... I don't think I understand your question. Perfect outcome to what?youthathletics wrote: ↑Sun Sep 29, 2024 9:38 amMaybe you missed this last time....jhu72 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2024 4:39 pm Mad Man delivers a speech at the UN as the audience empties the venue. This is not going to end well for Bibi, the Israelis and the US. If Trump is elected, he will make it much worse.
What would you want to be the perfect outcome?
Israel and West Bank Settlements
Re: Israel and West Bank Settlements
STAND AGAINST FASCISM
- youthathletics
- Posts: 15985
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Re: Israel and West Bank Settlements
Of the current events going on, in and around Israel, Lebanon, Palestine, etc. How would you want to see this end?jhu72 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2024 3:40 am... I don't think I understand your question. Perfect outcome to what?youthathletics wrote: ↑Sun Sep 29, 2024 9:38 amMaybe you missed this last time....jhu72 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2024 4:39 pm Mad Man delivers a speech at the UN as the audience empties the venue. This is not going to end well for Bibi, the Israelis and the US. If Trump is elected, he will make it much worse.
What would you want to be the perfect outcome?
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Soren Kierkegaard
~Livy
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Soren Kierkegaard
Re: Israel and West Bank Settlements
Many of us here...who would consider ourselves on the opposite end of the ideological spectrum from yourself...have been saying for some time that a two-state solution is the outcome we most hope to see. That's not hard to understand, is it YA? The particulars of such an arrangement are, obviously, one of the toughest nuts to crack that exist in the world today.
Do you agree that this is a simple response? This would not "end" what is happening today, but moving towards this "end" is what - i think - you'll hear as a response to your questions from those of us that are left-of-center around here generally.
..
Do you agree that this is a simple response? This would not "end" what is happening today, but moving towards this "end" is what - i think - you'll hear as a response to your questions from those of us that are left-of-center around here generally.
..
"The purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog." - Calvin, to Hobbes
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Re: Israel and West Bank Settlements
Nope. Bad idea.
“ The U.S. is sending a “few thousand” troops to the Middle East to bolster security and to defend Israel if necessary, the Pentagon said Monday. The announcement follows word that Israel has already launched limited raids across the border into Lebanon.
The additional forces would raise the total number of troops in the region to as many as 43,000.”
https://apnews.com/article/us-troops-mi ... a8103f27f1
“ The U.S. is sending a “few thousand” troops to the Middle East to bolster security and to defend Israel if necessary, the Pentagon said Monday. The announcement follows word that Israel has already launched limited raids across the border into Lebanon.
The additional forces would raise the total number of troops in the region to as many as 43,000.”
https://apnews.com/article/us-troops-mi ... a8103f27f1
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
- youthathletics
- Posts: 15985
- Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:36 pm
Re: Israel and West Bank Settlements
Related: 700 National Guard out of TN shipped off to Kuwait Saturday. Maybe send them back home to help the flood….in our Country. https://x.com/rwmalonemd/status/1840781 ... a82I2GssRgPizzaSnake wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2024 9:00 pm Nope. Bad idea.
“ The U.S. is sending a “few thousand” troops to the Middle East to bolster security and to defend Israel if necessary, the Pentagon said Monday. The announcement follows word that Israel has already launched limited raids across the border into Lebanon.
The additional forces would raise the total number of troops in the region to as many as 43,000.”
https://apnews.com/article/us-troops-mi ... a8103f27f1
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Soren Kierkegaard
~Livy
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Soren Kierkegaard
- NattyBohChamps04
- Posts: 2873
- Joined: Tue May 04, 2021 11:40 pm
Re: Israel and West Bank Settlements
Related: More than 5,900 National Guard members from multiple states rescued hundreds of people and cleared roads across the Southeast in the wake of Hurricane Helene, which struck Hurricane Alley recently.youthathletics wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2024 9:28 pmRelated: 700 National Guard out of TN shipped off to Kuwait Saturday. Maybe send them back home to help the flood….in our Country. https://x.com/rwmalonemd/status/1840781 ... a82I2GssRgPizzaSnake wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2024 9:00 pm Nope. Bad idea.
“ The U.S. is sending a “few thousand” troops to the Middle East to bolster security and to defend Israel if necessary, the Pentagon said Monday. The announcement follows word that Israel has already launched limited raids across the border into Lebanon.
The additional forces would raise the total number of troops in the region to as many as 43,000.”
https://apnews.com/article/us-troops-mi ... a8103f27f1
https://www.army.mil/article/280098/nat ... _southeast
- cradleandshoot
- Posts: 15595
- Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:42 pm
Re: Israel and West Bank Settlements
There will NEVER be a 2 state solution. Iran doesn't want a 2 state solution. They want Israel wiped off the face of earth. That ain't exactly a positive starting point for negotiations now is it Dis?? Jewish people are familiar with what happens when they are threatened with annihilation. A trip to Auschwitz brings back the memory very clearly. Can you explain how the threat to Jews from Iran is any different than what Hitler tried to do?dislaxxic wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2024 7:46 am Many of us here...who would consider ourselves on the opposite end of the ideological spectrum from yourself...have been saying for some time that a two-state solution is the outcome we most hope to see. That's not hard to understand, is it YA? The particulars of such an arrangement are, obviously, one of the toughest nuts to crack that exist in the world today.
Do you agree that this is a simple response? This would not "end" what is happening today, but moving towards this "end" is what - i think - you'll hear as a response to your questions from those of us that are left-of-center around here generally.
..
We don't make mistakes, we have happy accidents.
Bob Ross:
Bob Ross:
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- Posts: 5369
- Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:36 pm
Re: Israel and West Bank Settlements
Probably true. But, what business is it of the US?cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2024 7:05 amThere will NEVER be a 2 state solution. Iran doesn't want a 2 state solution. They want Israel wiped off the face of earth. That ain't exactly a positive starting point for negotiations now is it Dis?? Jewish people are familiar with what happens when they are threatened with annihilation. A trip to Auschwitz brings back the memory very clearly. Can you explain how the threat to Jews from Iran is any different than what Hitler tried to do?dislaxxic wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2024 7:46 am Many of us here...who would consider ourselves on the opposite end of the ideological spectrum from yourself...have been saying for some time that a two-state solution is the outcome we most hope to see. That's not hard to understand, is it YA? The particulars of such an arrangement are, obviously, one of the toughest nuts to crack that exist in the world today.
Do you agree that this is a simple response? This would not "end" what is happening today, but moving towards this "end" is what - i think - you'll hear as a response to your questions from those of us that are left-of-center around here generally.
..
One could argue Israel is a useful proxy that allows the US to project force in an strategic area (oil country), but, as a late, Israel (under current fascist gov’t of Bibi and his religious nutter coalition) has become more of a hindrance than a help.
Cut ‘em loose.
Countries don’t have allies, they have shared interests.
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
Re: Israel and West Bank Settlements
Israel wants a two state solution less than Iran. It has never wanted a two state solution especially now.PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2024 11:18 amProbably true. But, what business is it of the US?cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2024 7:05 amThere will NEVER be a 2 state solution. Iran doesn't want a 2 state solution. They want Israel wiped off the face of earth. That ain't exactly a positive starting point for negotiations now is it Dis?? Jewish people are familiar with what happens when they are threatened with annihilation. A trip to Auschwitz brings back the memory very clearly. Can you explain how the threat to Jews from Iran is any different than what Hitler tried to do?dislaxxic wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2024 7:46 am Many of us here...who would consider ourselves on the opposite end of the ideological spectrum from yourself...have been saying for some time that a two-state solution is the outcome we most hope to see. That's not hard to understand, is it YA? The particulars of such an arrangement are, obviously, one of the toughest nuts to crack that exist in the world today.
Do you agree that this is a simple response? This would not "end" what is happening today, but moving towards this "end" is what - i think - you'll hear as a response to your questions from those of us that are left-of-center around here generally.
..
One could argue Israel is a useful proxy that allows the US to project force in an strategic area (oil country), but, as a late, Israel (under current fascist gov’t of Bibi and his religious nutter coalition) has become more of a hindrance than a help.
Cut ‘em loose.
Countries don’t have allies, they have shared interests.
There is no comparison betwwrn Iran and Germany.
Until the two principals sit down and negotiate there is no real way to know what the hard lines are.
Re: Israel and West Bank Settlements
They've had DECADES to do that, Ocanada. It ain't happening.OCanada wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2024 11:42 amIsrael wants a two state solution less than Iran. It has never wanted a two state solution especially now.PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2024 11:18 amProbably true. But, what business is it of the US?cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2024 7:05 amThere will NEVER be a 2 state solution. Iran doesn't want a 2 state solution. They want Israel wiped off the face of earth. That ain't exactly a positive starting point for negotiations now is it Dis?? Jewish people are familiar with what happens when they are threatened with annihilation. A trip to Auschwitz brings back the memory very clearly. Can you explain how the threat to Jews from Iran is any different than what Hitler tried to do?dislaxxic wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2024 7:46 am Many of us here...who would consider ourselves on the opposite end of the ideological spectrum from yourself...have been saying for some time that a two-state solution is the outcome we most hope to see. That's not hard to understand, is it YA? The particulars of such an arrangement are, obviously, one of the toughest nuts to crack that exist in the world today.
Do you agree that this is a simple response? This would not "end" what is happening today, but moving towards this "end" is what - i think - you'll hear as a response to your questions from those of us that are left-of-center around here generally.
..
One could argue Israel is a useful proxy that allows the US to project force in an strategic area (oil country), but, as a late, Israel (under current fascist gov’t of Bibi and his religious nutter coalition) has become more of a hindrance than a help.
Cut ‘em loose.
Countries don’t have allies, they have shared interests.
There is no comparison betwwrn Iran and Germany.
Until the two principals sit down and negotiate there is no real way to know what the hard lines are.
You have two choices:
1. US, EU, Arab States get together and FORCE a two State solution, and use military to do it.
2. Let the war continue until hell freezes over. This will be going on for another 1,000 years.
That's it. Those are the choices. These two enemies will. not. sit. down. and fix it. They don't want it fixed. Period.
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- Posts: 5369
- Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:36 pm
Re: Israel and West Bank Settlements
Great. Just great.
“A U.S. official said the United States was preparing to help defend Israel against an attack. Earlier, Israeli forces launched a ground invasion of southern Lebanon targeting the Iranian-backed militia Hezbollah.”
“A U.S. official said the United States was preparing to help defend Israel against an attack. Earlier, Israeli forces launched a ground invasion of southern Lebanon targeting the Iranian-backed militia Hezbollah.”
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
Re: Israel and West Bank Settlements
The solution to every problem is "arm some guy"...and war, and mission creep, followed by more war, and more escalation.PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2024 11:50 am Great. Just great.
“A U.S. official said the United States was preparing to help defend Israel against an attack. Earlier, Israeli forces launched a ground invasion of southern Lebanon targeting the Iranian-backed militia Hezbollah.”
70 years of this way of thinking, with no end in sight. These are educated adults making these choices.
Doesn't matter how many times we get the same bad outcome. We just keep doing it.
Re: Israel and West Bank Settlements
Israel certainly will not unless Trump loses and the US is willing to cut off our foreign aid. I think it might be possible w the Arab states . In the recent negotiations Israel kept dropping in poison pills as a condition but you are more likely right.a fan wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2024 11:49 amThey've had DECADES to do that, Ocanada. It ain't happening.OCanada wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2024 11:42 amIsrael wants a two state solution less than Iran. It has never wanted a two state solution especially now.PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2024 11:18 amProbably true. But, what business is it of the US?cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2024 7:05 amThere will NEVER be a 2 state solution. Iran doesn't want a 2 state solution. They want Israel wiped off the face of earth. That ain't exactly a positive starting point for negotiations now is it Dis?? Jewish people are familiar with what happens when they are threatened with annihilation. A trip to Auschwitz brings back the memory very clearly. Can you explain how the threat to Jews from Iran is any different than what Hitler tried to do?dislaxxic wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2024 7:46 am Many of us here...who would consider ourselves on the opposite end of the ideological spectrum from yourself...have been saying for some time that a two-state solution is the outcome we most hope to see. That's not hard to understand, is it YA? The particulars of such an arrangement are, obviously, one of the toughest nuts to crack that exist in the world today.
Do you agree that this is a simple response? This would not "end" what is happening today, but moving towards this "end" is what - i think - you'll hear as a response to your questions from those of us that are left-of-center around here generally.
..
One could argue Israel is a useful proxy that allows the US to project force in an strategic area (oil country), but, as a late, Israel (under current fascist gov’t of Bibi and his religious nutter coalition) has become more of a hindrance than a help.
Cut ‘em loose.
Countries don’t have allies, they have shared interests.
There is no comparison betwwrn Iran and Germany.
Until the two principals sit down and negotiate there is no real way to know what the hard lines are.
You have two choices:
1. US, EU, Arab States get together and FORCE a two State solution, and use military to do it.
2. Let the war continue until hell freezes over. This will be going on for another 1,000 years.
That's it. Those are the choices. These two enemies will. not. sit. down. and fix it. They don't want it fixed. Period.
Re: Israel and West Bank Settlements
If it helps, and I'm sure it doesn't....I take precisely zero pleasure in being likely right here. It's ABSURD that this has gone on for this long, with no end in sight.OCanada wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2024 12:27 pmIsrael certainly will not unless Trump loses and the US is willing to cut off our foreign aid. I think it might be possible w the Arab states . In the recent negotiations Israel kept dropping in poison pills as a condition but you are more likely right.a fan wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2024 11:49 amThey've had DECADES to do that, Ocanada. It ain't happening.OCanada wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2024 11:42 amIsrael wants a two state solution less than Iran. It has never wanted a two state solution especially now.PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2024 11:18 amProbably true. But, what business is it of the US?cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2024 7:05 amThere will NEVER be a 2 state solution. Iran doesn't want a 2 state solution. They want Israel wiped off the face of earth. That ain't exactly a positive starting point for negotiations now is it Dis?? Jewish people are familiar with what happens when they are threatened with annihilation. A trip to Auschwitz brings back the memory very clearly. Can you explain how the threat to Jews from Iran is any different than what Hitler tried to do?dislaxxic wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2024 7:46 am Many of us here...who would consider ourselves on the opposite end of the ideological spectrum from yourself...have been saying for some time that a two-state solution is the outcome we most hope to see. That's not hard to understand, is it YA? The particulars of such an arrangement are, obviously, one of the toughest nuts to crack that exist in the world today.
Do you agree that this is a simple response? This would not "end" what is happening today, but moving towards this "end" is what - i think - you'll hear as a response to your questions from those of us that are left-of-center around here generally.
..
One could argue Israel is a useful proxy that allows the US to project force in an strategic area (oil country), but, as a late, Israel (under current fascist gov’t of Bibi and his religious nutter coalition) has become more of a hindrance than a help.
Cut ‘em loose.
Countries don’t have allies, they have shared interests.
There is no comparison betwwrn Iran and Germany.
Until the two principals sit down and negotiate there is no real way to know what the hard lines are.
You have two choices:
1. US, EU, Arab States get together and FORCE a two State solution, and use military to do it.
2. Let the war continue until hell freezes over. This will be going on for another 1,000 years.
That's it. Those are the choices. These two enemies will. not. sit. down. and fix it. They don't want it fixed. Period.
The two sides will never work this out on their own....unless you force them to do it.
Re: Israel and West Bank Settlements
Iran has launched ballistic missiles per news as tge ME continues to spin out of control.a fan wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2024 12:32 pmIf it helps, and I'm sure it doesn't....I take precisely zero pleasure in being likely right here. It's ABSURD that this has gone on for this long, with no end in sight.OCanada wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2024 12:27 pmIsrael certainly will not unless Trump loses and the US is willing to cut off our foreign aid. I think it might be possible w the Arab states . In the recent negotiations Israel kept dropping in poison pills as a condition but you are more likely right.a fan wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2024 11:49 amThey've had DECADES to do that, Ocanada. It ain't happening.OCanada wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2024 11:42 amIsrael wants a two state solution less than Iran. It has never wanted a two state solution especially now.PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2024 11:18 amProbably true. But, what business is it of the US?cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2024 7:05 amThere will NEVER be a 2 state solution. Iran doesn't want a 2 state solution. They want Israel wiped off the face of earth. That ain't exactly a positive starting point for negotiations now is it Dis?? Jewish people are familiar with what happens when they are threatened with annihilation. A trip to Auschwitz brings back the memory very clearly. Can you explain how the threat to Jews from Iran is any different than what Hitler tried to do?dislaxxic wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2024 7:46 am Many of us here...who would consider ourselves on the opposite end of the ideological spectrum from yourself...have been saying for some time that a two-state solution is the outcome we most hope to see. That's not hard to understand, is it YA? The particulars of such an arrangement are, obviously, one of the toughest nuts to crack that exist in the world today.
Do you agree that this is a simple response? This would not "end" what is happening today, but moving towards this "end" is what - i think - you'll hear as a response to your questions from those of us that are left-of-center around here generally.
..
One could argue Israel is a useful proxy that allows the US to project force in an strategic area (oil country), but, as a late, Israel (under current fascist gov’t of Bibi and his religious nutter coalition) has become more of a hindrance than a help.
Cut ‘em loose.
Countries don’t have allies, they have shared interests.
There is no comparison betwwrn Iran and Germany.
Until the two principals sit down and negotiate there is no real way to know what the hard lines are.
You have two choices:
1. US, EU, Arab States get together and FORCE a two State solution, and use military to do it.
2. Let the war continue until hell freezes over. This will be going on for another 1,000 years.
That's it. Those are the choices. These two enemies will. not. sit. down. and fix it. They don't want it fixed. Period.
The two sides will never work this out on their own....unless you force them to do it.
- NattyBohChamps04
- Posts: 2873
- Joined: Tue May 04, 2021 11:40 pm
Re: Israel and West Bank Settlements
They did this back in April as well.
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- Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:36 pm
Re: Israel and West Bank Settlements
Co-opted adults.a fan wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2024 11:57 amThe solution to every problem is "arm some guy"...and war, and mission creep, followed by more war, and more escalation.PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2024 11:50 am Great. Just great.
“A U.S. official said the United States was preparing to help defend Israel against an attack. Earlier, Israeli forces launched a ground invasion of southern Lebanon targeting the Iranian-backed militia Hezbollah.”
70 years of this way of thinking, with no end in sight. These are educated adults making these choices.
Doesn't matter how many times we get the same bad outcome. We just keep doing it.
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
-
- Posts: 5369
- Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:36 pm
Re: Israel and West Bank Settlements
No fealty there. Israel will just seek a new patron. Russia would have been my guess prior to their emasculation and exposure in Ukraine.OCanada wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2024 12:27 pmIsrael certainly will not unless Trump loses and the US is willing to cut off our foreign aid. I think it might be possible w the Arab states . In the recent negotiations Israel kept dropping in poison pills as a condition but you are more likely right.a fan wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2024 11:49 amThey've had DECADES to do that, Ocanada. It ain't happening.OCanada wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2024 11:42 amIsrael wants a two state solution less than Iran. It has never wanted a two state solution especially now.PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2024 11:18 amProbably true. But, what business is it of the US?cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2024 7:05 amThere will NEVER be a 2 state solution. Iran doesn't want a 2 state solution. They want Israel wiped off the face of earth. That ain't exactly a positive starting point for negotiations now is it Dis?? Jewish people are familiar with what happens when they are threatened with annihilation. A trip to Auschwitz brings back the memory very clearly. Can you explain how the threat to Jews from Iran is any different than what Hitler tried to do?dislaxxic wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2024 7:46 am Many of us here...who would consider ourselves on the opposite end of the ideological spectrum from yourself...have been saying for some time that a two-state solution is the outcome we most hope to see. That's not hard to understand, is it YA? The particulars of such an arrangement are, obviously, one of the toughest nuts to crack that exist in the world today.
Do you agree that this is a simple response? This would not "end" what is happening today, but moving towards this "end" is what - i think - you'll hear as a response to your questions from those of us that are left-of-center around here generally.
..
One could argue Israel is a useful proxy that allows the US to project force in an strategic area (oil country), but, as a late, Israel (under current fascist gov’t of Bibi and his religious nutter coalition) has become more of a hindrance than a help.
Cut ‘em loose.
Countries don’t have allies, they have shared interests.
There is no comparison betwwrn Iran and Germany.
Until the two principals sit down and negotiate there is no real way to know what the hard lines are.
You have two choices:
1. US, EU, Arab States get together and FORCE a two State solution, and use military to do it.
2. Let the war continue until hell freezes over. This will be going on for another 1,000 years.
That's it. Those are the choices. These two enemies will. not. sit. down. and fix it. They don't want it fixed. Period.
China maybe.
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
Re: Israel and West Bank Settlements
We will see if Israel takes the "win" or keeps pushing. The missile defense was pretty impressive, but let's not fool ourselves into thinking that was all Israel. US Navy was apparently knocking down significant numbers that overloaded Israeli system.
STAND AGAINST FASCISM