Any reader, whether contributing poster or not, can (IMO should) be offended by this trope.old salt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:54 amWho did I offend, other than you ?MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:50 amAgain, the trope exists.old salt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:45 amFTR -- I did mention Kirkpatrick (& Bill Bennet) as token gentiles, Moynihan objected to being called a neoconservative.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:36 amIt will include those names...and others.old salt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:32 amHow far do you want to take this ? Add McCain, the Bushes, Cheney's, Wolofowitz, Pearle, Libby... you could fill a stadium.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:18 amLeaving out Bremer...and will..Kirkpatrick...even Moynihan, all of whom were described as neoconservatives.old salt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:16 amFTR -- again. I was pointing out the self-proclaimed founders of the Neo-Conservative movement, not the entire body of people who have come to share many of their principles. There are many more prominent Americans, who happen to be Jewish, who advocate neocon positions. To do a roll call is silly.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:06 am Instead he doubled down and added more Jewish folks to his list, conveniently leaving out Paul Bremer who was at the core of the neocon movement as well. There were lots of people who have no Jewish heritage who were part of that ideological, intellectual 'group'.
With the dinner parties controlling the course of history...
trope.
If not intended, incredibly easy to say, 'oops, my mistake, not intended, sorry for any offense'...and go back to critiquing the policy positions.
Again -- I was referring to the founders & how they themselves described the genisis of their movement.
There's nothing dark or sinister there. It's not a trope. It's a key part of our modern political history.
Read any scholarship about the birth of the Neo Conservative movement & it will align with my description & include the names of the founders who I referenced.
Importantly, others...the trope was the 'dinner parties controlling the course of history'
The movement started way before this group you mention became prominent.
Again, it'd have been super easy to say, 'oops, not my intent, sorry for any offense, I'll try to avoid it in the future"...and go pack to your critique.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism
The Kristol, Podhoretz, & Kagan dinner parties in NYC were legendary, not unlike Kay Graham's, Ben Bradley's & Sally Quinn's in DC.
It's not a trope to acknowledge the part they have played in our political history.
It's well-known.
If you stumbled into it, unintentionally, as you have repeatedly said now, it should have been easy to simply say, 'oops, I recognize the trope, not my intent, sorry to give offense, I'll try not to offend again'...and then explain what you really meant, including not simply "dinner parties" but "dinner parties and "controlling the course of history"...
Trope re Jews and their control.
Aligns with trope about an international cabal of such.
Throughline with other tropes about control, and blood libel...
Whether they speak up or not.
Moreover, the repetition of the trope deeply ingrains this bigotry into our unconscious.
Now, if I thought you were just some troll trying to offend and inflame, I'd not have even bothered to point it out.
My intention was to provide you with the opportunity to unwind it, back away from it, clarify, etc...simple 'oops, etc' at least.
We can then discuss the merits of any particular argument, policy etc.