending him when he does something of which I approve. Frankly, I have even less confidence in most of his unhinged critics.

[OCanada]

Two weeks ago the virus was a hoax. Then it became a national emergency. Then there would be unlimited test kits by Friday. Then the governors were told get your own respirators. Then Trump said i am not. responsible. Meanwhile Fox News following its master’s voice marched along side. Doing a 180 in less than a week. The lack of any proactive, defensive decisions and actions is staggering

Dr F btw is NIH not CDC and where was he anyway?
Two Italians at the request of Drs used a 3D printer fo make the key part of a respirator. Cost$1. The company that was selling them was charging 11,000 if memory serves.company is suing for patent infringement.

[Trinity]

Today Trump is a wartime president.