Johns Hopkins 2020

[viper]

Yale fan here - don't crush me - and I am curious how folks think Jackson Morrill, son of a JHU HOF, grandson of a JHH HOF, would've done under Benson. No clue whey he wasn't recruited by JHU, but he is up to 220 plus points for Yale. This young man seems like the kind of alumni kid who would've been perfect for JHU. Thoughts?

I certainly don't expect everyone to go back and read all 165 pages of this nonsense unless you have a death wish—that said, a 1-minute search using the search function would show you that this exact conversation has been had multiple times already. What exactly do you mean by "he wasn't recruited by JHU"? He absolutely was. Petro wanted him, but apparently Morrill wasn't thrilled that Shack Stanwick—at the time probably the best attackman in that recruiting class—had already committed to the Jays:

If you’re wondering how Morrill ended up at Yale instead of Hopkins – where his father teamed up as a junior with current Blue Jays coach Dave Pietramala on the ’87 title team – Mike Morrill says it came down to two factors.

One was a compelling recruiting pitch by Shay. The other was the presence of then-attackman/quarterback Shack Stanwick as a fixture at Homewood, where Stanwick would be a junior during Morrill’s freshman year.

“We had a fantastic recruiting trip to Hopkins, and our first visit to Yale really resonated with [Jackson]. We went back two more times. It was clear Andy really wanted him,” Mike Morrill says. “With Shack there [at Hopkins], we didn’t know if Jackson would play [for those first two years]. He wasn’t too excited about that.”

https://www.uslaxmagazine.com/college/m ... c-families

Of course he ended up playing second fiddle to Ben Reeves for a year or two anyway but at the time he committed, Reeves was not considered to be nearly the player that he ultimately was by the time Morrill was on campus and ready to compete for playing time.

There are lots and lots of potential recruits with ties to Hopkins lacrosse. Petro has gotten a good chunk of them. In today's landscape, you can't get them all.

I wouldn't criticize Petro's recruiting ability. He seems to consistently come up with top 10/top 5 recruiting classes (like the next two for example). The issue is that the quality of the recruiting classes never seems to turn into results at the college level and in at least one case, players that seem to not reach their potential at JHU do so after they graduate at higher levels (aka, John Ranagan).

[jhu06]

this roster has 24 IL top 100 recruits and has 1 win. The loyola program that has beaten it 6/7 usually has 2-3 top 100 recruits.

[MDlaxfan76]

Yale fan here - don't crush me - and I am curious how folks think Jackson Morrill, son of a JHU HOF, grandson of a JHH HOF, would've done under Benson. No clue whey he wasn't recruited by JHU, but he is up to 220 plus points for Yale. This young man seems like the kind of alumni kid who would've been perfect for JHU. Thoughts?

I certainly don't expect everyone to go back and read all 165 pages of this nonsense unless you have a death wish—that said, a 1-minute search using the search function would show you that this exact conversation has been had multiple times already. What exactly do you mean by "he wasn't recruited by JHU"? He absolutely was. Petro wanted him, but apparently Morrill wasn't thrilled that Shack Stanwick—at the time probably the best attackman in that recruiting class—had already committed to the Jays:

If you’re wondering how Morrill ended up at Yale instead of Hopkins – where his father teamed up as a junior with current Blue Jays coach Dave Pietramala on the ’87 title team – Mike Morrill says it came down to two factors.

One was a compelling recruiting pitch by Shay. The other was the presence of then-attackman/quarterback Shack Stanwick as a fixture at Homewood, where Stanwick would be a junior during Morrill’s freshman year.

“We had a fantastic recruiting trip to Hopkins, and our first visit to Yale really resonated with [Jackson]. We went back two more times. It was clear Andy really wanted him,” Mike Morrill says. “With Shack there [at Hopkins], we didn’t know if Jackson would play [for those first two years]. He wasn’t too excited about that.”

https://www.uslaxmagazine.com/college/m ... c-families

Of course he ended up playing second fiddle to Ben Reeves for a year or two anyway but at the time he committed, Reeves was not considered to be nearly the player that he ultimately was by the time Morrill was on campus and ready to compete for playing time.

There are lots and lots of potential recruits with ties to Hopkins lacrosse. Petro has gotten a good chunk of them. In today's landscape, you can't get them all.

I wouldn't criticize Petro's recruiting ability. He seems to consistently come up with top 10/top 5 recruiting classes (like the next two for example). The issue is that the quality of the recruiting classes never seems to turn into results at the college level and in at least one case, players that seem to not reach their potential at JHU do so after they graduate at higher levels (aka, John Ranagan).

On the Morrill question, gotta remember that Jackson's mom was a top lax player at Dartmouth, a reliably top 10 program of that era, so have an Ivy affinity. They sent their kids to the very top academic high schools with very strong athletic programs.

I understand the Shack comment as the "QB" role is pretty identical, but I don't think the best attack men generally shy away from going to a program that has another excellent attack man 2 classes above them!

I suspect Mike was just looking for some reason to give why his son wasn't going to his own alma mater that wouldn't hurt anyone's feelings. More telling would be the 2 elements in this statement: 1) "our first visit to Yale really resonated with [Jackson]. We went back two more times. 2) It was clear Andy really wanted him,"

Yale would have a ton of appeal to any Ivy oriented family. Not my or my wife's preferred (Dartmouth) or my son's( Harvard) but hey, Yale is pretty darn awesome...with a very, very strong lax program.

And the "Andy really wanted him" comment may also imply that Petro showed less eagerness. Whether that was because he had a known QB on the roster (I doubt it) or because he was complacent about the need to push a legacy to prefer Hopkins (possible) or because Jackson was a pretty small kid during ER and his older brother Zeke (good friend of my son's) hadn't blossomed into the sort of status of mom or dad and went to Georgetown (likely not shown much love by Petro-maybe some bad blood on that?)

Petro's heavy involvement in ER had all sorts of costs, IMO.

[MDlaxfan76]

Yale fan here - don't crush me - and I am curious how folks think Jackson Morrill, son of a JHU HOF, grandson of a JHH HOF, would've done under Benson. No clue whey he wasn't recruited by JHU, but he is up to 220 plus points for Yale. This young man seems like the kind of alumni kid who would've been perfect for JHU. Thoughts?

Yes he would have been perfect and I think its a bit presumptious to say "he wasn't recruited by JHU" unless you know something specific. I think he opted for Yale despite having paternal JHU lineage. Instead he followed his maternal lineage - as I thought his mom was a Yale grad.

If my facts are straight blame losing Morrill on his dad for marrying outside of his educational realm.

Mom was Dartmouth, not Yale.

[flalax22]

Does anyone know of the staff recruited goalie Ross Blumenthal at Drexel? Started as a freshman.

The Sun wrote an article on him last year. Bryant was the only other DI school that recruited him. If Hopkins would have expressed interest, no doubt he would have been a Jay. His dad is a huge JHU supporter.

That’s what I thought. Thanks

[Catbird]

Some good news. If you're in town for the Cuse game, stick around for the JHU mens hoops NCAA game vs. PSU-Harrisburg on Saturday at 6PM.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/col ... story.html

JHU Mens Hoops is 24-3 , just beat the #1 team in DIII to win the Centennial Conference Championship, and a legitimate contender for the DIII tournament.

[nrthcrosslax]

"Andy really wanted him"

I don't know that it means Petro didn't want him. It's not zero sum. Everyone can want him but he happened to choose a place where he was wanted but it wasn't Hopkins.

[viper]

Yale fan here - don't crush me - and I am curious how folks think Jackson Morrill, son of a JHU HOF, grandson of a JHH HOF, would've done under Benson. No clue whey he wasn't recruited by JHU, but he is up to 220 plus points for Yale. This young man seems like the kind of alumni kid who would've been perfect for JHU. Thoughts?

I certainly don't expect everyone to go back and read all 165 pages of this nonsense unless you have a death wish—that said, a 1-minute search using the search function would show you that this exact conversation has been had multiple times already. What exactly do you mean by "he wasn't recruited by JHU"? He absolutely was. Petro wanted him, but apparently Morrill wasn't thrilled that Shack Stanwick—at the time probably the best attackman in that recruiting class—had already committed to the Jays:

If you’re wondering how Morrill ended up at Yale instead of Hopkins – where his father teamed up as a junior with current Blue Jays coach Dave Pietramala on the ’87 title team – Mike Morrill says it came down to two factors.

One was a compelling recruiting pitch by Shay. The other was the presence of then-attackman/quarterback Shack Stanwick as a fixture at Homewood, where Stanwick would be a junior during Morrill’s freshman year.

“We had a fantastic recruiting trip to Hopkins, and our first visit to Yale really resonated with [Jackson]. We went back two more times. It was clear Andy really wanted him,” Mike Morrill says. “With Shack there [at Hopkins], we didn’t know if Jackson would play [for those first two years]. He wasn’t too excited about that.”

https://www.uslaxmagazine.com/college/m ... c-families

Of course he ended up playing second fiddle to Ben Reeves for a year or two anyway but at the time he committed, Reeves was not considered to be nearly the player that he ultimately was by the time Morrill was on campus and ready to compete for playing time.

There are lots and lots of potential recruits with ties to Hopkins lacrosse. Petro has gotten a good chunk of them. In today's landscape, you can't get them all.

I wouldn't criticize Petro's recruiting ability. He seems to consistently come up with top 10/top 5 recruiting classes (like the next two for example). The issue is that the quality of the recruiting classes never seems to turn into results at the college level and in at least one case, players that seem to not reach their potential at JHU do so after they graduate at higher levels (aka, John Ranagan).

On the Morrill question, gotta remember that Jackson's mom was a top lax player at Dartmouth, a reliably top 10 program of that era, so have an Ivy affinity. They sent their kids to the very top academic high schools with very strong athletic programs.

I understand the Shack comment as the "QB" role is pretty identical, but I don't think the best attack men generally shy away from going to a program that has another excellent attack man 2 classes above them!

I suspect Mike was just looking for some reason to give why his son wasn't going to his own alma mater that wouldn't hurt anyone's feelings. More telling would be the 2 elements in this statement: 1) "our first visit to Yale really resonated with [Jackson]. We went back two more times. 2) It was clear Andy really wanted him,"

Yale would have a ton of appeal to any Ivy oriented family. Not my or my wife's preferred (Dartmouth) or my son's( Harvard) but hey, Yale is pretty darn awesome...with a very, very strong lax program.

And the "Andy really wanted him" comment may also imply that Petro showed less eagerness. Whether that was because he had a known QB on the roster (I doubt it) or because he was complacent about the need to push a legacy to prefer Hopkins (possible) or because Jackson was a pretty small kid during ER and his older brother Zeke (good friend of my son's) hadn't blossomed into the sort of status of mom or dad and went to Georgetown (likely not shown much love by Petro-maybe some bad blood on that?)

Petro's heavy involvement in ER had all sorts of costs, IMO.

+1

[viper]

Yale fan here - don't crush me - and I am curious how folks think Jackson Morrill, son of a JHU HOF, grandson of a JHH HOF, would've done under Benson. No clue whey he wasn't recruited by JHU, but he is up to 220 plus points for Yale. This young man seems like the kind of alumni kid who would've been perfect for JHU. Thoughts?

Yes he would have been perfect and I think its a bit presumptious to say "he wasn't recruited by JHU" unless you know something specific. I think he opted for Yale despite having paternal JHU lineage. Instead he followed his maternal lineage - as I thought his mom was a Yale grad.

If my facts are straight blame losing Morrill on his dad for marrying outside of his educational realm.

Mom was Dartmouth, not Yale.

Thanks for the correction.

[MDlaxfan76]

"Andy really wanted him"

I don't know that it means Petro didn't want him. It's not zero sum. Everyone can want him but he happened to choose a place where he was wanted but it wasn't Hopkins.

Also matters about the timing. It was clear pretty early on that Jackson was a very good player, but I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't get a ton of enthusiasm from Petro (or others) during the very earliest ER as he wasn't a big guy. But later, sure...but if Petro was making commitments to other kids earlier than he was excited about doing so with Jackson, whether due to the size or he was complacent, that certainly could have happened. And that may have been felt differently.

However, I'd be more inclined to think that the Morrills wanted to give the Ivies a chance and their process started later than the super early programs. More likely that they were the ones who had enough confidence in Jackson to have him really look around.

And I wouldn't be surprised if Shay wanted to open the aperture to MIAA kids more than in the prior decade, which certainly seems to be the case given the influx. Jackson was a 'get' in that regard.

Yale would be very, very hard to turn down.

[CU77]

Moral: big success in D3 is no guarantee. That was my point.

Very true. Big success as a D1 coordinator is no guarantee as a HC. Being a HC at lower level D1 program is no guarantee as a HC at major program.

A lot of hiring is a dump shoot. But I'd go with success as a HC at any level over success as coordinator if I had a choice.

I agree with all this! Especially the "dump shoot" part. There would be a lot less turnover in coaching if better prediction of success was possible.

If I was the JHU AD, would go with Nadelen, but so far his team this year is making the optics of that look rather bad ...

[a fan]

JHU06 asked for proven D1 Coaches.

Zimmerman is retired, too.

"Danowski? Can't see him leaving. Same for Tillman. Same for Shay. Same for Desko. Same for Scroggs."

Well, you listed him with a bunch of active coaches that you didn't think would leave their current jobs. I think you meant to say Breschi but ok.

I didn't. I forgot to add him!

But you're right, that sentence didn't make logical sense.

[steel_hop]

SU game notes are up. Still lists Darby in the key player role but also lists Giacalone. Now, you can say that is important except Darby and Giacalone were listed as key players in all the game notes so far. Otherwise nothing of real importance in there.

[Wheels]

Moral: big success in D3 is no guarantee. That was my point.

Very true. Big success as a D1 coordinator is no guarantee as a HC. Being a HC at lower level D1 program is no guarantee as a HC at major program.

A lot of hiring is a dump shoot. But I'd go with success as a HC at any level over success as coordinator if I had a choice.

I agree with all this! Especially the "dump shoot" part. There would be a lot less turnover in coaching if better prediction of success was possible.

If I was the JHU AD, would go with Nadelen, but so far his team this year is making the optics of that look rather bad ...

TBH, dump shoot wasn't what I typed...but certain words that rhyme with wrap and pair with shoot...was what I was originally typed. Props to the algorithm for using dump to get close to what I meant. The machines are becoming aware.

[DTTMT2018]

New to fanlax posting, but have been an avid reader for years. During that time, I've casually observed the activity on this particular forum and have noted the intensity with which JHU fans care about their lax team (often admiringly, often with a degree of shock, looking at you Wilkins Dismuke). But I've been thinking recently...

At what point does JHU stop being the top tier men's lax program that it has been for all these years and move to the second tier of programs in the realm of Towson, Villanova, Marquette, etc? I think in the past, hs recruits were (and many still are) wowed by the history and high profile nature of the program, not to mention the success year after year on the field. That profile, combined with the academics, made it THE place to go for the best recruits in the country.

Recently though, recruiting has fallen by the wayside compared to what it once was, the team hasn't won an NCAA playoff game in years, and it seems like other schools are becoming viable alternatives to JHU's mix of academics and athletics. For example, Penn and Yale 10-20 years ago wouldn't have dreamed of pulling the caliber of recruits that JHU, Maryland, and ACC teams did, but nowadays, they certainly are, just look at Yale's recruiting class next year. I'm thinking of the type of kid in HS that is a good student, but also very talented on the field. Why wouldn't he go Ivy (maybe excluding Dartmouth) if he knows the recent success of Yale, Penn, Cornell on the national stage over JHU??? What does JHU offer that those programs don't. I'm sure people on this page will say Hopkins is a great school, and it is, but it doesn't have the reputation of the Ivys/Duke/UVa.

Also, I've had conversations with several former JHU players who have made the claim that when comparing their social experiences at JHU to the experiences of peers at Big10, Ivy, ACC schools, they don't really compare. This is obviously hard to give real value to as a highschooler, but it certainly evident upon arrival at college and in post-grad life.

I think that the issue with this program is less a function of Petro and more a function of the evolving landscape in college lax. I'm ready for someone to prove me wrong, or for JHU to go on a huge run to make me look like an idiot, but again I pose the question: when (if ever) does JHU turn into a second tier program?

[DMac]

Welcome aboard. I just hope they start making you look like an idiot next week and not this week.

[OCanada]

Homer. Reposting. Apparently i did something wrong trying to get the original up.

I am aware of the history of Ivy coaches leaving to go elsewhere. Dave left Cornell 20 years ago. The game has changed in context and rules. The big winners have bee the Ivies and large state schools.

In the Ivies Yale, Cornell, Penn, Princeton have reason to believe they can make the playoffs and rightfully so. I don’t see those coaches leaving. Harvard will soon be a big competitor competing for talent. I suppose someone could leave for a big enough paycheck but they would be taking on challenges many would rather avoid in my opinion. To me it is a different time as far as Hopkins is concerned for a coach Hopkind would consider hiring

[Big Dog]

New to fanlax posting, but have been an avid reader for years. During that time, I've casually observed the activity on this particular forum and have noted the intensity with which JHU fans care about their lax team (often admiringly, often with a degree of shock, looking at you Wilkins Dismuke). But I've been thinking recently...

At what point does JHU stop being the top tier men's lax program that it has been for all these years and move to the second tier of programs in the realm of Towson, Villanova, Marquette, etc? I think in the past, hs recruits were (and many still are) wowed by the history and high profile nature of the program, not to mention the success year after year on the field. That profile, combined with the academics, made it THE place to go for the best recruits in the country.

Recently though, recruiting has fallen by the wayside compared to what it once was, the team hasn't won an NCAA playoff game in years, and it seems like other schools are becoming viable alternatives to JHU's mix of academics and athletics. For example, Penn and Yale 10-20 years ago wouldn't have dreamed of pulling the caliber of recruits that JHU, Maryland, and ACC teams did, but nowadays, they certainly are, just look at Yale's recruiting class next year. I'm thinking of the type of kid in HS that is a good student, but also very talented on the field. Why wouldn't he go Ivy (maybe excluding Dartmouth) if he knows the recent success of Yale, Penn, Cornell on the national stage over JHU??? What does JHU offer that those programs don't. I'm sure people on this page will say Hopkins is a great school, and it is, but it doesn't have the reputation of the Ivys/Duke/UVa.

Also, I've had conversations with several former JHU players who have made the claim that when comparing their social experiences at JHU to the experiences of peers at Big10, Ivy, ACC schools, they don't really compare. This is obviously hard to give real value to as a highschooler, but it certainly evident upon arrival at college and in post-grad life.

I think that the issue with this program is less a function of Petro and more a function of the evolving landscape in college lax. I'm ready for someone to prove me wrong, or for JHU to go on a huge run to make me look like an idiot, but again I pose the question: when (if ever) does JHU turn into a second tier program?

I think you answered your own question in the bolded above.

[viper]

New to fanlax posting, but have been an avid reader for years. During that time, I've casually observed the activity on this particular forum and have noted the intensity with which JHU fans care about their lax team (often admiringly, often with a degree of shock, looking at you Wilkins Dismuke). But I've been thinking recently...

At what point does JHU stop being the top tier men's lax program that it has been for all these years and move to the second tier of programs in the realm of Towson, Villanova, Marquette, etc? I think in the past, hs recruits were (and many still are) wowed by the history and high profile nature of the program, not to mention the success year after year on the field. That profile, combined with the academics, made it THE place to go for the best recruits in the country.

Recently though, recruiting has fallen by the wayside compared to what it once was, the team hasn't won an NCAA playoff game in years, and it seems like other schools are becoming viable alternatives to JHU's mix of academics and athletics. For example, Penn and Yale 10-20 years ago wouldn't have dreamed of pulling the caliber of recruits that JHU, Maryland, and ACC teams did, but nowadays, they certainly are, just look at Yale's recruiting class next year. I'm thinking of the type of kid in HS that is a good student, but also very talented on the field. Why wouldn't he go Ivy (maybe excluding Dartmouth) if he knows the recent success of Yale, Penn, Cornell on the national stage over JHU??? What does JHU offer that those programs don't. I'm sure people on this page will say Hopkins is a great school, and it is, but it doesn't have the reputation of the Ivys/Duke/UVa.

Also, I've had conversations with several former JHU players who have made the claim that when comparing their social experiences at JHU to the experiences of peers at Big10, Ivy, ACC schools, they don't really compare. This is obviously hard to give real value to as a highschooler, but it certainly evident upon arrival at college and in post-grad life.

I think that the issue with this program is less a function of Petro and more a function of the evolving landscape in college lax. I'm ready for someone to prove me wrong, or for JHU to go on a huge run to make me look like an idiot, but again I pose the question: when (if ever) does JHU turn into a second tier program?

This has all been discussed to death, but here are some quickies in response to your post:

1) JHU has stopped being a top tier program sometime in the last decade and are now at the best at the second level. Results from head to head games over the last 10 years demonstrates that clearly.

2) Recruiting HAS NOT fallen by the wayside as they continually get top 10 (often top 1-5) recruiting classes coming in. The next two are examples of that continuing. If you want to say that other teams are getting more talent that in the past, raising them up - I would not argue. It's not about the recruiting, it's about what happens with the recruits over the 4+ years they are at JHU, which frankly has been underwhelming for many if not most.

3) Every kid is looking for something different in a school, Yale has no problem recruiting and can be argued is very similar in terms of their urban location and social life, etc. Some of the often disputed downsides of JHU might keep some from coming, but on the whole has not effected recruiting (see item 2 above).

Based on the points above, while performing below the top tier of teams for quite some time now, I believe that they can be competitive at the National Championship level again with the talent they get. It's just a matter of having the right people there to develop the talent and help them reach their potential.

[palaxoff]

So what is the hook for recruits to Hopkins, after you take away the Amazing Lacrosse Tradition. What pushes a recruit to your school. It used to be a badge of honor for a high school player to get an inquring letter.

I am sure Tramboni, is showing kids all the bells and whistle of a Big Ten Athletic Program and the social life that goes with it at Penn State. John Hopkins is an outstanding University, but with the exception of Lacrosse plays Division 3, where they are very competitive but don't have the same athletic budget.

Petro seems to do a very good job but maybe isn't getting the cream of the crop, they used to.