MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:27 pm
Still defending the decisions to develop US tests rather than scaling up fast with what was already available.
As if these were mutually exclusive.
No, we could have been testing far more with what was available and then moved to "better" tests once developed and tested. Assuming actually better.
I have no idea on what planet it made sense to turn down help in the form of WHO Covid-19 test kits one month ago. Take the tests while developing our own. It has worked for South Korea.
Ask the CDC official(s) who made that decision. There will be plenty of time for 2nd guessing that decision in the inevitable Congressional show trials & scapegoating. Likewise with the FDA officials who enforced the existing EUA regs re new local lab developed tests.
Hopefully we have Benghazi style hearings as to who made the call.
You can bet on it. Testing is just the handy stick being used by partisans to beat Trump, at the moment.
Testing is just one facet of our overall shortfall in a system that developed to deal with previous epidemics, which never came to our shores as a pandemic of this magnitude.
Of course, all the necessary brainpower resided solely within a now disestablished office within the Obama NSC, rather than throughout the rest of the Federal govt.
obtw -- Dr Fouchy just said the following about the need for widespread testing (in response to a NBC reporter) ; We tend to think we're not going to be able to mitigate or contain without testing. They complement each other in some respects but their separate channels. Even if we had no testing, we should be doing what we're doing now. The question you're asking, so I won't evade it, specifically -- would it be important outside of a doctor-patient coming in together, knowing what's out there, under the
radar screen ? The answer is -- Yes. So let me tell you what the CDC is doing right now -- they're going out there to get a feel for whats out there that wasn't a part of the corona virus. When you do that, you're also going to get a feel for what the penetration level is in society. So we are heading, with the high throughput things you've been hearing about, to get an answer to your question.
Getting rid of the Pandemic response committee’s chain of command and support didn’t help either. Blame it on Obamer. The buck stops over there
Right. That corner of the NSC contained the only resident expertise capable of making decisions in this field.
No, the White House didn’t ‘dissolve’ its pandemic response office. I was there.
Tim Morrison is a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute and former senior director for counterproliferation and biodefense on the National Security Council.
President Trump gets his share of criticism — some warranted, much not. But recently the president’s critics have chosen curious ground to question his response to the coronavirus outbreak since it began spreading from Wuhan, China, in December.
It has been alleged by multiple officials of the Obama administration, including in The Post, that the president and his then-national security adviser, John Bolton, “dissolved the office” at the White House in charge of pandemic preparedness. Because I led the very directorate assigned that mission, the counterproliferation and biodefense office, for a year and then handed it off to another official who still holds the post, I know the charge is specious.
Now, I’m not naive. This is Washington. It’s an election year. Officials out of power want back into power after November. But the middle of a worldwide health emergency is not the time to be making tendentious accusations.
When I joined the National Security Council staff in 2018, I inherited a strong and skilled staff in the counterproliferation and biodefense directorate. This team of national experts together drafted the National Biodefense Strategy of 2018 and an accompanying national security presidential memorandum to implement it; an executive order to modernize influenza vaccines; and coordinated the United States’ response to the Ebola epidemic in Congo, which was ultimately defeated in 2020.
It is true that the Trump administration has seen fit to shrink the NSC staff. But the bloat that occurred under the previous administration clearly needed a correction. Defense Secretary Robert Gates, congressional oversight committees and members of the Obama administration itself all agreed the NSC was too large and too operationally focused (a departure from its traditional role coordinating executive branch activity). As The Post reported in 2015, from the Clinton administration to the Obama administration’s second term, the NSC’s staff “had quadrupled in size, to nearly 400 people.” That is why Trump began streamlining the NSC staff in 2017.
One such move at the NSC was to create the counterproliferation and biodefense directorate, which was the result of consolidating three directorates into one, given the obvious overlap between arms control and nonproliferation, weapons of mass destruction terrorism, and global health and biodefense. It is this reorganization that critics have misconstrued or intentionally misrepresented. If anything, the combined directorate was stronger because related expertise could be commingled.
The reduction of force in the NSC has continued since I departed the White House. But it has left the biodefense staff unaffected — perhaps a recognition of the importance of that mission to the president, who, after all, in 2018 issued a presidential memorandum to finally create real accountability in the federal government’s expansive biodefense system.
The NSC is really the only place in government where there is a staff that ensures the commander in chief gets all the options he needs to make a decision, and then makes sure that decision is actually implemented. I worry that further reductions at the NSC could impair its capabilities, but the current staffing level is fully up to the job.
You might ask: Why does all this matter? Won’t it just be a historical footnote?
It matters because when people play politics in the middle of a crisis, we are all less safe.
We are less safe because public servants are distracted when they are dragged into politics.
We’re less safe because the American people have been recklessly scared into doubting the competence of their government to help keep them safe, secure and healthy.
And we’re less safe because when we’re focused on political gamesmanship, we’re not paying enough attention to the real issues.
And we should be united in demanding to know why the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) was aware of the coronavirus outbreak in Wuhan early in December, maybe even November, and didn’t tell the rest of the world, when stopping the deadly spread might have been possible.
Just as the United States has fought against fake information aimed at our elections, we should fight back against CCP propagandists. They are not only campaigning against the use of the term “Wuhan virus” (a more geographically accurate description than “Spanish flu” ever was about the 1918 pandemic) but now also promoting the false claim that covid-19 was created by the U.S. Army. Public health officials have pinpointed a wild-animal market in Wuhan as the outbreak’s origin.
There are real threats emanating from this pandemic. We need to focus on getting our response right and save the finger-pointing for what comes after.
He is a lawyer....gmafb, he has no standing based on no expertise.
...compared to EBOLA Czar Ron Klain -- lawyer & VP Biden's COS ?
Morrison headed the NSC directorate & oversaw the consolidation of related functions, with overlapping expertise.
Last edited by old salt on Tue Mar 17, 2020 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
6ft:
And at todays Press Conference the task force blew up the whole WHO testing story as well.
Yep. The PHS Admiral said : When I became involved in the testing world, I called as many senior officials at the WHO that I could find, to understand what the situation was. Aas far as I can tell, from sources that should know, no one ever offered a test that we refused. This is a research grade test that was not approved, not submitted to the FDA, that was supplied in tens of thousands in quantity, to a hundred countries in the world. There's a lot being said about this based on rumor & myth. Nothing was offered that we refused. It was a research test that was not approved. It was a small amount that we have greatly surpassed in a short amount of time.
Maybe we won't need to wait for a Congressional show trial. When it comes to disinformation, the Russians & Chinese can't hold a candle to the (D) hacks & their MSM handmaidens. Never let a good crisis go to waste.
I will wait for the hearings. The words “As far as I can tell” are not necessary for what reason?
Once again you got nothin. 4 years. Fake news after fake news. You have NO credibility.
Trump and company are responsible for the slow start. NO ONE in the professional CDC chain of command made a unilateral decision to not use the WHO test. NO ONE!!!!
CDC and FDA are driven by process. Written process. Authorized by Congress. Something Trump doesn't understand and has no use for. No one in the CDC rank and file has the authority to make that decision. The FDA does however have the ability to refuse to allow the use of anything clinically in the US that does not meet their WRITTEN PROCESS DRIVEN approval process. To change the behavior of the CDC or the FDA, someone in the administration has to take an action. The morons working for Trump know nothing about any of the written processes. NOTHING! They play musical chairs constantly and no one with the authority sticks around long enough that there is any trust in the chain of command that they are even aware of the process.
Given the situation with WHO test, I am 100% positive that someone in the rank and file tried to bring attention to hire ups. To no avail. Either someone stood in the way, not bringing it to Trump's attention or they heard it and said don't worry about it, or gave no response. In the meantime the CDC does have authority without going higher to develop their own test kit. It is part of the written process and authority. They don't need to go to the administration for this.
To use the WHO kit, someone high up would have had to make a decision to do that. THEY DID NOT!
Now all Trump and his sycophants do is pat themselves on the back for how they straightened out the bureaucratic process. They have done no such thing. They simply became aware of the process and that they could have input which would change its behavior in specific instances, at their will. Same goes for fast tracking the Roche machine. They make out like the process is the problem. It is not. IDIOT'S NOT KNOWING HOW TO DRIVE IT IS THE PROBLEM!
jhu72 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 17, 2020 2:19 pm
Trump and company are responsible for the slow start. NO ONE in the professional CDC chain of command made a unilateral decision to not use the WHO test. NO ONE!!!!
CDC and FDA are driven by process. Written process. Authorized by Congress. Something Trump doesn't understand and has no use for. No one in the CDC rank and file has the authority to make that decision. The FDA does however have the ability to refuse to allow the use of anything clinically in the US that does not meet their WRITTEN PROCESS DRIVEN approval process. To change the behavior of the CDC or the FDA, someone in the administration has to take an action. The morons working for Trump know nothing about any of the written processes. NOTHING! They play musical chairs constantly and no one with the authority sticks around long enough that there is any trust in the chain of command that they are even aware of the process.
Given the situation with WHO test, I am 100% positive that someone in the rank and file tried to bring attention to hire ups. To no avail. Either someone stood in the way, not bringing it to Trump's attention or they heard it and said don't worry about it, or gave no response. In the meantime the CDC does have authority without going higher to develop their own test kit. It is part of the written process and authority. They don't need to go to the administration for this.
To use the WHO kit, someone high up would have had to make a decision to do that. THEY DID NOT!
Now all Trump and his sycophants do is pat themselves on the back for how they straightened out the bureaucratic process. They have done no such thing. They simply became aware of the process and that they could have input which would change its behavior in specific instances, at their will. Same goes for fast tracking the Roche machine. They make out like the process is the problem. It is not. IDIOT'S NOT KNOWING HOW TO DRIVE IT IS THE PROBLEM!
So those two people—BIRX AND GIROIR— are idiots?
10-4 sparky
Last edited by 6ftstick on Tue Mar 17, 2020 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
jhu72 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 17, 2020 2:19 pm
Trump and company are responsible for the slow start. NO ONE in the professional CDC chain of command made a unilateral decision to not use the WHO test. NO ONE!!!!
CDC and FDA are driven by process. Written process. Authorized by Congress. Something Trump doesn't understand and has no use for. No one in the CDC rank and file has the authority to make that decision. The FDA does however have the ability to refuse to allow the use of anything clinically in the US that does not meet their WRITTEN PROCESS DRIVEN approval process. To change the behavior of the CDC or the FDA, someone in the administration has to take an action. The morons working for Trump know nothing about any of the written processes. NOTHING! They play musical chairs constantly and no one with the authority sticks around long enough that there is any trust in the chain of command that they are even aware of the process.
Given the situation with WHO test, I am 100% positive that someone in the rank and file tried to bring attention to hire ups. To no avail. Either someone stood in the way, not bringing it to Trump's attention or they heard it and said don't worry about it, or gave no response. In the meantime the CDC does have authority without going higher to develop their own test kit. It is part of the written process and authority. They don't need to go to the administration for this.
To use the WHO kit, someone high up would have had to make a decision to do that. THEY DID NOT!
Now all Trump and his sycophants do is pat themselves on the back for how they straightened out the bureaucratic process. They have done no such thing. They simply became aware of the process and that they could have input which would change its behavior in specific instances, at their will. Same goes for fast tracking the Roche machine. They make out like the process is the problem. It is not. IDIOT'S NOT KNOWING HOW TO DRIVE IT IS THE PROBLEM!
So those two people are idiots?
10-4 sparky
The only thing you know is that the Admiral tried to get some information. You don't know how hard he tried (other than it looks like - not very). How did all the other nations get access to the WHO test kit?? Magic I guess.
To have gotten the WHO solution - someone in the TRUMP administration would have had to instruct FDA and CDC to alter their process in this case. THAT DID NOT HAPPEN.
PS: Birx was not even on board at the time
Last edited by jhu72 on Tue Mar 17, 2020 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
What makes you think Trump and inner circle were listening to an Under Secretary of Health in December and January?? You know when this was a "democrat hoax".
youthathletics wrote: ↑Tue Mar 17, 2020 2:45 pm
What ever. By your standards....every country with growing virus outbreak is imperfect. You are sooooo smart and perfect.
Not at all. All I know is we could have done better, as does everyone else, and blaming it on some rank and file civil servants in the CDC, FDA or NIH is a dog that will not hunt!
youthathletics wrote: ↑Tue Mar 17, 2020 2:45 pm
What ever. By your standards....every country with growing virus outbreak is imperfect. You are sooooo smart and perfect.
Not at all. All I know is we could have done better, as does everyone else, and blaming it on some rank and file civil servants in the CDC, FDA or NIH is a dog that will not hunt!
youthathletics wrote: ↑Tue Mar 17, 2020 2:45 pm
What ever. By your standards....every country with growing virus outbreak is imperfect. You are sooooo smart and perfect.
Not at all. All I know is we could have done better, as does everyone else, and blaming it on some rank and file civil servants in the CDC, FDA or NIH is a dog that will not hunt!
That is a given...by each and every leader of each and every country. But to try and cast ALL THE BLAME on a single person (in this case our POTUS) is nothing short of partisan bemoaning. Our entire medical infrastructure failed.....period and even though Trump may have 'wanted' to cut it, it was not.
By your standards, 'hat is bad for America is good for democrats.... and that seems to be the line you are towing.
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Soren Kierkegaard
Trinity wrote: ↑Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:54 am
“The contrast between @NYGovCuomo ‘a #coronavirus press conference and @realDonaldTrump’s press conferences could not be more striking. You almost forget what competence, leadership and honesty feel like until you’re reminded.“
Charles Blow
Larry Hogan in Maryland has also been excellent.
Agree, saw Cuomo. Night and day the difference.
I thought he was especially powerful when he was talking about not being able to see, hold his daughter.
Immense competence coupled with great empathy...and knowing how important it is to speak to the latter as well.
Cuomo/Hogan...2020.
Don't know about Hogan, but Cuomo's stock has certainly risen. I'd just caution you on putting Cuomo on a pedestal so quickly. Rudy Giuliani was perceived highly right after 9/11, with people calling for him for national office.
jhu72 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:40 pm
Was on the phone so I didn't catch all of the presser. Just catching the tail end. Night and day between today's and everything last week. The administration deserves kudos for starting to get the "communication" part of this business right - or at least moving in the right direction.
When the presser started, the market was going down. It dropped below 20K a few minutes into the presser, it has rebounded as the presser has gone on. That should act as positive reinforcement for Trump.
Agree on the more positive actions outlined at the presser.
Can't STAND, or understand, the need for Trump to continue his hyperbole on how great and outstanding he's doing, or for how deeply his lackeys seem to feel the need to kowtow to Liar-in-Chief.
Cuomo/Hogan was offered tongue-in-cheek.
Dem/GOP governor ticket, reflecting competence and straight talk.
What makes you think Trump and inner circle were listening to an Under Secretary of Health in December and January?? You know when this was a "democrat hoax".
You really are trump deranged.
He never said the virus was a hoax. He said the negative hostile media coverage was a hoax. And he was right.
6ft:
And at todays Press Conference the task force blew up the whole WHO testing story as well.
Yep. The PHS Admiral said : When I became involved in the testing world, I called as many senior officials at the WHO that I could find, to understand what the situation was. Aas far as I can tell, from sources that should know, no one ever offered a test that we refused. This is a research grade test that was not approved, not submitted to the FDA, that was supplied in tens of thousands in quantity, to a hundred countries in the world. There's a lot being said about this based on rumor & myth. Nothing was offered that we refused. It was a research test that was not approved. It was a small amount that we have greatly surpassed in a short amount of time.
Maybe we won't need to wait for a Congressional show trial. When it comes to disinformation, the Russians & Chinese can't hold a candle to the (D) hacks & their MSM handmaidens. Never let a good crisis go to waste.
If only the r's had listened to HRC Press Statements about Benghazi...
LOL
by cradleandshoot » Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:57 am Mr moderator, deactivate my account. You have heck this forum up to making it nothing more than a joke. I hope you are happy. This is cradle and shoot signing out.
youthathletics wrote: ↑Tue Mar 17, 2020 2:45 pm
What ever. By your standards....every country with growing virus outbreak is imperfect. You are sooooo smart and perfect.
Not at all. All I know is we could have done better, as does everyone else, and blaming it on some rank and file civil servants in the CDC, FDA or NIH is a dog that will not hunt!
That is a given...by each and every leader of each and every country. But to try and cast ALL THE BLAME on a single person (in this case our POTUS) is nothing short of partisan bemoaning. Our entire medical infrastructure failed.....period and even though Trump may have 'wanted' to cut it, it was not.
By your standards, 'hat is bad for America is good for democrats.... and that seems to be the line you are towing. -- what BS.
This is not all Trump's fault. He had help. The people he has surrounded himself with. Enabling him and sucking up to him.
Last edited by jhu72 on Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
What makes you think Trump and inner circle were listening to an Under Secretary of Health in December and January?? You know when this was a "democrat hoax".
You really are trump deranged.
He never said the virus was a hoax. He said the negative hostile media coverage was a hoax. And he was right.
Except that the coverage was hostile BECAUSE IT WAS DESERVED. It was quite clear Trump has been out of his depth the whole time. The only hoax is the spin Trump and his supporters have been trying to put on it, and claim everything else was a hoax.
Trump downplayed the threat for weeks. Said we have 15 cases - soon to trend to zero. Absolute BS. It is not derangement to call out the truth. And I am thankful the MSM has for the most part gotten this right, and until just recently the top of the Trump administration has been woefully (and dangerously) wrong. We have lost time due to that downplaying of the possible scenarios, and therefore essentially helped to make the worst ones more likely and the ones with least effect to be less likely.
What makes you think Trump and inner circle were listening to an Under Secretary of Health in December and January?? You know when this was a "democrat hoax".
You really are trump deranged.
He never said the virus was a hoax. He said the negative hostile media coverage was a hoax. And he was right.
You mean his comments and those of his cohorts on Fox that the virus "hysteria" was a hoax designed to undermine him and his reelection chances? I guess he and they never said what they said. The truth actually doesn't reside elsewhere, 6ft., and there is plenty of video evidence recording exactly what was said directly refuting your contention.
youthathletics wrote: ↑Tue Mar 17, 2020 2:45 pm
What ever. By your standards....every country with growing virus outbreak is imperfect. You are sooooo smart and perfect.
Not at all. All I know is we could have done better, as does everyone else, and blaming it on some rank and file civil servants in the CDC, FDA or NIH is a dog that will not hunt!
That is a given...by each and every leader of each and every country. But to try and cast ALL THE BLAME on a single person (in this case our POTUS) is nothing short of partisan bemoaning. Our entire medical infrastructure failed.....period and even though Trump may have 'wanted' to cut it, it was not.
By your standards, 'hat is bad for America is good for democrats.... and that seems to be the line you are towing. -- what BS.
This is not all Trump's fault. He had help. The people he has surrounded himself with. Enabling him.
