Johns Hopkins 2020

[johnnyonthegunpowder]

Epstein would still be on the sideline if I had the call. He can't even plant to shoot. His entire motion is in his arms. He looks fragile just celebrating a goal with the team. It's nuts he's on the field at all, imo. Get to know what guns are in the arsenal, who has energy, who can you start building up....Instead, the risk is all for naught, and you know that going into the Princeton game.

[veryoldgoose]

Epstein would still be on the sideline if I had the call. He can't even plant to shoot. His entire motion is in his arms. He looks fragile just celebrating a goal with the team. It's nuts he's on the field at all, imo. Get to know what guns are in the arsenal, who has energy, who can you start building up....Instead, the risk is all for naught, and you know that going into the Princeton game.

Agreed. As I said earlier, its almost negligent that the coaching staff is allowing him to play.

[Mightyjoe]

Epstein would still be on the sideline if I had the call. He can't even plant to shoot. His entire motion is in his arms. He looks fragile just celebrating a goal with the team. It's nuts he's on the field at all, imo. Get to know what guns are in the arsenal, who has energy, who can you start building up....Instead, the risk is all for naught, and you know that going into the Princeton game.

I would agree. We have the arsenal. Again, we hear a lot about Epstein and a lot about Petro.
We need to be talking more about our dear Bobby. What has he contributed.
If I recall (and noted recently) we had a pretty productive fall ball in which Epstein wasn’t present for most of the UPenn game.....look it up. Although a small sample, we looked different. What’s different now? Why do we look like a bunch of robots out on offense. Why can’t we produce like we did in the fall. Do they follow Bobby, do they want to win for him?

[HopFan16]

Epstein would still be on the sideline if I had the call. He can't even plant to shoot. His entire motion is in his arms. He looks fragile just celebrating a goal with the team. It's nuts he's on the field at all, imo. Get to know what guns are in the arsenal, who has energy, who can you start building up....Instead, the risk is all for naught, and you know that going into the Princeton game.

I would agree. We have the arsenal. Again, we hear a lot about Epstein and a lot about Petro.
We need to be talking more about our dear Bobby. What has he contributed.
If I recall (and noted recently) we had a pretty productive fall ball in which Epstein wasn’t present for most of the UPenn game.....look it up. Although a small sample, we looked different. What’s different now? Why do we look like a bunch of robots out on offense. Why can’t we produce like we did in the fall. Do they follow Bobby, do they want to win for him?

Didn’t we lose something like 9-6 to Penn in the fall?

Regardless, you don’t have to go that far back to see the offense play well without Epstein. They did it against Towson. Granted, Towson is not a good team this year (thus far) but they do have some talent on D. The glaring difference on offense in that game vs. three losses, of course, was Williams had a big day. (DeSimone did too). But it’s pretty clear we’re going nowhere unless the big guy steps up fast. There just aren’t any other consistent dodging threats with Epstein immobile. Princeton smartly put a pole on Zinn. I think the days of him getting matched with shorties are over. Murphy finally got some real playing time and responded with three goals. It’s time they do the same for Angelus. If he gets more time, he will produce. And he can dodge.

[Mightyjoe]

Epstein would still be on the sideline if I had the call. He can't even plant to shoot. His entire motion is in his arms. He looks fragile just celebrating a goal with the team. It's nuts he's on the field at all, imo. Get to know what guns are in the arsenal, who has energy, who can you start building up....Instead, the risk is all for naught, and you know that going into the Princeton game.

I would agree. We have the arsenal. Again, we hear a lot about Epstein and a lot about Petro.
We need to be talking more about our dear Bobby. What has he contributed.
If I recall (and noted recently) we had a pretty productive fall ball in which Epstein wasn’t present for most of the UPenn game.....look it up. Although a small sample, we looked different. What’s different now? Why do we look like a bunch of robots out on offense. Why can’t we produce like we did in the fall. Do they follow Bobby, do they want to win for him?

Didn’t we lose something like 9-6 to Penn in the fall?

Regardless, you don’t have to go that far back to see the offense play well without Epstein. They did it against Towson. Granted, Towson is not a good team this year (thus far) but they do have some talent on D. The glaring difference on offense in that game vs. three losses, of course, was Williams had a big day. (DeSimone did too). But it’s pretty clear we’re going nowhere unless the big guy steps up fast. There just aren’t any other consistent dodging threats with Epstein immobile. Princeton smartly put a pole on Zinn. I think the days of him getting matched with shorties are over. Murphy finally got some real playing time and responded with three goals. It’s time they do the same for Angelus. If he gets more time, he will produce. And he can dodge.

Aside from Townsend (0-4) I believe you’ve seen the output of Deso for the year. Very similar to last year, yet it solidified his starting spot for the season. They will not succeed if they keep hoping to do the same thing over and over with all the players and expecting different results.......insanity.

[jhu06]

-the coaching staff and players spent a lot of their offseason/preseason softball interviews-which didn't go to teams that have had better seasons using gauzy terms about improvement/accountability. Pick an interview and show me where we see it every week?
-Epsteins' injury isn't the reason we're in the situation. it's the difference between losing games by big margins and smaller margins not winning games and losing games. Hard to ask a kid who can walk to quit on his 1-3 team with a hated rival 1 in the country coming to campus.
-I'm not buying williams is sick so go easy on him. He was well enough to score goals, he tells the coaches he's well enough to play. Come up with something else.
-with all the talk about our top 100 recruits over the last decade they haven't become top may performers or top college all americans.
-The goalie the sucks again and the coach doesn't have the stones to pull him, the defense sucks and the coach doesn't have the stones to pull them, the coaching sucks and none of it matters, or kids were over recruited and none of it matters. Regardless, it's the same result and it's across the field where underachieving kids are promoted into jobs, fail terribly at them and get to keep them while destroying a season even though there are kids w/similar or better hs credentials sitting on the bench.
-Maybe I'm old school but why do we need different uniform combos every week? Last weeks looked like a 1970s grandma couch.
-Lacrosse media whines constantly that it wants to be taken seriously like a big boy sport. Give me 3,000 words on 2009-2020 hopkins lacrosse suckage and "growth of the game"doesn't count when cuse/twerpu/uva/pete carrill u are top 7. Give me espn announcers critically analyzing a game and calling out players who grab gbs, can't do their jobs.
-Connor Disimone, Forry, Baskin, matt hubler, owen colwell, jared reinson, ryan darby, cole williams they've been the stars of a lot of rival game recaps during their tenures, we don't have anyone better on the bench ready to go?

[Chitown]

-the coaching staff and players spent a lot of their offseason/preseason softball interviews-which didn't go to teams that have had better seasons using gauzy terms about improvement/accountability. Pick an interview and show me where we see it every week?
-Epsteins' injury isn't the reason we're in the situation. it's the difference between losing games by big margins and smaller margins not winning games and losing games. Hard to ask a kid who can walk to quit on his 1-3 team with a hated rival 1 in the country coming to campus.
-I'm not buying williams is sick so go easy on him. He was well enough to score goals, he tells the coaches he's well enough to play. Come up with something else.
-with all the talk about our top 100 recruits over the last decade they haven't become top may performers or top college all americans.
-The goalie the sucks again and the coach doesn't have the stones to pull him, the defense sucks and the coach doesn't have the stones to pull them, the coaching sucks and none of it matters, or kids were over recruited and none of it matters. Regardless, it's the same result and it's across the field where underachieving kids are promoted into jobs, fail terribly at them and get to keep them while destroying a season even though there are kids w/similar or better hs credentials sitting on the bench.
-Maybe I'm old school but why do we need different uniform combos every week? Last weeks looked like a 1970s grandma couch.
-Lacrosse media whines constantly that it wants to be taken seriously like a big boy sport. Give me 3,000 words on 2009-2020 hopkins lacrosse suckage and "growth of the game"doesn't count when cuse/twerpu/uva/pete carrill u are top 7. Give me espn announcers critically analyzing a game and calling out players who grab gbs, can't do their jobs.
-Connor Disimone, Forry, Baskin, matt hubler, owen colwell, jared reinson, ryan darby, cole williams they've been the stars of a lot of rival game recaps during their tenures, we don't have anyone better on the bench ready to go?

Oh my! I don't mean to individually criticize you 06 as I understand the frustration of the past 10-12 years, It has been sad to see something that has been so exceptional in all of sports go into such a decline. For what it is worth, here are some random thoughts.

1. Never ever criticize individual Hopkins lacrosse players. They all are playing to win. They don't want to lose. They are putting forth a lot of effort in practice and during games. Honor that effort. I don't know any former players who are not rooting for the players and team to succeed.

2. Lets not say "stupid stuff" like the defense needs to play more aggressively. People must know that the players get a very detailed scouting report on every opponent and every player that they will face. Every week, The Defense and Offense are adjusted for the schemes, strengths, and weaknesses of the team that you will face. One "size" doesn't fit all teams on the schedule.

3. The Coaches are "fair game". They get paid well to prepare the players for each weeks opponent. If the Team looks ill-prepared, it is the Coaches fault -- the buck stops with them. There has been one "constant" the last decade, and it has not been the Players. It is the Coaches. The Coaches should NEVER go on TV and criticize their players or their practice habits.

4. This season just needs to Play Out. JHU recruits itself for lacrosse. Always has. Just needs the skillful and unified combination of good Coaches and Players. It will happen again. Go Blue.

[Homer]

I'm not so sure a rebound won't happen.
Will that be enough to renew hope that the next couple of years will show marked improvement?
I dunno, but I DO know that there's a sense that they have two excellent incoming classes.

I think it would depend on how big of a rebound we're talking about. I agree there's a decent chance the team bounces back to some extent, if only through simple mean-reversion -- you're not going to lose by 7 every week.

My take, though, would be this. If you're Hopkins, you went into last offseason with the program having had extremely similar results 3 of the past 4 seasons: 8-6 or 8-7 regular season, back into the NCAAs with a couple high-end wins, lose in the first round (badly). You're not looking at erratic results where you need more time to figure out if the program's coming or going; you're looking at a very stable baseline of performance. And apparently that baseline wasn't enough to get Petro's contract extended at the time. Without having any knowledge of exactly what the standard for retaining the staff beyond 2020 might be, it seems reasonable to assume it involves some nontrivial improvement on last year's result. Otherwise why not just do the extension already?

So if we're talking about a turnaround that includes 10+ wins, or a Big Ten title, or winning an NCAA game, then we're getting into a more interesting conversation. But if we're just talking "Petro confirms ability to do exact same thing he's done 4 years running" + "next two classes look good," then that's nothing Hopkins didn't know in June 2019. And if they didn't extend him then and do extend him now (under that hypothetical), I don't really understand the rationality of that decision.

[Dip&Dunk]

1. Never ever criticize individual Hopkins lacrosse players. They all are playing to win. They don't want to lose. They are putting forth a lot of effort in practice and during games. Honor that effort. I don't know any former players who are not rooting for the players and team to succeed.

+1. The more you know, the less you should say.

[MDlaxfan76]

I'm not so sure a rebound won't happen.
Will that be enough to renew hope that the next couple of years will show marked improvement?
I dunno, but I DO know that there's a sense that they have two excellent incoming classes.

I think it would depend on how big of a rebound we're talking about. I agree there's a decent chance the team bounces back to some extent, if only through simple mean-reversion -- you're not going to lose by 7 every week.

My take, though, would be this. If you're Hopkins, you went into last offseason with the program having had extremely similar results 3 of the past 4 seasons: 8-6 or 8-7 regular season, back into the NCAAs with a couple high-end wins, lose in the first round (badly). You're not looking at erratic results where you need more time to figure out if the program's coming or going; you're looking at a very stable baseline of performance. And apparently that baseline wasn't enough to get Petro's contract extended at the time. Without having any knowledge of exactly what the standard for retaining the staff beyond 2020 might be, it seems reasonable to assume it involves some nontrivial improvement on last year's result. Otherwise why not just do the extension already?

So if we're talking about a turnaround that includes 10+ wins, or a Big Ten title, or winning an NCAA game, then we're getting into a more interesting conversation. But if we're just talking "Petro confirms ability to do exact same thing he's done 4 years running" + "next two classes look good," then that's nothing Hopkins didn't know in June 2019. And if they didn't extend him then and do extend him now (under that hypothetical), I don't really understand the rationality of that decision.

That's a fair and rational analysis.
It may come down to what a handful of key alums think.

[steel_hop]

I'm not so sure a rebound won't happen.
Will that be enough to renew hope that the next couple of years will show marked improvement?
I dunno, but I DO know that there's a sense that they have two excellent incoming classes.

I think it would depend on how big of a rebound we're talking about. I agree there's a decent chance the team bounces back to some extent, if only through simple mean-reversion -- you're not going to lose by 7 every week.

My take, though, would be this. If you're Hopkins, you went into last offseason with the program having had extremely similar results 3 of the past 4 seasons: 8-6 or 8-7 regular season, back into the NCAAs with a couple high-end wins, lose in the first round (badly). You're not looking at erratic results where you need more time to figure out if the program's coming or going; you're looking at a very stable baseline of performance. And apparently that baseline wasn't enough to get Petro's contract extended at the time. Without having any knowledge of exactly what the standard for retaining the staff beyond 2020 might be, it seems reasonable to assume it involves some nontrivial improvement on last year's result. Otherwise why not just do the extension already?

So if we're talking about a turnaround that includes 10+ wins, or a Big Ten title, or winning an NCAA game, then we're getting into a more interesting conversation. But if we're just talking "Petro confirms ability to do exact same thing he's done 4 years running" + "next two classes look good," then that's nothing Hopkins didn't know in June 2019. And if they didn't extend him then and do extend him now (under that hypothetical), I don't really understand the rationality of that decision.

I think it will be very easy for Hopkins to lose most games on their schedule by 7. You don't think SU, UMd, PSU and others don't want to absolutely kill Hopkins. I'd bet given the chance Rutgers would try to beat Hopkins by double digits. Hopkins is not good. They have a goalie (for now) that can't stop outside shots and is terrible at clearing. Their defense is slow and can't man players up which isn't good when the coach continues to push a round hole through a square peg by playing man when he should be in zone (at least some of the time).

Not to be ignored, the offense consists of throwing the ball around the outside or getting a guy behind and watch as slow small guys try to cut to get open. When that doesn't work (and it hasn't work all year), it is run like you are a chicken with your head cut off with 10 seconds until the shot clock goes off. Instead of pushing the pace of play and trying to score easy goals in transitition Petro has doubled down on the choke the ball strategy that wasn't working the last 5-6 years and is even worse in the shot clock era.

As for Petro's contract, the worst thing a coach can be in for team chemistry, strategy, performance, and the like is in the last year of his contract. He should have been fired last year (I would have preferred it 6+ years ago) or given an extension (not what I would want). The unanswerable question of his contract looms over the team under the subconcentious view of "If he isn't going to be here next year why should I care what he says." Twisting in the wind is the worst thing the program could be right now.

[ohmilax34]

Hopkins has its back against the wall. Syracuse doesn't quite have as much to play for. I think this will be a very close game and it wouldn't surprise me if JHU wins. Syracuse also has a few players dinged up, and it's possible they won't play.

[viper]

11- not sure if you were trying to make the point that JHU should be wary of moving on from Petro to minimize the risk of losing current players or recruits, but I find that a poor reason for keeping a coach around.

The vast majority of recruits choose the program, not the coach. How many players/recruits left UVa when Starsia was dismissed? And how many Brown players followed Tiffany to UVa?

I agree with what you are saying, but things do happen. I believe Connor Schellenberger (2019 number 1 IL recruit) changed his commitment from JHU to UVA after Tiffany was announced as HC.

[viper]

I think Epstein is a competitor, he will never win one at Hopkins, he will be doomed to .500 seasons. Gray did not stay at Boston U, he saw the writing on the wall.

Yeah, not winning is totally why Gray left BU.

I sense (and am hopeful for sarcasm there). How many players commit to BU with the expectation of a National Championship????

[stupefied]

1. Never ever criticize individual Hopkins lacrosse players. They all are playing to win. They don't want to lose. They are putting forth a lot of effort in practice and during games. Honor that effort. I don't know any former players who are not rooting for the players and team to succeed.

+1. The more you know, the less you should say.

Agree.

[Catbird]

Hopkins has its back against the wall. Syracuse doesn't quite have as much to play for. I think this will be a very close game and it wouldn't surprise me if JHU wins. Syracuse also has a few players dinged up, and it's possible they won't play.

You are kind but it will be a bloodbath. Maybe the 1st quarter will be close, but all Syracuse needs to do is put their shots on net and they will win going away.

[Catbird]

I'm not so sure a rebound won't happen.
Will that be enough to renew hope that the next couple of years will show marked improvement?
I dunno, but I DO know that there's a sense that they have two excellent incoming classes.

I think it would depend on how big of a rebound we're talking about. I agree there's a decent chance the team bounces back to some extent, if only through simple mean-reversion -- you're not going to lose by 7 every week.

My take, though, would be this. If you're Hopkins, you went into last offseason with the program having had extremely similar results 3 of the past 4 seasons: 8-6 or 8-7 regular season, back into the NCAAs with a couple high-end wins, lose in the first round (badly). You're not looking at erratic results where you need more time to figure out if the program's coming or going; you're looking at a very stable baseline of performance. And apparently that baseline wasn't enough to get Petro's contract extended at the time. Without having any knowledge of exactly what the standard for retaining the staff beyond 2020 might be, it seems reasonable to assume it involves some nontrivial improvement on last year's result. Otherwise why not just do the extension already?

So if we're talking about a turnaround that includes 10+ wins, or a Big Ten title, or winning an NCAA game, then we're getting into a more interesting conversation. But if we're just talking "Petro confirms ability to do exact same thing he's done 4 years running" + "next two classes look good," then that's nothing Hopkins didn't know in June 2019. And if they didn't extend him then and do extend him now (under that hypothetical), I don't really understand the rationality of that decision.

This is a good take. The most worrisome thing about all this is that the administration let it get to this point without making any decision one way or another. As you said, this is not a case of needing more information to make a decision.

[tech37]

Hopkins has its back against the wall. Syracuse doesn't quite have as much to play for. I think this will be a very close game and it wouldn't surprise me if JHU wins. Syracuse also has a few players dinged up, and it's possible they won't play.

You are kind but it will be a bloodbath. Maybe the 1st quarter will be close, but all Syracuse needs to do is put their shots on net and they will win going away.

Disagree...this will be a tight game

[MDlaxfan76]

11- not sure if you were trying to make the point that JHU should be wary of moving on from Petro to minimize the risk of losing current players or recruits, but I find that a poor reason for keeping a coach around.

The vast majority of recruits choose the program, not the coach. How many players/recruits left UVa when Starsia was dismissed? And how many Brown players followed Tiffany to UVa?

I agree with what you are saying, but things do happen. I believe Connor Schellenberger (2019 number 1 IL recruit) changed his commitment from JHU to UVA after Tiffany was announced as HC.

Correct; when coaches change, some coaches don't honor all of the prior commitments. And some recruits view alternative destinations with a new coach with new interest. Both can and do happen. Not a lot, but certainly some.

In the UVA situation, most inbound recruits likely saw the change as a positive, or at least not a strong negative, and a few who were headed elsewhere specifically because they didn't vibe with the Starsia staff may have looked afresh. Different answer perhaps for some of the players already at UVA, some of whom were cut, quit, or dismissed in the turnover process. Tiffany was pretty explicit about wanting to drive a culture change. That may have been attractive to some guys, unattractive to others.

[jhu06]

1. Never ever criticize individual Hopkins lacrosse players. They all are playing to win. They don't want to lose. They are putting forth a lot of effort in practice and during games. Honor that effort. I don't know any former players who are not rooting for the players and team to succeed.

+1. The more you know, the less you should say.

Agree.

9-13 in last 22. 13 losses should be a career not 1.25 seasons.