2020 Preason Top 20

[Typical Lax Dad]

HopFan16 wrote
How on earth is Dordevic a preseason AA after not playing for a year? He only had 15 goals his freshman season—not like he was lighting up the scoreboard.

To take you a step further, how is anyone a preseason AA, T Award candidate, etc, etc, etc when they haven't even stepped on the field yet? I put zero stock in preseason polls and accolades. All based on potential, and we all know the definition of potential is you haven't done it yet.
I'm not ready to award any team the NC trophy, name anyone an AA, or give the T Award to anyone quite yet. As for Dordevic, maybe some of these guys have seen him play a little fall ball or been to a practice or two. The freshman who only had 15 goals is now a 21 year old (next month) more confident, more aggressive, bigger, stronger, faster, hungry player who has obviosly been working his tail off during the year he was sidelined. This kid is looking mighty good right now, if I had to point out a fault it would be that he's too aggressive and too hungry and looking to make up for lost time, but he'll calm down and get into the groove as the season goes on. The Cuse team is hungry and the attitude of the team is in the right place...lot of good players on this team, we'll see how it all works out.

My dark horse team.

[HooDat]

The obvious "Yeah, but what about...?"s from Inside Lacrosse's Preseason Rankings are Notre Dame and Cornell.

I am curious how ND plays with Byrne gone. From the outside, my impression was that Byrne's was doing a lot of the behind the scenes grinding for that program while it made its rise into the "upper echelons". How much did he balance out Corrigan? How much did he impact the overall culture? The next few seasons will show us, but my prediction is on a rise for Harvard and a fall for ND.

I agree on Cornell

[Cooter]

I think the #8 ranking is totally justifiable. The 7 All-Americans, however...not so sure about that. Everyone at ESPN is a Syracuse alum, and they tend to talk a lot about Cuse players, which in turn impacts perceptions of those players. How on earth is Dordevic a preseason AA after not playing for a year? He only had 15 goals his freshman season—not like he was lighting up the scoreboard. Good player with potential to be great, don't get me wrong, but that one was a stretch. But that was probably because Carc cannot stop talking about the kid, so he's now a name that people know. The people voting on these preseason awards are not any more knowledgable than you or I—most of the time I'd wager they are considerably LESS knowledgable. So they go with the guys they've heard of, and people have heard of Syracuse players.

I am with you here. On a short list of honorable mentions, why not go with someone who actually got it done last year, like Tre LeClaire.

I also find it strange that the coaches voted Jared Bernhardt 1st team AA last spring, yet IL feels they need (like they know better) to drop him to 2nd team.

[JBFortunato]

The obvious "Yeah, but what about...?"s from Inside Lacrosse's Preseason Rankings are Notre Dame and Cornell.

I am curious how ND plays with Byrne gone. From the outside, my impression was that Byrne's was doing a lot of the behind the scenes grinding for that program while it made its rise into the "upper echelons". How much did he balance out Corrigan? How much did he impact the overall culture? The next few seasons will show us, but my prediction is on a rise for Harvard and a fall for ND.

I agree on Cornell

I think Harvard is the program that will shock people over the next few seasons. That roster is loaded with talent, and it feels like Byrne is the right guy to get the talent to produce results.
Not to diminish what the new assistants at Yale will bring to the program, but Yale will have a tough year (maybe two) in the wake of Baxter and Stimmel leaving. IMHO their contributions individually and as part of a well-oiled coaching staff "team" were significant to both performance and team culture, and it could take a few seasons for the program to fully recover. I think Penn and Harvard, along with Cornell, will be the teams to beat in the Ivy this season.

[Matnum PI]

Based on the last few posts, I think we're about to find out the relative weight of player talent vs. quality coaching.

[calourie]

The obvious "Yeah, but what about...?"s from Inside Lacrosse's Preseason Rankings are Notre Dame and Cornell.

I am curious how ND plays with Byrne gone. From the outside, my impression was that Byrne's was doing a lot of the behind the scenes grinding for that program while it made its rise into the "upper echelons". How much did he balance out Corrigan? How much did he impact the overall culture? The next few seasons will show us, but my prediction is on a rise for Harvard and a fall for ND.

I agree on Cornell

I think Harvard is the program that will shock people over the next few seasons. That roster is loaded with talent, and it feels like Byrne is the right guy to get the talent to produce results.
Not to diminish what the new assistants at Yale will bring to the program, but Yale will have a tough year (maybe two) in the wake of Baxter and Stimmel leaving. IMHO their contributions individually and as part of a well-oiled coaching staff "team" were significant to both performance and team culture, and it could take a few seasons for the program to fully recover. I think Penn and Harvard, along with Cornell, will be the teams to beat in the Ivy this season.

.
Outspoken Shay advocate here who couldn't let JB's comment get by without comment. The possibility certainly exists that the Yale program could fall off significantly this season with the loss of both principal assistants Stimmel and Baxter, but in my mind that is highly unlikely to happen. I could rest my case with a simple "TD Ierlan, TD Ierlan, TD Ierlan" refrain, but I will flesh it out with the idea that Shay has created a very player driven culture whereby performance accountability is as much a function of player pressure as it is dependent on coaching experience. Shay has had several highly regarded assistants move on, Polley to BU, Niemi to Fairfield Prep, currently reintroduced OC Tom Compitello to Lehigh, without the program missing a beat, and I project the same result will accrue this year. A more significant variable is likely to be the replacement of a very impressive first midfield, and the need for a defense which on paper is well manned to step up, but I think the pieces are there to make this happen. Obviously we will just have to wait and see whose vision is the more prescient, but that is the perspective I have from out here on the west coast.

[Matnum PI]

D1 MEN: Vegas Odds
Take SU or UNC and the Field. Good values...

[Dunker]

Matnum Pi: Just where does one go to make those bets?

I agree, Cuse is good value. From what I read, UNC is part of the field, also good value. However, good value is worthless unless team has legit shot to win and Cuse probably does.
MD. is good value because they seem to always make FF. Yale good value with TD.

It's very hard to make a lot of money in Lacrosse betting.

[HopFan16]

Man, I'll take Duke with those odds. Even in an "off" year in 2019, they still somehow made the Final Four and very nearly another championship game. 6 FFs, 4 championship appearances, 3 titles in the last decade. Danowski just keeps getting it done. And now they bring in a stellar recruiting class to fill some of the holes that kept them from being truly elite last year. They are not my pick to win it all but at +1500—the same odds as Penn and only slightly worse odds than ND—that's good value.

I think the field is also a solid choice. That gives you UNC, Cornell, Hopkins, and Loyola. I'd probably roll the dice on the chances that one of those four win it before I commit entirely to a team like Ohio State or Denver at much worse odds.

[HooDat]

Based on the last few posts, I think we're about to find out the relative weight of player talent vs. quality coaching.

we have pretty decent scientific set-up at ND and Harvard.


As to the idea that Harvard is ready to compete with Yale or Penn this year - I am a big Byrne fan, but I ain't buying that. I think Harvard being competitive with Cornell and Brown this year would be a good thing and a step in the right direction. Byrne has a culture to implement, and no insult to the Harvard roster, but he isn't walking into the candy-store that awaited Tiffany in Charlottesville.

[spartanslynx]

Chris Jastrzembiski from College Crosse has no Loyola in his pre-season top 20

https://mobile.twitter.com/Chris_Jast/s ... 9994414080

[Mr3Putt]

Maybe Inside Lacrosse people are correct, but Dordevic is getting a lot of attention. According to the way people talk , he should be 4 and 2 every game! Nothing less will be acceptable.

[stupefied]

Did anyone see OSU 2017 season coming. May be a year early but that 3000 payoff lures as does Cuse @2200.
Surprised Maryland that high as well , thinking their ff bound and take that before ones in front .

[Matnum PI]

[HopFan16]

Someone is going to have to explain Denver at #9 to me. Is that just the coaches giving Tierney tons of respect? The Pios missed the tourney last year and now lose French, Jackson, and virtually the entire defense (which was the strength of the team in 2019). Life without Baptiste was tough. While they bring in Stathakis and it's never a good idea to completely count out a Tierney-coached team, I'm not sure I buy the top 10 argument. I'd put them behind the UNC-Hop-OSU-Cornell group.

[hens62]

The obvious "Yeah, but what about...?"s from Inside Lacrosse's Preseason Rankings are Notre Dame and Cornell.

I am curious how ND plays with Byrne gone. From the outside, my impression was that Byrne's was doing a lot of the behind the scenes grinding for that program while it made its rise into the "upper echelons". How much did he balance out Corrigan? How much did he impact the overall culture? The next few seasons will show us, but my prediction is on a rise for Harvard and a fall for ND.

I agree on Cornell

Feel like the common perception is that Corrigan sat in the office while Byrne ran practice every day... no one is disagreeing Byrne is the man, but Corrigan ran the show and has been for 30+ years. He also hired two very high level assistants in Wojcik & Wellner

Expect the Irish to be a dark horse this year. Only hole is in cage, and I hear the frosh from Chaminade took the job right away. Also expect Kavanagh #2 to be a spark right away

[wgdsr]

Someone is going to have to explain Denver at #9 to me. Is that just the coaches giving Tierney tons of respect? The Pios missed the tourney last year and now lose French, Jackson, and virtually the entire defense (which was the strength of the team in 2019). Life without Baptiste was tough. While they bring in Stathakis and it's never a good idea to completely count out a Tierney-coached team, I'm not sure I buy the top 10 argument. I'd put them behind the UNC-Hop-OSU-Cornell group.

all those teams could be in any kind of order, denver included. they were 10 and 5 last year, had some good wins, always have talent. biggest mistake last year for both them and osu, and it's not all in hindsight, is not rescheduling their game together. winner would've been tough(er) to leave out.

[kramerica.inc]

Chris Jastrzembiski from College Crosse has no Loyola in his pre-season top 20

https://mobile.twitter.com/Chris_Jast/s ... 9994414080

Jabroni.

[HooDat]

The obvious "Yeah, but what about...?"s from Inside Lacrosse's Preseason Rankings are Notre Dame and Cornell.

I am curious how ND plays with Byrne gone. From the outside, my impression was that Byrne's was doing a lot of the behind the scenes grinding for that program while it made its rise into the "upper echelons". How much did he balance out Corrigan? How much did he impact the overall culture? The next few seasons will show us, but my prediction is on a rise for Harvard and a fall for ND.

I agree on Cornell

Feel like the common perception is that Corrigan sat in the office while Byrne ran practice every day... no one is disagreeing Byrne is the man, but Corrigan ran the show and has been for 30+ years. He also hired two very high level assistants in Wojcik & Wellner

Expect the Irish to be a dark horse this year. Only hole is in cage, and I hear the frosh from Chaminade took the job right away. Also expect Kavanagh #2 to be a spark right away

Make no mistake, Byrne is an INTENSE individual. My impression is not that Corrigan sat in the office, nor that Byrne ran things. More that Byrne was able to temper Corrigan in a COMPLIMENTARY way. That dynamic is hard to replicate.