Trump's Russian Collusion

[seacoaster]

I think the article 2/obstruction is actually the big deal here. Although I do think the bribery/shakedown is proven, illegal, impeachable and remove-able (if you want to do that).

But Trump's blanket stonewall is really the crazy dangerous thing:

1. Not one forking person is allowed to testify.
2. Not one forking piece of paper will be turned over.
3. Just because I said so. No need for any further justification or pretense.
4. If you don't like it, enjoy the next 2-3 years it will take to fight me through every level of court in the land. I have the world's biggest law firm (i.e. USDOJ plus the WH counsel office) at my disposal with unlimited resources. Bring it on dude.
5. Or try to vote me out of office. [N.B. This option unavailable during a second term obviously.]
6. I won the election. So go fork yourself and the Constitution you rode in on. [FYI, the folks in Congress got elected too.]
7. And by the way, I can't be prosecuted for what I do (USDOJ OLC opinion) so long as I am here.
8. And I also have unlimited power to pardon myself and my guys if need be.

That is way past the Nixon zone. If you let the stonewall go unchallenged, you only have two things to rely upon to prevent complete l'etat cest moi:

First, hopefully we'll never elect again as brazen a jerk as Trump. Normal people elected president should be too embarrassed and appalled to try something like this.

Second, we know Republicans would never put up with shirt like this. So Mitch, Lindsey, Hannity and the rest will flip flop their views within seconds of any commie Dem president being inaugurated. But our FNC friends should worry here about their chances of regaining of the House anytime soon. If the demo trends keep going and the House reverts to extended Dem control, there won't be one forking thing you can do when President AOC starts crime-ing around.

Great post. +101

[a fan]

There it is. Youth wants to focus his displeasure with the Dems, and ignore what Trump did. The Dems are bad, "therefore" Trump hasn't done anything wrong.

Trump, and what Trump has admitted to have done is wholly irrelevant to the conversation.


If you asked 100,000 Republicans two years ago if it was ok to use the power of government to go after a political enemy that was campaigning against you, 100,000 would give you a resounding yes.

Why? Because they would think that you're asking them about the Deep State going after Trump. Simple.

It's so transparently stupid. I'm assuming that by now we've all realized that if Nixon pulled his stunts in 2019, he would have skated, and it wouldn't have been a close call.

Oh well. Here we are.

[a fan]

If the demo trends keep going and the House reverts to extended Dem control, there won't be one forking thing you can do when President AOC starts crime-ing around.

It's like Gerrymandering. What the R's don't get when they're doing this on a Federal level, is that it puts extremists in power. And as they move further right...what do you think the natural reaction would be?

That's correct: the lefties get more extreme in reaction to the righties nutjobs. And they WILL gain power.

So instead of having moderates ruling our nation, as they should, compromising with left and right? We get idiots running our country.

We're doing this to ourselves.

[tech37]

I think the article 2/obstruction is actually the big deal here. Although I do think the bribery/shakedown is proven, illegal, impeachable and remove-able (if you want to do that).

But Trump's blanket stonewall is really the crazy dangerous thing:

1. Not one forking person is allowed to testify.
2. Not one forking piece of paper will be turned over.
3. Just because I said so. No need for any further justification or pretense.
4. If you don't like it, enjoy the next 2-3 years it will take to fight me through every level of court in the land. I have the world's biggest law firm (i.e. USDOJ plus the WH counsel office) at my disposal with unlimited resources. Bring it on dude.
5. Or try to vote me out of office. [N.B. This option unavailable during a second term obviously.]
6. I won the election. So go fork yourself and the Constitution you rode in on. [FYI, the folks in Congress got elected too.]
7. And by the way, I can't be prosecuted for what I do (USDOJ OLC opinion) so long as I am here.
8. And I also have unlimited power to pardon myself and my guys if need be.

That is way past the Nixon zone. If you let the stonewall go unchallenged, you only have two things to rely upon to prevent complete l'etat cest moi:

First, hopefully we'll never elect again as brazen a jerk as Trump. Normal people elected president should be too embarrassed and appalled to try something like this.

Second, we know Republicans would never put up with shirt like this. So Mitch, Lindsey, Hannity and the rest will flip flop their views within seconds of any commie Dem president being inaugurated. But our FNC friends should worry here about their chances of regaining of the House anytime soon. If the demo trends keep going and the House reverts to extended Dem control, there won't be one forking thing you can do when President AOC starts crime-ing around.

Great post. +101

kudos from the Jerrold Nadler (seacoaster) of fanlax

that emoji is for you

[youthathletics]

There it is. Youth wants to focus his displeasure with the Dems, and ignore what Trump did.

You, sir, are in the spin zone. Master of moving goal posts, speaking for others, and completely misconstruing a discussion.

[tech37]

There it is. Youth wants to focus his displeasure with the Dems, and ignore what Trump did.

You, sir, are in the spin zone. Master of moving goal posts, speaking for others, and completely misconstruing a discussion.

right youth, a fan's only clear lately has been the Gilman

[a fan]

Yep. Let's talk about the mean ol' Dems.

Oh my GOD did you hear what Rachel Maddow said, you guys? Can you BELIEVE how crazy she is? I told you she was a nut!


Come on boys. Tell us how stupid the Dems are. That'll fix everything, and make it so you don't have to think about Trump. Thinking is hard, I know.

[tech37]

Yep. Let's talk about the mean ol' Dems.

Oh my GOD did you hear what Rachel Maddow said, you guys? Can you BELIEVE how crazy she is? I told you she was a nut!


Come on boys. Tell us how stupid the Dems are. That'll fix everything, and make it so you don't have to think about Trump. Thinking is hard, I know.

I thought you didn't like Maddow...which is it?

[a fan]

Oh, I stopped paying attention to what my government does, and now I just spend my time watching those crazy Dems and telling everyone how bad they are.


The Dems are like, totally horrible, man! Don't they know their government is awesome, and shouldn't be questioned??

How'd I do? Did I use too many big words?

[Typical Lax Dad]

This impeachment chaos is getting out of hand. Shiff saying “the president's misconduct cannot be decided at the ballot box, for we cannot be assured that the vote will be fairly won.” is quite unnerving. IMO, his comments clearly project a god complex, that some on the left are clearly driven at all costs to be in power.

It's hardly chaos; you know better than that. This is about the most controlled enterprise I've ever watched. And the thrust of the proceeding is nearly entirely factual. Wait for Pat Cipp and Sekulow for the chaotic whataboutism. It's coming.

And the point: Trump tried this little scheme using Rudy and Lev and Gordo in order to influence the election. There's nothing unnerving (well, to me, anyway) about saying that the President's misconduct forfeits his ability to campaign, stand for, and try to fix another election.

He won't be convicted. But history will have recorded, in detail and with some flair and passion, his gross misdeeds and his deeply flawed character, and the fecklessness of the GOP members of the House and Senate. Imagine having your legacy attached forever to this amoral scrote. That'll have to be enough to be going on with.

an attempt at pre-emptive rationalization if ever there was one

A feckless comment, made by someone who has already agreed that using the levers of state for personal gain is all about what he admires in a President. I see Pete has followed on with his own silliness. You both just don't understand what you are complying with, what you're agreeing to, and what you are casting aside -- all for the Big Red R. Numbskulls.

Preemptive? Don't be a pumpkinhead (or, as I've suggested in the past, at least consult Randy before you post your silliness). The fix has always been in; McConnell toadied up to Hannity -- the Altar of the Craven and Venal -- on December 12.

This is the core of the President's team's defense of the obstruction charge:

“The subpoenas weren’t authorized because there was no vote or the subpoenas were to senior advisers to the president who are immune from congressional compulsion, or the subpoenas were forcing executive branch officials to testify without the presence of agency counsel.”

Let me say it again (warning: a couple of big words): "immune from congressional compulsion." L'Etat, C'est Orange? You guys are deranged, or just dumb.

what a class act

What is your disagreement with this impeachment process?

Pot, meet kettle was the intent of my post...played by Mr. Schiff.

The scare tactic by SChiff, of implying Trump has already influenced the ballot box is embarrassing, and again by a leftist talks down to the voters.....borderline 'deplorable' part deux.

In some ways he may have. Why do you think he wanted a “public announcement on TV” by the Ukrainian President? Do you think linking Joe Biden’s name to corruption in Ukraine has no impact?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Yep. Let's talk about the mean ol' Dems.

Oh my GOD did you hear what Rachel Maddow said, you guys? Can you BELIEVE how crazy she is? I told you she was a nut!


Come on boys. Tell us how stupid the Dems are. That'll fix everything, and make it so you don't have to think about Trump. Thinking is hard, I know.

I thought you didn't like Maddow...which is it?

What is your disagreement with this impeachment process?

[tech37]

Oh, I stopped paying attention to what my government does, and now I just spend my time watching those crazy Dems and telling everyone how bad they are.


The Dems are like, totally horrible, man! Don't they know their government is awesome, and shouldn't be questioned??

How'd I do? Did I use too many big words?

Oh, I've questioned certain aspects of my gov't a fan...waiting on Durham for that

[youthathletics]

This impeachment chaos is getting out of hand. Shiff saying “the president's misconduct cannot be decided at the ballot box, for we cannot be assured that the vote will be fairly won.” is quite unnerving. IMO, his comments clearly project a god complex, that some on the left are clearly driven at all costs to be in power.

It's hardly chaos; you know better than that. This is about the most controlled enterprise I've ever watched. And the thrust of the proceeding is nearly entirely factual. Wait for Pat Cipp and Sekulow for the chaotic whataboutism. It's coming.

And the point: Trump tried this little scheme using Rudy and Lev and Gordo in order to influence the election. There's nothing unnerving (well, to me, anyway) about saying that the President's misconduct forfeits his ability to campaign, stand for, and try to fix another election.

He won't be convicted. But history will have recorded, in detail and with some flair and passion, his gross misdeeds and his deeply flawed character, and the fecklessness of the GOP members of the House and Senate. Imagine having your legacy attached forever to this amoral scrote. That'll have to be enough to be going on with.

an attempt at pre-emptive rationalization if ever there was one

A feckless comment, made by someone who has already agreed that using the levers of state for personal gain is all about what he admires in a President. I see Pete has followed on with his own silliness. You both just don't understand what you are complying with, what you're agreeing to, and what you are casting aside -- all for the Big Red R. Numbskulls.

Preemptive? Don't be a pumpkinhead (or, as I've suggested in the past, at least consult Randy before you post your silliness). The fix has always been in; McConnell toadied up to Hannity -- the Altar of the Craven and Venal -- on December 12.

This is the core of the President's team's defense of the obstruction charge:

“The subpoenas weren’t authorized because there was no vote or the subpoenas were to senior advisers to the president who are immune from congressional compulsion, or the subpoenas were forcing executive branch officials to testify without the presence of agency counsel.”

Let me say it again (warning: a couple of big words): "immune from congressional compulsion." L'Etat, C'est Orange? You guys are deranged, or just dumb.

what a class act

What is your disagreement with this impeachment process?

Pot, meet kettle was the intent of my post...played by Mr. Schiff.

The scare tactic by SChiff, of implying Trump has already influenced the ballot box is embarrassing, and again by a leftist talks down to the voters.....borderline 'deplorable' part deux.

In some ways he may have. Why do you think he wanted a “public announcement on TV” by the Ukrainian President? Do you think linking Joe Biden’s name to corruption in Ukraine has no impact?

I am already on record as saying I see nothing wrong with Trump asking Ukraine to investigate pre-election shenanigans of 2016 AND Biden Crime Syndicate. Had Biden not put his name in the hat, you all would have zero issue with it, heck...I am sure you'd say lock him up if he is guilty. Biden being a 'potential' candidate should not mean he is untouchable. Would you rather Trump hire Steele to provide a dossier on Biden so we could call it opposition research....or would you rather a country that we support with defense do the opposition research for us?

[Typical Lax Dad]

This impeachment chaos is getting out of hand. Shiff saying “the president's misconduct cannot be decided at the ballot box, for we cannot be assured that the vote will be fairly won.” is quite unnerving. IMO, his comments clearly project a god complex, that some on the left are clearly driven at all costs to be in power.

It's hardly chaos; you know better than that. This is about the most controlled enterprise I've ever watched. And the thrust of the proceeding is nearly entirely factual. Wait for Pat Cipp and Sekulow for the chaotic whataboutism. It's coming.

And the point: Trump tried this little scheme using Rudy and Lev and Gordo in order to influence the election. There's nothing unnerving (well, to me, anyway) about saying that the President's misconduct forfeits his ability to campaign, stand for, and try to fix another election.

He won't be convicted. But history will have recorded, in detail and with some flair and passion, his gross misdeeds and his deeply flawed character, and the fecklessness of the GOP members of the House and Senate. Imagine having your legacy attached forever to this amoral scrote. That'll have to be enough to be going on with.

an attempt at pre-emptive rationalization if ever there was one

A feckless comment, made by someone who has already agreed that using the levers of state for personal gain is all about what he admires in a President. I see Pete has followed on with his own silliness. You both just don't understand what you are complying with, what you're agreeing to, and what you are casting aside -- all for the Big Red R. Numbskulls.

Preemptive? Don't be a pumpkinhead (or, as I've suggested in the past, at least consult Randy before you post your silliness). The fix has always been in; McConnell toadied up to Hannity -- the Altar of the Craven and Venal -- on December 12.

This is the core of the President's team's defense of the obstruction charge:

“The subpoenas weren’t authorized because there was no vote or the subpoenas were to senior advisers to the president who are immune from congressional compulsion, or the subpoenas were forcing executive branch officials to testify without the presence of agency counsel.”

Let me say it again (warning: a couple of big words): "immune from congressional compulsion." L'Etat, C'est Orange? You guys are deranged, or just dumb.

what a class act

What is your disagreement with this impeachment process?

Pot, meet kettle was the intent of my post...played by Mr. Schiff.

The scare tactic by SChiff, of implying Trump has already influenced the ballot box is embarrassing, and again by a leftist talks down to the voters.....borderline 'deplorable' part deux.

In some ways he may have. Why do you think he wanted a “public announcement on TV” by the Ukrainian President? Do you think linking Joe Biden’s name to corruption in Ukraine has no impact?

I am already on record as saying I see nothing wrong with Trump asking Ukraine to investigate pre-election shenanigans of 2016 AND Biden Crime Syndicate. Had Biden not put his name in the hat, you all would have zero issue with it, heck...I am sure you'd say lock him up if he is guilty. Biden being a 'potential' candidate should not mean he is untouchable. Would you rather Trump hire Steele to provide a dossier on Biden so we could call it opposition research....or would you rather a country that we support with defense do the opposition research for us?

Who said he was untouchable? FinCEN investigates corruption every day.

https://www.fincen.gov/news/news-releas ... -nicaragua

https://www.fincen.gov/resources/adviso ... -2014-a002

Not sure if Lev, Rudy and Igor works for them.

How do you feel about obstruction of Congress?

[youthathletics]

This impeachment chaos is getting out of hand. Shiff saying “the president's misconduct cannot be decided at the ballot box, for we cannot be assured that the vote will be fairly won.” is quite unnerving. IMO, his comments clearly project a god complex, that some on the left are clearly driven at all costs to be in power.

It's hardly chaos; you know better than that. This is about the most controlled enterprise I've ever watched. And the thrust of the proceeding is nearly entirely factual. Wait for Pat Cipp and Sekulow for the chaotic whataboutism. It's coming.

And the point: Trump tried this little scheme using Rudy and Lev and Gordo in order to influence the election. There's nothing unnerving (well, to me, anyway) about saying that the President's misconduct forfeits his ability to campaign, stand for, and try to fix another election.

He won't be convicted. But history will have recorded, in detail and with some flair and passion, his gross misdeeds and his deeply flawed character, and the fecklessness of the GOP members of the House and Senate. Imagine having your legacy attached forever to this amoral scrote. That'll have to be enough to be going on with.

an attempt at pre-emptive rationalization if ever there was one

A feckless comment, made by someone who has already agreed that using the levers of state for personal gain is all about what he admires in a President. I see Pete has followed on with his own silliness. You both just don't understand what you are complying with, what you're agreeing to, and what you are casting aside -- all for the Big Red R. Numbskulls.

Preemptive? Don't be a pumpkinhead (or, as I've suggested in the past, at least consult Randy before you post your silliness). The fix has always been in; McConnell toadied up to Hannity -- the Altar of the Craven and Venal -- on December 12.

This is the core of the President's team's defense of the obstruction charge:

“The subpoenas weren’t authorized because there was no vote or the subpoenas were to senior advisers to the president who are immune from congressional compulsion, or the subpoenas were forcing executive branch officials to testify without the presence of agency counsel.”

Let me say it again (warning: a couple of big words): "immune from congressional compulsion." L'Etat, C'est Orange? You guys are deranged, or just dumb.

what a class act

What is your disagreement with this impeachment process?

Pot, meet kettle was the intent of my post...played by Mr. Schiff.

The scare tactic by SChiff, of implying Trump has already influenced the ballot box is embarrassing, and again by a leftist talks down to the voters.....borderline 'deplorable' part deux.

In some ways he may have. Why do you think he wanted a “public announcement on TV” by the Ukrainian President? Do you think linking Joe Biden’s name to corruption in Ukraine has no impact?

I am already on record as saying I see nothing wrong with Trump asking Ukraine to investigate pre-election shenanigans of 2016 AND Biden Crime Syndicate. Had Biden not put his name in the hat, you all would have zero issue with it, heck...I am sure you'd say lock him up if he is guilty. Biden being a 'potential' candidate should not mean he is untouchable. Would you rather Trump hire Steele to provide a dossier on Biden so we could call it opposition research....or would you rather a country that we support with defense do the opposition research for us?

Who said he was untouchable?

Darned near every single never trumper on this forum has said it in so many words. I'm sure you'd be fine with Trump hiring Steele, especially since there is a clean precedent for doing so.

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.ukrinform.net/amp/rubric-ec ... rvice.html

Trump is free to hire an opposition research firm. Who did Reagan, Bush, Clinton and Obama hire?

https://www.fincen.gov/news/news-releas ... oncern-and

https://www.ukrinform.net/amp/rubric-ec ... rvice.html

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_research

https://www.npr.org/2019/06/13/73234050 ... t-the-same

[tech37]

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... ment-trial

Legal scholar Jonathan Turley said this week that Democratic House impeachment manager Jerry Nadler made a “huge blunder” during the Senate impeachment trial of President Trump.

[youthathletics]

https://www.ukrinform.net/amp/rubric-ec ... rvice.html

Trump is free to hire an opposition research firm. Who did Reagan, Bush, Clinton and Obama hire?

https://www.fincen.gov/news/news-releas ... oncern-and

https://www.ukrinform.net/amp/rubric-ec ... rvice.html

Deflecting, as usual. The entire Ukraine gov't pre April - 2019 was on the take. Trump asking Ukraine to investigate shenanigans by their last administration is clearly in the best interests of the USA...but you'd rather have a past cupport org "make it look official".

That's like asking your ex-cheating wife to spy on your new potential girlfriend and see if she is also cheating on you. Wouldn't you rather ask someone with some investment in decision to help you....that's all I am saying, Occams Razor applies.

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... ment-trial

Legal scholar Jonathan Turley said this week that Democratic House impeachment manager Jerry Nadler made a “huge blunder” during the Senate impeachment trial of President Trump.

You care about “blunders”...