Israel and West Bank Settlements

[Brooklyn]

https://arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-wa ... DPGPVY.jpg




Imagine if that had been a liberal who made the stupid remark.

[Matnum PI]

And the quote we're discussing is nowhere to be found in the letter to the editor you posted below it. Your quote is made up, anti-Israel propaganda. Via Honest Reporting Canada: "There’s no evidence to confirm the veracity that Einstein ever made this statement that was wrongly attributed to him. As we told the Journal Pioneer, unless Mr. Deaton can substantiate with verifiable evidence/sourcing that Einstein made this statement, a retraction should be published. Additionally, Mr. Deaton’s bringing up this alleged quote is tantamount to antisemitism as according to the Ottawa Protocol and U.S. State Department, when you draw comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis, you are making an antisemitic statement."

It's a fake, Brooklyn. and horribly inappropriate. (I'm being kind with my language.)

[Brooklyn]

And the quote we're discussing is nowhere to be found in the letter to the editor you posted below it. Made up, anti-Israel propaganda. Via Honest Reporting Canada: "There’s no evidence to confirm the veracity that Einstein ever made this statement that was wrongly attributed to him. As we told the Journal Pioneer, unless Mr. Deaton can substantiate with verifiable evidence/sourcing that Einstein made this statement, a retraction should be published. Additionally, Mr. Deaton’s bringing up this alleged quote is tantamount to antisemitism as according to the Ottawa Protocol and U.S. State Department, when you draw comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis, you are making an antisemitic statement."

It's a fake, Brooklyn. and horribly inappropriate. (I'm being kind with my language.)

Cannot vouch for any personal statement but his letter was posted in the NY Times and is public domain.

More on Einstein's views:

http://thehypertexts.com/Nakba%20Holoca ... Israel.htm

[Matnum PI]

And the quote we're discussing is nowhere to be found in the letter to the editor you posted below it. Made up, anti-Israel propaganda. Via Honest Reporting Canada: "There’s no evidence to confirm the veracity that Einstein ever made this statement that was wrongly attributed to him. As we told the Journal Pioneer, unless Mr. Deaton can substantiate with verifiable evidence/sourcing that Einstein made this statement, a retraction should be published. Additionally, Mr. Deaton’s bringing up this alleged quote is tantamount to antisemitism as according to the Ottawa Protocol and U.S. State Department, when you draw comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis, you are making an antisemitic statement."

It's a fake, Brooklyn. and horribly inappropriate. (I'm being kind with my language.)

Cannot vouch for any personal statement but his letter was posted in the NY Times and is public domain.

A Letter to the Editor discussing Tnuat Haherut. Not Israel, not the Israeli government.

Brooklyn, Einstein never said the quote you're repeating. A horrible quote. A simply awful comparison. i think you have no idea how disgusting what you're posting is.

[Brooklyn]

And the quote we're discussing is nowhere to be found in the letter to the editor you posted below it. Made up, anti-Israel propaganda. Via Honest Reporting Canada: "There’s no evidence to confirm the veracity that Einstein ever made this statement that was wrongly attributed to him. As we told the Journal Pioneer, unless Mr. Deaton can substantiate with verifiable evidence/sourcing that Einstein made this statement, a retraction should be published. Additionally, Mr. Deaton’s bringing up this alleged quote is tantamount to antisemitism as according to the Ottawa Protocol and U.S. State Department, when you draw comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis, you are making an antisemitic statement."

It's a fake, Brooklyn. and horribly inappropriate. (I'm being kind with my language.)

Cannot vouch for any personal statement but his letter was posted in the NY Times and is public domain.

A Letter to the Editor discussing Tnuat Haherut. Not Israel, not the Israeli government.

Brooklyn, Einstein never said the quote you're repeating. A horrible quote. A simply awful comparison. i think you have no idea how disgusting what you're posting is.

Einstein expressed disgust as shown in the NY Times and in the quotes per my other link. While I cannot vouch for any of this as I wasn't around when they occurred, it is consistent with historically accurate accounts of his writings. Thus, not a "horrible" quote.

[Gretchen]

It's a fabricated quote. Lies are lies.

[Brooklyn]

It's a fabricated quote. Lies are lies.

The historical record clearly shows his disgust with repression of Palestinians. That truth is incontrovertible as every biographer he had acknowledged it.

[Gretchen]

So your two go to proofs are the Neturei Karta and a made-up quote. Keep up the good work.

[Brooklyn]

^ the post contains personal attacks

Very ironic, indeed.

[Gretchen]

^ the post contains personal attacks

Very ironic, indeed.

Don't kid yourself. I'm attacking your posts. Specifically your Neturei Karta posts and your defending a made-up quote that says that Einstein compared Israel, a refuge for survivors of the holocaust and future holocausts, to Nazi Germany. i don't know you. I do know your posts and your posts are as off as off comes.

[kramerica.inc]

Some people have likened Israel's repression of Palestine to the Holocaust. Some delusionals say this is anti Semitic Jew hatred even though Einstein and others have agreed with this assessment.

Brooklyn, your belief that a Jew can't be anti-Semitic is as illogical as a black can't be racist or a gay can't be homophobic or etc.

And, in the name of keeping Einstein's name clean, he was a victim of the Holocaust and was very much pro-Israel. i'd be surprised to see a quote from him where he compares Israelis to Nazis. Anything is possible but I don't see it...

Ask and ye shall receive:


https://www.21cir.com/2019/12/albert-ei ... d%E2%80%9D








TO THE EDITORS OF NEW YORK TIMES:

[letter titled] “New Palestine Party. Visit of Menachen Begin and Aims of Political Movement Discussed”

Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the “Freedom Party” (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine.

The current visit of Menachem Begin, leader of this party, to the United States is obviously calculated to give the impression of American support for his party in the coming Israeli elections, and to cement political ties with conservative Zionist elements in the United States. Several Americans of national repute have lent their names to welcome his visit. It is inconceivable that those who oppose fascism throughout the world, if correctly informed as to Mr. Begin’s political record and perspectives, could add their names and support to the movement he represents.

Before irreparable damage is done by way of financial contributions, public manifestations in Begin’s behalf, and the creation in Palestine of the impression that a large segment of America supports Fascist elements in Israel, the American public must be informed as to the record and objectives of Mr. Begin and his movement.

The public avowals of Begin’s party are no guide whatever to its actual character. Today they speak of freedom, democracy and anti-imperialism, whereas until recently they openly preached the doctrine of the Fascist state. It is in its actions that the terrorist party betrays its real character; from its past actions we can judge what it may be expected to do in the future.

Attack on Arab Village

A shocking example was their behavior in the Arab village of Deir Yassin. This village, off the main roads and surrounded by Jewish lands, had taken no part in the war, and had even fought off Arab bands who wanted to use the village as their base. On April 9 (THE NEW YORK TIMES), terrorist bands attacked this peaceful village, which was not a military objective in the fighting, killed most of its inhabitants (240 men, women, and children) and kept a few of them alive to parade as captives through the streets of Jerusalem. Most of the Jewish community was horrified at the deed, and the Jewish Agency sent a telegram of apology to King Abdullah of Trans-Jordan. But the terrorists, far from being ashamed of their act, were proud of this massacre, publicized it widely, and invited all the foreign correspondents present in the country to view the heaped corpses and the general havoc at Deir Yassin.

The Deir Yassin incident exemplifies the character and actions of the Freedom Party.

Within the Jewish community they have preached an admixture of ultranationalism, religious mysticism, and racial superiority. Like other Fascist parties they have been used to break strikes, and have themselves pressed for the destruction of free trade unions. In their stead they have proposed corporate unions on the Italian Fascist model.

During the last years of sporadic anti-British violence, the IZL and Stern groups inaugurated a reign of terror in the Palestine Jewish community. Teachers were beaten up for speaking against them, adults were shot for not letting their children join them. By gangster methods, beatings, window-smashing, and wide-spread robberies, the terrorists intimidated the population and exacted a heavy tribute.

The people of the Freedom Party have had no part in the constructive achievements in Palestine. They have reclaimed no land, built no settlements, and only detracted from the Jewish defense activity. Their much-publicized immigration endeavors were minute, and devoted mainly to bringing in Fascist compatriots.

Discrepancies Seen

The discrepancies between the bold claims now being made by Begin and his party, and their record of past performance in Palestine bear the imprint of no ordinary political party. This is the unmistakable stamp of a Fascist party for whom terrorism (against Jews, Arabs, and British alike), and misrepresentation are means, and a “Leader State” is the goal.

In the light of the foregoing considerations, it is imperative that the truth about Mr. Begin and his movement be made known in this country. It is all the more tragic that the top leadership of American Zionism has refused to campaign against Begin’s efforts, or even to expose to its own constituents the dangers to Israel from support to Begin.

The undersigned therefore take this means of publicly presenting a few salient facts concerning Begin and his party; and of urging all concerned not to support this latest manifestation of fascism.

[27 signers]

ISIDORE ABRAMOWITZ,

HANNAH ARENDT,

ABRAHAM BRICK,

RABBI JESSURUN CARDOZO,

ALBERT EINSTEIN,

HERMAN EISEN, M.D.,

HAYIM FINEMAN, M. GALLEN, M.D.,

H.H. HARRIS,

ZELIG S. HARRIS,

SIDNEY HOOK,

FRED KARUSH,

BRURIA KAUFMAN,

IRMA L. LINDHEIM,

NACHMAN MAISEL,

SEYMOUR MELMAN,

MYER D. MENDELSON, M.D.,

HARRY M. OSLINSKY,

SAMUEL PITLICK,

FRITZ ROHRLICH,

LOUIS P. ROCKER,

RUTH SAGIS,

ITZHAK SANKOWSKY,

I.J. SHOENBERG,

SAMUEL SHUMAN,

SINGER,
IRMA WOLFE,

STEFAN WOLFE.

New York, Dec. 2, 1948

Written: Dec. 2, 1948





Contents are public domain.





Not one of those Jewish scholars who signed the letter were anti Semite. On the contrary, they were pro Jew and stood for all the good principles Jews have always affirmed.

[Brooklyn]

^ the post contains personal attacks

Very ironic, indeed.

Don't kid yourself. I'm attacking your posts. Specifically your Neturei Karta posts and your defending a made-up quote that says that Einstein compared Israel, a refuge for survivors of the holocaust and future holocausts, to Nazi Germany. i don't know you. I do know your posts and your posts are as off as off comes.

Again, as before, no proof on your part.

And while I readily retracted a statement that was misinterpreted as an attack, note how that was not done here. Shows the difference between those of us who value the truth as opposed to those on the emotional far right.

[Brooklyn]

kramerica.inc,


don't believe everything you see on the internet ~ quoting Lincoln

Another irony in that so many far right types (including some on this board) still believe there were WMD in Iraq and that the Nov election was a "steal".

[Matnum PI]

Again, as before, no proof on your part... Shows the difference between those of us who value the truth as opposed to those on the emotional far right.

[Farfromgeneva]

^ the post contains personal attacks

Very ironic, indeed.

Don't kid yourself. I'm attacking your posts. Specifically your Neturei Karta posts and your defending a made-up quote that says that Einstein compared Israel, a refuge for survivors of the holocaust and future holocausts, to Nazi Germany. i don't know you. I do know your posts and your posts are as off as off comes.

The constant use of far right is no different than the stuff PB posts when he’s around.



Again, as before, no proof on your part.

And while I readily retracted a statement that was misinterpreted as an attack, note how that was not done here. Shows the difference between those of us who value the truth as opposed to those on the emotional far right.

[Farfromgeneva]

Again, as before, no proof on your part... Shows the difference between those of us who value the truth as opposed to those on the emotional far right.

The problem with this is she’s holding the cup exactly where I need transparency when she’s bending over laughing.

[Brooklyn]

Again, as before, no proof on your part... Shows the difference between those of us who value the truth as opposed to those on the emotional far right.

Hee, hee,hee. Knew that'd get a rise out of you.

[jhu72]

... as someone (a physicist) who has read a number of Einstein biographies, I know Einstein was not as enamored with Zionism as is sometimes claimed. His interest in Zionism began after WW1 and lasted until 1930 when it began to fade significantly. He became a Zionist and was most enamored with it in the period from post WWI to the mid 1920s. As an internationalist, pacifist, liberal, he detested all nationalism and saw it as a great evil, and he did see it in Zionism and it turned him off. Although I am not aware of his ever having made the statement in question, I could imagine him saying something like it. He was part of the Zionist caucus that favored bending over backwards for peace with the Arabs. He was opposed to just taking their land. In 1930 he told Norman Bentwich, an official of the British Mandate, that unless the Zionist made peace with the Arabs, he would leave the organization. A number of run ins and problems he had with the Zionist are described which in the end brought him and them to a point where they each distrusted the other, although thereafter Einstein would sometimes allow himself to be used if it suited him. The break seems to have occurred in 1929 at the November Zurich Zionist Meeting where Einstein insisted on making the case for a number of Arab murderers of Jewish settlers. Einstein was seemingly alone in insisting the Arabs be turned over to the British Mandate law.

Read Ronald W. Clark's 1971 biography of Einstein, "Einstein the Life and Times". Chapter 14, The Call of Zion will confirm. More recent biographies generally quote Clark frequently.

[Matnum PI]

... as someone (a physicist) who has read a number of Einstein biographies...

this may all very well be true. as true as the reports of his relationship with Judaism and how he treated his Jewish friends (and his sons, especially his youngest) and... Einstein was a human. The only reason this quote was made up (if it wasn't, why doesn't it show up anywhere else besides this singular pro-Palestinian meme?) is because Einstein's brand is overflowing with "Jew" and "Genius". i.e. If Einstein said this, Israel is *definitely* wrong. It's silly. My taking exception to this quote isn't because the made-up quote is credited to Einstein. It's because the content of the quote is horrible. if you cannot see why this is the case, you need to do some soul searching.

[jhu72]

... as someone (a physicist) who has read a number of Einstein biographies...

this may all very well be true. as true as the reports of his relationship with Judaism and how he treated his Jewish friends (and his sons, especially his youngest) and... Einstein was a human. The only reason this quote was made up (if it wasn't, why doesn't it show up anywhere else besides this singular pro-Palestinian meme?) is because Einstein's brand is overflowing with "Jew" and "Genius". i.e. If Einstein said this, Israel is *definitely* wrong. It's silly. My taking exception to this quote isn't because the made-up quote is credited to Einstein. It's because the content of the quote is horrible. if you cannot see why this is the case, you need to do some soul searching.

Everyone wanted a piece of Einstein by the 1920s, that's why the Zionist wanted him. He was recruited by trusted personal acquaintances. I agree what the motive would be for making up the quote, pretty obvious. He was most definitely human. I can see it as offensive (which Einstein could be a times) and hurtful. Beyond that I don't know what to say