Progressive Ideology

[kramerica.inc]

https://www.bloombergquint.com/onweb/cr ... -medicated. Is this not the American FLP blueprint for America as they understand it? Keep the American population depressed and medicated.

Another content-free post.

Pot, meet Kettle.

[Typical Lax Dad]

The story of uncontrolled socialism always ends tragically.

Well this is a flat-out lie.

1. There are no countries with "uncontrolled socialism"
2. There are lots of countries with socialist policies doing very well, and better than us in many categories.

I'd say there are many examples where socialist economies went belly up, but not before crushing the civil liberties of their citizens first.

That all said, if your example of 'good socialism' is found in Scandinavia, look how small and homogeneous the countries are; Sweden is barely more populated than the Chicago metropolitan area, and 83.2% of the population of Norway is ethnically Norwegian while 71.5% of them are members of the Church of Norway. The community-minded culture of Scandinavians helps community minded initiatives.

But that doesn't account for the major difference between what you think is socialism and the reason it is not: in Scandinavian countries, the lion's share of the economy is still controlled by private investors. AOC is completely against a market economy (her words). Which is also why Bernie needed to be corrected: https://www.thelocal.dk/20151101/danish ... -socialist

Stephen Miller would agree that the USA needs to be more homogenous.

[holmes435]

I'd say there are many examples where socialist economies went belly up, but not before crushing the civil liberties of their citizens first.

That all said, if your example of 'good socialism' is found in Scandinavia, look how small and homogeneous the countries are; Sweden is barely more populated than the Chicago metropolitan area, and 83.2% of the population of Norway is ethnically Norwegian while 71.5% of them are members of the Church of Norway. The community-minded culture of Scandinavians helps community minded initiatives.

But that doesn't account for the major difference between what you think is socialism and the reason it is not: in Scandinavian countries, the lion's share of the economy is still controlled by private investors. AOC is completely against a market economy (her words). Which is also why Bernie needed to be corrected: https://www.thelocal.dk/20151101/danish ... -socialist

Well then please give those examples and the actual socialist principles part that made them go belly-up, not mismanagement, totalitarian regimes, over-reliance on a single sector, etc. Then please compare them to the number of fascist and right-wing governments that crushed their own citizens civil liberties, I'd like to see the data. Stating that "uncontrolled socialism always ends tragically" is still a lie no matter how you change the topic.

What does small have to do with it? I see that argument a lot and it doesn't hold water - for instance when did economies of scale go out the window?

As far as what you think I think socialism is (which you're wrong about), did you know the lion's share of the Venezuelan economy was privately owned under Chavez? 70% privately owned!

I didn't call Scandinavia countries socialist countries. What they do have, are a number of socialist policies that are working really well. They dwarf out the small handful of ones you would trot out as having gone belly-up (which weren't due to the socialism).

Why reinvent the wheel, why not implement policies that have a proven track record? You're keeping America stagnant while the world passes us by.

[seacoaster]

https://www.bloombergquint.com/onweb/cr ... -medicated. Is this not the American FLP blueprint for America as they understand it? Keep the American population depressed and medicated.

Another content-free post.

Pot, meet Kettle.

Another content-free post.

[a fan]

I'd say there are many examples where socialist economies went belly up, but not before crushing the civil liberties of their citizens first.

Name five.

Best of luck there....

[Peter Brown]

I'd say there are many examples where socialist economies went belly up, but not before crushing the civil liberties of their citizens first.

Name five.

Best of luck there....

I'll take a stab (though you will say they weren't socialist):

Cuba
Venezuela
Israel, India, and the United Kingdom all adopted socialism as an economic model following World War II.

The strains of Marxism-Leninism of the Soviet Union, the National Socialism of Nazi Germany, the Maoism of Communist China, the Chavez-Maduro socialism of Venezuela are all abject economic and social failures, resulting in horrific human rights abuses.

[seacoaster]

The Israeli economy is hardly "socialist." It is a parliamentary democracy, featuring numerous political parties, requiring coalition governments made up of many different groups. It is one of the most innovative, technology driven economies in the world. The Heritage Foundation gives it high marks in most categories. Not sure it is a good example -- if that's what you were saying -- of the soul-crushing socialism with which you seem to lump it.

https://www.heritage.org/index/country/israel

[a fan]

I'll take a stab (though you will say they weren't socialist):

Cuba
Venezuela
Israel, India, and the United Kingdom all adopted socialism as an economic model following World War II.

The strains of Marxism-Leninism of the Soviet Union, the National Socialism of Nazi Germany, the Maoism of Communist China, the Chavez-Maduro socialism of Venezuela are all abject economic and social failures, resulting in horrific human rights abuses.

Those are fascist/dictatorship/kleptocratic countries.

Know how you can tell when a country is a fascist/dictatorship? They have one tyrannical leader or party in charge of it all. Stalin. Hitler. Mao.

Not surprisingly, there's an entire wikipedia entry discussing how the Soviet economy was NOT socialism, but rather a corrupt system that made the elite fat and rich while the rest of the country starved.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist ... _socialism

Care to try again?

Notice China has plenty of privately owned companies?

The FoxNation idea that socialism is bad and fails is a laughable, entirely phony position. "Keep the government hands off my Medicare" comes to mind.

How did those socialist lacrosse players from the government owned and operated University of Virginia's lacrosse team manage to beat all of those privately run Division I opponents to win it all last year?

[cradleandshoot]

https://www.bloombergquint.com/onweb/cr ... -medicated. Is this not the American FLP blueprint for America as they understand it? Keep the American population depressed and medicated.

Another content-free post.

Your so mean...

[Typical Lax Dad]

I'll take a stab (though you will say they weren't socialist):

Cuba
Venezuela
Israel, India, and the United Kingdom all adopted socialism as an economic model following World War II.

The strains of Marxism-Leninism of the Soviet Union, the National Socialism of Nazi Germany, the Maoism of Communist China, the Chavez-Maduro socialism of Venezuela are all abject economic and social failures, resulting in horrific human rights abuses.

Those are fascist/dictatorship/kleptocratic countries.

Know how you can tell when a country is a fascist/dictatorship? They have one tyrannical leader or party in charge of it all. Stalin. Hitler. Mao.

Not surprisingly, there's an entire wikipedia entry discussing how the Soviet economy was NOT socialism, but rather a corrupt system that made the elite fat and rich while the rest of the country starved.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist ... _socialism

Care to try again?

Notice China has plenty of privately owned companies?

The FoxNation idea that socialism is bad and fails is a laughable, entirely phony position. "Keep the government hands off my Medicare" comes to mind.

How did those socialist lacrosse players from the government owned and operated University of Virginia's lacrosse team manage to beat all of those privately run Division I opponents to win it all last year?

Relying on ignorance and that the general population believes that the word socialism = Cuba. Hoping people think about it no deeper than that. That is how a media campaign works. It is not an accident. This is how opinion is shaped.

[a fan]

Relying on ignorance and that the general population believes that the word socialism = Cuba. Hoping people think about it no deeper than that. That is how a media campaign works. It is not an accident. This is how opinion is shaped.

Or making fun of government run health care while you're sitting in the lobby of one of the University of Maryland's hospitals....

"That' doesn't count as socialism because I sez so"

[Typical Lax Dad]

Relying on ignorance and that the general population believes that the word socialism = Cuba. Hoping people think about it no deeper than that. That is how a media campaign works. It is not an accident. This is how opinion is shaped.

Or making fun of government run health care while you're sitting in the lobby of one of the University of Maryland's hospitals....

"That' doesn't count as socialism because I sez so"

I am shocked at the number of people that talk about socialism as if we are headed to Cuba. Americans have tuned into twitter and checked their brains out.

[youthathletics]

Relying on ignorance and that the general population believes that the word socialism = Cuba. Hoping people think about it no deeper than that. That is how a media campaign works. It is not an accident. This is how opinion is shaped.

Or making fun of government run health care while you're sitting in the lobby of one of the University of Maryland's hospitals....

"That' doesn't count as socialism because I sez so"

I am shocked at the number of people that talk about socialism as if we are headed to Cuba. Americans have tuned into twitter and checked their brains out.

IMO, it is not the Cuba issue, its the inherent logical argument of our debt/deficit spending, constant gov't continuing resolutions, social security running out......and then hearing about free health care, free college, and whatever else is marketed as now free. Kinda like that feeling when you are on the edge of building and get those butterflies in your legs and stomach....you just know you need to back away.

[Peter Brown]

I'll take a stab (though you will say they weren't socialist):

Cuba
Venezuela
Israel, India, and the United Kingdom all adopted socialism as an economic model following World War II.

The strains of Marxism-Leninism of the Soviet Union, the National Socialism of Nazi Germany, the Maoism of Communist China, the Chavez-Maduro socialism of Venezuela are all abject economic and social failures, resulting in horrific human rights abuses.

Those are fascist/dictatorship/kleptocratic countries.

Know how you can tell when a country is a fascist/dictatorship? They have one tyrannical leader or party in charge of it all. Stalin. Hitler. Mao.

Not surprisingly, there's an entire wikipedia entry discussing how the Soviet economy was NOT socialism, but rather a corrupt system that made the elite fat and rich while the rest of the country starved.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist ... _socialism

Care to try again?

Notice China has plenty of privately owned companies?

The FoxNation idea that socialism is bad and fails is a laughable, entirely phony position. "Keep the government hands off my Medicare" comes to mind.

How did those socialist lacrosse players from the government owned and operated University of Virginia's lacrosse team manage to beat all of those privately run Division I opponents to win it all last year?

Riiiiiiiiiight.

I knew that would be your reply.

So let me get this straight. According to a fan, none of the countries in history that loudly claimed they were socialist (and failed, and crushed their citizens liberties and so on...) were in fact socialist; they were something else entirely! Fascists!

Instead, today's United States is the very definition of socialism!! In fact, compared to that failed capitalist enterprise the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, we are the socialist ones! Never has there been a more socialist country in fact than the United States...what with our free (or sorta free, but you get the picture) public universities and free state-owned hospitals.

And to make it even more paradisey (with Bernie as head cheese), we need even more socialism; to heck with those rigid constitutionalist judges Trump keeps appointing! We should be able to scale new summits of civil liberties and economic bliss; all that is needed is more government control! Government always works! Have you ever had even one bad customer service experience at the DMV! Let's have more of that!

Do I have all that correct? I am merely recasting your sentiments into basic English.

(I need to find out why I pay all these fees and taxes...I mean, I live in a socialist country, I want mY FREE SOCIALIST bennies, boy!)

[Typical Lax Dad]

Relying on ignorance and that the general population believes that the word socialism = Cuba. Hoping people think about it no deeper than that. That is how a media campaign works. It is not an accident. This is how opinion is shaped.

Or making fun of government run health care while you're sitting in the lobby of one of the University of Maryland's hospitals....

"That' doesn't count as socialism because I sez so"

I am shocked at the number of people that talk about socialism as if we are headed to Cuba. Americans have tuned into twitter and checked their brains out.

IMO, it is not the Cuba issue, its the inherent logical argument of our debt/deficit spending, constant gov't continuing resolutions, social security running out......and then hearing about free health care, free college, and whatever else is marketed as now free. Kinda like that feeling when you are on the edge of building and get those butterflies in your legs and stomach....you just know you need to back away.

Yeah. Cut the military budget 2%-3% and college cost would be heavily subsidized.

[MDlaxfan76]

I'll take a stab (though you will say they weren't socialist):

Cuba
Venezuela
Israel, India, and the United Kingdom all adopted socialism as an economic model following World War II.

The strains of Marxism-Leninism of the Soviet Union, the National Socialism of Nazi Germany, the Maoism of Communist China, the Chavez-Maduro socialism of Venezuela are all abject economic and social failures, resulting in horrific human rights abuses.

Those are fascist/dictatorship/kleptocratic countries.

Know how you can tell when a country is a fascist/dictatorship? They have one tyrannical leader or party in charge of it all. Stalin. Hitler. Mao.

Not surprisingly, there's an entire wikipedia entry discussing how the Soviet economy was NOT socialism, but rather a corrupt system that made the elite fat and rich while the rest of the country starved.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist ... _socialism

Care to try again?

Notice China has plenty of privately owned companies?

The FoxNation idea that socialism is bad and fails is a laughable, entirely phony position. "Keep the government hands off my Medicare" comes to mind.

How did those socialist lacrosse players from the government owned and operated University of Virginia's lacrosse team manage to beat all of those privately run Division I opponents to win it all last year?

Riiiiiiiiiight.

I knew that would be your reply.

So let me get this straight. According to a fan, none of the countries in history that loudly claimed they were socialist (and failed, and crushed their citizens liberties and so on...) were in fact socialist; they were something else entirely! Fascists!

Instead, today's United States is the very definition of socialism!! In fact, compared to that failed capitalist enterprise the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, we are the socialist ones! Never has there been a more socialist country in fact than the United States...what with our free (or sorta free, but you get the picture) public universities and free state-owned hospitals.

And to make it even more paradisey (with Bernie as head cheese), we need even more socialism; to heck with those rigid constitutionalist judges Trump keeps appointing! We should be able to scale new summits of civil liberties and economic bliss; all that is needed is more government control! Government always works! Have you ever had even one bad customer service experience at the DMV! Let's have more of that!

Do I have all that correct? I am merely recasting your sentiments into basic English.

(I need to find out why I pay all these fees and taxes...I mean, I live in a socialist country, I want mY FREE SOCIALIST bennies, boy!)

I'm struggling with this PB. Do your really think Nazi Germany was actually "socialist" in the sense you say?
No, Fascist would be correct.
Or even The Soviet Union...kleptocracy.
Note what is bolded.

One could debate Cuba, but you're talking about dictatorships across the board.
At least for those countries which have fundamentally failed.

There's a lot of versions of authoritarian kleptocracies, with not all best described as "fascist". I can't think of a single one, regardless of ilk, that has succeeded over the long haul. But it's not because they were too "socialist". (and I'm a strong believer in regulated capitalism mixed with constitutional democracy).

The current Chinese evolution is an interesting new animal. Time will tell.

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://theintercept.com/2017/09/18/the ... lege-free/

[youthathletics]

Relying on ignorance and that the general population believes that the word socialism = Cuba. Hoping people think about it no deeper than that. That is how a media campaign works. It is not an accident. This is how opinion is shaped.

Or making fun of government run health care while you're sitting in the lobby of one of the University of Maryland's hospitals....

"That' doesn't count as socialism because I sez so"

I am shocked at the number of people that talk about socialism as if we are headed to Cuba. Americans have tuned into twitter and checked their brains out.

IMO, it is not the Cuba issue, its the inherent logical argument of our debt/deficit spending, constant gov't continuing resolutions, social security running out......and then hearing about free health care, free college, and whatever else is marketed as now free. Kinda like that feeling when you are on the edge of building and get those butterflies in your legs and stomach....you just know you need to back away.

Yeah. Cut the military budget 2%-3% and college cost would be heavily subsidized.

I’m down.

[a fan]

Riiiiiiiiiight.

I knew that would be your reply.

So let me get this straight. According to a fan, none of the countries in history that loudly claimed they were socialist (and failed, and crushed their citizens liberties and so on...) were in fact socialist; they were something else entirely! Fascists!

Boy, that's a reaaaaaaly tough one.

Maybe my fellow posters could help me out. Hey guys! Can anyone think of a reason why Hitler and Stalin would lie about what kind of government they are leading? Why would two dictators who slaughtered millions of people, and in particular, any who might challenge their power....and lie about not being a fascist dictatorship...and instead, portray themselves as huggy-bear, Socialist leaders who warmly take care of their people.

Boy. That's a difficult question there, Pete. I guess we'll never know, am-i-right?

Instead, today's United States is the very definition of socialism!! In fact, compared to that failed capitalist enterprise the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, we are the socialist ones! Never has there been a more socialist country in fact than the United States...what with our free (or sorta free, but you get the picture) public universities and free state-owned hospitals.

Facepalm.

I'm trying to figure out what it is you think socialism is. You keep using the word "free" in association with socialism. Do you think all those countries you named don't have currency or something? You just show up at the bakery, and they hand you bread?

Socialism, for the last time, is when the government owns the means of production or service. Get it? So yes, the University of Florida's Hospital system is an example of socialism. The doctors there are government doctors. Paid by the government. Managed by the government.

You, laughably, are telling me that you think this is bad. I have great news for you! You and your fellow anti-socialism buddies can tell your State reps that you want to privatize those Florida State Hospitals and Florida Universities. I'm not in your way. Not even a little. Knock yourself out.

And to make it even more paradisey (with Bernie as head cheese), we need even more socialism;

This ought to be a fantastic answer.

What is it that you think Bernie is proposing that is "More socialism"? Does Bernie want the .gov to start making PC's or Airplanes in factories?

Enlighten me.

to heck with those rigid constitutionalist judges Trump keeps appointing!

You think these judges are "rigid Constitutionalists'? Yeah, ok. Good luck with that. I'm SURE these right wing judges are going to look out for the little guy, and not favor corporations every time they get a chance.

We should be able to scale new summits of civil liberties and economic bliss; all that is needed is more government control! Government always works! Have you ever had even one bad customer service experience at the DMV! Let's have more of that!

What it is with you fake libertarian geniuses and the DMV? First of all, the service I get at the Colorado DMV is just fine.

Second of all, if you think it's bad? Here's what you do. Raise taxes to pay for top notch management and service. Do you want to have a DMV on every block that just sits around and serves just 1,000 drivers? You can have that. But the thing is: you have to pay for it. What you and your fellow whiners want to do is, pay a little, and get perfect service. You get what you pay for, just as you do in the private sector. Shocking, I know.

(I need to find out why I pay all these fees and taxes...I mean, I live in a socialist country, I want mY FREE SOCIALIST bennies, boy!)

I can tell you why I personally pay all these taxes. So guys like you can go to a cheap State run school and get an education. The education that got you your current job and salary.

Now what you're telling me is: now you don't want that Degree. The part you don't seem to be getting is, I would be OVERJOYED to cut all socialism in that cr*ppy State of yours. Because if you did that, you'd stop taking money from me to pay for your way of life.

Where do I sign? What President can I vote for to abolish all State run Universities and Hospitals? Liquidate all State and City owned Airports. and make your company pay market rates for all your landing and security needs.

My taxes would fall off a cliff. So tell me: who do I vote for to get this done?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Relying on ignorance and that the general population believes that the word socialism = Cuba. Hoping people think about it no deeper than that. That is how a media campaign works. It is not an accident. This is how opinion is shaped.

Or making fun of government run health care while you're sitting in the lobby of one of the University of Maryland's hospitals....

"That' doesn't count as socialism because I sez so"

I am shocked at the number of people that talk about socialism as if we are headed to Cuba. Americans have tuned into twitter and checked their brains out.

IMO, it is not the Cuba issue, its the inherent logical argument of our debt/deficit spending, constant gov't continuing resolutions, social security running out......and then hearing about free health care, free college, and whatever else is marketed as now free. Kinda like that feeling when you are on the edge of building and get those butterflies in your legs and stomach....you just know you need to back away.

Yeah. Cut the military budget 2%-3% and college cost would be heavily subsidized.

I’m down.

I am not a fan of Bernie Sanders or free college. There are plenty of affordable colleges. I paid. But the notion that we don't have the money is false. Its a matter of priority. I started saving when my kids were born. Because of that, we chose what we felt to be the best option for our kids without the pressure of money. I am not sympathetic.