Conservatives and Liberals

[RedFromMI]

Whether you believe abortion is murder is a direct function of when you think that _human_ life begins. Before Roe vs. Wade, only the Roman Catholic church among large Christian communities within the US had theological beliefs of that being the point of conception. Moral majority movement however began to change that (along with the conservative takeover of the SBC theological schools in the 80s).

There are OT scriptures that indicate the moment that human life begins is at actual birth - and others that provide differing punishments for an injury to a woman who loses a pregnancy vs. killing a child. So there is some further interpretation necessary to get to conception at the point of birth (mostly pointing at scripture about God knowing someone while in the womb).

One of the basic underlying assumptions of Roe vs. Wade is the dividing line was set at independent viability of an infant. That is why the two trimester rule - we still have not really figured out how to take an infant before 24 weeks gestation and have a realistic chance of survival outside a mother's womb.

[jhu72]

Abortions should be very rare, safe, and legal. That has been the party line message from the FLP folks for a very long time.

You know what gets rid of lots of abortions? Free contraception. Especially "long acting reversible contraceptives." Here's a program Hickenlooper supported out here in Colorado (with private funding from Warren Buffett).

In fiscal year 2009, the state’s low-income “Title X” clinics reported they had provided LARCs to about 2,000 patients. That number had tripled within three years. Today, the state released new data on the program. It reports that:

The birth rate for young women ages 15 to 19 fell by 54 percent, to 17.1 per 1,000 people, from 2009 to 2016.
The clinics provided about 44,000 free or low-cost long-term contraceptives in that period.
The abortion rate for women ages 15 to 19 fell by 64 percent.
A University of Colorado study estimated that social services avoided spending $70 million because fewer children needed them.

So if you are pro-life, then you should be happy about the fact that Obamacare and Medicaid require free contraceptives, including LARCs. More effective at preventing abortions than just about anything else you could do.

FLP and pro-life!

+1

This is why I simply don't understand prolifers. If they REALLY think it's murder? Why the firetruck wouldn't you link up with libs to provide free birth control and free prenatal care? The libs would be OVERJOYED for the help, and would sign up for that in a New York Minute.

Unwanted pregnancies would plummet. Everyone wins.

I don't get it.

72 misses it and you guys should get it. Punishment isn’t the goal, but these cats believe in sex only for the explicit purpose of procreation and it is otherwise immoral or ungodly. It would be incongruous to support something that was generally available to in any way support such activities.

I don’t agree with this even though my wife is our church warden (that’s my gym time, I go for Xmas and Easter basically), but you guys are smart enough to know this.

Exactly, and what is their desired outcome for not obeying their gods law? Punishment! Be made to carry the child to term no matter what the real world consequences for the mother or the child. Punishment by man - not god, is their goal. This is the minimum sentence that would be meted out by these people, the worst of their ilk would argue for imprisonment of the mother or more. It is your god's law - let him/her/it handle the punishment.

[Farfromgeneva]

I’m not very up to speed on religion but I do believe there was a New Testament written at some point.

[ggait]

Punishment isn’t the goal, but these cats believe in sex only for the explicit purpose of procreation and it is otherwise immoral or ungodly.

That's fine. But since only 5% of U.S. women today are virgins at the time of marriage, maybe our public policy should take into account what the 95+% of people actually do? Just a thought.

You want to stop abortion, aggressively promote/provide free contraception. Think Planned Parenthood and Obamacare, not who gets to replace Notorious RBG. While you'll never keep Sandra Fluke from doing the nasty, you probably can keep her from getting pregnant and getting an abortion.

Do that, and it really wouldn't matter that much whether Roe v. Wade is/isn't kept/overturned.

P.S. And pretty much all Catholics (including every Catholic priest I know) think that the contraceptive ban is stupid and theologically challenged. How else to explain all those 2 and 3 kid families I see at Mass every weekend?

[jhu72]

I’m not very up to speed on religion but I do believe there was a New Testament written at some point.

Some of these church ladies need to read it! If they really believe it is a sin to have an abortion, they need to let it go and let their god deal with it. Forgive the sinner - the New Testament approach.

There is wide spread agreement on the desire to minimize the number, from all across the political spectrum. That is already being achieved. We have the ability from a technical perspective to make abortions extremely rare, but that is not good enough for these people. They want all of society to be forced - yes forced, through sanctions, punishments, to bend a knee to their god.

[cradleandshoot]

Whether you believe abortion is murder is a direct function of when you think that _human_ life begins. Before Roe vs. Wade, only the Roman Catholic church among large Christian communities within the US had theological beliefs of that being the point of conception. Moral majority movement however began to change that (along with the conservative takeover of the SBC theological schools in the 80s).

There are OT scriptures that indicate the moment that human life begins is at actual birth - and others that provide differing punishments for an injury to a woman who loses a pregnancy vs. killing a child. So there is some further interpretation necessary to get to conception at the point of birth (mostly pointing at scripture about God knowing someone while in the womb).

One of the basic underlying assumptions of Roe vs. Wade is the dividing line was set at independent viability of an infant. That is why the two trimester rule - we still have not really figured out how to take an infant before 24 weeks gestation and have a realistic chance of survival outside a mother's womb.

I despise and detest abortion, always have and always will. The old catholic in me still believes it is murder and as a catholic I was a complete failure in the faith I was raised in. My wife as a young RN was responsible for a time of being in the procedure room when the "fetus" was evacuated from the mothers womb. If any damn one of you was in that room and could witness up close and personal watching the fetus being evacuated, I bet none of you would not vomit and cry. My wife back then wanted desperately to have a baby, she was never able to become pregnant. The heartbreak of going to work and comforting women who willingly aborted their babies when you wanted what they were giving up. There is also the torment of a young nurse having to comfort these same women who were beside themselves with grief over what they had just done. They don't teach you how to do that in nursing school. Abortion should not only be rare it should be almost unheard of in our society. If there is to be money made from the selling of the parts of these aborted babies... then we as a nation are no better than the Nazis who dreamed up the final solution. I know many of you out there disagree with me vehemently. When my wife who has been there and seen it up close and personal tells me abortion is murder, I will agree with her all day long. She paid her dues and cried a lifetimes worth of tears in the process. I dare ANY of you to have this chat with my wife, you all try and explain to her what a great thing abortion is to our country.

[Farfromgeneva]

Ggait, don’t disagree, but if one believes that the “pure” or “literal” islamists have an absolute view than surely you’d believe that “literal”/“pure” Christians do as well. They want their religion to also be secular law in their country. Almost have to ignore that cohort.

Cradle, 2.5yrs ago we had a “mistake” pregnancy. I had just quit my job in a Jerry McGuire moment and was making a few bucks hiring myself out as a consultant but it was not a good time and we weren’t sure we wanted a 3rd w a 2&4yr old at the time. I was panicking even though I’ve lived my whole life figuring out how to make money and take care of things. Came around to the fact that I’d figure this out too even if we hadn’t officially made our decision. Turns out that the first ultrasound the heartbeat was a little light in the 80s/min. Come back a week later, my mind had turned to “we’re having another kid” and at that one there was no movement-done. Further later it got “flushed” and I actually did in fact see what it was at that point. The second ultrasound and the aftermath made me pretty sad as a non serious Christian (Episcopalian). Feel free to call me some monster or whatever you want but I haven’t changed one bit on how I feel about a woman’s right to choose to have an abortion. Not one bit. How’s that for a story for you?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Whether you believe abortion is murder is a direct function of when you think that _human_ life begins. Before Roe vs. Wade, only the Roman Catholic church among large Christian communities within the US had theological beliefs of that being the point of conception. Moral majority movement however began to change that (along with the conservative takeover of the SBC theological schools in the 80s).

There are OT scriptures that indicate the moment that human life begins is at actual birth - and others that provide differing punishments for an injury to a woman who loses a pregnancy vs. killing a child. So there is some further interpretation necessary to get to conception at the point of birth (mostly pointing at scripture about God knowing someone while in the womb).

One of the basic underlying assumptions of Roe vs. Wade is the dividing line was set at independent viability of an infant. That is why the two trimester rule - we still have not really figured out how to take an infant before 24 weeks gestation and have a realistic chance of survival outside a mother's womb.

I despise and detest abortion, always have and always will. The old catholic in me still believes it is murder and as a catholic I was a complete failure in the faith I was raised in. My wife as a young RN was responsible for a time of being in the procedure room when the "fetus" was evacuated from the mothers womb. If any damn one of you was in that room and could witness up close and personal watching the fetus being evacuated, I bet none of you would not vomit and cry. My wife back then wanted desperately to have a baby, she was never able to become pregnant. The heartbreak of going to work and comforting women who willingly aborted their babies when you wanted what they were giving up. There is also the torment of a young nurse having to comfort these same women who were beside themselves with grief over what they had just done. They don't teach you how to do that in nursing school. Abortion should not only be rare it should be almost unheard of in our society. If there is to be money made from the selling of the parts of these aborted babies... then we as a nation are no better than the Nazis who dreamed up the final solution. I know many of you out there disagree with me vehemently. When my wife who has been there and seen it up close and personal tells me abortion is murder, I will agree with her all day long. She paid her dues and cried a lifetimes worth of tears in the process. I dare ANY of you to have this chat with my wife, you all try and explain to her what a great thing abortion is to our country.

How did you feel about those baby killers that came back from ‘Nam?

[old salt]

Whether you believe abortion is murder is a direct function of when you think that _human_ life begins. Before Roe vs. Wade, only the Roman Catholic church among large Christian communities within the US had theological beliefs of that being the point of conception. Moral majority movement however began to change that (along with the conservative takeover of the SBC theological schools in the 80s).

There are OT scriptures that indicate the moment that human life begins is at actual birth - and others that provide differing punishments for an injury to a woman who loses a pregnancy vs. killing a child. So there is some further interpretation necessary to get to conception at the point of birth (mostly pointing at scripture about God knowing someone while in the womb).

One of the basic underlying assumptions of Roe vs. Wade is the dividing line was set at independent viability of an infant. That is why the two trimester rule - we still have not really figured out how to take an infant before 24 weeks gestation and have a realistic chance of survival outside a mother's womb.

I despise and detest abortion, always have and always will. The old catholic in me still believes it is murder and as a catholic I was a complete failure in the faith I was raised in. My wife as a young RN was responsible for a time of being in the procedure room when the "fetus" was evacuated from the mothers womb. If any damn one of you was in that room and could witness up close and personal watching the fetus being evacuated, I bet none of you would not vomit and cry. My wife back then wanted desperately to have a baby, she was never able to become pregnant. The heartbreak of going to work and comforting women who willingly aborted their babies when you wanted what they were giving up. There is also the torment of a young nurse having to comfort these same women who were beside themselves with grief over what they had just done. They don't teach you how to do that in nursing school. Abortion should not only be rare it should be almost unheard of in our society. If there is to be money made from the selling of the parts of these aborted babies... then we as a nation are no better than the Nazis who dreamed up the final solution. I know many of you out there disagree with me vehemently. When my wife who has been there and seen it up close and personal tells me abortion is murder, I will agree with her all day long. She paid her dues and cried a lifetimes worth of tears in the process. I dare ANY of you to have this chat with my wife, you all try and explain to her what a great thing abortion is to our country.

How did you feel about those baby killers that came back from ‘Nam?

Tell us all about them, Daddy.

[jhu72]

Whether you believe abortion is murder is a direct function of when you think that _human_ life begins. Before Roe vs. Wade, only the Roman Catholic church among large Christian communities within the US had theological beliefs of that being the point of conception. Moral majority movement however began to change that (along with the conservative takeover of the SBC theological schools in the 80s).

There are OT scriptures that indicate the moment that human life begins is at actual birth - and others that provide differing punishments for an injury to a woman who loses a pregnancy vs. killing a child. So there is some further interpretation necessary to get to conception at the point of birth (mostly pointing at scripture about God knowing someone while in the womb).

One of the basic underlying assumptions of Roe vs. Wade is the dividing line was set at independent viability of an infant. That is why the two trimester rule - we still have not really figured out how to take an infant before 24 weeks gestation and have a realistic chance of survival outside a mother's womb.

I despise and detest abortion, always have and always will. The old catholic in me still believes it is murder and as a catholic I was a complete failure in the faith I was raised in. My wife as a young RN was responsible for a time of being in the procedure room when the "fetus" was evacuated from the mothers womb. If any damn one of you was in that room and could witness up close and personal watching the fetus being evacuated, I bet none of you would not vomit and cry. My wife back then wanted desperately to have a baby, she was never able to become pregnant. The heartbreak of going to work and comforting women who willingly aborted their babies when you wanted what they were giving up. There is also the torment of a young nurse having to comfort these same women who were beside themselves with grief over what they had just done. They don't teach you how to do that in nursing school. Abortion should not only be rare it should be almost unheard of in our society. If there is to be money made from the selling of the parts of these aborted babies... then we as a nation are no better than the Nazis who dreamed up the final solution. I know many of you out there disagree with me vehemently. When my wife who has been there and seen it up close and personal tells me abortion is murder, I will agree with her all day long. She paid her dues and cried a lifetimes worth of tears in the process. I dare ANY of you to have this chat with my wife, you all try and explain to her what a great thing abortion is to our country.

Total strawman.

Not one individual in this discussion has argued abortion is a "great thing to our country". It would be stipulated by everyone in this discussion that it is tragic and undesirable. Abortion does not equal selling of body parts. Lets not conflate the two. Abortions are going to happen - period. You will be no more successful in eradicating them than the nation was successful in eradicating moonshine. The real problem is how do we minimize them while causing the least harm to society and in minimizing them perhaps reaching a point where there are no more abortions for any reason other than necessary abortions. Criminalization has been a total failure.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Whether you believe abortion is murder is a direct function of when you think that _human_ life begins. Before Roe vs. Wade, only the Roman Catholic church among large Christian communities within the US had theological beliefs of that being the point of conception. Moral majority movement however began to change that (along with the conservative takeover of the SBC theological schools in the 80s).

There are OT scriptures that indicate the moment that human life begins is at actual birth - and others that provide differing punishments for an injury to a woman who loses a pregnancy vs. killing a child. So there is some further interpretation necessary to get to conception at the point of birth (mostly pointing at scripture about God knowing someone while in the womb).

One of the basic underlying assumptions of Roe vs. Wade is the dividing line was set at independent viability of an infant. That is why the two trimester rule - we still have not really figured out how to take an infant before 24 weeks gestation and have a realistic chance of survival outside a mother's womb.

I despise and detest abortion, always have and always will. The old catholic in me still believes it is murder and as a catholic I was a complete failure in the faith I was raised in. My wife as a young RN was responsible for a time of being in the procedure room when the "fetus" was evacuated from the mothers womb. If any damn one of you was in that room and could witness up close and personal watching the fetus being evacuated, I bet none of you would not vomit and cry. My wife back then wanted desperately to have a baby, she was never able to become pregnant. The heartbreak of going to work and comforting women who willingly aborted their babies when you wanted what they were giving up. There is also the torment of a young nurse having to comfort these same women who were beside themselves with grief over what they had just done. They don't teach you how to do that in nursing school. Abortion should not only be rare it should be almost unheard of in our society. If there is to be money made from the selling of the parts of these aborted babies... then we as a nation are no better than the Nazis who dreamed up the final solution. I know many of you out there disagree with me vehemently. When my wife who has been there and seen it up close and personal tells me abortion is murder, I will agree with her all day long. She paid her dues and cried a lifetimes worth of tears in the process. I dare ANY of you to have this chat with my wife, you all try and explain to her what a great thing abortion is to our country.

How did you feel about those baby killers that came back from ‘Nam?

Tell us all about them, Daddy.

As usual you missed the point.

[jhu72]

Ggait, don’t disagree, but if one believes that the “pure” or “literal” islamists have an absolute view than surely you’d believe that “literal”/“pure” Christians do as well. They want their religion to also be secular law in their country. Almost have to ignore that cohort.

Cradle, 2.5yrs ago we had a “mistake” pregnancy. I had just quit my job in a Jerry McGuire moment and was making a few bucks hiring myself out as a consultant but it was not a good time and we weren’t sure we wanted a 3rd w a 2&4yr old at the time. I was panicking even though I’ve lived my whole life figuring out how to make money and take care of things. Came around to the fact that I’d figure this out too even if we hadn’t officially made our decision. Turns out that the first ultrasound the heartbeat was a little light in the 80s/min. Come back a week later, my mind had turned to “we’re having another kid” and at that one there was no movement-done. Further later it got “flushed” and I actually did in fact see what it was at that point. The second ultrasound and the aftermath made me pretty sad as a non serious Christian (Episcopalian). Feel free to call me some monster or whatever you want but I haven’t changed one bit on how I feel about a woman’s right to choose to have an abortion. Not one bit. How’s that for a story for you?

We as well had a miscarriage when we were younger. 11 months later my first son was born. Hurts like hell, but like you it has not changed my opinion on the issue of right to choose. If anything it convinces me even more strongly that these are decisions which should only be made by the mother and the physician. The state has no place in these.

[cradleandshoot]

Whether you believe abortion is murder is a direct function of when you think that _human_ life begins. Before Roe vs. Wade, only the Roman Catholic church among large Christian communities within the US had theological beliefs of that being the point of conception. Moral majority movement however began to change that (along with the conservative takeover of the SBC theological schools in the 80s).

There are OT scriptures that indicate the moment that human life begins is at actual birth - and others that provide differing punishments for an injury to a woman who loses a pregnancy vs. killing a child. So there is some further interpretation necessary to get to conception at the point of birth (mostly pointing at scripture about God knowing someone while in the womb).

One of the basic underlying assumptions of Roe vs. Wade is the dividing line was set at independent viability of an infant. That is why the two trimester rule - we still have not really figured out how to take an infant before 24 weeks gestation and have a realistic chance of survival outside a mother's womb.

I despise and detest abortion, always have and always will. The old catholic in me still believes it is murder and as a catholic I was a complete failure in the faith I was raised in. My wife as a young RN was responsible for a time of being in the procedure room when the "fetus" was evacuated from the mothers womb. If any damn one of you was in that room and could witness up close and personal watching the fetus being evacuated, I bet none of you would not vomit and cry. My wife back then wanted desperately to have a baby, she was never able to become pregnant. The heartbreak of going to work and comforting women who willingly aborted their babies when you wanted what they were giving up. There is also the torment of a young nurse having to comfort these same women who were beside themselves with grief over what they had just done. They don't teach you how to do that in nursing school. Abortion should not only be rare it should be almost unheard of in our society. If there is to be money made from the selling of the parts of these aborted babies... then we as a nation are no better than the Nazis who dreamed up the final solution. I know many of you out there disagree with me vehemently. When my wife who has been there and seen it up close and personal tells me abortion is murder, I will agree with her all day long. She paid her dues and cried a lifetimes worth of tears in the process. I dare ANY of you to have this chat with my wife, you all try and explain to her what a great thing abortion is to our country.

Total strawman.

Not one individual in this discussion has argued abortion is a "great thing to our country". It would be stipulated by everyone in this discussion that it is tragic and undesirable. Abortion does not equal selling of body parts. Lets not conflate the two. Abortions are going to happen - period. You will be no more successful in eradicating them than the nation was successful in eradicating moonshine. The real problem is how do we minimize them while causing the least harm to society and in minimizing them perhaps reaching a point where there are no more abortions for any reason other than necessary abortions. Criminalization has been a total failure.

Then explain to me why the NYS legislature broke out in a standing ovation and were all smiles and laughter when they passed the late term abortion law? Straw man my ass. Your good friends at PP are very likely guilty of selling baby parts. All over dining with a nice red wine and a salad. How many " evacuations" have you been up close and personal for? Bet you could not handle it and would puke all over your penny loafers. If ignorance is bliss you are the happiest man on the planet... Go enjoy your chianti and have a nice ceasar salad to go with it.

https://www.christianpost.com/news/new- ... eason.html These folks sure look all broken up about what they had just done.

[cradleandshoot]

Whether you believe abortion is murder is a direct function of when you think that _human_ life begins. Before Roe vs. Wade, only the Roman Catholic church among large Christian communities within the US had theological beliefs of that being the point of conception. Moral majority movement however began to change that (along with the conservative takeover of the SBC theological schools in the 80s).

There are OT scriptures that indicate the moment that human life begins is at actual birth - and others that provide differing punishments for an injury to a woman who loses a pregnancy vs. killing a child. So there is some further interpretation necessary to get to conception at the point of birth (mostly pointing at scripture about God knowing someone while in the womb).

One of the basic underlying assumptions of Roe vs. Wade is the dividing line was set at independent viability of an infant. That is why the two trimester rule - we still have not really figured out how to take an infant before 24 weeks gestation and have a realistic chance of survival outside a mother's womb.

I despise and detest abortion, always have and always will. The old catholic in me still believes it is murder and as a catholic I was a complete failure in the faith I was raised in. My wife as a young RN was responsible for a time of being in the procedure room when the "fetus" was evacuated from the mothers womb. If any damn one of you was in that room and could witness up close and personal watching the fetus being evacuated, I bet none of you would not vomit and cry. My wife back then wanted desperately to have a baby, she was never able to become pregnant. The heartbreak of going to work and comforting women who willingly aborted their babies when you wanted what they were giving up. There is also the torment of a young nurse having to comfort these same women who were beside themselves with grief over what they had just done. They don't teach you how to do that in nursing school. Abortion should not only be rare it should be almost unheard of in our society. If there is to be money made from the selling of the parts of these aborted babies... then we as a nation are no better than the Nazis who dreamed up the final solution. I know many of you out there disagree with me vehemently. When my wife who has been there and seen it up close and personal tells me abortion is murder, I will agree with her all day long. She paid her dues and cried a lifetimes worth of tears in the process. I dare ANY of you to have this chat with my wife, you all try and explain to her what a great thing abortion is to our country.

How did you feel about those baby killers that came back from ‘Nam?

The most ignorant comment for 2020 so far goes to... TLD. Stand up and take a bow. Are you going to Disneyworld?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Whether you believe abortion is murder is a direct function of when you think that _human_ life begins. Before Roe vs. Wade, only the Roman Catholic church among large Christian communities within the US had theological beliefs of that being the point of conception. Moral majority movement however began to change that (along with the conservative takeover of the SBC theological schools in the 80s).

There are OT scriptures that indicate the moment that human life begins is at actual birth - and others that provide differing punishments for an injury to a woman who loses a pregnancy vs. killing a child. So there is some further interpretation necessary to get to conception at the point of birth (mostly pointing at scripture about God knowing someone while in the womb).

One of the basic underlying assumptions of Roe vs. Wade is the dividing line was set at independent viability of an infant. That is why the two trimester rule - we still have not really figured out how to take an infant before 24 weeks gestation and have a realistic chance of survival outside a mother's womb.

I despise and detest abortion, always have and always will. The old catholic in me still believes it is murder and as a catholic I was a complete failure in the faith I was raised in. My wife as a young RN was responsible for a time of being in the procedure room when the "fetus" was evacuated from the mothers womb. If any damn one of you was in that room and could witness up close and personal watching the fetus being evacuated, I bet none of you would not vomit and cry. My wife back then wanted desperately to have a baby, she was never able to become pregnant. The heartbreak of going to work and comforting women who willingly aborted their babies when you wanted what they were giving up. There is also the torment of a young nurse having to comfort these same women who were beside themselves with grief over what they had just done. They don't teach you how to do that in nursing school. Abortion should not only be rare it should be almost unheard of in our society. If there is to be money made from the selling of the parts of these aborted babies... then we as a nation are no better than the Nazis who dreamed up the final solution. I know many of you out there disagree with me vehemently. When my wife who has been there and seen it up close and personal tells me abortion is murder, I will agree with her all day long. She paid her dues and cried a lifetimes worth of tears in the process. I dare ANY of you to have this chat with my wife, you all try and explain to her what a great thing abortion is to our country.

How did you feel about those baby killers that came back from ‘Nam?

The most ignorant comment for 2020 so far goes to... TLD. Stand up and take a bow. Are you going to Disneyworld?

It went over your head.

[cradleandshoot]

Ggait, don’t disagree, but if one believes that the “pure” or “literal” islamists have an absolute view than surely you’d believe that “literal”/“pure” Christians do as well. They want their religion to also be secular law in their country. Almost have to ignore that cohort.

Cradle, 2.5yrs ago we had a “mistake” pregnancy. I had just quit my job in a Jerry McGuire moment and was making a few bucks hiring myself out as a consultant but it was not a good time and we weren’t sure we wanted a 3rd w a 2&4yr old at the time. I was panicking even though I’ve lived my whole life figuring out how to make money and take care of things. Came around to the fact that I’d figure this out too even if we hadn’t officially made our decision. Turns out that the first ultrasound the heartbeat was a little light in the 80s/min. Come back a week later, my mind had turned to “we’re having another kid” and at that one there was no movement-done. Further later it got “flushed” and I actually did in fact see what it was at that point. The second ultrasound and the aftermath made me pretty sad as a non serious Christian (Episcopalian). Feel free to call me some monster or whatever you want but I haven’t changed one bit on how I feel about a woman’s right to choose to have an abortion. Not one bit. How’s that for a story for you?

I am not calling you a monster. You endured the tragedy of a stillborn baby. That is not what I am talking about. I am talking about when you "evacuate" a perfectly healthy normal baby. My wife endured this for several months until she refused to set foot in that type of procedure room ever again. The first conversation we ever had about this caused her to sob uncontrollably of the trauma she witnessed. This was in the early 80s when she was a young nurse trying to do her job. Even after all these years it still bothers her to no end. She has way too many bad memories of holding hands of guilt racked mothers beyond grief for what they had just done. Nobody ever tells us that side of the story.

[cradleandshoot]

Whether you believe abortion is murder is a direct function of when you think that _human_ life begins. Before Roe vs. Wade, only the Roman Catholic church among large Christian communities within the US had theological beliefs of that being the point of conception. Moral majority movement however began to change that (along with the conservative takeover of the SBC theological schools in the 80s).

There are OT scriptures that indicate the moment that human life begins is at actual birth - and others that provide differing punishments for an injury to a woman who loses a pregnancy vs. killing a child. So there is some further interpretation necessary to get to conception at the point of birth (mostly pointing at scripture about God knowing someone while in the womb).

One of the basic underlying assumptions of Roe vs. Wade is the dividing line was set at independent viability of an infant. That is why the two trimester rule - we still have not really figured out how to take an infant before 24 weeks gestation and have a realistic chance of survival outside a mother's womb.

I despise and detest abortion, always have and always will. The old catholic in me still believes it is murder and as a catholic I was a complete failure in the faith I was raised in. My wife as a young RN was responsible for a time of being in the procedure room when the "fetus" was evacuated from the mothers womb. If any damn one of you was in that room and could witness up close and personal watching the fetus being evacuated, I bet none of you would not vomit and cry. My wife back then wanted desperately to have a baby, she was never able to become pregnant. The heartbreak of going to work and comforting women who willingly aborted their babies when you wanted what they were giving up. There is also the torment of a young nurse having to comfort these same women who were beside themselves with grief over what they had just done. They don't teach you how to do that in nursing school. Abortion should not only be rare it should be almost unheard of in our society. If there is to be money made from the selling of the parts of these aborted babies... then we as a nation are no better than the Nazis who dreamed up the final solution. I know many of you out there disagree with me vehemently. When my wife who has been there and seen it up close and personal tells me abortion is murder, I will agree with her all day long. She paid her dues and cried a lifetimes worth of tears in the process. I dare ANY of you to have this chat with my wife, you all try and explain to her what a great thing abortion is to our country.

How did you feel about those baby killers that came back from ‘Nam?

The most ignorant comment for 2020 so far goes to... TLD. Stand up and take a bow. Are you going to Disneyworld?

It went over your head.

I guess so, I was taking your words at face value. If you had some context to what you were trying to say, maybe you should not make it a mystery. That is your bad not mine. I don't dance around stupid metaphors people are trying to use... say what you mean and mean what you say.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Whether you believe abortion is murder is a direct function of when you think that _human_ life begins. Before Roe vs. Wade, only the Roman Catholic church among large Christian communities within the US had theological beliefs of that being the point of conception. Moral majority movement however began to change that (along with the conservative takeover of the SBC theological schools in the 80s).

There are OT scriptures that indicate the moment that human life begins is at actual birth - and others that provide differing punishments for an injury to a woman who loses a pregnancy vs. killing a child. So there is some further interpretation necessary to get to conception at the point of birth (mostly pointing at scripture about God knowing someone while in the womb).

One of the basic underlying assumptions of Roe vs. Wade is the dividing line was set at independent viability of an infant. That is why the two trimester rule - we still have not really figured out how to take an infant before 24 weeks gestation and have a realistic chance of survival outside a mother's womb.

I despise and detest abortion, always have and always will. The old catholic in me still believes it is murder and as a catholic I was a complete failure in the faith I was raised in. My wife as a young RN was responsible for a time of being in the procedure room when the "fetus" was evacuated from the mothers womb. If any damn one of you was in that room and could witness up close and personal watching the fetus being evacuated, I bet none of you would not vomit and cry. My wife back then wanted desperately to have a baby, she was never able to become pregnant. The heartbreak of going to work and comforting women who willingly aborted their babies when you wanted what they were giving up. There is also the torment of a young nurse having to comfort these same women who were beside themselves with grief over what they had just done. They don't teach you how to do that in nursing school. Abortion should not only be rare it should be almost unheard of in our society. If there is to be money made from the selling of the parts of these aborted babies... then we as a nation are no better than the Nazis who dreamed up the final solution. I know many of you out there disagree with me vehemently. When my wife who has been there and seen it up close and personal tells me abortion is murder, I will agree with her all day long. She paid her dues and cried a lifetimes worth of tears in the process. I dare ANY of you to have this chat with my wife, you all try and explain to her what a great thing abortion is to our country.

How did you feel about those baby killers that came back from ‘Nam?

The most ignorant comment for 2020 so far goes to... TLD. Stand up and take a bow. Are you going to Disneyworld?

It went over your head.

I guess so, I was taking your words at face value. If you had some context to what you were trying to say, maybe you should not make it a mystery. That is your bad not mine. I don't dance around stupid metaphors people are trying to use... say what you mean and mean what you say.

Just painting folks in broad strokes like you do.

[Brooklyn]

you just gotta love certain Jewish liberals ...






... they always fought for the little guy against the powers that be and both can truthfully say they came from God's Country

[youthathletics]

And this is a good thing...why? https://www.instagram.com/p/B87j_AKBhaO ... gmtwu6o6xn