Johns Hopkins 2020

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

Homewood Field is going to be like the Roman Colosseum tomorrow afternoon.

Though it should raise eyebrows but this game isn't even being shown live but on tape delay on Sunday. It is available to stream but it is likely determined that Hopkins isn't holding up their end of the bargain.

It should not raise eyebrows. This game hasn't been live on "actual TV" (as opposed to streaming) in years. It has absolutely nothing to do with Hop's current season. These decisions are made each year well in advance of any games being played.

Catbird is correct. There is very little room for a lacrosse game on TV on a weekend in March. We should be thankful it's available to stream at all. Not that the distinction even matters much anyway. It's 2020. People should know how to get a game on the ESPN app onto their TV sets. The production values are the exact same as if it were on ESPNU. (Sorry to the Quint haters—he is calling this weekend's game with Anish.)

Not those two!

[Sagittarius A*]

If only they'd have landed Scanlan!

Does Desko abide by the 19 goal rule?

[Big Dog]

If only they'd have landed Scanlan!

Does Desko abide by the 19 goal rule?

Forget whether its un-cool, running up the score is just coaching malpractice. Once you get a big lead, time to put in the bench players and walk-ons for some PT. Pull the starters so they avoid injury and get ready for next week.

[Sagittarius A*]

Given that SU is currently ranked #6 in scoring offense (17 GPG) and JHU is ranked #50 in scoring defense (13 GAA), the mercy rule could certainly become an issue. JHU is also #71 in clearing percentage (74.6%) while SU is #6 (90.8%).
Interesting that Hobart is ranked #1 in scoring offense with (20.5 GPG). Not too shabby.

[HopFan16]

Given that SU is currently ranked #6 in scoring offense (17 GPG) and JHU is ranked #50 in scoring defense (13 GAA), the mercy rule could certainly become an issue. JHU is also #71 in clearing percentage (74.6%) while SU is #6 (90.8%).
Interesting that Hobart is ranked #1 in scoring offense with (20.5 GPG). Not too shabby.

Man, I don't think we're going to win but I'm also not really sure about all this "mercy rule" talk. Hop has faced probably the most challenging schedule of offenses in the country so far as both North Carolina and Princeton are ranked in the top 4 in the country. I'd be surprised if both were not top 10 offenses by season's end. Hop-SU games, particularly at Homewood, are usually pretty close. The only real blowout in the series recently was in 2018 at the Dome, when we won 18-7. Obviously that is not going to happen again but I don't foresee the massive 20-goal blowout that some of you are suggesting. I think Cuse wins by 3 or 4.

[Peter Brown]

Homewood Field is going to be like the Roman Colosseum tomorrow afternoon.

Hopkins.jpg (14.08 KiB) Viewed 2933 times

Here come the Blue Jays!!!!

[jhu06]

The “tradition” of throwing oranges at Homewood stopped long ago. But perfectly fine oranges still go to waste. Johns Hopkins superfan Cornell Willis (@HopkinsLaxPhan) says his tailgate will smash any unused orange before the game. Willis adheres to a strict set of principles for “SU Week.”He does not wear orangeHe does not drink orange juice.He will not eat anything orange.He will not talk to you at all if he can link you in any way to Syracuse University.… and ‘orange crush’ is the drink du jour at his tailgate.
https://www.uslaxmagazine.com/college/m ... e-homewood
-they love him!

[stupefied]

Given that SU is currently ranked #6 in scoring offense (17 GPG) and JHU is ranked #50 in scoring defense (13 GAA), the mercy rule could certainly become an issue. JHU is also #71 in clearing percentage (74.6%) while SU is #6 (90.8%).
Interesting that Hobart is ranked #1 in scoring offense with (20.5 GPG). Not too shabby.

Man, I don't think we're going to win but I'm also not really sure about all this "mercy rule" talk. Hop has faced probably the most challenging schedule of offenses in the country so far as both North Carolina and Princeton are ranked in the top 4 in the country. I'd be surprised if both were not top 10 offenses by season's end. Hop-SU games, particularly at Homewood, are usually pretty close. The only real blowout in the series recently was in 2018 at the Dome, when we won 18-7. Obviously that is not going to happen again but I don't foresee the massive 20-goal blowout that some of you are suggesting. I think Cuse wins by 3 or 4.

If Hop wins which is a distinct possibility then sunny skies and optimistic minds will emerge. 13-12 someone, maybe to

[DTTMT2018]

New to fanlax posting, but have been an avid reader for years. During that time, I've casually observed the activity on this particular forum and have noted the intensity with which JHU fans care about their lax team (often admiringly, often with a degree of shock, looking at you Wilkins Dismuke). But I've been thinking recently...

At what point does JHU stop being the top tier men's lax program that it has been for all these years and move to the second tier of programs in the realm of Towson, Villanova, Marquette, etc? I think in the past, hs recruits were (and many still are) wowed by the history and high profile nature of the program, not to mention the success year after year on the field. That profile, combined with the academics, made it THE place to go for the best recruits in the country.

Recently though, recruiting has fallen by the wayside compared to what it once was, the team hasn't won an NCAA playoff game in years, and it seems like other schools are becoming viable alternatives to JHU's mix of academics and athletics. For example, Penn and Yale 10-20 years ago wouldn't have dreamed of pulling the caliber of recruits that JHU, Maryland, and ACC teams did, but nowadays, they certainly are, just look at Yale's recruiting class next year. I'm thinking of the type of kid in HS that is a good student, but also very talented on the field. Why wouldn't he go Ivy (maybe excluding Dartmouth) if he knows the recent success of Yale, Penn, Cornell on the national stage over JHU??? What does JHU offer that those programs don't. I'm sure people on this page will say Hopkins is a great school, and it is, but it doesn't have the reputation of the Ivys/Duke/UVa.

Also, I've had conversations with several former JHU players who have made the claim that when comparing their social experiences at JHU to the experiences of peers at Big10, Ivy, ACC schools, they don't really compare. This is obviously hard to give real value to as a highschooler, but it certainly evident upon arrival at college and in post-grad life.

I think that the issue with this program is less a function of Petro and more a function of the evolving landscape in college lax. I'm ready for someone to prove me wrong, or for JHU to go on a huge run to make me look like an idiot, but again I pose the question: when (if ever) does JHU turn into a second tier program?

lol - nice try trolling but at least try and get some facts straight. Coming from Stanford in Cali, Hopkins has a far stellar reputation than many ivies save for HYPS due to its STEM prowess (which are bad at dartmouth and brown and deficient from a penn engineering perspective). And yea, way off on the playoff games "many years" as pointed out by others.

STEM is "bad at Dartmouth"???
Yikes, that's uninformed.
And very, very few lax players are choosing their destination schools based on rep for STEM in specific. Overall rep, sure, but not STEM in specific.


But hey, I do agree with the 'trolling' accusation re "second tier".
Hopkins will be a "second tier" lax school only if and when that's the decision, else they'd already be an MIT program.

The newbie poster appears to have very little sense of the history of the game, whether at Hopkins or the Ivies. Of course, his moniker includes "2018" so maybe he's just young...

Hopkins was never a top lax school because the athletes were going there because it was the best school.
They weren't there "for the academics" in the same sense that recruits chose Ivy.
At least not most of them. (of course some exceptions). Unless we're comparing with recruits to UMD?
In most and maybe all decades, the admission standards for Hopkins recruits were not constrained by the rest of the school's academic standards. Fact.

By dint of historical chance, Hopkins was at the epicenter of the game as it developed, with a tight pipeline to the very best Native American sticks. Baltimore's hotbed (back then both private and public) fueled those early teams and the building of a premier legacy.

For many years, pre the growth of pro sports, Hopkins lacrosse games outdrew pro sports and regularly occupied front page coverage. That legacy became a juggernaut. The school committed to it.

The game has spread immensely and many of those early advantages no longer exist.
But there's no reason why, with institutional commitment, that Hopkins can't be at least on par with the top 10 programs, regularly in the top 4.

I feel as if at multiple points, I could respond to the response I've received with an emphatic "Ok Boomer." Correct in that I am a recent college grad, but that doesn't mean I don't "have a sense of the history of the blah blah blah." I even referenced the great history of JHU and admire the contributions made to the sport on behalf of the program. I agree with basically all of your points here!

Including your point above ("Hopkins was never a top lax school because the athletes were going there because it was the best school.
They weren't there "for the academics" in the same sense that recruits chose Ivy."). This is why I asked the question..if kids aren't going to JHU because of the academics, and the program continues its decline, what is the draw? It is not as fun of a school when compared to others, post-grad options are poorer when compared to other schools, and their sextagenarian alumni on FanLax.com have no problem regularly eviscerating 18 and 19 year olds (again, looking at Wilkins, who read these forums).

Historically speaking, many of the Ivies I've referenced won NCAA football championships pre the growth of pro sports. Those legacies are still very strong, which I'm sure JHU's will continue to be, but where are those programs on the national stage now...

Again, I repeat my point that the issue is not with Petro (you could have any number of coaches leading this team), but with the overall structure of JHU and with the evolution of NCAA lax. If I was a betting man, and I am, I would bet that due to the points I made above, JHU will slip to the 2nd tier level in the coming years.

P.S. I admit I was wrong about the NCAA games, my mistake, but if my initial post was trolling (I guess you could now call this one trolling), then you guys need to reevaluate.

[Wheels]

The mental gymnastics here are Olympic level. It's pretty easy to see why Hop has become mediocre, and it doesn't have to do with academics or location. Occam's Razor...the simplest explanation is preferable to more complex explanation. When the next chapter begins at Hop, we'll see their return to elite status in short order.

[Peter Brown]

The mental gymnastics here are Olympic level. It's pretty easy to see why Hop has become mediocre, and it doesn't have to do with academics or location. Occam's Razor...the simplest explanation is preferable to more complex explanation. When the next chapter begins at Hop, we'll see their return to elite status in short order.

+1

Petro gone.gif (106.87 KiB) Viewed 2813 times

[OCanada]

Hopkins never had a policy that a great player could gain admission regardless of academic record. Plain and simple.

If an athlete did not meet standard but would otherwise attend there was a vetting process that had to decide whether they could be expected to graduate. It was conservative because if an exception was needed they didn’t want to make a mistake.

The demise of wooden sticks was due to a fire at a Canadian Indian factory. Bacharach, if memory serves, would choose sticks for the team to consider from their inventory.

If anyone had a pipeline to sticks by the Onandaga it was Cuse.

I would be tempted to argue lax players who graduated on average out earned the average grad.

[MDlaxfan76]

New to fanlax posting, but have been an avid reader for years. During that time, I've casually observed the activity on this particular forum and have noted the intensity with which JHU fans care about their lax team (often admiringly, often with a degree of shock, looking at you Wilkins Dismuke). But I've been thinking recently...

At what point does JHU stop being the top tier men's lax program that it has been for all these years and move to the second tier of programs in the realm of Towson, Villanova, Marquette, etc? I think in the past, hs recruits were (and many still are) wowed by the history and high profile nature of the program, not to mention the success year after year on the field. That profile, combined with the academics, made it THE place to go for the best recruits in the country.

Recently though, recruiting has fallen by the wayside compared to what it once was, the team hasn't won an NCAA playoff game in years, and it seems like other schools are becoming viable alternatives to JHU's mix of academics and athletics. For example, Penn and Yale 10-20 years ago wouldn't have dreamed of pulling the caliber of recruits that JHU, Maryland, and ACC teams did, but nowadays, they certainly are, just look at Yale's recruiting class next year. I'm thinking of the type of kid in HS that is a good student, but also very talented on the field. Why wouldn't he go Ivy (maybe excluding Dartmouth) if he knows the recent success of Yale, Penn, Cornell on the national stage over JHU??? What does JHU offer that those programs don't. I'm sure people on this page will say Hopkins is a great school, and it is, but it doesn't have the reputation of the Ivys/Duke/UVa.

Also, I've had conversations with several former JHU players who have made the claim that when comparing their social experiences at JHU to the experiences of peers at Big10, Ivy, ACC schools, they don't really compare. This is obviously hard to give real value to as a highschooler, but it certainly evident upon arrival at college and in post-grad life.

I think that the issue with this program is less a function of Petro and more a function of the evolving landscape in college lax. I'm ready for someone to prove me wrong, or for JHU to go on a huge run to make me look like an idiot, but again I pose the question: when (if ever) does JHU turn into a second tier program?

lol - nice try trolling but at least try and get some facts straight. Coming from Stanford in Cali, Hopkins has a far stellar reputation than many ivies save for HYPS due to its STEM prowess (which are bad at dartmouth and brown and deficient from a penn engineering perspective). And yea, way off on the playoff games "many years" as pointed out by others.

STEM is "bad at Dartmouth"???
Yikes, that's uninformed.
And very, very few lax players are choosing their destination schools based on rep for STEM in specific. Overall rep, sure, but not STEM in specific.


But hey, I do agree with the 'trolling' accusation re "second tier".
Hopkins will be a "second tier" lax school only if and when that's the decision, else they'd already be an MIT program.

The newbie poster appears to have very little sense of the history of the game, whether at Hopkins or the Ivies. Of course, his moniker includes "2018" so maybe he's just young...

Hopkins was never a top lax school because the athletes were going there because it was the best school.
They weren't there "for the academics" in the same sense that recruits chose Ivy.
At least not most of them. (of course some exceptions). Unless we're comparing with recruits to UMD?
In most and maybe all decades, the admission standards for Hopkins recruits were not constrained by the rest of the school's academic standards. Fact.

By dint of historical chance, Hopkins was at the epicenter of the game as it developed, with a tight pipeline to the very best Native American sticks. Baltimore's hotbed (back then both private and public) fueled those early teams and the building of a premier legacy.

For many years, pre the growth of pro sports, Hopkins lacrosse games outdrew pro sports and regularly occupied front page coverage. That legacy became a juggernaut. The school committed to it.

The game has spread immensely and many of those early advantages no longer exist.
But there's no reason why, with institutional commitment, that Hopkins can't be at least on par with the top 10 programs, regularly in the top 4.

I feel as if at multiple points, I could respond to the response I've received with an emphatic "Ok Boomer." Correct in that I am a recent college grad, but that doesn't mean I don't "have a sense of the history of the blah blah blah." I even referenced the great history of JHU and admire the contributions made to the sport on behalf of the program. I agree with basically all of your points here!

Including your point above ("Hopkins was never a top lax school because the athletes were going there because it was the best school.
They weren't there "for the academics" in the same sense that recruits chose Ivy."). This is why I asked the question..if kids aren't going to JHU because of the academics, and the program continues its decline, what is the draw? It is not as fun of a school when compared to others, post-grad options are poorer when compared to other schools, and their sextagenarian alumni on FanLax.com have no problem regularly eviscerating 18 and 19 year olds (again, looking at Wilkins, who read these forums).

Historically speaking, many of the Ivies I've referenced won NCAA football championships pre the growth of pro sports. Those legacies are still very strong, which I'm sure JHU's will continue to be, but where are those programs on the national stage now...

Again, I repeat my point that the issue is not with Petro (you could have any number of coaches leading this team), but with the overall structure of JHU and with the evolution of NCAA lax. If I was a betting man, and I am, I would bet that due to the points I made above, JHU will slip to the 2nd tier level in the coming years.

P.S. I admit I was wrong about the NCAA games, my mistake, but if my initial post was trolling (I guess you could now call this one trolling), then you guys need to reevaluate.

Very well stated and argued, though drop the t in "sextagenarian".

BTW, I agree about Hop fans 'eating their young' in my parlance. Brutal at times.

Your fundamental question is a fair one, which is why I suggested that it requires institutional commitment. That involves a lot of elements, but it's far from impossible.

The choice of coaching staff is a BIG one.

Another is working to make the experience of playing at Hopkins far more often student and community fan-friendly. Frequent posters on here understand that the number of contests being played when optimal for fans to be in attendance is not sufficient to attract the scale of crowds. Of course, winning also has a way of bringing out the crowds, but not necessarily when aligned with ESPN preferences rather than in-person attendance. It remains a terrific venue to see the game played at the highest level.

I'm certainly hoping that Hopkins will have a number of future glories, if not the regular dominance it once had.

[MDlaxfan76]

Hopkins never had a policy that a great player could gain admission regardless of academic record. Plain and simple.

If an athlete did not meet standard but would otherwise attend there was a vetting process that had to decide whether they could be expected to graduate. It was conservative because if an exception was needed they didn’t want to make a mistake.

The demise of wooden sticks was due to a fire at a Canadian Indian factory. Bacharach, if memory serves, would choose sticks for the team to consider from their inventory.

If anyone had a pipeline to sticks by the Onandaga it was Cuse.

I would be tempted to argue lax players who graduated on average out earned the average grad.

Yes, Bacharach Raisin was the pipeline, Baltimore based. And Hopkins got first choice.
The demise was not a fire per se, it was the rise of the STX head. IMO.

And yeah, guys with abysmal academic records regularly got into Hopkins. Which in no way is to denigrate other guys, nor the ones with poor academic records for that matter...quite a lot of guys blossom quite successfully in their lives without being academic stars! And I know some very bright, accomplished Hop lax alums, so please don't misunderstand me.

By whether they could be expected to graduate, that of course involved what accommodations were available to get a less academically competent or motivated athlete through school, whether through gut courses or otherwise. Far from a Hop specific thing.

And I dare say that, at least in my era, UMD's rep for academic requirements was even less.

On the "out earned", I think there's definitely a phenomenon, probably even more so in earlier eras, of guys with a strong sports team background (with all that means) who thrive in the competitive world of business in particular. Gotta remember that Hopkins' undergraduate experience (especially in STEM) has historically been geared toward academia/research, not industry. Or medicine. The institution as a whole viewed business (and law) as crass.

I'm on the advisory board of The Center for Leadership Education, housed in the Whiting School of Engineering but serving the entire community, which is working to help build the 'soft skills' necessary to be leaders in industry as well. Good progress but more to be done, given the legacy of the academia bias.

[OCanada]

Wonderful post. Hopkins’ foundation was research oriented. Bloomberg was an exception for his time post grad. There have been a few. I expect you know at least one or two. Congratulations on your work.

MD has become an outstanding university with some areas as good as any. I had a classmate who got his math PhD there before that spread to other areas .

I know of two legendary lax players who posted 0.0 GPA their second semester and returned for their third. Both graduated and best I know have done well in their chosen careers. Navy has had a somewhat flexible application of standard over the years. LC and Towson too. Even some Ivies.

[Mr. F]

Homewood Field is going to be like the Roman Colosseum tomorrow afternoon.

Hopkins.jpg



Here come the Blue Jays!!!!

To be fair, the Men's Basketball Tournament hosted at Hopkins will not have fans given that there are confirmed cases of Coronavirus in Maryland. Could lacrosse attendance be restricted too?

[HopFan16]

To be fair, the Men's Basketball Tournament hosted at Hopkins will not have fans given that there are confirmed cases of Coronavirus in Maryland. Could lacrosse attendance be restricted too?

With the game in 20 hours, I think they would have announced by now if the attendance restriction applied to the lacrosse game.

My impression is the situation is unique to the basketball tournament because a student at one of the schools coming to campus tomorrow (Yeshiva) tested positive for the virus.

[dawn patrol]

Will the troops rally ?
With a forecast of sunny skies and 50 degrees curious to see how many JHU fans show up to see the Jays take on top ranked SU.

[Peter Brown]

Will the troops rally ?
With a forecast of sunny skies and 50 degrees curious to see how many JHU fans show up to see the Jays take on top ranked SU.

My bet is it’ll feel more like a Cuse home game. Those boys travel.

[Wheels]

Hopkins never had a policy that a great player could gain admission regardless of academic record. Plain and simple.

If an athlete did not meet standard but would otherwise attend there was a vetting process that had to decide whether they could be expected to graduate. It was conservative because if an exception was needed they didn’t want to make a mistake.

The demise of wooden sticks was due to a fire at a Canadian Indian factory. Bacharach, if memory serves, would choose sticks for the team to consider from their inventory.

If anyone had a pipeline to sticks by the Onandaga it was Cuse.

I would be tempted to argue lax players who graduated on average out earned the average grad.

Every college and university that offers varsity sports, including D3, have "special admits." These are students who do not meet the academic profile of the typically admitted student. In most programs (D1-3), coaches from each sport will provide to their AD the number of special admits they want admitted for an incoming class. The AD then submits the number of requested special admits to the Provost (or head of academics) and the Enrollment management people, who then come back with a different number or allow the coaches to fill those spots with special admits. Some schools have committees to do this, but ultimately, the provost or chief academic officer will sign off on it. Although...I've seen presidents intervene due to alumni pressure or an incoming gift.

This is the process - the special admit process - Aunt Becky and others were exploiting.

But let's also acknowledge that lacrosse in general draws from a population that is more likely to have better students than not. We can all talk about a couple of people here or there that were boxes of rocks, but by and large most lacrosse players come to college pretty well academically prepared.