NESCAC

[Lax3]

Kudos to the Williams coaches, captains and seniors for celebrating the end of a nice win and a season. I am not a Williams fan, per se, but I thought it was pretty cool how they were able to celebrate. Would have to believe that the extra day for the information to digest gave them the opportunity to do something that the Tufts players wouldn't have had a chance to do since they found out at halftime. Kudos to the Ephs!

[ctlaxfan99]

Watched Trinity defeat Clark. I'd say it was pretty emotional at the end even if they were not necessarily a top team in the league this year. Just have to feel for those seniors. Put in the work for four years just to have it cut short. I get that a 5th year at any nescac is tough for many reasons, but I hope they at least get the option.

[LaxRat43]

Not to join in on the amateur psychoanalysis of the behavior of emotional college students, but maybe the Ephs made the decision to enjoy their last 60 minutes doing their favorite thing with their best friends?

I know we like to overanalyze things on here from a lacrosse perspective but are we really going to tie back how a bunch of kids reacted to quite literally one-in-a-lifetime circumstances to national championship prospects?

[PlayerSource]

I was at the Tufts game yest. and just watched the end of Williams/RPI on the webs (a comeback win by the Ephs). Interesting to note the difference between the joy with which Ephs celebrated the win tonight as compared to the melancholy response at Tufts yest. Was the difference due to a day to digest and reconcile the news or the result of a comeback win, curious.

I think because based on the first four games, Tufts was 100% the #1 team in the country and those kids probably felt as though the National Championship was taken from them before they could make a run. Williams has not proven anything on the national stage and barely beating RPI shows how vulnerable they are despite all the Hype. I would celebrate too if I almost lost to team that is not in the top 20.

You should play a team after their entire season is cancelled. It might have an effect on you, even on different teams differently!

[Dr. Pretorious]

[I think because based on the first four games, Tufts was 100% the #1 team in the country
[/quote]

Really?? Might want to expand your worldview beyond the southern Connecticut state line. There’s a team down in Maryland coached by Jim Berkman that you might want to pay at least some nodding respect to when making such a statement. No doubt Tufts is a formidable program with as good a shot as anyone, including Salisbury, to win the championship this year if given the opportunity. But to say that they are “100% the #1 team in the country” after 4 games, and to completely disregard Salisbury’s dominant 7-0 start, Including convincing wins over Lynchburg, Gettysburg and Stevens (all ranked in the top 15 at the time the games were played) just detracts from your credibility.

[The12lov3]

[I think because based on the first four games, Tufts was 100% the #1 team in the country

Really?? Might want to expand your worldview beyond the southern Connecticut state line. There’s a team down in Maryland coached by Jim Berkman that you might want to pay at least some nodding respect to when making such a statement. No doubt Tufts is a formidable program with as good a shot as anyone, including Salisbury, to win the championship this year if given the opportunity. But to say that they are “100% the #1 team in the country” after 4 games, and to completely disregard Salisbury’s dominant 7-0 start, Including convincing wins over Lynchburg, Gettysburg and Stevens (all ranked in the top 15 at the time the games were played) just detracts from your credibility.
[/quote]



Tufts destroyed the number 2 team in the country at the tome Amherst and destroyed Ithaca. They are not kist beating but blowing out ranked team. Salisbury while 7 and 0 has not been nearly as dominate against ranked opponents. I am basing my assessment on the fact that they have scored 100 goals in 4 games and not even the top teams have been able to slow down that offense. Oh defensively they are pretty darn good too since a fair amount of goals against them have been in the 4Q when they are playing the less experience people.

[Dr. Pretorious]

[I think because based on the first four games, Tufts was 100% the #1 team in the country

Really?? Might want to expand your worldview beyond the southern Connecticut state line. There’s a team down in Maryland coached by Jim Berkman that you might want to pay at least some nodding respect to when making such a statement. No doubt Tufts is a formidable program with as good a shot as anyone, including Salisbury, to win the championship this year if given the opportunity. But to say that they are “100% the #1 team in the country” after 4 games, and to completely disregard Salisbury’s dominant 7-0 start, Including convincing wins over Lynchburg, Gettysburg and Stevens (all ranked in the top 15 at the time the games were played) just detracts from your credibility.

Tufts destroyed the number 2 team in the country at the tome Amherst and destroyed Ithaca. They are not kist beating but blowing out ranked team. Salisbury while 7 and 0 has not been nearly as dominate against ranked opponents. I am basing my assessment on the fact that they have scored 100 goals in 4 games and not even the top teams have been able to slow down that offense. Oh defensively they are pretty darn good too since a fair amount of goals against them have been in the 4Q when they are playing the less experience people.
[/quote]

It appears that you completely missed my point, so I’ll try again…

I am in no way diminishing what Tufts has shown so far this season. You may have missed where I stated in the previous post that they are a “formidable program“. But to declare any team the unequivocal, “100%” Champion (in any sport) after barely 1/4 of the season has been played, and simultaneously completely ignoring any and all accomplishments/potential of every other team in the sport, is simply asinine. Otherwise, why bother playing out the rest of the season and conducting any postseason tournaments? By your logic, we could just declare the champion in every sport after only playing a quarter of that sport’s season schedule, and save everyone a lot of time and money with the remainder of the regular season schedule and those silly tournaments at year end ... SMH ...

The comment about fourth-quarter scoring is also similarly narrow minded. The vast majority of all the goals that Salisbury has given up this year have also come in the fourth quarter, against their second and third team defenseman. Salisbury is also averaging 20 goals a game and could easily put up 25 to 30 per game except that Berkman shows more class and doesn’t feel the need to run up the score to cover any insecurities…

[The12lov3]

Dr P - first off i did not say they were 100% champs. What i did say was that the kids felt the NC was taken away from them. The team probably felt that they had a pretty good shot at winning the NC. Personally you are right, you have to win games to get there so i agree with you on that point. I do think that Tufts is the #1 team in the country based on who they beat and how much they beat them by. Let agree to disagree on this one. I respect Salisbury but dont think they coukd handle Tufts this year. I guess we will never know at this point since all NCAa sports will probably be cancelled soon.

[ergit]

The championship was taken from them, after only four games...
Hilarious.

[The12lov3]

Ergit,

At 20yo that is what you think my friend. I don't think that because you have to win games and win the championship game but I can almost bet the Tufts kids felt at though they had a good shot at winning it all this year and now they will never get that shot. That is my point with all of this.

I do think they are the #1 team in the country.

The12lov3

[The12lov3]

FYI - Does anyone know of any other teams that have put up 100 goals in 4 games? I would like to see how many times that has occurred.

[joe2123]

I will also say I believe at this point in time tufts was the #1 team in the country. I have watched live streams of both Salisbury and tufts. It would have been an amazing game for sure. If we did a break down on paper. Salisbury has a slight edge at the X. Defense give the nod to tufts, midfield edge goes to tufts as well. Emory wongus is legit, but not at the level of shanks and Samuelson. Attack would be even at this point. Ferrara and brendahl are the two best attackmen in the country with great supporting casts around them. Edge goes to tufts in cage with pollack over TJ.

Tufts just blew out an Ithaca team who just knocked off the defending national champs cabrini who oh btw beat Lynchburg as well just like Salisbury.

Tufts put up 100 shots against Ithaca and this team hadn’t even hit its full stride yet.

[boredatwork]

FYI - Does anyone know of any other teams that have put up 100 goals in 4 games? I would like to see how many times that has occurred.

Not exactly an "FYI" more of a question. And yes Colorado mesa scored exactly 100 between April 9-April 20th last year and didn't even complete one of the games! (52 in one game may have helped tilt the scale a bit)

[ShoreThingMD]

I will also say I believe at this point in time tufts was the #1 team in the country. I have watched live streams of both Salisbury and tufts. It would have been an amazing game for sure. If we did a break down on paper. Salisbury has a slight edge at the X. Defense give the nod to tufts, midfield edge goes to tufts as well. Emory wongus is legit, but not at the level of shanks and Samuelson. Attack would be even at this point. Ferrara and brendahl are the two best attackmen in the country with great supporting casts around them. Edge goes to tufts in cage with pollack over TJ.

Tufts just blew out an Ithaca team who just knocked off the defending national champs cabrini who oh btw beat Lynchburg as well just like Salisbury.

Tufts put up 100 shots against Ithaca and this team hadn’t even hit its full stride yet.

Excuse my bias, but I'm not sure if I'm ready to say Tufts has/had the better defense... Apgar & Murphy were both unanimous 1st team preseason all-Americans with SSDM Griek finding his way on the 2nd team. Gulls have played 3 ranked opponents in the top 20 and had only given up a total of 23 during those contests. By no means am I downplaying the Tufts defense, but my interest in this potential matchup was very much because of Tufts offense vs. Salisbury's defense. Not that any of this matters now....

[Unknown Participant]

[/quote]

It appears that you completely missed my point, so I’ll try again…

The comment about fourth-quarter scoring is also similarly narrow minded. The vast majority of all the goals that Salisbury has given up this year have also come in the fourth quarter, against their second and third team defenseman. Salisbury is also averaging 20 goals a game and could easily put up 25 to 30 per game except that Berkman shows more class and doesn’t feel the need to run up the score to cover any insecurities…
[/quote]

First, looking back at Salisbury's box scores v Stevens, Gburg, Lynchburg and Rhodes (slow day obv.) and the comment about vast majority of goals being scored in the 4th isn't even true (for those games).

Further, Salisbury was down 6-3 at the half v Stevens (on the road) and none of the games looked to be really out of reach for the opponent, other than Rhodes, until some point in the 4th.

Your comment about "insecurities" is just insulting. Other than the Amherst game, which was not out of reach until some point in the 4th, Tufts started clearing its bench and played everyone in the second halves against Springfield (all 5 goalies played) and Colby. As has been beaten to death on this board and LP, how do you tell your 2nd and 3rd stringers not to play hard when they get what might be their only shots?

In the last game, pretty much all the seniors played in the 4th knowing it was the last game, so studs like Pollack, Donahue, Shanks, Trieber etc. stayed in and all other seniors on the bench played, sometimes out of position.

[Lax3]

I have to admit - with a smile on my face - that I love the creativity of folks trying to figure out which team was going to - either 100%, or maybe, or probably - going to win it all given that games stopped on March 11th! Its hysterical but well intended or vice versa, well intended but hysterical. I feel badly for all of us not having anything to talk about other than hypotheticals!

[ah23]

In the last game, pretty much all the seniors played in the 4th knowing it was the last game, so studs like Pollack, Donahue, Shanks, Trieber etc. stayed in and all other seniors on the bench played, sometimes out of position.

Just to add context to this that others might miss: the fourth quarter was definitely about Tufts trying to get seniors their final PT, not run up the score.

- Jack Donahue did play the entire fourth quarter...but not on close D. He was on the offensive end (yes, in settled 6 v 6) because Tufts was trying to get him a goal. He actually had two crease shots (one BTB which would have been insane), both stonewalled by Robby Atwood (Ithaca's goalie, who played out of his mind and IMO singlehandedly kept Tufts from putting up 35+).

- Mason Pollack played the entire second half (as expected - Joe Theuer played the first half), but honestly he seemed more focused on trying to dangle and score than anything else (not a criticism FWIW). He had multiple one-man clears interrupted by loose ball whistles.

- The close defense for much of the fourth included Kyle Newman-Smith and Jonny Osman, two seniors who almost never play.

- Two of the goals were scored by Tristan Courtney, a senior who had two career goals entering the game. One was scored by Sean Trupo, a senior who had never scored for Tufts before.

As I've probably said before in this forum, I'm not a Tufts fan or alum or anything. Still great to see seniors getting PT and the bench getting to celebrate those guys on a pretty dispiriting night.

[ah23]

The comment about fourth-quarter scoring is also similarly narrow minded. The vast majority of all the goals that Salisbury has given up this year have also come in the fourth quarter, against their second and third team defenseman. Salisbury is also averaging 20 goals a game and could easily put up 25 to 30 per game except that Berkman shows more class and doesn’t feel the need to run up the score to cover any insecurities…

Speaking of insecurity. I can only speculate about how it feels when another team gets the early season coronation that Salisbury fans expect their team to get. Not a good look.

I have to address the arguments, because they are wrong on all counts and I have a pathological need to call BS out when I see it.

"The vast majority of all the goals that Salisbury has given up this year have also come in the fourth quarter, against their second and third team defenseman."

Fourth quarter goals allowed:

- Salisbury: 32.56% (14 goals out of 43 total)
- Tufts: 35.71% (15 goals out of 42 total)

Fourth quarter shots faced:

- Salisbury: 31.12% (61 shots out of 196 total)
- Tufts: 32.93% (54 shots out of 164 total)

Which team did you say was more impacted by letting off the gas in garbage time?

"Salisbury is also averaging 20 goals a game and could easily put up 25 to 30 per game except that Berkman shows more class and doesn’t feel the need to run up the score to cover any insecurities…"

Fourth quarter goal scoring in 2020:

- Salisbury: 24.53% (33 goals out of 134 total)
- Tufts: 20.00% (20 goals out of 100 total)

Fourth quarter shots taken

- Salisbury: 22.89% (87 shots out of 380 total)
- Tufts: 21.32% (68 shots out of 319 total)

Which team did you say was the one "showing more class" by not running up the score?

"Salisbury...could easily put up 25 to 30 per game"

Are they playing Berry every week? Then sure! Otherwise, not a chance in the world.

- Salisbury vs. unranked opponents: 23.25 GPG (93 goals in 4 games vs. Berry/Coast Guard/OWU/Rhodes)
- Salisbury vs. ranked opponents: 13.66 GPG (41 goals in 3 games vs. Lynchburg, Gettysburg, Stevens)

Anyone can score on cupcakes. Colby scored 27 goals against Husson earlier this year. That is irrelevant. Salisbury's offense having a ten-goal dropoff between ranked and unranked opponents tells us something.

But wait, let's be fair. Maybe Tufts suffered the same massive dropoff in scoring when they faced ranked opponents. Let's take a look.

- Tufts vs unranked opponents: 24.5 GPG (49 goals in 2 games vs. Colby/Springfield)
- Tufts vs. ranked opponents: 25.5 GPG (51 goals in 2 games vs. Amherst, Ithaca)

Whoops. Guess not.

Let's keep going with this. Maybe Salisbury just has been the only team to figure out some of the country's best defenses! Maybe 13.66 GPG against their slate is actually super impressive!

- Lynchburg has played three other ranked teams this year. Both F&M (19) and Cabrini (17) scored more against the Hornets than Salisbury (16) did.
- Stevens has played one other team that was ranked (at the time) - Dickinson. Dickinson scored 13 on Stevens; Salisbury scored 14.
- Gettysburg has faced three other ranked teams this year. W&L scored the same amount as Salisbury did (11). Stevenson (5) and York (6) both scored less.

Hmm. So Salisbury's offense truly doesn't stand out when compared to other ranked teams.

Yet again, let's try to play both sides here. Maybe Tufts wasn't doing anything special. Maybe they were just beating up on bad defenses who had been lit up by other teams too!

Colby goals allowed: 3, 19, 24 (Tufts). Non-Tufts avg.: 11.00 gaa
Springfield goals allowed: 14, 14, 16, 25 (Tufts). Non-Tufts avg.: 14.66 gaa
Amherst goals allowed: 8, 8, 9, 25 (Tufts). Non-Tufts avg.: 8.33 gaa
Ithaca goals allowed: 5, 9, 12, 18, 26 (Tufts). Non-Tufts avg.: 11.00 gaa

Ah. Nope. Not even close.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Look. Salisbury is obviously a great team and a great program. I do the weekly FanLax forum poll, and I had the Gulls ranked #1...until this week, when Tufts showed that they are capable of blowing top five title contenders off the field like a midseason tuneup. No one else in the country has shown anything close to that ability. I don't have any doubts that Salisbury is/was (we'll see what happens with the season) the second-best team in the country this year, but the gap between Tufts and everyone else - even given the small sample size - looked significant.

[SixBySix]

Probably the biggest flaw with the "Tufts should be #1" argument is that Amherst didn't have time to show that they deserved the #2 spot. Two weeks from now, the strength of resume would be much more comparable. If the Mammoth held serve against Bates, Cortland, and RIT while Tufts continued to look dominant against Stevens and Gettysburg, I have to imagine they would be at least splitting the #1 votes.

[isaacwright22]

Don’t be surprised if you see some gnarly news about some ac players and post game activities that recently took place