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Recruiting, the exact science
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 10:21 am
by livelovelax
For the last 6-7 years that I have followed the recruiting experts and their rankings, schools like Duke, UVA, UNC, ND, Penn, Princeton, etc. get mostly 4 and 5 star recruits. A school like Rutgers, never gets these can't miss players. Never. How is it that they are in the mix with kids that don't get ranked especially the last two years? And please don't say transfer portal, cause many of these players were not 4 or 5 stars either. High level players like Ross Scott, Shane Knobloch and Ethan Rall were under recruited kids.
Being a recruiting guru is like being a weather forecaster.
Re: Recruiting, the exact science
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 10:26 am
by laxerr20
while i agree with you saying some guys are "under recruited" based on where they are from like the "non hot bed" guys, but kids when they get to college get older, better, and stronger due to playing and lifting 5 days a week. Some guys need to get into a college weight room and access to the best lacrosse coaches in the world and they just simply get better in college.
Re: Recruiting, the exact science
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 10:32 am
by HopFan16
livelovelax wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 10:21 am
A school like Rutgers, never gets these can't miss players. Never. How is it that they are in the mix with kids that don't get ranked especially the last two years? And please don't say transfer portal
Why not? Before 2021 Rutgers hadn't won a playoff game in three decades and had never made a Final Four. Then they make huge additions through the portal and all of a sudden they're in the mix. You think those things aren't related?
Re: Recruiting, the exact science
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 10:46 am
by lorin
HopFan16 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 10:32 am
livelovelax wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 10:21 am
A school like Rutgers, never gets these can't miss players. Never. How is it that they are in the mix with kids that don't get ranked especially the last two years? And please don't say transfer portal
Why not? Before 2021 Rutgers hadn't won a playoff game in three decades and had never made a Final Four. Then they make huge additions through the portal and all of a sudden they're in the mix. You think those things aren't related?
Bingo, back to 2019 for Rutgers.
Re: Recruiting, the exact science
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 10:51 am
by OSVAlacrosse
The most frequently asked question to Inside Lacrosse is, “How do I get evaluated?”
$199: Single Video Evaluation
$299: Two-Pack Video Evaluations (6-month interval)
$375: Three-Pack Video Evaluations (4-month interval)
It is an exact science.
Re: Recruiting, the exact science
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 11:58 am
by livelovelax
The only thing I get from that is, the more you pay, the better the chance of getting ranked. The inexact science is really what it is and that goes for all sports. If coaches can "nail it" 50% of the time, they have a shot of being successful.
Re: Recruiting, the exact science
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 12:18 pm
by OSVAlacrosse
OSVAlacrosse wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 10:51 am
The most frequently asked question to Inside Lacrosse is, “How do I get evaluated?”
$199: Single Video Evaluation
$299: Two-Pack Video Evaluations (6-month interval)
$375: Three-Pack Video Evaluations (4-month interval)
This is from the IL website. It is an exact science.
Re: Recruiting, the exact science
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 12:25 pm
by EasyRider
Coaches take those Inside Lacrosse rankings with a healthy grain of salt
Re: Recruiting, the exact science
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 1:16 pm
by 1766
College football programs spend millions on this and often get it wrong. IL has two guys who I am not sure ever played trying to evaluate a nations worth of kids. It's simply not possible for them to do so.
For Rutgers, I think it comes down to a few things.
1) It's a developmental program. It's hard to think of any kids, certainly not those who played, who didn't get significantly better from the time they got on campus to when they left. Charalambides, Heningburg, Mazzone, Scott, Rexrode, Scarpello, to name a few. The list is long. Kids simply get better every year. Coach Brecht has a saying- not just a year old. A year better. The guys in the program embrace that.
2) Different styles of play determine the types of guys you recruit. Coach Brecht and the staff have a very good eye for what they want. Sometimes they go after those can't miss kids, which really there are only a couple a year, maybe. Often it's not those guys. It's the one's who play multiple sports and are athletes. Maybe they started focusing on lacrosse late, which is perfectly fine. You can teach kids the game of lacrosse if they have the size/speed to play at a high level. System kids need not apply.
3) Culture. Guys there want to compete. Having seen a few D1 practices over the last year, there isn't a team that goes at it harder than Rutgers. I think that lends itself to number 1 and how it's all about developing and getting better. It's all done in practice there which is why you won't see much of them in the fall.
Rutgers is a great example but there are other schools exceeding their recruiting rankings. Conversely, there are some that don't live up to them. At the end of the day, recruiting rankings are fun to talk about, but they aren't worth much.
Re: Recruiting, the exact science
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 1:24 pm
by 1766
lorin wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 10:46 am
HopFan16 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 10:32 am
livelovelax wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 10:21 am
A school like Rutgers, never gets these can't miss players. Never. How is it that they are in the mix with kids that don't get ranked especially the last two years? And please don't say transfer portal
Why not? Before 2021 Rutgers hadn't won a playoff game in three decades and had never made a Final Four. Then they make huge additions through the portal and all of a sudden they're in the mix. You think those things aren't related?
Bingo, back to 2019 for Rutgers.
"2022 Rutgers will be lucky to be .500". -Lorin's last prediction. Nostradamus he is not. Great hater though!
Re: Recruiting, the exact science
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 1:34 pm
by kramerica.inc
1766 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 1:24 pm
lorin wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 10:46 am
HopFan16 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 10:32 am
livelovelax wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 10:21 am
A school like Rutgers, never gets these can't miss players. Never. How is it that they are in the mix with kids that don't get ranked especially the last two years? And please don't say transfer portal
Why not? Before 2021 Rutgers hadn't won a playoff game in three decades and had never made a Final Four. Then they make huge additions through the portal and all of a sudden they're in the mix. You think those things aren't related?
Bingo, back to 2019 for Rutgers.
"2022 Rutgers will be lucky to be .500". -Lorin's last prediction. Nostradamus he is not. Great hater though!
A hater on any team that has had Army's number.
Gotta admire his dedication though.
Re: Recruiting, the exact science
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:51 pm
by youthathletics
lorin wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 10:46 am
HopFan16 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 10:32 am
livelovelax wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 10:21 am
A school like Rutgers, never gets these can't miss players. Never. How is it that they are in the mix with kids that don't get ranked especially the last two years? And please don't say transfer portal
Why not? Before 2021 Rutgers hadn't won a playoff game in three decades and had never made a Final Four. Then they make huge additions through the portal and all of a sudden they're in the mix. You think those things aren't related?
Bingo, back to 2019 for Rutgers.
I can recall back in the early/mid 2Kteens, RU fans where sick of the horrible recruiting by the staff...missing on in state and nearby NY programs.
Re: Recruiting, the exact science
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 3:01 pm
by Farfromgeneva
It is odd that this was started by a Rutgers fan holding them up as the example compared with a lot of other programs are better examples of outrecruiting the rankings. This goes back to at Laxpower when Denver & Loyola won titles a decade ago, Peter Baum hit the circuit and really back to the run Tambroni had from around 03 or so until he left for PSU at Cornell.
Re: Recruiting, the exact science
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 3:02 pm
by youthathletics
livelovelax wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 10:21 am
Being a recruiting guru is like being a weather forecaster.
I (partially) disagree, I think it boils down to laziness in the recruiting process, while playing a game of numbers filling beds, coupled with staff longevity. If I recruit Johnny X as a HS junior to UofX, then I to UofY a few years later, a staff inherit players they did not recruit and try to shoehorn them into what they may not have been recruited to do....or b/c 'they are not my guys'.
There is this cycle schools go through, out with the old, in with the new....give them 3-5 years to 'get their guys' build a system, underperform, piss off the Alum or AD, then start answer. rinse, repeat.
Re: Recruiting, the exact science
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 3:10 pm
by smoova
Until there is a limit placed on class size (which will never happen for obvious reasons) and/or a reversal of the current transfer rules, we will continue to see coaches taking increasingly massive classes with the full understanding that they're getting a handful of diamonds and at least as many well-heeled, over-aged, underachievers.
Re: Recruiting, the exact science
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 3:57 pm
by HooDat
EasyRider wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 12:25 pm
Coaches take those Inside Lacrosse rankings with a healthy grain of salt
The IL rankings are based on which schools are recruiting the kid not the other way around....
Re: Recruiting, the exact science
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 4:06 pm
by wgdsr
Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 3:01 pm
It is odd that this was started by a Rutgers fan holding them up as the example compared with a lot of other programs are better examples of outrecruiting the rankings. This goes back to at Laxpower when Denver & Loyola won titles a decade ago, Peter Baum hit the circuit and really back to the run Tambroni had from around 03 or so until he left for PSU at Cornell.
and obviously, as said on another thread, the b1g money got them to the final four. that, and i guess grass roots recruiting, culture and dedication. not transfers.
Re: Recruiting, the exact science
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 4:28 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
HooDat wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 3:57 pm
EasyRider wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 12:25 pm
Coaches take those Inside Lacrosse rankings with a healthy grain of salt
The IL rankings are based on which schools are recruiting the kid not the other way around....
Yep.
Re: Recruiting, the exact science
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 4:39 pm
by wgdsr
HooDat wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 3:57 pm
EasyRider wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 12:25 pm
Coaches take those Inside Lacrosse rankings with a healthy grain of salt
The IL rankings are based on which schools are recruiting the kid not the other way around....
are we talking pre-2021? rankings may have shifted after 2020 based on where they got picked up. did that happen?
obviously, it hasn't yet for 2024.
Re: Recruiting, the exact science
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 4:51 pm
by OCanada
The NFL spends tens of millions on evaluating players uses State of the Art technology and techniques. The results are more like mediocre to middling for the investment. Expecting better from lacrosse is a reach.