Trump's Russian Collusion

[DocBarrister]

MDLF76:
Was Schiff involved with the committal of the crimes alleged of Trump? Was he complicit in any of those alleged crimes, does he have direct testimony as to the President's culpability or not? Same for the WB, etc. Nope, they are not offered as fact witnesses against Trump because others have direct knowledge.

Want to have a trial about other crimes not alleged by the House (prosecution)? Go for it. Indict away.

Same for any allegations about Hunter Biden. Bring the case.

Nunes apparently was actually involved in the commission of the crimes...the conspiracy to remove an ambassador and other favors, and ultimately military aid, in exchange for political dirt on Trump's political adversary.

Apparently ? ...based on what ? Lev's nonspecific, uncorroborated tv testimony ?

It's up to a vote of 51 Senators to determine who they want to hear from in this political process.

There have been no rules of evidence up to this point. Why start now ?

House Democrats released new documents Friday evening showing extensive contact between an associate of President Trump’s personal attorney and an aide to the top Republican on the House Intelligence Committee regarding the effort to obtain material from Ukrainian prosecutors that would be damaging to former vice president Joe Biden.

The text messages between Lev Parnas, who functioned as Rudolph W. Giuliani’s emissary to Ukrainian officials, and Derek Harvey, an aide to Rep. Devin Nunes, the ranking Republican on the House Intelligence Committee, indicate Nunes’s office was aware of the operation at the heart of impeachment proceedings against the president — and sought to use the information Parnas was gathering.
The newly released texts show that Parnas was working last spring to set up calls for Harvey with the Ukrainian prosecutors who were feeding Giuliani information about Biden.

... The text messages corroborate Parnas’s previous claims that he arranged conversations with the Ukrainian prosecutors for the Nunes aide. And they deepen questions about how much Nunes knew about the pressure campaign — even as he served as one of Trump’s most vociferous defenders during the House impeachment hearings.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... story.html

Devin Nunes and Donald Trump could be headed to prison. This is solicitation of campaign assistance from a foreign national, a big no no.

Pretty much proves that Nunes, like Trump, is a corrupt, lying piece of trash.

What does that say about their defenders?

DocBarrister

[old salt]

Shame on Sec Pompeo for not safeguarding Amb Masha from this band of evil geniuses.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/trump- ... s-n1118226

Maybe Azra Turk is the nom de guerre used by Karyn Turk.

[old salt]

MDLF76:
Was Schiff involved with the committal of the crimes alleged of Trump? Was he complicit in any of those alleged crimes, does he have direct testimony as to the President's culpability or not? Same for the WB, etc. Nope, they are not offered as fact witnesses against Trump because others have direct knowledge.

Want to have a trial about other crimes not alleged by the House (prosecution)? Go for it. Indict away.

Same for any allegations about Hunter Biden. Bring the case.

Nunes apparently was actually involved in the commission of the crimes...the conspiracy to remove an ambassador and other favors, and ultimately military aid, in exchange for political dirt on Trump's political adversary.

Apparently ? ...based on what ? Lev's nonspecific, uncorroborated tv testimony ?

It's up to a vote of 51 Senators to determine who they want to hear from in this political process.

There have been no rules of evidence up to this point. Why start now ?

House Democrats released new documents Friday evening showing extensive contact between an associate of President Trump’s personal attorney and an aide to the top Republican on the House Intelligence Committee regarding the effort to obtain material from Ukrainian prosecutors that would be damaging to former vice president Joe Biden.

The text messages between Lev Parnas, who functioned as Rudolph W. Giuliani’s emissary to Ukrainian officials, and Derek Harvey, an aide to Rep. Devin Nunes, the ranking Republican on the House Intelligence Committee, indicate Nunes’s office was aware of the operation at the heart of impeachment proceedings against the president — and sought to use the information Parnas was gathering.
The newly released texts show that Parnas was working last spring to set up calls for Harvey with the Ukrainian prosecutors who were feeding Giuliani information about Biden.

... The text messages corroborate Parnas’s previous claims that he arranged conversations with the Ukrainian prosecutors for the Nunes aide. And they deepen questions about how much Nunes knew about the pressure campaign — even as he served as one of Trump’s most vociferous defenders during the House impeachment hearings.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... story.html

Devin Nunes and Donald Trump could be headed to prison. This is solicitation of campaign assistance from a foreign national, a big no no.

Pretty much proves that Nunes, like Trump, is a corrupt, lying piece of trash.

What does that say about their defenders?

DocBarrister

Going to prison for what ? A HPSIC staffer following up on allegations of a family member of a US govt official receiving illicit Ukrainian funds ? Willing to listen to a Ukrainian Prosecutor ?

I'd be disappointed if he didn't follow up. Schiff took a phone call from a couple shock jocks posing as Russians with dirt on Trump & passed them to his staff for follow up. Maybe they'll play the recording of the Schiff phone call during the impeachment trial.

[ardilla secreta]

Just announced. Dewey, Cheatem & Howe added to Trump defense council. Expected to enact the Santa clause.

[old salt]

Ukraine's Foreign Minister throws Lev under the bus. Rudy who ?

https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2020/0 ... ur-vpx.cnn

[DocBarrister]

MDLF76:
Was Schiff involved with the committal of the crimes alleged of Trump? Was he complicit in any of those alleged crimes, does he have direct testimony as to the President's culpability or not? Same for the WB, etc. Nope, they are not offered as fact witnesses against Trump because others have direct knowledge.

Want to have a trial about other crimes not alleged by the House (prosecution)? Go for it. Indict away.

Same for any allegations about Hunter Biden. Bring the case.

Nunes apparently was actually involved in the commission of the crimes...the conspiracy to remove an ambassador and other favors, and ultimately military aid, in exchange for political dirt on Trump's political adversary.

Apparently ? ...based on what ? Lev's nonspecific, uncorroborated tv testimony ?

It's up to a vote of 51 Senators to determine who they want to hear from in this political process.

There have been no rules of evidence up to this point. Why start now ?

House Democrats released new documents Friday evening showing extensive contact between an associate of President Trump’s personal attorney and an aide to the top Republican on the House Intelligence Committee regarding the effort to obtain material from Ukrainian prosecutors that would be damaging to former vice president Joe Biden.

The text messages between Lev Parnas, who functioned as Rudolph W. Giuliani’s emissary to Ukrainian officials, and Derek Harvey, an aide to Rep. Devin Nunes, the ranking Republican on the House Intelligence Committee, indicate Nunes’s office was aware of the operation at the heart of impeachment proceedings against the president — and sought to use the information Parnas was gathering.
The newly released texts show that Parnas was working last spring to set up calls for Harvey with the Ukrainian prosecutors who were feeding Giuliani information about Biden.

... The text messages corroborate Parnas’s previous claims that he arranged conversations with the Ukrainian prosecutors for the Nunes aide. And they deepen questions about how much Nunes knew about the pressure campaign — even as he served as one of Trump’s most vociferous defenders during the House impeachment hearings.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... story.html

Devin Nunes and Donald Trump could be headed to prison. This is solicitation of campaign assistance from a foreign national, a big no no.

Pretty much proves that Nunes, like Trump, is a corrupt, lying piece of trash.

What does that say about their defenders?

DocBarrister

Going to prison for what ? A HPSIC staffer following up on allegations of a family member of a US govt official receiving illicit Ukrainian funds ? Willing to listen to a Ukrainian Prosecutor ?

I'd be disappointed if he didn't follow up. Schiff took a phone call from a couple shock jocks posing as Russians with dirt on Trump & passed them to his staff for follow up. Maybe they'll play the recording of the Schiff phone call during the impeachment trial.

Old Salt, you are either ignorant of the facts or a shameless liar.

When an elected federal official gets notice that a foreign national wants to set up a call in order to pass on dirt about a political opponent, that elected official is legally obliged to contact the FBI. That’s precisely what Schiff did: before the call with the pranksters, he called the FBI. Then on the call itself, he said he would contact the FBI with the information and encouraged the pranksters to do the same. Schiff handled the situation in legal and textbook fashion:

The call actually turned out to be two Russian comedians, and the pranksters leaked audio of the phone call with Schiff.

But in the audio, which was first reported by The Atlantic last year, Schiff tells the caller he's going to speak to the FBI and encourages the official to do the same. "I'll be in touch with the FBI about this. And we'll make arrangements with your staff. I think it probably would be best to provide these materials both to our committee and to the FBI," Schiff says.

Schiff said on Thursday that he called the FBI before speaking to the pranksters.

"We did go to the FBI," Schiff told reporters. "The first thing we did was call the FBI, even before we received the call from these individuals."

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/13/politics ... index.html

That’s a far stretch from what Nunes, Parnas, Giuliani, and Trump worked to do, which is to coerce a foreign government to announce a sham investigation into a leading political opponent. Note that Nunes, unlike Schiff, never contacted the FBI or informed the House Intelligence Committee about these criminal efforts.

So ... what are you, Old Salt ... ignorant of the facts about the Schiff prank call ... or a shameless liar?

DocBarrister

[DocBarrister]

Ukraine's Foreign Minister throws Lev under the bus. Rudy who ?

https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2020/0 ... ur-vpx.cnn

Trump is still president and is still grabbing Ukraine by the balls.

Do you think Ukraine is stupid enough to do anything to further anger a criminal American president who has already shown a willingness to resort to outright extortion to get what he wants?

Do you understand that?

DocBarrister

[old salt]

Ukraine's Foreign Minister throws Lev under the bus. Rudy who ?

https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2020/0 ... ur-vpx.cnn

Trump is still president and is still grabbing Ukraine by the balls.

Do you think Ukraine is stupid enough to do anything to further anger a criminal American president who has already shown a willingness to resort to outright extortion to get what he wants?

Do you understand that?

DocBarrister

The 2 previous Ukrainian Prosecutor Generals, & at least 2 additional prosecutors, were trying to provide info on the Bidens, Burisma & involvement in the 2016 election, but they were being blocked by Amb Masha who would not give them a visa to come to the US. Why was she blocking them ? It's not her call to determine who can provide evidence. Let Congressional investigators determine whether or not it is credible, & the FBI determine if it is actionable. It was ok in 2016 for the Ukrainians to send out evidence on Manafort via A Chalopa, but now it's an impeachable offense to send out evidence via Congressional investigators. What was Amb Masha afraid would come out ? Did she not trust the FBI, our IC & Congressional investigators to sort it out & assess it's credibility ? Was everyone in our Kyiv Embassy & State Dept afraid it might impact the aid package to Ukraine ?

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/1 ... nas-100732

The newly released text messages show Harvey asking Parnas to pursue several lines of inquiry with his Ukrainian contacts, including one regarding what Harvey calls “rumors” about coordination between the 2016 campaign of Hillary Clinton and the Ukrainian government to dig up dirt on Trump’s campaign manager Paul Manafort.

Harvey asked a few days later whether Parnas was preparing to send documents or if he would “keep working through [John] Solomon,” a reference to a former columnist at The Hill who was working closely with Parnas and Giuliani on the effort.

Over the next few weeks, the pair attempted to arrange Skype interviews between Republican staff of the Intelligence Committee and senior officials in Ukraine, including former prosecutors Viktor Shokin and Yuri Lutsenko, who had been working to oust Yovanovitch and had offered up allegations of dirt on Biden.

[Peter Brown]

Orange man bad though

Trump's charity is shut down because of corruption. And your reaction is that we must be insane to criticize this. Who the F do you know that had their charity shut down for corruption?

As if this is just no big deal, and just another day in the city. "Oh, I know a guy who had FIVE charities that we shut down for fraud. So really, Trump's fraud is just no bid deal". Where do you come up with this stuff?

I LOVE that you pretend to hate government. And yet somehow, magically, the head of the US Federal Government can do no wrong in your eyes.

That's quite the little world you've concocted for yourself. Nicely done.

I’m fairly sure I said Trumps foundation was “illegal”. You can go back and verify that claim. I also said if we are comparing apples, his fraud doesn’t come within a couple universes of Clinton’s. Clinton simply was smarter with better lawyers. Trump is a small town hustler. The Clinton’s are the OG’s.

But hey, orange man bad and all that. Two million versus two billion.

What was the fraud at the Clinton Foundation? Bigger dollars bigger fraud. How bad was it? Post the link whenever you can.

If a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it, did it ever really fall? What the Clintons did is perfectly ‘legal’. Totally unethical and warped, but that’s life. They get to charter private jets to prepaid vacations and never reach into their own pockets. Saudi Arabia pays for the G5’s and Round Hill, and Bill and Hilary remain just out of the reach of the law. The tree fell but you didn’t hear it. Of course you love this setup. Trump wasn’t smart enough, or maybe he was too egotistical, to squeeze the juice like Bill and Hillary.

I don’t lose sleep over their schemes; I’m just glad enough people saw her for what she is and punished her at the ballot box, as it always should happen.

[Peter Brown]

Orange man bad though

Trump's charity is shut down because of corruption. And your reaction is that we must be insane to criticize this. Who the F do you know that had their charity shut down for corruption?

As if this is just no big deal, and just another day in the city. "Oh, I know a guy who had FIVE charities that we shut down for fraud. So really, Trump's fraud is just no bid deal". Where do you come up with this stuff?

I LOVE that you pretend to hate government. And yet somehow, magically, the head of the US Federal Government can do no wrong in your eyes.

That's quite the little world you've concocted for yourself. Nicely done.

I’m fairly sure I said Trumps foundation was “illegal”. You can go back and verify that claim. I also said if we are comparing apples, his fraud doesn’t come within a couple universes of Clinton’s. Clinton simply was smarter with better lawyers. Trump is a small town hustler. The Clinton’s are the OG’s.

But hey, orange man bad and all that. Two million versus two billion.

What was the fraud at the Clinton Foundation? Bigger dollars bigger fraud. How bad was it? Post the link whenever you can.

If a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it, did it ever really fall? What the Clintons did is perfectly ‘legal’. Totally unethical and warped, but that’s life. The Foundation charters their private jets to prepaid vacations and never reach into their own pockets. Saudi Arabia (a huge Foundation benefactor) pays for the G5’s and Round Hill, and Bill and Hilary remain just out of the reach of the law. The tree fell but you didn’t hear it. Of course you love this setup. Trump wasn’t smart enough, or maybe he was too egotistical, to squeeze the juice like Bill and Hillary.

I don’t lose sleep over their schemes; I’m just glad enough people saw her for what she is and punished her at the ballot box, as it always should happen.

$2 million versus $2 BILLION. Lol. But orange man is bad. You guys kill me.

[Trinity]

“What #jeffreyepstein’s lawyers said was that these young girls (13, 14, 15) were prostitutes and Alan Dershowitz trashed these girls more than any of the other lawyers. #JeffreyEpstein”

Julie K Brown, Miami Herald

[MDlaxfan76]

MDLF76:
Was Schiff involved with the committal of the crimes alleged of Trump? Was he complicit in any of those alleged crimes, does he have direct testimony as to the President's culpability or not? Same for the WB, etc. Nope, they are not offered as fact witnesses against Trump because others have direct knowledge.

Want to have a trial about other crimes not alleged by the House (prosecution)? Go for it. Indict away.

Same for any allegations about Hunter Biden. Bring the case.

Nunes apparently was actually involved in the commission of the crimes...the conspiracy to remove an ambassador and other favors, and ultimately military aid, in exchange for political dirt on Trump's political adversary.

Apparently ? ...based on what ? Lev's nonspecific, uncorroborated tv testimony ?

It's up to a vote of 51 Senators to determine who they want to hear from in this political process.

There have been no rules of evidence up to this point. Why start now ?

House Democrats released new documents Friday evening showing extensive contact between an associate of President Trump’s personal attorney and an aide to the top Republican on the House Intelligence Committee regarding the effort to obtain material from Ukrainian prosecutors that would be damaging to former vice president Joe Biden.

The text messages between Lev Parnas, who functioned as Rudolph W. Giuliani’s emissary to Ukrainian officials, and Derek Harvey, an aide to Rep. Devin Nunes, the ranking Republican on the House Intelligence Committee, indicate Nunes’s office was aware of the operation at the heart of impeachment proceedings against the president — and sought to use the information Parnas was gathering.
The newly released texts show that Parnas was working last spring to set up calls for Harvey with the Ukrainian prosecutors who were feeding Giuliani information about Biden.

... The text messages corroborate Parnas’s previous claims that he arranged conversations with the Ukrainian prosecutors for the Nunes aide. And they deepen questions about how much Nunes knew about the pressure campaign — even as he served as one of Trump’s most vociferous defenders during the House impeachment hearings.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... story.html

Devin Nunes and Donald Trump could be headed to prison. This is solicitation of campaign assistance from a foreign national, a big no no.

Pretty much proves that Nunes, like Trump, is a corrupt, lying piece of trash.

What does that say about their defenders?

DocBarrister

Going to prison for what ? A HPSIC staffer following up on allegations of a family member of a US govt official receiving illicit Ukrainian funds ? Willing to listen to a Ukrainian Prosecutor ?

I'd be disappointed if he didn't follow up. Schiff took a phone call from a couple shock jocks posing as Russians with dirt on Trump & passed them to his staff for follow up. Maybe they'll play the recording of the Schiff phone call during the impeachment trial.

Silly Trumpist response, as there's no allegation of an actual conspiracy to solicit or pressure in the Schiff matter.
Not so with the Trump matter.

If there's an indictment on federal election violations, Nunes could indeed get caught up in it, but it will need substantially more evidence that he personally was involved with the effort, through his aide. It's pretty clear that may well be the case, indeed likely that's the case, as there's documentation his aide was far more in contact than we might have first thought. And there's available testimony to that. There's an allegation and testimonial support that Nunes was fully in the know, but the documentation of that is limited so far. The prosecutors would likely need to see text messages or emails or memos etc from the aide to Nunes and back, and/or testimony by the aide or someone else witnessing such communication and knowledge. Our best guess would be that such exists, but that's what would be necessary to have before an indictment would be provable, absent a confession by Nunes. And no one should hold their breath on that.

I doubt we'll see all that, but, hey, this stuff just keeps rolling in. My bet would be an ethics violation case in the House, as it was a huge breach of ethics for Nunes to play the role of outraged inquisitor of the various folks testifying before his committee as if he didn't know it had indeed happened.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Orange man bad though

Trump's charity is shut down because of corruption. And your reaction is that we must be insane to criticize this. Who the F do you know that had their charity shut down for corruption?

As if this is just no big deal, and just another day in the city. "Oh, I know a guy who had FIVE charities that we shut down for fraud. So really, Trump's fraud is just no bid deal". Where do you come up with this stuff?

I LOVE that you pretend to hate government. And yet somehow, magically, the head of the US Federal Government can do no wrong in your eyes.

That's quite the little world you've concocted for yourself. Nicely done.

I’m fairly sure I said Trumps foundation was “illegal”. You can go back and verify that claim. I also said if we are comparing apples, his fraud doesn’t come within a couple universes of Clinton’s. Clinton simply was smarter with better lawyers. Trump is a small town hustler. The Clinton’s are the OG’s.

But hey, orange man bad and all that. Two million versus two billion.

What was the fraud at the Clinton Foundation? Bigger dollars bigger fraud. How bad was it? Post the link whenever you can.

If a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it, did it ever really fall? What the Clintons did is perfectly ‘legal’. Totally unethical and warped, but that’s life. The Foundation charters their private jets to prepaid vacations and never reach into their own pockets. Saudi Arabia (a huge Foundation benefactor) pays for the G5’s and Round Hill, and Bill and Hilary remain just out of the reach of the law. The tree fell but you didn’t hear it. Of course you love this setup. Trump wasn’t smart enough, or maybe he was too egotistical, to squeeze the juice like Bill and Hillary.

I don’t lose sleep over their schemes; I’m just glad enough people saw her for what she is and punished her at the ballot box, as it always should happen.

$2 million versus $2 BILLION. Lol. But orange man is bad. You guys kill me.

I am more concerned with Russian and Saudi financial ties to the POTUS. Why aren't you?

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2020/01/10/ ... -attorney/

[MDlaxfan76]

Orange man bad though

Trump's charity is shut down because of corruption. And your reaction is that we must be insane to criticize this. Who the F do you know that had their charity shut down for corruption?

As if this is just no big deal, and just another day in the city. "Oh, I know a guy who had FIVE charities that we shut down for fraud. So really, Trump's fraud is just no bid deal". Where do you come up with this stuff?

I LOVE that you pretend to hate government. And yet somehow, magically, the head of the US Federal Government can do no wrong in your eyes.

That's quite the little world you've concocted for yourself. Nicely done.

I’m fairly sure I said Trumps foundation was “illegal”. You can go back and verify that claim. I also said if we are comparing apples, his fraud doesn’t come within a couple universes of Clinton’s. Clinton simply was smarter with better lawyers. Trump is a small town hustler. The Clinton’s are the OG’s.

But hey, orange man bad and all that. Two million versus two billion.

What was the fraud at the Clinton Foundation? Bigger dollars bigger fraud. How bad was it? Post the link whenever you can.

If a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it, did it ever really fall? What the Clintons did is perfectly ‘legal’. Totally unethical and warped, but that’s life. They get to charter private jets to prepaid vacations and never reach into their own pockets. Saudi Arabia pays for the G5’s and Round Hill, and Bill and Hilary remain just out of the reach of the law. The tree fell but you didn’t hear it. Of course you love this setup. Trump wasn’t smart enough, or maybe he was too egotistical, to squeeze the juice like Bill and Hillary.

I don’t lose sleep over their schemes; I’m just glad enough people saw her for what she is and punished her at the ballot box, as it always should happen.

PB, I too think the Clintons have walked the edge of legality, and IMO crossed the line ethically, but I think you drink too much from the right wing media propaganda machine. Most of what you say is not accurate nor complete. And what you ignore is that the Clinton Foundation actually did/does enormous good with its funds. The vast majority of that Foundation is actually used to make a difference in the world, for others. That matters when we think about the good/bad of this comparison.

Please don't misunderstand, I can make an argument about the Clintons and their egos, the benefits to them personally of being seen publicly doing good, the enjoyment of flying around the world and being received as muckety-mucks, wined and dined, treated to all sorts of perks...

But the Trump Foundation was clearly a criminal enterprise, not actually designed to benefit others, but rather solely to line their own pockets while pretending to do something for others.

If we compare the Clintons and Trumps, I think we can say that the Clintons are not 'ethical' in all cases, or at least are subject to ego and hubris, however they do understand and fundamentally respect that there are laws that restrict or compel behavior. They follow the law, best we can actually know for sure.

By contrast, the Trumps clearly have no respect for the law, they are full on criminals. The law is merely an impediment to their objectives, a threat they need to manage or avoid.

Big difference.

I know that's inconvenient if you prefer Trump to continue to be in office for some reason, but that's the way it is.

[Trinity]

Despite a court order, the Justice Department is holding back Special Counsel Mueller memos regarding the interviews conducted with the President’s son-in-law and senior adviser Jared Kushner.
CNN and Buzzfeed won access to thousands of pages of Mueller’s witness memos.

[Peter Brown]

Orange man bad though

Trump's charity is shut down because of corruption. And your reaction is that we must be insane to criticize this. Who the F do you know that had their charity shut down for corruption?

As if this is just no big deal, and just another day in the city. "Oh, I know a guy who had FIVE charities that we shut down for fraud. So really, Trump's fraud is just no bid deal". Where do you come up with this stuff?

I LOVE that you pretend to hate government. And yet somehow, magically, the head of the US Federal Government can do no wrong in your eyes.

That's quite the little world you've concocted for yourself. Nicely done.

I’m fairly sure I said Trumps foundation was “illegal”. You can go back and verify that claim. I also said if we are comparing apples, his fraud doesn’t come within a couple universes of Clinton’s. Clinton simply was smarter with better lawyers. Trump is a small town hustler. The Clinton’s are the OG’s.

But hey, orange man bad and all that. Two million versus two billion.

What was the fraud at the Clinton Foundation? Bigger dollars bigger fraud. How bad was it? Post the link whenever you can.

If a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it, did it ever really fall? What the Clintons did is perfectly ‘legal’. Totally unethical and warped, but that’s life. The Foundation charters their private jets to prepaid vacations and never reach into their own pockets. Saudi Arabia (a huge Foundation benefactor) pays for the G5’s and Round Hill, and Bill and Hilary remain just out of the reach of the law. The tree fell but you didn’t hear it. Of course you love this setup. Trump wasn’t smart enough, or maybe he was too egotistical, to squeeze the juice like Bill and Hillary.

I don’t lose sleep over their schemes; I’m just glad enough people saw her for what she is and punished her at the ballot box, as it always should happen.

$2 million versus $2 BILLION. Lol. But orange man is bad. You guys kill me.

I am more concerned with Russian and Saudi financial ties to the POTUS. Why aren't you?

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2020/01/10/ ... -attorney/

Your post sounds purely xenophobic. Is it an accepted fact that all money from Russia and Saudi is tainted? If so, please have a word with The Carlyle Group in DC; they’re coffers are full of both sources. Also, speak with the Clinton Foundation; they too seem compromised.

But I know what you’re saying. You’re saying the “governments” of Russia and Saudi are bribing Trump. Ok, let’s go with that. To what end? What if Russia bribed Trump? What do they get out of bribing Trump? That he’ll be nicer to them at the UN? Big frogging deal if so. Tell me, to what end does Russia or Saudi governments need Trump?

[ToastDunk]

Orange man bad though

Trump's charity is shut down because of corruption. And your reaction is that we must be insane to criticize this. Who the F do you know that had their charity shut down for corruption?

As if this is just no big deal, and just another day in the city. "Oh, I know a guy who had FIVE charities that we shut down for fraud. So really, Trump's fraud is just no bid deal". Where do you come up with this stuff?

I LOVE that you pretend to hate government. And yet somehow, magically, the head of the US Federal Government can do no wrong in your eyes.

That's quite the little world you've concocted for yourself. Nicely done.

I’m fairly sure I said Trumps foundation was “illegal”. You can go back and verify that claim. I also said if we are comparing apples, his fraud doesn’t come within a couple universes of Clinton’s. Clinton simply was smarter with better lawyers. Trump is a small town hustler. The Clinton’s are the OG’s.

But hey, orange man bad and all that. Two million versus two billion.

What was the fraud at the Clinton Foundation? Bigger dollars bigger fraud. How bad was it? Post the link whenever you can.

If a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it, did it ever really fall? What the Clintons did is perfectly ‘legal’. Totally unethical and warped, but that’s life. They get to charter private jets to prepaid vacations and never reach into their own pockets. Saudi Arabia pays for the G5’s and Round Hill, and Bill and Hilary remain just out of the reach of the law. The tree fell but you didn’t hear it. Of course you love this setup. Trump wasn’t smart enough, or maybe he was too egotistical, to squeeze the juice like Bill and Hillary.

I don’t lose sleep over their schemes; I’m just glad enough people saw her for what she is and punished her at the ballot box, as it always should happen.

Just to be clear here Peter, and not to make too big a point, the "system" punished her. At the ballot box, 3 million MORE people voted for Clinton than voted for Trump. Not disputing the outcome of the election given the Presidency is not determined by the popular vote. But it's disingenuous to suggest Trump won with the backing of the American people.

[Peter Brown]

Orange man bad though

Trump's charity is shut down because of corruption. And your reaction is that we must be insane to criticize this. Who the F do you know that had their charity shut down for corruption?

As if this is just no big deal, and just another day in the city. "Oh, I know a guy who had FIVE charities that we shut down for fraud. So really, Trump's fraud is just no bid deal". Where do you come up with this stuff?

I LOVE that you pretend to hate government. And yet somehow, magically, the head of the US Federal Government can do no wrong in your eyes.

That's quite the little world you've concocted for yourself. Nicely done.

I’m fairly sure I said Trumps foundation was “illegal”. You can go back and verify that claim. I also said if we are comparing apples, his fraud doesn’t come within a couple universes of Clinton’s. Clinton simply was smarter with better lawyers. Trump is a small town hustler. The Clinton’s are the OG’s.

But hey, orange man bad and all that. Two million versus two billion.

What was the fraud at the Clinton Foundation? Bigger dollars bigger fraud. How bad was it? Post the link whenever you can.

If a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it, did it ever really fall? What the Clintons did is perfectly ‘legal’. Totally unethical and warped, but that’s life. They get to charter private jets to prepaid vacations and never reach into their own pockets. Saudi Arabia pays for the G5’s and Round Hill, and Bill and Hilary remain just out of the reach of the law. The tree fell but you didn’t hear it. Of course you love this setup. Trump wasn’t smart enough, or maybe he was too egotistical, to squeeze the juice like Bill and Hillary.

I don’t lose sleep over their schemes; I’m just glad enough people saw her for what she is and punished her at the ballot box, as it always should happen.

PB, I too think the Clintons have walked the edge of legality, and IMO crossed the line ethically, but I think you drink too much from the right wing media propaganda machine. Most of what you say is not accurate nor complete. And what you ignore is that the Clinton Foundation actually did/does enormous good with its funds. The vast majority of that Foundation is actually used to make a difference in the world, for others. That matters when we think about the good/bad of this comparison.

Please don't misunderstand, I can make an argument about the Clintons and their egos, the benefits to them personally of being seen publicly doing good, the enjoyment of flying around the world and being received as muckety-mucks, wined and dined, treated to all sorts of perks...

But the Trump Foundation was clearly a criminal enterprise, not actually designed to benefit others, but rather solely to line their own pockets while pretending to do something for others.

If we compare the Clintons and Trumps, I think we can say that the Clintons are not 'ethical' in all cases, or at least are subject to ego and hubris, however they do understand and fundamentally respect that there are laws that restrict or compel behavior. They follow the law, best we can actually know for sure.

By contrast, the Trumps clearly have no respect for the law, they are full on criminals. The law is merely an impediment to their objectives, a threat they need to manage or avoid.

Big difference.

I know that's inconvenient if you prefer Trump to continue to be in office for some reason, but that's the way it is.

I’m pretty familiar with their foundation Jet charter activity... just saying.

[foreverlax]

Orange man bad though

Trump's charity is shut down because of corruption. And your reaction is that we must be insane to criticize this. Who the F do you know that had their charity shut down for corruption?

As if this is just no big deal, and just another day in the city. "Oh, I know a guy who had FIVE charities that we shut down for fraud. So really, Trump's fraud is just no bid deal". Where do you come up with this stuff?

I LOVE that you pretend to hate government. And yet somehow, magically, the head of the US Federal Government can do no wrong in your eyes.

That's quite the little world you've concocted for yourself. Nicely done.

I’m fairly sure I said Trumps foundation was “illegal”. You can go back and verify that claim. I also said if we are comparing apples, his fraud doesn’t come within a couple universes of Clinton’s. Clinton simply was smarter with better lawyers. Trump is a small town hustler. The Clinton’s are the OG’s.

But hey, orange man bad and all that. Two million versus two billion.

What was the fraud at the Clinton Foundation? Bigger dollars bigger fraud. How bad was it? Post the link whenever you can.

If a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it, did it ever really fall? What the Clintons did is perfectly ‘legal’. Totally unethical and warped, but that’s life. They get to charter private jets to prepaid vacations and never reach into their own pockets. Saudi Arabia pays for the G5’s and Round Hill, and Bill and Hilary remain just out of the reach of the law. The tree fell but you didn’t hear it. Of course you love this setup. Trump wasn’t smart enough, or maybe he was too egotistical, to squeeze the juice like Bill and Hillary.

I don’t lose sleep over their schemes; I’m just glad enough people saw her for what she is and punished her at the ballot box, as it always should happen.

Clnton's lawyers are better then Trump's...that is the most ridiculous thing you have posted here.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Orange man bad though

Trump's charity is shut down because of corruption. And your reaction is that we must be insane to criticize this. Who the F do you know that had their charity shut down for corruption?

As if this is just no big deal, and just another day in the city. "Oh, I know a guy who had FIVE charities that we shut down for fraud. So really, Trump's fraud is just no bid deal". Where do you come up with this stuff?

I LOVE that you pretend to hate government. And yet somehow, magically, the head of the US Federal Government can do no wrong in your eyes.

That's quite the little world you've concocted for yourself. Nicely done.

I’m fairly sure I said Trumps foundation was “illegal”. You can go back and verify that claim. I also said if we are comparing apples, his fraud doesn’t come within a couple universes of Clinton’s. Clinton simply was smarter with better lawyers. Trump is a small town hustler. The Clinton’s are the OG’s.

But hey, orange man bad and all that. Two million versus two billion.

What was the fraud at the Clinton Foundation? Bigger dollars bigger fraud. How bad was it? Post the link whenever you can.

If a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it, did it ever really fall? What the Clintons did is perfectly ‘legal’. Totally unethical and warped, but that’s life. The Foundation charters their private jets to prepaid vacations and never reach into their own pockets. Saudi Arabia (a huge Foundation benefactor) pays for the G5’s and Round Hill, and Bill and Hilary remain just out of the reach of the law. The tree fell but you didn’t hear it. Of course you love this setup. Trump wasn’t smart enough, or maybe he was too egotistical, to squeeze the juice like Bill and Hillary.

I don’t lose sleep over their schemes; I’m just glad enough people saw her for what she is and punished her at the ballot box, as it always should happen.

$2 million versus $2 BILLION. Lol. But orange man is bad. You guys kill me.

I am more concerned with Russian and Saudi financial ties to the POTUS. Why aren't you?

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2020/01/10/ ... -attorney/

Your post sounds purely xenophobic. Is it an accepted fact that all money from Russia and Saudi is tainted? If so, please have a word with The Carlyle Group in DC; they’re coffers are full of both sources. Also, speak with the Clinton Foundation; they too seem compromised.

But I know what you’re saying. You’re saying the “governments” of Russia and Saudi are bribing Trump. Ok, let’s go with that. To what end? What if Russia bribed Trump? What do they get out of bribing Trump? That he’ll be nicer to them at the UN? Big frogging deal if so. Tell me, to what end does Russia or Saudi governments need Trump?

Carlyle Group is an excellent firm. You comparing the Carlyle Group to what is basically the Trump Family Office and his fraudulent foundation? Why aren't you concerned with the POTUS 's ties to Russian and Saudi money?