Johns Hopkins 2020

[51percentcorn]

While I very rarely agree with Sag A - there could be some parallels to RGIII in the following sense. Griffin's initial injury with the Redskins came on a scramble against the Ravens in Week 14 and If I remember correctly the original diagnosis was a sprained MCL. He did not play against the Browns the following week but played against the Eagles and Cowboys and the Redskins won the Division. It was in the divisional round 4 weeks later that he blew out everything in the knee against the Seahawks. Then came "All In For Week One" and the rest will go down in flames in infamy. Hindsight - having those great peepers - would have said the better course of action was to shut him down and playing 3 professional tackle football games 2 weeks removed from a graded sprained knee was perhaps not the great Dr. James Andrews' best decision - albeit he was likely under tremendous pressure from one of the worst owners in professional sports to get him back out there.

SO - obviously the worst outcome in this situation would be to play young Joseph and have him suffer very serious damage to the knee that puts 2021 in some jeopardy depending upon when he re-injured the joint. I would rather he be shut down for the year and have potentially 3 years with Grimes/McDermott/Bauer etc. than risk serious injury. If he's completely healthy - he plays. If there's any increased risk at all - he sits. News Flash - With Penn State, UVA, Yale etc. Johns Hopkins is not winning the title this year - healthy Epstein or no.

Greeley - however - did not just collapse against Navy. I was there. He was near midfield and a Navy player tried to lob a clearing pass over his head and he jumped and actually stabbed the pass with only one hand on the stick and came down wrong on the same knee. The other thing about Greeley was - since his original injury was at the Lake Placid summer deal - probably about 7 to 8 months past his injury when they played Navy since it was late in the season (Hopkins had just lost to Maryland the week before). He also had a real knee brace on - not an amped compression sleeve. While you can debate whether 7-8 months is enough time for an ACL I guess - one figures or hopes ALOT of medical thought went into that one.

[wgdsr]

I'm one of the tougher posters but foley and rapine are no longer part of the program and I've moved on. I saw a few unc previews, but if we're going to win tomorrow what will it take to get us back on track+what weaknesses does unc have?

once they are up 15 and everyone has their points, the backups struggle in the last 2+ minutes.

[51percentcorn]

I'm one of the tougher posters but foley and rapine are no longer part of the program and I've moved on. I saw a few unc previews, but if we're going to win tomorrow what will it take to get us back on track+what weaknesses does unc have?

Because of the competition UNC has faced - it is hard to really project alot of things. UNC's opponents to date sport a record of 1-7 with the lone win being Mercer's triumph over DII Florida Tech. Otherwise, the two opponents that have played all DI teams are 0-6 and have been outscored 117-51 - though it should be noted Colgate and Lafayette have basically played a murderer's row of teams - Penn State, Syracuse, UNC, etc. Still getting outscored by a combined 66 goals over 6 games is an indication of something.

The addition of Chris Gray to this team is a significant development and along with Solomon they make everyone else better. UNC is averaging 39 ground balls per game. Without having seen them play - I would offer the following - against sub-par competition they are essentially 54% on face-offs - one would hope Prouty and Narewski offer Tucci's stiffest competition to date. If I were Coach Breschi - I might be concerned about the 15 turnovers a game but that might be just a product of getting to play alot of inexperienced guys - same with their 82% clearing rate whihc you might expect to be higher.

Therefore, to have a shot at getting back on track they must do all the things they didn't or couldn't do against Loyola. They need to start (and end for that matter) with more possessions. While sometimes face-offs can be a very misleading or less than meaningful stat - with Hopkins it isn't - they need to win FOs to keep momentum rolling or to blunt the Heels. They can't have a high number of turnovers and failed clears against an always athletic team that has given them fits in the past on those issues. Darby has to show up and at least be competent - around 50 or even better. Hopkins must get some contributions from Williams if Epstein is sidelined like I think he will be. I would stick with an attack of Smith, Williams and rotate Murphy and Degnon. Baskin is having trouble with poles - his strength is inverting and getting a pick to set free or shooting on an SSDM. If Gray and company get as many turns as the Hounds did - Hopkins will lose.

[Catbird]

Need to be efficient on offense and finish shots; I think we will be able to win some faceoffs and get some opportunities. If they don't do that it will be a long day. I think the defense has gotten better but I would be surprised if we hold the Heels under 10.

UNC has had too many good days at Homewood the last decade so I am not terribly optimistic about this one.

[HopFan16]

Griffin's initial injury with the Redskins came on a scramble against the Ravens in Week 14 and If I remember correctly the original diagnosis was a sprained MCL.

Was an LCL. I'm not a doctor so I don't know which is more severe and what the recovery time is for each (though it always depends on the player anyway), but just pointing out it wasn't the same injury.

Of course—if there's a real risk of re-injury, the kid should not play. All I'm saying is we don't know for sure if that was the case. Petro is not stupid, he does not want to be the one responsible for endangering possibly the best player he's had in a over a decade.

UNC has had too many good days at Homewood the last decade so I am not terribly optimistic about this one.

It is a fact that UNC has had our number at Homewood recently (and we've had theirs in Carolina), but I think it's worth questioning why that is—or if there even is an actual reason for it beyond sheer coincidence. Is there something about Homewood Field that gives the Tar Heels superpowers? Generally the Jays play better at home than away so it's not as if they just lose the benefit of homefield advantage when Breschi's boys come to town. I think it is more likely just that these two teams have been relatively evenly matched for the last several years, and it's just so happened that the away team has won. Hopefully we can reverse the pattern on Saturday.

Would not mind seeing Angelus take a run or two at that third attack spot if the other guys aren't getting it done.

Whoever covers Gray will tell us a lot about how Petro sees this defense. I know that McManus drew the tougher assignment last week, but my hunch—based on no information other than a gut feeling—is that he asks the senior Colwell to do the job. Reinson and Jaronski will have their work cut out for them against a very experienced midfield of Cook, Anderson, and Perry.

[Sagittarius A*]

Greeley - however - did not just collapse against Navy. I was there. He was near midfield and a Navy player tried to lob a clearing pass over his head and he jumped and actually stabbed the pass with only one hand on the stick and came down wrong on the same knee. The other thing about Greeley was - since his original injury was at the Lake Placid summer deal - probably about 7 to 8 months past his injury when they played Navy since it was late in the season (Hopkins had just lost to Maryland the week before). He also had a real knee brace on - not an amped compression sleeve. While you can debate whether 7-8 months is enough time for an ACL I guess - one figures or hopes ALOT of medical thought went into that one.

You recall this a lot better than I do. I just remember that he went down even though nobody had touched him. But still it was a non-contact re-injury, a bit different from RGIII since Greeley was jumping up and I think RGIII was just running back after the snap. Having said that I saw Greeley take some pretty nasty hits before his injury so he was a pretty tough guy. Knee injuries just make me really nervous and I'd honestly rather see Epstein sit then take unnecessary risks with this.

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

Question: did “they” take him out? Or did he take himself out?

[viper]

Griffin's initial injury with the Redskins came on a scramble against the Ravens in Week 14 and If I remember correctly the original diagnosis was a sprained MCL.

Was an LCL. I'm not a doctor so I don't know which is more severe and what the recovery time is for each (though it always depends on the player anyway), but just pointing out it wasn't the same injury.

Of course—if there's a real risk of re-injury, the kid should not play. All I'm saying is we don't know for sure if that was the case. Petro is not stupid, he does not want to be the one responsible for endangering possibly the best player he's had in a over a decade.

UNC has had too many good days at Homewood the last decade so I am not terribly optimistic about this one.

It is a fact that UNC has had our number at Homewood recently (and we've had theirs in Carolina), but I think it's worth questioning why that is—or if there even is an actual reason for it beyond sheer coincidence. Is there something about Homewood Field that gives the Tar Heels superpowers? Generally the Jays play better at home than away so it's not as if they just lose the benefit of homefield advantage when Breschi's boys come to town. I think it is more likely just that these two teams have been relatively evenly matched for the last several years, and it's just so happened that the away team has won. Hopefully we can reverse the pattern on Saturday.

Would not mind seeing Angelus take a run or two at that third attack spot if the other guys aren't getting it done.

Whoever covers Gray will tell us a lot about how Petro sees this defense. I know that McManus drew the tougher assignment last week, but my hunch—based on no information other than a gut feeling—is that he asks the senior Colwell to do the job. Reinson and Jaronski will have their work cut out for them against a very experienced midfield of Cook, Anderson, and Perry.

Not sure if this matters, but for many of the NC players they get to go home to play. Jake Kelly, Parker Byrd, Conner Maher, Jack Pezzulla, Cole Brown, Alex Breschi all from the Baltimore area. Throw in Alex Trippi, PJ Zinsner and Clay Lanham as other kids who grew up within an hour of JHU. Not to mention that much of the Breschi family is Baltimore based as well. I am sure they bring out a large contingent of family a friends when they are at Homewood.

[primitiveskills]

SO - obviously the worst outcome in this situation would be to play young Joseph and have him suffer very serious damage to the knee that puts 2021 in some jeopardy depending upon when he re-injured the joint. I would rather he be shut down for the year and have potentially 3 years with Grimes/McDermott/Bauer etc. than risk serious injury. If he's completely healthy - he plays. If there's any increased risk at all - he sits. News Flash - With Penn State, UVA, Yale etc. Johns Hopkins is not winning the title this year - healthy Epstein or no.

Correct

[jhu72]

SO - obviously the worst outcome in this situation would be to play young Joseph and have him suffer very serious damage to the knee that puts 2021 in some jeopardy depending upon when he re-injured the joint. I would rather he be shut down for the year and have potentially 3 years with Grimes/McDermott/Bauer etc. than risk serious injury. If he's completely healthy - he plays. If there's any increased risk at all - he sits. News Flash - With Penn State, UVA, Yale etc. Johns Hopkins is not winning the title this year - healthy Epstein or no.

Correct

Exactly.

[jhu72]

Greeley - however - did not just collapse against Navy. I was there. He was near midfield and a Navy player tried to lob a clearing pass over his head and he jumped and actually stabbed the pass with only one hand on the stick and came down wrong on the same knee. The other thing about Greeley was - since his original injury was at the Lake Placid summer deal - probably about 7 to 8 months past his injury when they played Navy since it was late in the season (Hopkins had just lost to Maryland the week before). He also had a real knee brace on - not an amped compression sleeve. While you can debate whether 7-8 months is enough time for an ACL I guess - one figures or hopes ALOT of medical thought went into that one.

You recall this a lot better than I do. I just remember that he went down even though nobody had touched him. But still it was a non-contact re-injury, a bit different from RGIII since Greeley was jumping up and I think RGIII was just running back after the snap. Having said that I saw Greeley take some pretty nasty hits before his injury so he was a pretty tough guy. Knee injuries just make me really nervous and I'd honestly rather see Epstein sit then take unnecessary risks with this.

I was never a big Greeley fan. From day 1 I never saw what all the hype was about. I also believe he was highly prone to knee injuries. Some kids are, whether they are athletic in other ways or not. Sure he was a nice kid, but he was a program mistake in my opinion.

[HopFan16]

I was never a big Greeley fan. From day 1 I never saw what all the hype was about. I also believe he was highly prone to knee injuries. Some kids are, whether they are athletic in other ways or not. Sure he was a nice kid, but he was a program mistake in my opinion.

"Highly prone to knee injuries"—what does this even mean? Have you examined his knee yourself?

If that even is true, how can you then turn around and say you're "not a fan" and that he was a "program mistake" if there was some underlying medical issue that no one could have predicted when he committed? I won't need to remind you that he was one of the top ranked recruits coming out of high school and picked Hopkins over pretty much his choice of top-tier D1 programs. Syracuse, UNC, Duke, etc. would have been thrilled at the chance to make that same "program mistake."

Not all top recruits pan out for a variety of reasons—obviously injuries had a little something to do with this instance. Even with the injuries he still finished with 65 career points as a midfielder, over 16 per season while being in and out of the lineup and probably never at close to 100%. Disappointing given the giant expectations but not exactly a mistake.

The language some of you use to talk about unpaid student athletes who gave their all for your alma mater and weathered several major injuries to put up decent point totals...grosses me out.

[51percentcorn]

I have to agree. A mistake? That's pretty harsh - this isn't some pro football team that paid a gazillion dollars or spent a high draft choice on a bust. It wan't like Hopkins failed to get someone because they had Greeley. You might think he never lived up to the hype - fine - I would also submit he never personally contributed to or created the hype. He was a good player that became besieged by injuries. Not sure how he became known to be "prone" to knee injuries before the first serious one in Lake Placid but maybe I missed something.

[Antonio114]

I was never a big Greeley fan. From day 1 I never saw what all the hype was about. I also believe he was highly prone to knee injuries. Some kids are, whether they are athletic in other ways or not. Sure he was a nice kid, but he was a program mistake in my opinion.

"Highly prone to knee injuries"—what does this even mean? Have you examined his knee yourself?

If that even is true, how can you then turn around and say you're "not a fan" and that he was a "program mistake" if there was some underlying medical issue that no one could have predicted when he committed? I won't need to remind you that he was one of the top ranked recruits coming out of high school and picked Hopkins over pretty much his choice of top-tier D1 programs. Syracuse, UNC, Duke, etc. would have been thrilled at the chance to make that same "program mistake."

Not all top recruits pan out for a variety of reasons—obviously injuries had a little something to do with this instance. Even with the injuries he still finished with 65 career points as a midfielder, over 16 per season while being in and out of the lineup and probably never at close to 100%. Disappointing given the giant expectations but not exactly a mistake.

The language some of you use to talk about unpaid student athletes who gave their all for your alma mater and weathered several major injuries to put up decent point totals...grosses me out.

Greeley was an absolute monster in high school. I watched the Lafayette team with Greeley, Miles, and Lyle Thompson play my high school in CNY. The three of them were basically the only quality players that team had and they completely dominated in every facet of the game. The three of them alone lead that team to the state championship. At the time Greeley was every bit as impressive as the Thompson's, whose college careers obviously panned out more. Elite athlete with a point guard like command of the field. His #1 IL recruit ranking was well deserved and I guarantee health was a major factor in him not currently being a prominent name in Hopkins lore.

[primitiveskills]

Greeley is an interesting case becuase his recruiting ranking was largely based on his time at Lafayette before Lyle and Miles Thompson showed up. By the time he was a senior it was the full-on Thompson show and he was lucky to see the ball more than a few times a game. No doubt this and the subsequent injuries held back his development.

[DocBarrister]

I always rooted for John Greeley. No doubt his multiple serious injuries curtailed his development. If I recall, he was injured even before the first game of his Hopkins career.

In addition, I thought his game and style relied a little too much on finesse and not enough on his athleticism. Kyle Wharton memorably spoofed Greeley’s twirling dodging style on video. Greeley once said in an interview that he wasn’t a North-South dodger like John Ranagan. My response to that was, “Why the heck not?!?” I don’t think even Greeley appreciated his own athleticism. He should have simplified his game. He was particularly good on wing dodges. I think if Greeley had simply followed Danowski’s famous coaching mantra ... beat your man and score a goal ... Greeley would have been more productive. He didn’t need those fancy twirling dodges ... just run by your shortstick (which he mostly drew) and shoot if you can get clear or pass if someone slides to you. Recall a North Carolina game where he did just that and he had a productive game.

Greeley was a good player and I enjoyed watching him play at Hopkins.

DocBarrister

[Laxrat]

Anecdotally, I’ve seen players injure their knees after blowing up the weight room in the offseason. I saw some footage on insta of Hopkins team meeting, Epstein looked like he got even more jacked up. I wonder if that is connected at all to the injury.

[ohmilax34]

I was never a big Greeley fan. From day 1 I never saw what all the hype was about. I also believe he was highly prone to knee injuries. Some kids are, whether they are athletic in other ways or not. Sure he was a nice kid, but he was a program mistake in my opinion.

"Highly prone to knee injuries"—what does this even mean? Have you examined his knee yourself?

If that even is true, how can you then turn around and say you're "not a fan" and that he was a "program mistake" if there was some underlying medical issue that no one could have predicted when he committed? I won't need to remind you that he was one of the top ranked recruits coming out of high school and picked Hopkins over pretty much his choice of top-tier D1 programs. Syracuse, UNC, Duke, etc. would have been thrilled at the chance to make that same "program mistake."

Not all top recruits pan out for a variety of reasons—obviously injuries had a little something to do with this instance. Even with the injuries he still finished with 65 career points as a midfielder, over 16 per season while being in and out of the lineup and probably never at close to 100%. Disappointing given the giant expectations but not exactly a mistake.

The language some of you use to talk about unpaid student athletes who gave their all for your alma mater and weathered several major injuries to put up decent point totals...grosses me out.

Greeley was an absolute monster in high school. I watched the Lafayette team with Greeley, Miles, and Lyle Thompson play my high school in CNY. The three of them were basically the only quality players that team had and they completely dominated in every facet of the game. The three of them alone lead that team to the state championship. At the time Greeley was every bit as impressive as the Thompson's, whose college careers obviously panned out more. Elite athlete with a point guard like command of the field. His #1 IL recruit ranking was well deserved and I guarantee health was a major factor in him not currently being a prominent name in Hopkins lore.

Didn't Zac Guy play for Lafayette for a bit around that time? I think he transferred to Tully eventually.

[jhu08]

If I may, respectfully, defend the site, we have broken a couple dozen stories about college hires/transfers/pro-lacrosse news (mostly Chris' doing) and a couple long-form articles that, I guess, would be considered real journalism where we either used FOIA records or court filings to unearth information that was previously unknown (links below!). No one is going to mistake us for the Washington Post, but we're proud of the stuff we have put up in the past. We certainly aren't doing it for the money, we get a nominal monthly stipend, but we love the college game, have a lot of fun on our podcast, and enjoy being in the mix.

Anyway, I saw that this little brouhaha started up a couple days ago and just wanted to clear the air. I used to run the main Twitter account solo but after Chris stepped down we decided to open it up to allow more voices to use the account. I didn't put the Tweet in question up, but I can assure you there was no malice involved. We routinely make similar jokes about Syracuse.com posters after an Orange loss. Full disclosure, I did make a similar joke on my personal account, but again, it was all in good fun.

I haven't posted since FanLax started because I've been a bit busy with my real job and helping to co-manage CC. But I loved the old LaxPower site and always enjoyed the back-and-forth banter there and the camaraderie among the posters. I know things can sometimes get heated on message boards, so I wanted put a (digital) face to a name and hopefully clear the air, as I've enjoyed the hundreds of hours I've spent reading/writing with you all in the past. I've always enjoyed your posts in particular and found you to be one of the most passionate Hop fans on the board. I will try to post here more often now that I have an account. Feel free to instant message me here if you ever wanna reach out. Shout out to the guys who started/run FanLax, you guys are doing a great job.

If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. If you aren't real journalists (you aren't), don't act like you are.

[Antonio114]

I was never a big Greeley fan. From day 1 I never saw what all the hype was about. I also believe he was highly prone to knee injuries. Some kids are, whether they are athletic in other ways or not. Sure he was a nice kid, but he was a program mistake in my opinion.

"Highly prone to knee injuries"—what does this even mean? Have you examined his knee yourself?

If that even is true, how can you then turn around and say you're "not a fan" and that he was a "program mistake" if there was some underlying medical issue that no one could have predicted when he committed? I won't need to remind you that he was one of the top ranked recruits coming out of high school and picked Hopkins over pretty much his choice of top-tier D1 programs. Syracuse, UNC, Duke, etc. would have been thrilled at the chance to make that same "program mistake."

Not all top recruits pan out for a variety of reasons—obviously injuries had a little something to do with this instance. Even with the injuries he still finished with 65 career points as a midfielder, over 16 per season while being in and out of the lineup and probably never at close to 100%. Disappointing given the giant expectations but not exactly a mistake.

The language some of you use to talk about unpaid student athletes who gave their all for your alma mater and weathered several major injuries to put up decent point totals...grosses me out.

Greeley was an absolute monster in high school. I watched the Lafayette team with Greeley, Miles, and Lyle Thompson play my high school in CNY. The three of them were basically the only quality players that team had and they completely dominated in every facet of the game. The three of them alone lead that team to the state championship. At the time Greeley was every bit as impressive as the Thompson's, whose college careers obviously panned out more. Elite athlete with a point guard like command of the field. His #1 IL recruit ranking was well deserved and I guarantee health was a major factor in him not currently being a prominent name in Hopkins lore.

Didn't Zac Guy play for Lafayette for a bit around that time? I think he transferred to Tully eventually.

Did not know he ever played for Lafayette. He was certainly a monster in high school as well.