All things Chinese CoronaVirus

[jhu72]

Maybe vodka is the cure.

If so, I'd rather have the disease.

[old salt]

Winston Churchill

"I didn't know people died from the flu."

How do you go through life and not know that? The guy is a moron.

He is well beyond just a moron....more like a thermonuclear moron. Sometime during that episode he literally wet his pants.
His alleged Saudi pals just threw him under the bus, too.

Sorry, what? He urinated in his khakis?

The Russian troll farm has nothing on you ladies.

[seacoaster]

Winston Churchill

"I didn't know people died from the flu."

How do you go through life and not know that? The guy is a moron.

He is well beyond just a moron....more like a thermonuclear moron. Sometime during that episode he literally wet his pants.
His alleged Saudi pals just threw him under the bus, too.

Sorry, what? He urinated in his khakis?

The Russian troll farm has nothing on you ladies.

Thanks. I am merely asking the question. Jeez.

[youthathletics]

Maybe vodka is the cure.

If so, I'd rather have the disease.

Figures.

[Kismet]

Winston Churchill

"I didn't know people died from the flu."

How do you go through life and not know that? The guy is a moron.

He is well beyond just a moron....more like a thermonuclear moron. Sometime during that episode he literally wet his pants.
His alleged Saudi pals just threw him under the bus, too.

Sorry, what? He urinated in his khakis?

search "Diaper Don" on Twitter - multiple still photos at CDC shot from behind (not like the videos shot from in front) showing what appears to be a large wet spot on his khakis

Twitter also just tagged a Biden video tweet from his campaign as "doctored" per their new policy.

[kramerica.inc]

Maybe vodka is the cure.

If so, I'd rather have the disease.

Figures.

Beware of teetotalers.

[ggait]

How come the CDC isn't recommending that people in gathering places use some kind of disposable or washable cloth/paper/plastic covering on their hands and face? Seems like that would be quite easy, cheap and effective. And less disruptive than widespread closings of schools and workplaces.

I'm not talking about 95% masks and health worker isolation gear. But just some kind of physical barrier (and visible reminder) to disrupt some percentage of the possible transmissions.

The biggest effect probably would be the mindfulness and habit breaking impact. The average person by habit touches their face with their hands several hundred times a day. So just telling people "don't do that!" is pretty weak sauce to modify behavior. And how many times a day are most people really going to wash their hands?

While the barriers might not totally keep me from getting infected, they should be pretty effective to prevent me from infecting you. And since we don't know who is/is not infected, why not do that in classrooms, conferences, arenas and airplanes? It would look weird, but the weird look would help reinforce the message.

What am I missing?

[jhu72]

Tee is fine, pure ethanol is something else. You guys can have my share of the Vodka. I'll stick with Corona. Blue Moon, etc.

[ggait]

Maybe vodka is the cure.

Has to be at least 120 proof. So my Wild Turkey 101 is no good. Corona beer also no good. But Everclear would do the trick.

[old salt]

Winston Churchill

"I didn't know people died from the flu."

How do you go through life and not know that? The guy is a moron.

He is well beyond just a moron....more like a thermonuclear moron. Sometime during that episode he literally wet his pants.
His alleged Saudi pals just threw him under the bus, too.

Sorry, what? He urinated in his khakis?

search "Diaper Don" on Twitter - multiple still photos at CDC shot from behind (not like the videos shot from in front) showing what appears to be a large wet spot on his khakis

Twitter also just tagged a Biden video tweet from his campaign as "doctored" per their new policy.

Right. I did that after your original tasteless post.
Nice work Comrade Trollski

[Kismet]

Winston Churchill

"I didn't know people died from the flu."

How do you go through life and not know that? The guy is a moron.

He is well beyond just a moron....more like a thermonuclear moron. Sometime during that episode he literally wet his pants.
His alleged Saudi pals just threw him under the bus, too.

Sorry, what? He urinated in his khakis?

search "Diaper Don" on Twitter - multiple still photos at CDC shot from behind (not like the videos shot from in front) showing what appears to be a large wet spot on his khakis

Twitter also just tagged a Biden video tweet from his campaign as "doctored" per their new policy.

Right. I did that after your original tasteless post.
Nice work Comrade Trollski

DOPUS needing a diaper change is the least of his problems.
Takes a Trollski to claim to know one

[Bart]

How come the CDC isn't recommending that people in gathering places use some kind of disposable or washable cloth/paper/plastic covering on their hands and face? Seems like that would be quite easy, cheap and effective. And less disruptive than widespread closings of schools and workplaces.

I'm not talking about 95% masks and health worker isolation gear. But just some kind of physical barrier (and visible reminder) to disrupt some percentage of the possible transmissions.

The biggest effect probably would be the mindfulness and habit breaking impact. The average person by habit touches their face with their hands several hundred times a day. So just telling people "don't do that!" is pretty weak sauce to modify behavior. And how many times a day are most people really going to wash their hands?

While the barriers might not totally keep me from getting infected, they should be pretty effective to prevent me from infecting you. And since we don't know who is/is not infected, why not do that in classrooms, conferences, arenas and airplanes? It would look weird, but the weird look would help reinforce the message.

What am I missing?

I think it is a function of supply.

[Kismet]

Copying this over from schools closing thread in MD1 forum - some excellent information from soneone with some first hand knowledge of the subject

pcowlax wrote: "I really try to stick to lax on here but felt compelled to jump in here based on some of the above posts. To get it out of the way I am not an ID doc but I am a physician along with a PhD in biostatistics and epidemiology so I have some familiarity with both the bug and its propagation. The posts dismissing this as some media creation or PC hysteria (and god knows I hate PC hysteria, let's just say Bernie/Biden are not my bag) are incredibly ignorant. The severity of this virus was evident very quickly based on the Chinese response to it. Totalitarian dictatorship that they are, their actions were most certainly not driven by the media. Their rapid quarantining (after the initial coverup) of tens of millions, which led to a massive economic hit on their own country, showed definitively for those with the eyes to see that this was something new under the sun. They did nothing like this for SARS, bird flu, H1N1, etc. Those who try to dismiss this with comparisons to Ebola are so ignorant as to barely warrant a response. Ebola is, in the vast majority of cases, transmitted via bodily fluid. Corona is a highly contagious respiratory virus. Saying that Ebola was hyped and didn't spread so therefore this is overhyped is to say that cats have fur because peanut butter is sticky. Similarly those who dismiss this because it has "only" a 2% mortality or because of how many few patients it has killed relative to influenza are insane. First, WHO is currently saying 3.4%. I think that is wrong and I think it is even less than 2%, lets say 1.5%. The "flu" has a mortality most years of between 0.05 and 0.1%. This is about 20-40x more lethal. In the elderly (who, as someone said above, still count) it seems to be approaching 10-15%. A high R0 respiratory virus with mortality of 10% in the overall population would be the end of civilization, at least for the short term. This is not that but even 2% is a black swan virus. Even if it was only 0.1%, the same as the flu (which it is not)....this outbreak would be as though there had never been the flu before. What if the flu, which kills hundreds of thousands around the world, just appeared for the first time ever? It would be dismissed because, initially, it had "only" killed a few thousand. This is extremely serious. That said, it obviously is not Captain Trips. The vast majority of people who catch it will be fine and most will barely even be very ill. The disruptions on society however are teetering on the edge of massive. If, in two weeks, it is still spreading in the US (and it is much wider spread than appreciated due to the pathetic lack of test kits), I think everything may be cancelled, lax, NBA, movies, schools, Broadway, etc. Look at Italy, Japan and South Korea. Massive, draconian quarantine and closure of public events can work but plays havoc on a society and its economy. I sold a few weeks ago. Hopefully it will just blow over when the weather warms. But watch games this spring while you can. This may be the one thing that can put Hopkins out of its misery."

[ggait]

I think it is a function of supply.

I'm not talking about high level medical equipment. I'm talking about behavior modification and social distancing.

Suppose you get everyone to tie a bandana over their face (bank robber style). That would limit the chance of my sneeze spray (which can travel 3-5 feet with no barrier) from infecting you. And would also reduce the amount of my own hand/mouth and hand/nose contacts. Which is how my virus gets to you and how your virus get to me. Also would be a visible reminder to me and everyone who sees me.

Why isn't that better than just telling me to never touch my face and constantly wash my hands.

[Bart]

I think it is a function of supply.

I'm not talking about high level medical equipment. I'm talking about behavior modification.

Suppose you get everyone to tie a bandana over their face (bank robber style). That would limit the chance of my sneeze spray from infecting you. And would also reduce the amount of my own hand/mouth and hand/nose contacts. Which is how my virus gets to you and how your virus get to me. Also would be a visible reminder to me and everyone who sees me.

Why isn't that better than just telling me to never touch my face and constantly wash my hands.

Was not talking about high level medical equipment. I do know a medical professional working in a hospital extremely well that indicated they took all the extra "simple" masks out of her department. They are worried about supply.

What you say makes perfect sense and would probably help tremendously but we can not even keep people who have tested positive to stay home. You think people are going to walk around with masks on? After all, it is just a cold........right? At times we are our own worst enemy.

[jhu72]

Copying this over from schools closing thread in MD1 forum - some excellent information from soneone with some first hand knowledge of the subject

pcowlax wrote: "I really try to stick to lax on here but felt compelled to jump in here based on some of the above posts. To get it out of the way I am not an ID doc but I am a physician along with a PhD in biostatistics and epidemiology so I have some familiarity with both the bug and its propagation. The posts dismissing this as some media creation or PC hysteria (and god knows I hate PC hysteria, let's just say Bernie/Biden are not my bag) are incredibly ignorant. The severity of this virus was evident very quickly based on the Chinese response to it. Totalitarian dictatorship that they are, their actions were most certainly not driven by the media. Their rapid quarantining (after the initial coverup) of tens of millions, which led to a massive economic hit on their own country, showed definitively for those with the eyes to see that this was something new under the sun. They did nothing like this for SARS, bird flu, H1N1, etc. Those who try to dismiss this with comparisons to Ebola are so ignorant as to barely warrant a response. Ebola is, in the vast majority of cases, transmitted via bodily fluid. Corona is a highly contagious respiratory virus. Saying that Ebola was hyped and didn't spread so therefore this is overhyped is to say that cats have fur because peanut butter is sticky. Similarly those who dismiss this because it has "only" a 2% mortality or because of how many few patients it has killed relative to influenza are insane. First, WHO is currently saying 3.4%. I think that is wrong and I think it is even less than 2%, lets say 1.5%. The "flu" has a mortality most years of between 0.05 and 0.1%. This is about 20-40x more lethal. In the elderly (who, as someone said above, still count) it seems to be approaching 10-15%. A high R0 respiratory virus with mortality of 10% in the overall population would be the end of civilization, at least for the short term. This is not that but even 2% is a black swan virus. Even if it was only 0.1%, the same as the flu (which it is not)....this outbreak would be as though there had never been the flu before. What if the flu, which kills hundreds of thousands around the world, just appeared for the first time ever? It would be dismissed because, initially, it had "only" killed a few thousand. This is extremely serious. That said, it obviously is not Captain Trips. The vast majority of people who catch it will be fine and most will barely even be very ill. The disruptions on society however are teetering on the edge of massive. If, in two weeks, it is still spreading in the US (and it is much wider spread than appreciated due to the pathetic lack of test kits), I think everything may be cancelled, lax, NBA, movies, schools, Broadway, etc. Look at Italy, Japan and South Korea. Massive, draconian quarantine and closure of public events can work but plays havoc on a society and its economy. I sold a few weeks ago. Hopefully it will just blow over when the weather warms. But watch games this spring while you can. This may be the one thing that can put Hopkins out of its misery."

Thank you. Had not seen this. Another for real scientist that knows what he is talking about.

[jhu72]

I think it is a function of supply.

I'm not talking about high level medical equipment. I'm talking about behavior modification and social distancing.

Suppose you get everyone to tie a bandana over their face (bank robber style). That would limit the chance of my sneeze spray (which can travel 3-5 feet with no barrier) from infecting you. And would also reduce the amount of my own hand/mouth and hand/nose contacts. Which is how my virus gets to you and how your virus get to me. Also would be a visible reminder to me and everyone who sees me.

Why isn't that better than just telling me to never touch my face and constantly wash my hands.

First off, I would argue against this if you are black or brown. Take your chance with the disease.

[ggait]

What you say makes perfect sense and would probably help tremendously but we can not even keep people who have tested positive to stay home. You think people are going to walk around with masks on? After all, it is just a cold........right? At times we are our own worst enemy.

If I was a university president, for example, I would tell everyone that they can't attend class or enter a university building without some kind of face covering. I bet a bandana or a disposable dust mask (while not a 100% bio barrier) would have a big impact. If for nothing else, as a visible reminder to change behavior.

Seems dumb not to try that.

[Trinity]

Rep Doug Collins is In self quarantine after shaking Trump’s hand in Atlanta. “My work here is done,” said the Georgia Trumpist.

Rep Matt Gaetz was also exposed at cpac. On Air Force One today with Trump. Now I’m not a conspiracy theorist but it’s almost like the Right has seen enough.

[DocBarrister]

Copying this over from schools closing thread in MD1 forum - some excellent information from soneone with some first hand knowledge of the subject

pcowlax wrote: "I really try to stick to lax on here but felt compelled to jump in here based on some of the above posts. To get it out of the way I am not an ID doc but I am a physician along with a PhD in biostatistics and epidemiology so I have some familiarity with both the bug and its propagation. The posts dismissing this as some media creation or PC hysteria (and god knows I hate PC hysteria, let's just say Bernie/Biden are not my bag) are incredibly ignorant. The severity of this virus was evident very quickly based on the Chinese response to it. Totalitarian dictatorship that they are, their actions were most certainly not driven by the media. Their rapid quarantining (after the initial coverup) of tens of millions, which led to a massive economic hit on their own country, showed definitively for those with the eyes to see that this was something new under the sun. They did nothing like this for SARS, bird flu, H1N1, etc. Those who try to dismiss this with comparisons to Ebola are so ignorant as to barely warrant a response. Ebola is, in the vast majority of cases, transmitted via bodily fluid. Corona is a highly contagious respiratory virus. Saying that Ebola was hyped and didn't spread so therefore this is overhyped is to say that cats have fur because peanut butter is sticky. Similarly those who dismiss this because it has "only" a 2% mortality or because of how many few patients it has killed relative to influenza are insane. First, WHO is currently saying 3.4%. I think that is wrong and I think it is even less than 2%, lets say 1.5%. The "flu" has a mortality most years of between 0.05 and 0.1%. This is about 20-40x more lethal. In the elderly (who, as someone said above, still count) it seems to be approaching 10-15%. A high R0 respiratory virus with mortality of 10% in the overall population would be the end of civilization, at least for the short term. This is not that but even 2% is a black swan virus. Even if it was only 0.1%, the same as the flu (which it is not)....this outbreak would be as though there had never been the flu before. What if the flu, which kills hundreds of thousands around the world, just appeared for the first time ever? It would be dismissed because, initially, it had "only" killed a few thousand. This is extremely serious. That said, it obviously is not Captain Trips. The vast majority of people who catch it will be fine and most will barely even be very ill. The disruptions on society however are teetering on the edge of massive. If, in two weeks, it is still spreading in the US (and it is much wider spread than appreciated due to the pathetic lack of test kits), I think everything may be cancelled, lax, NBA, movies, schools, Broadway, etc. Look at Italy, Japan and South Korea. Massive, draconian quarantine and closure of public events can work but plays havoc on a society and its economy. I sold a few weeks ago. Hopefully it will just blow over when the weather warms. But watch games this spring while you can. This may be the one thing that can put Hopkins out of its misery."

Agree with all of this.

Thing is, the U.S. confirmed case count has been kept artificially low because of the lack of testing. It will likely grow substantially after more testing is done. In a few weeks, we may be viewing this time now as the “good ol’ days” in the American coronavirus epidemic.

DocBarrister