Cornell 2020

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RedIvy
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Re: Cornell 2020

Post by RedIvy »

wgdsr wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:06 pm
RedIvy wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:35 am
DMac wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:00 am I've come to trust wgdsr's word and observations a whole lot more than yours over the years, 1313. I don't think he's color blind, sees in much more than just red.
As for the conensus, I don't doubt it was among you and your other Big Red fans. Not so much among objective viewers and Buckeye fans though (you left that part out).
As mentioned my two big questions were the penalty call on Doria and the different time assessment on the same penalties. As well as the non push with possession at the end that gave Ohio State their 16th goal. These combined gives me pause, although I don’t do much because of work travel and time I’m a certified official and in my experience these were significant errors that should draw discussion/assessment from NCAA official assessment team that focus on helping officials improve. Not a gotcha but review to help individual and referree teams improve. It’s not easy to do it well all the time. At the end of the day it likely wasn’t bias and just misses. The officials were quick to call Ohio State on a couple of after whistle penalties which seemed warranted, but if there was bias these would more than likely not been called.
first, thanks for your service when you do take the time out to officiate. the game could certainly use more of you.

the bolded, underlined above -- maybe you just saw it briefly, didn't go back and rewatch -- i did after seeing multiple folks had an issue with this play. not in a million years is this a push or any kind of foul. to me, if anyone goes back and looks at it critically and still thinks it's a foul, there is nothing other than cornell red glasses to explain it. leclaire came from the side (the slightly behind side, yes) and made all contact with a controlled, 2 handed check on your player's stick (and possibly top hand). because leclaire is a physical freak, the force pulled down your man's stick, his hands, and launched him off the ground. it is not possible he could have made a better, more legal check. that is not a penalty in any league or at any age level. unless it's missed by the refs.
It was nice to watch a game on ESPNU on a Sunday which allowed me to watch with a very respected college level officials and while it was a subjective call, not everyone saw it like you did, even during the replay. In fairness it was not unanimous with the group I was watching with, but not as clear as you may suggest. I think Those Red glasses may also be useful for Ohio State.

Im not suggesting conscience bias was at play here I truly believe the officials did a good job but missed some important calls (the push aside) and this is part of the game either way. These are part of the “field conditions”. Getting it right all the time is not realistic and teams need to adjust to the conditions.

On to Charlotte and the Penn State game. Please say the team is flying.
VeryRustyRed
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Re: Cornell 2020

Post by VeryRustyRed »

Match-ups are very much of a key in individual and team sports.
Here are my thoughts on 3 key match-ups for this Sunday's game:
1) Arceri vs. Raz/Petrakis: While Arceri and Inacio are both elite FOGOS, they have different styles. I think the Raz/Petrakis combo will do (much) better this week. As will the wing play. Against Penn State's high-powered offense, they will have to. My guess is that looking at the OSU game tape, both FOGO and wing play, will help as well. I'd also like to see Salvatore on a wing where he excels, though Coach M probably is hesitant not to tire him or disrupt the close D alignment. 'Suggest that he experiment with Salvo on a wing vs. PSU, rather than against Yale in an Ivy League game.
2) Ament vs. ?: I attended last years's game vs. Penn St. If I remember correctly, Penn State dominated at the x from the start and ran off to an early 6-2 lead. 'Never looked back, though Cornell hung tough throughout. Wallace was matched against Ament. Wallace had an excellent career for the Red, but the Ament match-up didn't work from the start. I believe Cornell was finally able to stabilize things by locking off Ament. While Adler has been matched up against much bigger opponents so far this season, rather than smaller/quicker attackmen, I think he may be the best option against Ament. He looks to have the quickest feet among the Cornell poles. It's only his first year at close - I think he has lots of upside. And his height doesn't bother me - the Great Ryan McClay was only 5'10".
3) O'Keefe vs. ?: I haven't seen many better shooters...ever. He has it all - a very quick release, pin-point accuracy, and laser pace. He also moves very well off-ball. 'And he has Ament getting him the ball. I was at Lake Placid this summer and saw him play against the Big Red Steelheads. The Steelheads had two HS kids playing defense (headed for Air Force and Utah respectively - IMO, these two were gems). One of them picks up O'Keefe on the first defensive possession. I'm standing right on the sideline and hear Duggan tell the kid, "I got him." X minutes later after O'Keefe buried his second rocket into the uppermost corner over Ierlan's shoulder, Duggan shrugs his shoulders, sort of 'what can you do.' The anecdote is in no disrespect for Duggan - he has been great this season. An unsung hero. It's just a reflection on how good O'Keefe is.

Sunday's game will be the ultimate litmus test as to how Cornell stacks up against the country's top teams...Penn State, Yale, UVA, Penn. Perhaps not coincidentally, all have elite FOGOS.
Velvet.Fog
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Re: Cornell 2020

Post by Velvet.Fog »

VRR - I think the keys you highlight below are the main considerations:

1) we can only hope our wing play improves this week. To me, that was the main culprit v OSU that resulted in such a poor FO win percentage. On the bright side - I’m not sure it can get any worse. Hoping that 17/5/46 are our guys on the wings as much as possible.

2) I think we will likely see Adler on Ament. I think the is Cornell’s best candidate fir Ament. Hoping that he almost shuts him off - or is close and on his hands so much that Ament has to work for everything he gets. I think Adler can move with Ament and if he focuses on body position and disrupting his passes - we will be best off. We will need a similar strategy later in the year with Sowers (maybe even a true shut off there), so why not give it a go on Sunday.

3) that would leave Salvatore on OKeefe. I think that is a decent match up for us. He is a great shooter and moves well off ball. The key is not to let him roam and find an opening. He is the best shooter in tight space in the country. He deserves max attention when he does not have the ball.

Not surprisingly - I would say we go hard at Ament and OKeefe and see if others can beat us. If they still win after we have tried this - hats off to them. I still think back on the Brown, Princeton and Maryland games where 51 was being faceguarded. It is very effective. I hate it - but the results don’t lie. We need an approach that tries to minimize their impact on the game.

VF
CU88
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Re: Cornell 2020

Post by CU88 »

I know that Cornell will take quality shots; but I hope that they are patient when holding the ball in the offensive end. 4th quarter let down last Sunday was probably also due to some tired legs on D.
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CU77
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Re: Cornell 2020

Post by CU77 »

+1 on the last two posts …

Also, I have to give a shout-out to the men's and women's hockey teams, both #1 in the polls as post-season conference play begins. LGR!
Ezra White
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Re: Cornell 2020

Post by Ezra White »

CU88 wrote: Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:57 am I know that Cornell will take quality shots; but I hope that they are patient when holding the ball in the offensive end. 4th quarter let down last Sunday was probably also due to some tired legs on D.
Yeah. One side to this is the overall game situation. If you're up by five goals with less than 8 minutes to go, you might milk the clock unless you have a sure shot. On the other side, anytime in the game you need to be aware that your defense may need a bit of a rest. Again, milking the clock a bit can be helpful.
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ChairmanOfTheBoard
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Re: Cornell 2020

Post by ChairmanOfTheBoard »

Velvet.Fog wrote: Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:44 am 2) I think we will likely see Adler on Ament. I think the is Cornell’s best candidate fir Ament. Hoping that he almost shuts him off - or is close and on his hands so much that Ament has to work for everything he gets. I think Adler can move with Ament and if he focuses on body position and disrupting his passes - we will be best off. We will need a similar strategy later in the year with Sowers (maybe even a true shut off there), so why not give it a go on Sunday.
i like this call- PSU might not have much distribution beyond ament (not that they really need it!). and adler is athletic. what did penn do to keep ament to 2 assists???

great idea on sowers; he might be more talented than any other player around (though i'm partial to Teat of course :oops: ).

maybe stay out of the penalty box too- this defense will need to conserve as much as it can; this offense is a handful.
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RedIvy
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Re: Cornell 2020

Post by RedIvy »

Both offenses will score. It will likely boil down to the number of offensive possessions and which goalie is making more saves. Hoping CI starts his climb in save percentage this Sunday.
joewillie78
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Re: Cornell 2020

Post by joewillie78 »

ChairmanOfTheBoard wrote: Thu Mar 05, 2020 4:42 pm
Velvet.Fog wrote: Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:44 am 2) I think we will likely see Adler on Ament. I think the is Cornell’s best candidate fir Ament. Hoping that he almost shuts him off - or is close and on his hands so much that Ament has to work for everything he gets. I think Adler can move with Ament and if he focuses on body position and disrupting his passes - we will be best off. We will need a similar strategy later in the year with Sowers (maybe even a true shut off there), so why not give it a go on Sunday.
i like this call- PSU might not have much distribution beyond ament (not that they really need it!). and adler is athletic. what did penn do to keep ament to 2 assists???

great idea on sowers; he might be more talented than any other player around (though i'm partial to Teat of course :oops: ).

maybe stay out of the penalty box too- this defense will need to conserve as much as it can; this offense is a handful.
Who would have thought that a young player like Adler would already be our go yo guy to cover the other teams best offensive weapon on attack. This bodes well for our defense down the road, as he is getting such invaluable experience already having to cover the likes of Arment, Leclair, Ludell and dare I say Brandau or Morrill, or even EGADS, Sowers sometime down the road. Kudos to this kid for taking on these incredible assignments and kudos to Pete for having this kind of confidence in such a young player.

The future of this team is so bright, but the present looks pretty darn good as well. Looking forward to 4pm Sunday, and watching this team play their hearts out again.

GOBIGRED
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faircornell
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Re: Cornell 2020

Post by faircornell »

I think that Red Ivy summed upped the key points of the game very well. This will likely be a shoot-out. If our defense can be competent (it does not need to be perfect) Cornell will be in the game. Last year, Jeff Tambroni (an offensive expert if there ever was one) noted that the efficiency of Cornell's offense really concerned him. If we can get the ball in the offensive end, we will score.

In my view, the most important task for the Defense is to forestall a first quarter bombardment, which seems to be a typical game plan for PSU, to get the defense and goal tender second guessing themselves.

My hope is that the ability to win 50/50 ground balls and to create CTOs will help Cornell with any disadvantage on face-offs. Also, valuing possession as much as possible, with good clearing and shot selection will be important.

If Cornell can execute a low turnover, efficient clearing game, this could be a fourth quarter thriller, and possibly a one goal game or OT contest.
Laxxal22
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Re: Cornell 2020

Post by Laxxal22 »

A little off topic but I wanted to pose a question about scheduling.

While there's an abundance of games to stream this year, the vast majority of weekend games/games in general are on Saturdays at noon or 1. I've seen a lot of complaints about this bottleneck and how it limits the ability to see more teams. Cornell has largely avoided that so far, and will also do so this weekend and later in the season with a Friday night game against Penn. Also, two of their games were played in the lacrosse recruiting mecca of Baltimore, and a third will be in Charlotte on Sunday which has long been a strong area for lacrosse in the south.

My question is, "How intentional is all of this?" Did the Big Red try to schedule some marquee games at off hour times to get more eyeballs, or did it just work out that way? Are they playing games in recruiting hotbeds so kids can see the Big Red brand of lacrosse live, or are they just trying to escape Ithaca in February and March?

If Cornell has purposely leveraged the when and where of their schedule to be a visibility/recruiting tool, that's pretty slick. If it was just an accident, good for them.
RedIvy
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Re: Cornell 2020

Post by RedIvy »

Good questions and insight.

I have no inside information on Cornell’s scheduling but my guess is it’s all of the above. Yes we want to play in recruiting hotheads, yes we want to try to play early games outside of upstate New York, yes we want competitive out of conference games on our schedule, yes we want to set up 2 games in a weekend to prepare for tournament type play. I think all of this leads to being creative with your schedule and likely these objectives have created the opportunity for unique games dates and times. There are not a lot of teams from the south that want to come to Ithaca in late winter unless of course they can play in the Carrier Dome.....

My observation/guess is the Sunday games provide better travel days and times as well with less missed class time.

All speculation on my part....
stupefied
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Re: Cornell 2020

Post by stupefied »

PSU has Ament and OKeefe but how does PSU stop Cornell offense if Red get their fair share of possessions? Eager to watch this game
enterprise
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Re: Cornell 2020

Post by enterprise »

I think you are right about the reasoning for Sunday games, at least in part. Cornell coaches are limited in the amount of time student-athletes can miss classes for competition -- when I was involved with the program it was a total of 5 days for a spring sport [not including post-season games], which could be broken down into 1/2 day blocks. So leaving on a Saturday rather than Friday means no missed class time, even if that also means a long bus ride or flight home after a Sunday afternoon game. While not all the guys will get up for early Monday classes, at least that won't count as "official" missed time.

Some of the schedule may also reflect Feb and spring break since that means fewer missed days for travel. I know in the past there were mid-week games down south because of this.
ICGrad
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Re: Cornell 2020

Post by ICGrad »

Ezra White wrote: Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:26 pm
CU88 wrote: Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:57 am I know that Cornell will take quality shots; but I hope that they are patient when holding the ball in the offensive end. 4th quarter let down last Sunday was probably also due to some tired legs on D.
Yeah. One side to this is the overall game situation. If you're up by five goals with less than 8 minutes to go, you might milk the clock unless you have a sure shot. On the other side, anytime in the game you need to be aware that your defense may need a bit of a rest. Again, milking the clock a bit can be helpful.
Yeah, there was some terrible shot selection late in the game against OSU. I understand you want to display a killer instinct and put the game away, but that late in the game, an 80 second possession that doesn't result in a goal is almost as good as a 25-second possession that does (especially given their FO dominance). And of course is miles better than a 25 second possession that ends with a weak shot resulting in an easy save.
Ezra White
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Re: Cornell 2020

Post by Ezra White »

Regarding scheduling there's one additional consideration.

I haven't checked, but I'm sure the team has several players from the Baltimore area. Carolinas, I'm not so sure. But it's not unheard of coaches scheduling games in areas where players are from, just to give players more of a chance to play before family and friends.

This, and the occasional "demonstration" game in lacrosse non-hotspots, like the West Coast, Hawaii, or Europe, can itself be a useful recruiting tool.
RedIvy
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Re: Cornell 2020

Post by RedIvy »

Dixon acknowledged his inaccurate quote of Cornell’s FO stats in last weeks podcast in this weeks version (credit to Dixon for his correction). Also said for The Big Red to score as many goals as it did against Ohio State while wining very few FO’s and only getting 9 saves was testament to how powerful the offense is (maybe he didn’t see Ohio’s turnover stats....).

Similar to thoughts on this thread he thinks it will be a high scoring game. Penn State at 54% at FO X season to date (note big difficency against Yale) Big Red at 53% (with big diffency to Ohio State). IMO, Yale and Ohio State have two of the best FOGO’s in D1 Lacrosse. I don’t think that you can compare FO chances with these stats at this point (maybe later in the season will be more of an indicator) however I think we can be much more competitive than last year in this stat.

I agree with comment about not letting Penn State get off to such a fast start. I think this is a Tambroni trate, when he was at Cornell we were known for this as well. I’ve watched his pre-game prep and it’s very intensive, even saw sprints before 2009 Princeton quarter finals game at Hofstra in 2009. We also ran out of gas sometimes too..... I think PM is the opposite in his pre-game warm up approach.
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ChairmanOfTheBoard
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Re: Cornell 2020

Post by ChairmanOfTheBoard »

There are 29,413,039 corporations in America; but only one Chairman of the Board.
Trumansburger
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Re: Cornell 2020

Post by Trumansburger »

RedIvy wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:43 pm

I agree with comment about not letting Penn State get off to such a fast start. I think this is a Tambroni trate, when he was at Cornell we were known for this as well. I’ve watched his pre-game prep and it’s very intensive, even saw sprints before 2009 Princeton quarter finals game at Hofstra in 2009. We also ran out of gas sometimes too..... I think PM is the opposite in his pre-game warm up approach.
Yes. The only team to beat Penn State the past two seasons (so far) is Yale, and they did it 3 times. In the last 2 games it was Yale that got off to the fast start, 10-1 in last year's NCAA tournament and 6-1 last month in Happy Valley. In the 3 losses, PSU came back to make the games close.
faircornell
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Re: Cornell 2020

Post by faircornell »

Based on social media, it looks like the team flys out of Syracuse Saturday morning.
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