VIRGINIA LACROSSE 2020

[DMac]

Syracuse beat Army because of their GK play, not their FOGO's (which was outstanding).
Cuse GK had 18 saves, Army GK had 16, both teams had 25 SOGs.
How many of Cuse's goals were scored on a face off win possession (I don't know)?

To answer your question, TLD, I don't know but it wouldn't surprise me if the outcome of the game was the same even with those numbers.

[Dip&Dunk]

Some thoughts watching the game:

(A) Again, a shout out UVA's strength and conditioning program. Another game where it made a difference.
(B) HU's FOGO getting blown up and injured was a major play in the game. No comments/video on how this happened. If it was a legal hit show it and complement UVA for being physical and legal. If it was illegal, show it, state why and discuss impact on sport. Either way, show it.
(C) Just call it: Buckshot's run through the defense was a ward plain and simple: Call it.. (and BTW he is a beast and has great hands) Breaking your stick in half on a player is a great way of saying i just cross checked the &*^% out of my player: call it. A player with his knees locked and then is made to go face down in the crease with a player directly behind him with his stick against his back is a push from behind: call it.
(D) Good analysis on UVA's goalie cheating low to 5 hole.
(E) Great game but lets slow down a little on the UVA offensive hype. Spectacular goals and spectacular TO's even it out and that is what we are seeing right now when UVA has the ball.
(F) Inre B above, UVA's FOGO first move was quicker on each FO. He does however need to pass it more often to his hyped offense.
(G) Finally, still getting the impression UVA is not "there" yet on both sides of the ball. Question is, as we enter just March, is when and if they will get "there". Certainly based on last year, the answer is yes they will get there, now its just when.

[wgdsr]

Syracuse beat Army because of their GK play, not their FOGO's (which was outstanding).
Cuse GK had 18 saves, Army GK had 16, both teams had 25 SOGs.
How many of Cuse's goals were scored on a face off win possession (I don't know)?

To answer your question, TLD, I don't know but it wouldn't surprise me if the outcome of the game was the same even with those numbers.

we'll agree to disagree!!
no way syracuse wins if they have 13 fewer possessions and have to defend 13 more times. or even much less than that.
the rest of their play (including gk) was barely enough as they underperformed vs. army in general (minus faceoffs).

[DMac]

Yup, we'll agree to disagree, it's all good.
Ultimately, IMO, it's the better team that usually wins (you've got to have it all), not the team with the better FOGO.
Loyola sure doesn't win the NC in '12 if face wins games (went 4-24 for the week-end but won the title), they just had the better all around team.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Syracuse beat Army because of their GK play, not their FOGO's (which was outstanding).
Cuse GK had 18 saves, Army GK had 16, both teams had 25 SOGs.
How many of Cuse's goals were scored on a face off win possession (I don't know)?

To answer your question, TLD, I don't know but it wouldn't surprise me if the outcome of the game was the same even with those numbers.

It takes more that Faceoffs to win. After watching my son’s team be disadvantaged at the spot for 4 years, it makes a difference possession after possession, game after game, week after week. It wears on a team. You can scheme round it and over come it. How about just starting every possession on defense if it makes no difference.

[NElaxtalent]

Some thoughts watching the game:

(C) Just call it: Buckshot's run through the defense was a ward plain and simple: Call it.. (and BTW he is a beast and has great hands) Breaking your stick in half on a player is a great way of saying i just cross checked the &*^% out of my player: call it. A player with his knees locked and then is made to go face down in the crease with a player directly behind him with his stick against his back is a push from behind: call it.

Agree, clear ward (& possibly 2 diff wards lol). However, from what was shown (& the ref's signal) I think the refs got the crease call right. Buckshot's right foot was on the crease BEFORE the push from behind. That whistle kills the play unless there is a personal foul (but not a technical foul). Just my $0.02

[DMac]

I get and appreciate that, TLD and as I've said I'd much rather win the face off than lose it but it's just not as big of a deal to me as it is to most. I've watched Cuse make it to Memorial Day when the weakest part of their game was face offs (to the point that JD embarrassed this Cuse fan with his do away with the face off nonsense) and I've watched them get knocked out in the first round when face offs was their strong point (Ben Williams). As I've said, I believe the better team usaually wins and face offs is just one part of the game, you need a complete team to win not just the best FOGO.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I get and appreciate that, TLD and as I've said I'd much rather win the face off than lose it but it's just not as big of a deal to me as it is to most. I've watched Cuse make it to Memorial Day when the weakest part of their game was face offs (to the point that JD embarrassed this Cuse fan with his do away with the face off nonsense) and I've watched them get knocked out in the first round when face offs was their strong point (Ben Williams). As I've said, I believe the better team usaually wins and face offs is just one part of the game, you need a complete team to win not just the best FOGO.

It’s not the only factor and you can overcome it but it’s better to have TD than someone not competitive, all things being equal. Assisted goals, shooting percentage and turnovers are more important, in my opinion, but a good FOGO all things equal, relieves some pressure. Ben Williams always wore down as the season went on.

[MDlaxfan76]

I get and appreciate that, TLD and as I've said I'd much rather win the face off than lose it but it's just not as big of a deal to me as it is to most. I've watched Cuse make it to Memorial Day when the weakest part of their game was face offs (to the point that JD embarrassed this Cuse fan with his do away with the face off nonsense) and I've watched them get knocked out in the first round when face offs was their strong point (Ben Williams). As I've said, I believe the better team usaually wins and face offs is just one part of the game, you need a complete team to win not just the best FOGO.

This is certainly true, it's the aggregation of factors and performances that adds up to the W or L.

But when we look at any particular game we can definitely say whether FO's played a substantial role, or not...in that game. A team can overcome a FO differential, but when all else is close, goaltending, other GB's, TO's etc, and the FO is a big difference, well, we can say the FO differential explained the outcome.

I think that's all that was being said about the Syracuse game, if I understood correctly.

TLD makes an interesting additional point that FO differential can be a season long challenge that can really wear on a team...not that it can't be overcome, but it sure does make it a lot harder.

I watched my son's team struggle again and again at X and GB's generally, and yes, sometimes they managed to win against good teams nevertheless, often with a differential in the net, but they also lost close games against good teams that otherwise would have been won with even 40% X play much less 50%. Painful.

[stupefied]

There were just 19 faceoffs in game not fifty .What you do with ball after the win is what matters most. Savio wins 23 of 24 and Loyola barely gets by . In natty chip ,would argue that LaSalla outplayed Ierlan despite losses given his rushes on wins into unsettled situations .Orange offense didn't excecute particularly well for much of game and Army had time possession for better part despite losing faceoffs. Every facet of game matters but goalie play to me is more critical than faceoffs . Hot ones can win losable games, cold ones can lose winnable games .Both goalies in that game played well, performance of either would have tilted in most games

[tech37]

Syracuse beat Army because of their GK play, not their FOGO's (which was outstanding).
Cuse GK had 18 saves, Army GK had 16, both teams had 25 SOGs.
How many of Cuse's goals were scored on a face off win possession (I don't know)?

To answer your question, TLD, I don't know but it wouldn't surprise me if the outcome of the game was the same even with those numbers.

It takes more that Faceoffs to win. After watching my son’s team be disadvantaged at the spot for 4 years, it makes a difference possession after possession, game after game, week after week. It wears on a team. You can scheme round it and over come it. How about just starting every possession on defense if it makes no difference.

I thought he played a year or two with Currier?

[DMac]

we'll agree to disagree!!

Again, yes...and respectfully.
Just find this one irresistable, Hop girls just beat GT 15-14.
Hop was 4-26 on draws.
Check the winning goal and assist out...wow!
https://twitter.com/HopkinsLacrosse/sta ... 52640?s=20

[Typical Lax Dad]

we'll agree to disagree!!

Again, yes...and respectfully.
Just find this one irresistable, Hop girls just beat GT 15-14.
Hop was 4-26 on draws.
Check the winning goal and assist out...wow!
https://twitter.com/HopkinsLacrosse/sta ... 52640?s=20

I love the women’s game!

[HGK25]

Little cherry picking of stats there DMAC. Georgetown women’s goalies saved under 12%. Hopkins goalie 49%. That probably offset the draw differential slightly

[DMac]

Nope, not cherry picking. The discussion was about face offs/draws wins games.
This is just an example of that not being so accurate...complete teams/the better team wins games. I've always maintained that face off/draw wins is over rated....that's all I'm saying here.

[HGK25]

Totally Fair. And all i was pointing out was that deficiency at another “specialized” position can offset domination at the face off/draw. Now back to the UVA men’s lacrosse discussion.

[wgdsr]

There were just 19 faceoffs in game not fifty .What you do with ball after the win is what matters most. Savio wins 23 of 24 and Loyola barely gets by . In natty chip ,would argue that LaSalla outplayed Ierlan despite losses given his rushes on wins into unsettled situations .Orange offense didn't excecute particularly well for much of game and Army had time possession for better part despite losing faceoffs. Every facet of game matters but goalie play to me is more critical than faceoffs . Hot ones can win losable games, cold ones can lose winnable games .Both goalies in that game played well, performance of either would have tilted in most games

and syracuse and loyola needed almost every one of those faceoffs or likely take an L.

[wgdsr]

we'll agree to disagree!!

Again, yes...and respectfully.
Just find this one irresistable, Hop girls just beat GT 15-14.
Hop was 4-26 on draws.
Check the winning goal and assist out...wow!
https://twitter.com/HopkinsLacrosse/sta ... 52640?s=20

hop was much better at everything else (cumulative) and all those faceoffs gave gt the only chance they had to win.

[MDlaxfan76]

Syracuse beat Army because of their GK play, not their FOGO's (which was outstanding).
Cuse GK had 18 saves, Army GK had 16, both teams had 25 SOGs.
How many of Cuse's goals were scored on a face off win possession (I don't know)?

To answer your question, TLD, I don't know but it wouldn't surprise me if the outcome of the game was the same even with those numbers.

It takes more that Faceoffs to win. After watching my son’s team be disadvantaged at the spot for 4 years, it makes a difference possession after possession, game after game, week after week. It wears on a team. You can scheme round it and over come it. How about just starting every possession on defense if it makes no difference.

I thought he played a year or two with Currier?

PU was below 50% in 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019...

Currier did have a knack for losing the draw but winning the ensuing battle by ragging the opposing FOGO relentlessly.

[DMac]

we'll agree to disagree!!

Again, yes...and respectfully.
Just find this one irresistable, Hop girls just beat GT 15-14.
Hop was 4-26 on draws.
Check the winning goal and assist out...wow!
https://twitter.com/HopkinsLacrosse/sta ... 52640?s=20

hop was much better at everything else (cumulative) and all those faceoffs gave gt the only chance they had to win.

Isn't that like saying draws/face offs don't really mean all that much, it's what your team can do with the ball once they get it that matters? The better team will, more often than not, win. Not so much the team who just has the best FOGO/draw specialist.
Not so sure about that "likely take an L" part either....maybe, but not likely.