DARTMOUTH 2020

[FannOLax]

However many "jabronis" there were, there were always more of us non-Dartmouth Ivy League alums and supporters wanting to see the Big Green improve. Please count me as very happy about the Big Green's improvement, and how it is now being reflected in the Wins column. The League is looking very strong right now, but that elusive Dartmouth IL win will come and taste sweet for many.

[NEWestFan]

Just maybe it's time to drill back into the LaxPower archives and call out all the jabronis who saw no future for the Dartmouth program under Coach C.
A certain Brunswick poster, a scorned mother of an insubordinate player, and the suspiciously named "Pitbull" come to mind. There were MANY others if the 2016, 2017, and 2018 threads could be sourced. Not sure if the 2020 season will play out as an outstanding reversal, but those who were willing to hang with the process can now bring much more optimism to each week of Dartmouth lacrosse.

GBG

Check sticks, I would bet you that a quick search of the Brunswick name within this forum and its laxpower predecessor (if possible) would tell you that no one has mentioned that school more than you. I have no idea what your history or beef is with that program (or for that matter its posters) but I would recommend that instead of calling critics jabronis, that you and the Friends of Dartmouth Lacrosse move on and try to figure out why the Dartmouth/Brunswick relationship (or for that matter the relationship with the broader Fairfield County area) is as broken as it is. Because it is REALLY broken. Now you can choose not to care, or call me a Brunswick jabroni, but as a fan of NEWest, The IVY League and Dartmouth, I simply don't understand why you wouldn't want to tap the same qualified pool (athletically, academically, financially) that is feeding so many of your competitors.
-There are 9 WICK players currently on IVY rosters with 7 more coming in the next two years. (Dartmouth 1 current, 1 next year)
- More importantly, 5 of these players have green blood, one double green, D has whiffed "looking" (i.e. didn't even swing) on 3 of them.

That should raise some questions.

[MDlaxfan76]

Just maybe it's time to drill back into the LaxPower archives and call out all the jabronis who saw no future for the Dartmouth program under Coach C.
A certain Brunswick poster, a scorned mother of an insubordinate player, and the suspiciously named "Pitbull" come to mind. There were MANY others if the 2016, 2017, and 2018 threads could be sourced. Not sure if the 2020 season will play out as an outstanding reversal, but those who were willing to hang with the process can now bring much more optimism to each week of Dartmouth lacrosse.

GBG

Check sticks, I would bet you that a quick search of the Brunswick name within this forum and its laxpower predecessor (if possible) would tell you that no one has mentioned that school more than you. I have no idea what your history or beef is with that program (or for that matter its posters) but I would recommend that instead of calling critics jabronis, that you and the Friends of Dartmouth Lacrosse move on and try to figure out why the Dartmouth/Brunswick relationship (or for that matter the relationship with the broader Fairfield County area) is as broken as it is. Because it is REALLY broken. Now you can choose not to care, or call me a Brunswick jabroni, but as a fan of NEWest, The IVY League and Dartmouth, I simply don't understand why you wouldn't want to tap the same qualified pool (athletically, academically, financially) that is feeding so many of your competitors.
-There are 9 WICK players currently on IVY rosters with 7 more coming in the next two years. (Dartmouth 1 current, 1 next year)
- More importantly, 5 of these players have green blood, one double green, D has whiffed "looking" (i.e. didn't even swing) on 3 of them.

That should raise some questions.

NEWestfan,
I agree re "jabronis" if referencing those from a particular school or area, but I do understand about the sentiment as reference to some downright 'trolls' who seemed to delight in kicking Dartmouth when down.

On the more substantive matter, I'll bite: Please illuminate us as to exactly how, why, who, when, where etc "the relationship with the broader Fairfield County area) is as broken as it is" occurred and what would be necessary to 'repair it'.

Please be very specific as to the cause of the issue and the necessary path to an improved relationship.

[check sticks]

NEWestfan,
I agree re "jabronis" if referencing those from a particular school or area, but I do understand about the sentiment as reference to some downright 'trolls' who seemed to delight in kicking Dartmouth when down.

On the more substantive matter, I'll bite: Please illuminate us as to exactly how, why, who, when, where etc "the relationship with the broader Fairfield County area) is as broken as it is" occurred and what would be necessary to 'repair it'.

Please be very specific as to the cause of the issue and the necessary path to an improved relationship.

NEWF....stop...read the words. No indictment of a particular school, just the more egregious individuals who simply could NOT fathom Coach Callahan as bringing success to Dartmouth lacrosse. MDLax has grasped the correct meaning of the post ! I would love to march out a laundry list of "trolls" who regularly spewed venom, particularly 2016-2018.

Brunswick has actually sourced some fine players to Hanover in past few years. Meacham, Heidts (x2), and Tucker Brown to be specific. And the Brown story could have been VERY sour after he was cut his frosh year (with two legacy Dartmouth parents). But to Tucker's credit, he made the necessary changes and became a very active player rejoining the Dartmouth team for his Soph/Jr/Sr campaigns.

Callahan has surely invited his criticisms for burned bridges. I acknowledge that. The most hurtful being the Big Green of Deerfield Academy, which used to be a regular pipeline.

As they say, one door closes and another opens. I hope that Callahan will continue to surround himself with staff and players understanding the process of the ongoing reversal to the Dartmouth lacrosse program. Whether or not players SPECIFICALLY come from Fairfield County is something that can be discussed, but its not integral to the big picture.

[MDlaxfan76]

+1

[RumorMill]

Can always go ask the Hopkins thread what they think...?

[Voyuer]

Simply put if Dartmouth lax does not have at least 2 players from Fairfield county per class, something is wrong. Dartmouth had 5 Darien kids on one team back in the 90’s. Yes that was to many, But drive around Fairfield county and count the D stickers, and given the talent pool explain why Dartmouth has been absent recruiting there?? I don’t know the answer. Beat St John’s and compete like Bryant Did at UNC!!

[Typical Lax Dad]

Simply put if Dartmouth lax does not have at least 2 players from Fairfield county per class, something is wrong. Dartmouth had 5 Darien kids on one team back in the 90’s. Yes that was to many, But drive around Fairfield county and count the D stickers, and given the talent pool explain why Dartmouth has been absent recruiting there?? I don’t know the answer. Beat St John’s and compete like Bryant Did at UNC!!

Seems like it would be a natural place to recruit.

[Ghost]

Wait what?? (Voyeur) I’m a relative fan of most posts, but
...when, where, and whom, ever anointed Fairfield County as an absolute, stand out, Lax hot bed??

Gotta Say, in light of Dartmouth’s obvious recent strides with acquiring more talented & athletic players,
It seams like a real stretch, if not, outright knit picking,
For you to highlight, lack of Fairfield county recruits, as if it is some sort of given gold standard barometer, of DC’s recruiting efforts... (excluding “the 5 Darien kids from the 90’s) - and the 3 or 4 other exceptions your bound to rattle off...

FYI - Dartmouth’s UNC trip Cancelled
But it took UNC winning almost 80% FOs to Beat Bryant by only 2 at home

[Atticus]

Ghost - on UNC trip cancellation, seems like you have info that even the team does not yet have. What is your source?

[jhu08]

Ghost - on UNC trip cancellation, seems like you have info that even the team does not yet have. What is your source?

Wondering the same. There has been no announcement of this from any official channel. Not saying ghost is wrong, I know there are a few actual insiders on here.

[Atticus]

Agreed he may be right, but no announcement yet. Dartmouth has said no travel to states that have declared emergency (and NC did yesterday), but that would also mean no games at Harvard or Brown, and probably others. The state of emergency standard may need to be revisited as this is declared for reasons other than particular risk of travel to the state. I assume many more states will declare in next few days.

[MDlaxfan76]

I think we're very likely looking at the end of the season quite soon.

NESCAC just cancelled all spring sports conference championship events; several of their schools have suspended or cancelled seasons altogether.

https://www.d3sports.com/notables/2020/ ... for-spring

Hugely disappointing, of course, to the athletes, but this thing is going to get considerably worse before it gets better.

With 'better' not likely until May at best.

No inside information on this.

I think we'd all been hoping that outside sports events might be able to continue, but looks like schools are going to send everybody home, with online classes.

[NEWestFan]

On the more substantive matter, I'll bite: Please illuminate us as to exactly how, why, who, when, where etc "the relationship with the broader Fairfield County area) is as broken as it is" occurred and what would be necessary to 'repair it'.

Please be very specific as to the cause of the issue and the necessary path to an improved relationship.

MD, CS. Although I don't frequent this forum, I am neither a troll or jabroni. I am also not necessarily an outsider and may be a lot closer to this situation than you might think and I would appreciate being read as well. CS - my point was that you mention Brunswick quite a bit, which you do, and usually in the context of a certain negative Brunswick poster and not so much in the context of other NEWest and Brunswick fans (including myself) who are actually trying to be constructive for both programs. The fact of the matter is and the base for a lot of these posts has been the FACT that Dartmouth's relationship with Brunswick, NEWest and the FCIAC has deteriorated under BC and is nowhere near where it was, has been or should be.

Why should be? Is Fairfield County a hotbed (Ghost)?. When you have two perennial top 10 HS programs 10 miles from each other and often 3 to 4 top 25 teams in the same circle, it's certainly a hotspot. CT is the geographical center of all of the IVY schools (easy sell to players and parents), has abundant athletic/academic content (think at a minimum AI boosters), has financially capable kids (if not development candidates), and lastly often legacies or those associated with one of/if not the largest IVY alumni pool in the country.

I'm not saying CT is a superior fit, just a perfect fit. I would make many of the same arguments for the ISL and MIAA/IAC where it seems to be working somewhat better.

MD - I could get into all sort of specific examples but I don't think that is appropriate for a public forum or fair to the people involved. Beyond the WICK numbers, I would give as evidence the fact that there are currently 30 players in the IVY's from CT, with a high of 7 at both Penn and Brown. D has 1. I would also point to the crazy number of D legacies from the region who are suiting up for other IVY's. Bridges have been burned with the Coaches, Parents and Alumni in the region and this extends beyond BC. Not sure BC is crafting the message (perhaps this is the epicenter of the anti Towers blowback) but he and HS have certainly delivered the message. I suggest that D moves on and starts a complete reboot under JC, who had great success at B with CT content.

[MDlaxfan76]

On the more substantive matter, I'll bite: Please illuminate us as to exactly how, why, who, when, where etc "the relationship with the broader Fairfield County area) is as broken as it is" occurred and what would be necessary to 'repair it'.

Please be very specific as to the cause of the issue and the necessary path to an improved relationship.

MD, CS. Although I don't frequent this forum, I am neither a troll or jabroni. I am also not necessarily an outsider and may be a lot closer to this situation than you might think and I would appreciate being read as well. CS - my point was that you mention Brunswick quite a bit, which you do, and usually in the context of a certain negative Brunswick poster and not so much in the context of other NEWest and Brunswick fans (including myself) who are actually trying to be constructive for both programs. The fact of the matter is and the base for a lot of these posts has been the FACT that Dartmouth's relationship with Brunswick, NEWest and the FCIAC has deteriorated under BC and is nowhere near where it was, has been or should be.

Why should be? Is Fairfield County a hotbed (Ghost)?. When you have two perennial top 10 HS programs 10 miles from each other and often 3 to 4 top 25 teams in the same circle, it's certainly a hotspot. CT is the geographical center of all of the IVY schools (easy sell to players and parents), has abundant athletic/academic content (think at a minimum AI boosters), has financially capable kids (if not development candidates), and lastly often legacies or those associated with one of/if not the largest IVY alumni pool in the country.

I'm not saying CT is a superior fit, just a perfect fit. I would make many of the same arguments for the ISL and MIAA/IAC where it seems to be working somewhat better.

MD - I could get into all sort of specific examples but I don't think that is appropriate for a public forum or fair to the people involved. Beyond the WICK numbers, I would give as evidence the fact that there are currently 30 players in the IVY's from CT, with a high of 7 at both Penn and Brown. D has 1. I would also point to the crazy number of D legacies from the region who are suiting up for other IVY's. Bridges have been burned with the Coaches, Parents and Alumni in the region and this extends beyond BC. Not sure BC is crafting the message (perhaps this is the epicenter of the anti Towers blowback) but he and HS have certainly delivered the message. I suggest that D moves on and starts a complete reboot under JC, who had great success at B with CT content.

Hi NEWestfan,
Yes, I think CS was speaking about those who actually are/were "trolls" and "jabronis", not referencing you.

Feel free to PM me for further insights not appropriate for public forum in your view.
I'm on the Friends Board and though my weight is minimal, I do care.

I'm way down in Baltimore, so don't have the sort of local insight that you do re Fairfield County, but I do have a sense of the gap between MIAA placement in the Ivies and the relatively little at Dartmouth this past decade. That said, never been a high number of us, really always just a trickle. My son went to Harvard from Gilman, though one of his HS classmates did go to Hanover and played, son of my captain year ahead of me. Brutal under Towers, improved under Callahan. Two Gilman boys next year headed to Harvard, two to Yale. I expect them all to play. Gilman kids starting as freshmen at Penn and Yale this year, multiple Boy's Latin and McDonogh. Lots of others in the Ivy ranks from St. Mary's, Loyola, etc. Can't think of any from Calvert Hall, but someone may correct me.

Here's the thing, I'm sure that Coach Callahan would love to build a pipeline at Gilman and McDonogh, for instance. High lax IQ, very strong academic backgrounds, etc. I'm not so sure, however, that Towers was interested in doing so. One of his assistants, for instance, made a classic mistake during a college tour of a Gilman kid of bad mouthing, foully, "private school pu___ies", thinking the son, like the dad, had gone to a public school. He wanted, bigger, tougher, meaner players...Idiot.

But those guys did recruit some guys from Fairfield County. And yes, some of those were caught up in the 'culture change' in the coaching turnover. There definitely was a sense that too many of those guys (and I don't mean specifically the NE West guys), were not fully committed to playing ball, more interested in partying.

I would agree that our Associate Head Coach probably has the best inroads for those handful of schools. I'm sure that all of our coaches, including Brendan, would be more than happy to attract really good players, with strong academic qualifications, and the kind of hungry commitment the program is seeking. Of course, winning those guys over, those with lots of choices, will be helped by the improved trajectory of the program we appear to be experiencing.

Forward steps.

[socalref]

Hoping Saturday vs St John's is played. Looking forward to watching what Mitch Meyers does at the faceoff x.

[MDlaxfan76]

Unfortunate, but predictable.

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... e-56040213

[Ghost]

[quote=MDlaxfan76 post_id=120776 time=<a href="tel:1583876099">1583876099</a> user_id=313]

On the more substantive matter, I'll bite: Please illuminate us as to exactly how, why, who, when, where etc "the relationship with the broader Fairfield County area) is as broken as it is" occurred and what would be necessary to 'repair it'.

Please be very specific as to the cause of the issue and the necessary path to an improved relationship.

MD, CS. Although I don't frequent this forum, I am neither a troll or jabroni. I am also not necessarily an outsider and may be a lot closer to this situation than you might think and I would appreciate being read as well. CS - my point was that you mention Brunswick quite a bit, which you do, and usually in the context of a certain negative Brunswick poster and not so much in the context of other NEWest and Brunswick fans (including myself) who are actually trying to be constructive for both programs. The fact of the matter is and the base for a lot of these posts has been the FACT that Dartmouth's relationship with Brunswick, NEWest and the FCIAC has deteriorated under BC and is nowhere near where it was, has been or should be.

Why should be? Is Fairfield County a hotbed (Ghost)?. When you have two perennial top 10 HS programs 10 miles from each other and often 3 to 4 top 25 teams in the same circle, it's certainly a hotspot. CT is the geographical center of all of the IVY schools (easy sell to players and parents), has abundant athletic/academic content (think at a minimum AI boosters), has financially capable kids (if not development candidates), and lastly often legacies or those associated with one of/if not the largest IVY alumni pool in the country.

I'm not saying CT is a superior fit, just a perfect fit. I would make many of the same arguments for the ISL and MIAA/IAC where it seems to be working somewhat better.

MD - I could get into all sort of specific examples but I don't think that is appropriate for a public forum or fair to the people involved. Beyond the WICK numbers, I would give as evidence the fact that there are currently 30 players in the IVY's from CT, with a high of 7 at both Penn and Brown. D has 1. I would also point to the crazy number of D legacies from the region who are suiting up for other IVY's. Bridges have been burned with the Coaches, Parents and Alumni in the region and this extends beyond BC. Not sure BC is crafting the message (perhaps this is the epicenter of the anti Towers blowback) but he and HS have certainly delivered the message. I suggest that D moves on and starts a complete reboot under JC, who had great success at B with CT content.
[/quote]

On the more substantive matter, I'll bite: Please illuminate us as to exactly how, why, who, when, where etc "the relationship with the broader Fairfield County area) is as broken as it is" occurred and what would be necessary to 'repair it'.

Please be very specific as to the cause of the issue and the necessary path to an improved relationship.

MD, CS. Although I don't frequent this forum, I am neither a troll or jabroni. I am also not necessarily an outsider and may be a lot closer to this situation than you might think and I would appreciate being read as well. CS - my point was that you mention Brunswick quite a bit, which you do, and usually in the context of a certain negative Brunswick poster and not so much in the context of other NEWest and Brunswick fans (including myself) who are actually trying to be constructive for both programs. The fact of the matter is and the base for a lot of these posts has been the FACT that Dartmouth's relationship with Brunswick, NEWest and the FCIAC has deteriorated under BC and is nowhere near where it was, has been or should be.

Why should be? Is Fairfield County a hotbed (Ghost)?. When you have two perennial top 10 HS programs 10 miles from each other and often 3 to 4 top 25 teams in the same circle, it's certainly a hotspot. CT is the geographical center of all of the IVY schools (easy sell to players and parents), has abundant athletic/academic content (think at a minimum AI boosters), has financially capable kids (if not development candidates), and lastly often legacies or those associated with one of/if not the largest IVY alumni pool in the country.

I'm not saying CT is a superior fit, just a perfect fit. I would make many of the same arguments for the ISL and MIAA/IAC where it seems to be working somewhat better.

MD - I could get into all sort of specific examples but I don't think that is appropriate for a public forum or fair to the people involved. Beyond the WICK numbers, I would give as evidence the fact that there are currently 30 players in the IVY's from CT, with a high of 7 at both Penn and Brown. D has 1. I would also point to the crazy number of D legacies from the region who are suiting up for other IVY's. Bridges have been burned with the Coaches, Parents and Alumni in the region and this extends beyond BC. Not sure BC is crafting the message (perhaps this is the epicenter of the anti Towers blowback) but he and HS have certainly delivered the message. I suggest that D moves on and starts a complete reboot under JC, who had great success at B with CT content.

Hi NEWestfan,
Yes, I think CS was speaking about those who actually are/were "trolls" and "jabronis", not referencing you.

Feel free to PM me for further insights not appropriate for public forum in your view.
I'm on the Friends Board and though my weight is minimal, I do care.

I'm way down in Baltimore, so don't have the sort of local insight that you do re Fairfield County, but I do have a sense of the gap between MIAA placement in the Ivies and the relatively little at Dartmouth this past decade. That said, never been a high number of us, really always just a trickle. My son went to Harvard from Gilman, though one of his HS classmates did go to Hanover and played, son of my captain year ahead of me. Brutal under Towers, improved under Callahan. Two Gilman boys next year headed to Harvard, two to Yale. I expect them all to play. Gilman kids starting as freshmen at Penn and Yale this year, multiple Boy's Latin and McDonogh. Lots of others in the Ivy ranks from St. Mary's, Loyola, etc. Can't think of any from Calvert Hall, but someone may correct me.

Here's the thing, I'm sure that Coach Callahan would love to build a pipeline at Gilman and McDonogh, for instance. High lax IQ, very strong academic backgrounds, etc. I'm not so sure, however, that Towers was interested in doing so. One of his assistants, for instance, made a classic mistake during a college tour of a Gilman kid of bad mouthing, foully, "private school pu___ies", thinking the son, like the dad, had gone to a public school. He wanted, bigger, tougher, meaner players...Idiot.

But those guys did recruit some guys from Fairfield County. And yes, some of those were caught up in the 'culture change' in the coaching turnover. There definitely was a sense that too many of those guys (and I don't mean specifically the NE West guys), were not fully committed to playing ball, more interested in partying.

I would agree that our Associate Head Coach probably has the best inroads for those handful of schools. I'm sure that all of our coaches, including Brendan, would be more than happy to attract really good players, with strong academic qualifications, and the kind of hungry commitment the program is seeking. Of course, winning those guys over, those with lots of choices, will be helped by the improved trajectory of the program we appear to be experiencing.

Forward steps.

MD and Newest - So it seems that HS and Prep Coaches from a certain region got their feathers ruffled??

The idea that these HS and/or Prep Coaches require ego stroked by any D1 Coach, let alone, of one of the most prestigious academic institutions on the globe, is Not Only Absurd... but vindictive and short sided...

Please can you remind these HS coaches, that their players are the one getting lost in this feud...

Lacrosse Recruiting dynamics have drastically transformed, even in last 3 yrs,
HS coaches’ recruiting role is diminished, and PG coaches, even less...

Good Payers are now found everywhere, not just LI, Maryland, or even Fairfield County.
College Coaches hold the cards - new vid technology, social media, showcase, elite club tournaments, and Coaches camps, all favor the College coach!

HS players are trying to get recruited by college programs, Not the other way around.

[MDlaxfan76]

I agree with you, Ghost, on much of this.

Certainly there are lots of good players, lots with the appetite and credentials necessary for an Ivy-level admission slot.
We certainly don't need any particular area in order to build a successful program in Hanover.
On the other hand, we don't want to alienate any particular kids based on what school they attended.
Pretty sure our coaches would agree!

I also agree that it would be a real disservice to the kids for any HS or club coaches to steer kids away from Dartmouth because they got their nose out of joint in the turnover between Towers and Callahan. Or due to Callahan's rather tough-minded philosophy as he tried to build a new culture. Plenty perhaps to critique (and I have) about how Brendan went about that process, as he may well have been impolitic at times, but what we do know is that he was passionate about needing to make those changes. And he had the support of the Dartmouth AD and Administration as well as the vast majority of alums, particularly those closest to the program.

So, I agree as to the question as to what it says about a high school or club coach or 'parents' who are steering kids away from Dartmouth because they don't like Callahan. IMO, that makes them the jerk.

That said, I really question whether there's more than a handful of such people of influence out there with those sorts of motivations. There will always be some jerks and "jabronis"

I think the challenge is more about demonstrating that playing lacrosse at Dartmouth versus at another Ivy or high academic alternative is a happy experience. Which of course includes being able to expect to win games against top competition, ideally to have a path to the NCAA's, etc. For some hungry players it may also include the opportunity to be a major impact player at a program on the rise.

Most importantly can a player expect to make lifelong friendships with guys they really like, forged in a common cause?

Of course, some guys will prefer to go to a city oriented school or a larger university rather than an experience in Hanover. That's cool. But those of us who did choose to go to Dartmouth undoubtedly appreciate the special dynamics of the place. That's who we need to attract.

[Voyuer]

OK if you do not know Fairfield County, is a hotbed of lax, then you don't know, but believe me when I say it is. Besides the public schools, who you should know, it feeds Brunswick, Fairfield Prep and half of the NEW players. This is coming from someone who has an MIAA background, and is still involved with an MIAA program. I have seen both areas up close and personal, and I know for a fact Fairfield County should be a much easier place for Dartmouth to recruit.