Helmets/Head Gear?

[Sllaxdad]

A parent of two players; one @ D-1 and the other soon to be. Both have multiple teammates out due to concussions. Either suffered by stick to head blows or head to ground/body collision injuries. Any progress on mandating head gear across the board?

[seacoaster]

A parent of two players; one @ D-1 and the other soon to be. Both have multiple teammates out due to concussions. Either suffered by stick to head blows or head to ground/body collision injuries. Any progress on mandating head gear across the board?

Hope not. The gripe is with officiating and coaching. No helmets.

[Badlands]

The refs are making excellent progress on bringing us helmets by not calling Dangerous Propelling unless a shot actually hits a defender. Not long ago, they called the near misses.

[Dr. Tact]

The refs are making excellent progress on bringing us helmets by not calling Dangerous Propelling unless a shot actually hits a defender. Not long ago, they called the near misses.

I find more dangerous follow throughs being cause for injury, but your point is well stated.

[Bart]

A parent of two players; one @ D-1 and the other soon to be. Both have multiple teammates out due to concussions. Either suffered by stick to head blows or head to ground/body collision injuries. Any progress on mandating head gear across the board?

Hope not. The gripe is with officiating and coaching. No helmets.

I don't blame the coaches, you go as far as the rules allow you to go or perhaps more accurately how the rules are being enforced. I will agree with you 100% however, alot of this goes away with the enforcement of the rules on the books.

[seacoaster]

Bart, understand your point of view. I see it this way: coaches have to honor the game, or not. To the extent they allow, or push, their players to push the envelope, they are participating in conduct that will change the game, lead to helmets and pads, and simply give us a single game of lacrosse embodied in the men's game and rules. In high school, we teach the kids to remain in control; we teach the kids to check the crosse correctly; we teach the kids to use their bodies by not the stick as the guard-rail. The brotherhood/sisterhood of coaches and officials will essentially decide if the game remains the elegant, fast and skilled game it is. JMO.

[Bart]

Bart, understand your point of view. I see it this way: coaches have to honor the game, or not. To the extent they allow, or push, their players to push the envelope, they are participating in conduct that will change the game, lead to helmets and pads, and simply give us a single game of lacrosse embodied in the men's game and rules. In high school, we teach the kids to remain in control; we teach the kids to check the crosse correctly; we teach the kids to use their bodies by not the stick as the guard-rail. The brotherhood/sisterhood of coaches and officials will essentially decide if the game remains the elegant, fast and skilled game it is. JMO.

Not disagreeing with your thoughts on proper techniques you teach in high school, good on ya and how it should be played imho. I personally think the game will continue to change if the current rules are followed in the way they are. The means to address it are in place.

I do have an honest question for you........to what game are the coaches to honor? The game 2 or 3 years ago without free movement? The game prior to the shot clock? The game before the advent of plastic heads? The game before zone defenses and the backer? The game of the 80's or 70's? Which game is it that we should follow and honor?

You could make the same argument across every decade as hyper competitive coaches have pushed the envelope over and over. Taken together these incremental changes have resulted the game currently played at the college level right now. And yes, I agree, the current coaches/referees will decide how the game progresses.

[seacoaster]

Bart, understand your point of view. I see it this way: coaches have to honor the game, or not. To the extent they allow, or push, their players to push the envelope, they are participating in conduct that will change the game, lead to helmets and pads, and simply give us a single game of lacrosse embodied in the men's game and rules. In high school, we teach the kids to remain in control; we teach the kids to check the crosse correctly; we teach the kids to use their bodies by not the stick as the guard-rail. The brotherhood/sisterhood of coaches and officials will essentially decide if the game remains the elegant, fast and skilled game it is. JMO.

I do have an honest question for you........to what game are the coaches to honor? The game 2 or 3 years ago without free movement? The game prior to the shot clock? The game before the advent of plastic heads? The game before zone defenses and the backer? The game of the 80's or 70's? Which game is it that we should follow and honor?

You could make the same argument across every decade as hyper competitive coaches have pushed the envelope over and over. Taken together these incremental changes have resulted the game currently played at the college level right now. And yes, I agree, the current coaches/referees will decide how the game progresses.

Great question. And -- not being facetious -- I guess my answer is a game that continues to not require armor. I understand the relentless change experienced in the game over the past decade or more, and stick/crosse/pocket "innovation" is the one that concerns me the most for two reasons: (1) harder to dislodge changes the game, and the men have shown that "harder to dislodge" slows the game; and (2) the pockets now have whip, and the velocity of the shooting is a big concern if the shooting space/dangerous shot/danger propel rules are not scrupulously honored.

Again, your question is really well-taken. And my answer is, essentially, whatever game is necessary to preserve the speedy, elegant and armor-free game we see now.

[Bart]

Bart, understand your point of view. I see it this way: coaches have to honor the game, or not. To the extent they allow, or push, their players to push the envelope, they are participating in conduct that will change the game, lead to helmets and pads, and simply give us a single game of lacrosse embodied in the men's game and rules. In high school, we teach the kids to remain in control; we teach the kids to check the crosse correctly; we teach the kids to use their bodies by not the stick as the guard-rail. The brotherhood/sisterhood of coaches and officials will essentially decide if the game remains the elegant, fast and skilled game it is. JMO.

I do have an honest question for you........to what game are the coaches to honor? The game 2 or 3 years ago without free movement? The game prior to the shot clock? The game before the advent of plastic heads? The game before zone defenses and the backer? The game of the 80's or 70's? Which game is it that we should follow and honor?

You could make the same argument across every decade as hyper competitive coaches have pushed the envelope over and over. Taken together these incremental changes have resulted the game currently played at the college level right now. And yes, I agree, the current coaches/referees will decide how the game progresses.

Great question. And -- not being facetious -- I guess my answer is a game that continues to not require armor. I understand the relentless change experienced in the game over the past decade or more, and stick/crosse/pocket "innovation" is the one that concerns me the most for two reasons: (1) harder to dislodge changes the game, and the men have shown that "harder to dislodge" slows the game; and (2) the pockets now have whip, and the velocity of the shooting is a big concern if the shooting space/dangerous shot/danger propel rules are not scrupulously honored.

Again, your question is really well-taken. And my answer is, essentially, whatever game is necessary to preserve the speedy, elegant and armor-free game we see now.

Thanks for the reply. I too hope the game remains armor-free.

[old man]

Y'all can hope all you want, but the game is headed (no pun intended) towards helmets + pads.

In order for the game to keep growing & maintain the interest of the southern, midwestern, & western populations - the game will have to continue to morph into something similar to the men's game, if nothing else than for the simplicity of the rules understanding.

we have MORE 1st generation girls lacrosse players playing now than ever before. one site posted a stat that there are more new girls lacrosse player outside of the NE cradle playing the game than inside of it for the 1st time in the game's history.

New officials, coaches, & parents (paying the bills for equipment, teams, travel, etc) don't have the brain power to learn the elegant game that so many purists on here pine for while they try to add the sport to schools/programs that have boys lacrosse. Americans are TOO SIMPLE MINDED to understand our (lacrosse fans) logical way of life.

Our best bet is to find the best version of the game with the headgear & pads moving forward.

[cltlax]

Y'all can hope all you want, but the game is headed (no pun intended) towards helmets + pads.

In order for the game to keep growing & maintain the interest of the southern, midwestern, & western populations - the game will have to continue to morph into something similar to the men's game, if nothing else than for the simplicity of the rules understanding.

we have MORE 1st generation girls lacrosse players playing now than ever before. one site posted a stat that there are more new girls lacrosse player outside of the NE cradle playing the game than inside of it for the 1st time in the game's history.

New officials, coaches, & parents (paying the bills for equipment, teams, travel, etc) don't have the brain power to learn the elegant game that so many purists on here pine for while they try to add the sport to schools/programs that have boys lacrosse. Americans are TOO SIMPLE MINDED to understand our (lacrosse fans) logical way of life.

Our best bet is to find the best version of the game with the headgear & pads moving forward.

If that's the case, I hope my two southern daughters are done playing by the time that gets implemented.

[Lucky13]

Does anyone know the statistics for concussions and head injuries in women’s lacrosse (if there are any)?

At the youth and HS level, I see far more concussions in girls soccer and basketball than in girls lacrosse. I’ve always wondered if part of the background push for helmets was due to the comparison with the men’s game.

[Dr. Tact]

Does anyone know the statistics for concussions and head injuries in women’s lacrosse (if there are any)?

At the youth and HS level, I see far more concussions in girls soccer and basketball than in girls lacrosse. I’ve always wondered if part of the background push for helmets was due to the comparison with the men’s game.

I think they did have studies in FLA. Probably can find it on the web....My sense is that some lawyers and helmet manufacturers saw a game with sticks flying around heads and thought it would be a good idea to legislate (in FLA) that players needed headgear.

I believe you are right...more concussions in Girls Soccer than Lax. My pedestrian understand is that while you can get a concussion from direct impact of a ball, body part, lax stick, the majority of girls concussions are whiplash based (brain hitting skull) and they may have more associated neck injuries than boys because of physiology. Whether that is true or not, I dont know, I am not a medical professional.

So, the stick contacting a head can cause injury to/on the skin, the helmet may protect against that, but the violent head/brain movement is likely minimally affected by the headgear. As noted by others, Headgear has been shown, anecdotally, to create more aggressive play by the wearer (again my opinion).

[old man]

Does anyone know the statistics for concussions and head injuries in women’s lacrosse (if there are any)?

At the youth and HS level, I see far more concussions in girls soccer and basketball than in girls lacrosse. I’ve always wondered if part of the background push for helmets was due to the comparison with the men’s game.

1 big arguement in this concussion debate is that the numbers CAN be skewed because concussions weren't really diagnosed over the last 100 years & now thanks to the NFL/NCAA fball with all the CTE media stories it's all the "rage".

While it's GREAT that we are treating concussions now & taking precautions, the data + results need to be looked at LOGICALLY to really see if headgear is helping or hurting the game.

[seacoaster]

Finally found this:

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20180 ... rosse.aspx

"The study examined data for girls' lacrosse players in Florida for the three years prior and three years after the implementation of the headgear mandate in 2015. Researchers also looked at similar data during the same time frame for boys' lacrosse to help assess for changes in injury recording or reporting over the same time period.

For girls' lacrosse, the years after the new helmet rule went into effect had significantly greater frequency of both concussions and musculoskeletal injuries compared to the years before players wore helmets. But there were no significant differences in concussions or other injuries in boys' lacrosse during the same time period.

Researchers indicate the use of greater amounts of protective headgear in girls' high school lacrosse may result in an elevated risk of injury, potentially via increased aggressiveness of play with the use of protective gear.

The use of protective headgear in girls' high school lacrosse may result in unintended effects on injury risk, and further monitoring of injury rates using large data sets is needed to verify these findings.

"The findings underscore the importance of continuing to study the effects of FHSAA's policy, which as of this season mandates the use of a hard-shell helmet. Everyone is for better player safety, but 'more' may not equate to 'better'."

[Dr. Tact]

Finally found this:

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20180 ... rosse.aspx

"The study examined data for girls' lacrosse players in Florida for the three years prior and three years after the implementation of the headgear mandate in 2015. Researchers also looked at similar data during the same time frame for boys' lacrosse to help assess for changes in injury recording or reporting over the same time period.

For girls' lacrosse, the years after the new helmet rule went into effect had significantly greater frequency of both concussions and musculoskeletal injuries compared to the years before players wore helmets. But there were no significant differences in concussions or other injuries in boys' lacrosse during the same time period.

Researchers indicate the use of greater amounts of protective headgear in girls' high school lacrosse may result in an elevated risk of injury, potentially via increased aggressiveness of play with the use of protective gear.

The use of protective headgear in girls' high school lacrosse may result in unintended effects on injury risk, and further monitoring of injury rates using large data sets is needed to verify these findings.

"The findings underscore the importance of continuing to study the effects of FHSAA's policy, which as of this season mandates the use of a hard-shell helmet. Everyone is for better player safety, but 'more' may not equate to 'better'."

That was the study I was remembering. Thanks for tracking it down.

[cltlax]

And now, a ton of schools are being forced to buy new helmets due to the SEI rules. https://www.tampalaxreport.com/2019/12/ ... 20-season/

“You’re probably looking at $3,000 to $4,000 per team that used Cascade LX.”

[seacoaster]

And now, a ton of schools are being forced to buy new helmets due to the SEI rules. https://www.tampalaxreport.com/2019/12/ ... 20-season/

“You’re probably looking at $3,000 to $4,000 per team that used Cascade LX.”

Another reason only to vacation in Florida?

[njbill]

I’d be interested in Chris Robinson’s thoughts on how helmets affect play. He coached high school for many years in Maryland and is now in his third year coaching HS in Florida.