Israel and West Bank Settlements

[admin]

Glad i am not a jew depending on some of you dumbass mother effing liberals to defend my nation. This cradle and shoot signing off, the brain damaged stupid left has taken over this forum. Have a wonderful time. I'm sticking to the HS lax forum from now on. This forum use to be fun and educational. Like so much else in America you dumb ass liberals have destroyed it.

Cradle, I edited your post as you walked out the door. No penalty... as you're walking out the door. But your profanity was unnecessary and noticed. This website, including the politics forum, are frequented by a spectrum of people including children. Let's keep the language and tone in accord with this spectrum of audiences.

[Typical Lax Dad]

[EDITED]

Glad i am not a jew depending on some of you dumbass mother effing liberals to defend my nation. This cradle and shoot signing off, the brain damaged stupid left has taken over this forum. Have a wonderful time. I'm sticking to the HS lax forum from now on. This forum use to be fun and educational. Like so much else in America you dumb ass liberals have destroyed it.

It was fun while it lasted. It ain't fun or educational anymore.

Good night Mrs Calabash... where ever you are.

Bye Felicia.

[jhu72]

Israel's current but unspoken solution being driven by the Likud is genocide. Israel has no viable solution, since rejecting the two state solution. Israel's problem is not external - it is internal, and they are making it worse.

The conflict between Israel and the Palestinians (which is really between Israel, the Palestinians, and Hamas) does include some fault on the part of the Palestinians and particularly Hamas, no? Hamas aren't exactly angels...

... of course Hamas makes it much worse. But the Israeli game plan, because they can't (or don't want to) really solve the Hamas problem (nor can the Palestinians solve the problem), is to punish the Palestinians en masse. I see a big distinction between the mass of Palestinians and Hamas. They have different goals. Israel (Likud) will never see a difference, because they don't want to. They (Likud and other extreme right wing Israelis) use Hamas as an excuse to oppress the Palestinians. If Hamas didn't exist, the Israeli right wing would invent it. No one's hands are clean, but some are much dirtier than others.

[Farfromgeneva]

I was with you previously about time being up so to speak on us protecting them but I still think it’s important to keep in mind this is a group that’s been hated by almost everyone else at one point or another and driven from their homes repeatedly. Doesn’t excuse the Netenyahus of the world being overly aggressive but I still think it needs to be considered in the context of however much we’ve protected them that their entire existence their has been under constant existential threat for each and every day of those 50 odd years. Just like some good nature folks have lost it with constant poor behavior here and backslid into said persons gutter, it’s understandable that there’s a aggressiveness to Israelis conditioned over their life at risk.

... even given the so called existential threats from some problematic Arabs, I really question how real that is. I look at it, they seem more than capable of protecting themselves. Fewer and fewer Arab states have any interest in tangling with them. They are certainly not making themselves safer by constantly beating up the Palestinians. The more we allow them to play the game "poor Israel, everybody hates us" the more emboldened they become. They have become more aggressive in the past 4 years thanks to Trump's pandering.

If they feel they need us so much, then we should be able to drive them to a compromise with the Palestinians. They are less inclined to compromise today than anytime since the early 70s. We have never pressed them, to my mind. In the end we always give in to them and their paranoia, to our detriment.

Israel has a problem of demographics. Slightly less than 7 million Jews live in Israel. Gaza and the West Bank contain 4.5 - 5.0 million Arabs -- 2 to 2.5 million in each area. The Arab population is growing faster. Beating up on the Palestinians constantly solves no problem. Israel's current but unspoken solution being driven by the Likud is genocide. Israel has no viable solution, since rejecting the two state solution. Israel's problem is not external - it is internal, and they are making it worse.

This may be true. But if they once lived with then umbrella of us don’t we have some responsibility to them and rest of the world which might be force a two state solution but at a min if we walk it has to be clearly communicated. And at this point if fear they’d be worked out super fast if the implicit support went away especially not well communicated. Population argument is less compelling bc over time that ebbs and flows for all nations, China will be slowing down, Malthusian principle demands it.

But also bigger picture in geopolitics: would you apply the same logic universally which is that is we take a side and support someone with our resources does that give us a universal right to tell them how to behave as a sovereign entity? Or do you think this would be a unique situation where it would be consistent to help another country but eh hands off on the sovereign decisions that they make?

I don’t like the way leadership has behaved and something has to change but I don’t know that saying “f it you guys have been too much of a holes for too long you’re on your own now” is a great path.

My sister converted 20yrs ago and if you know about concerts you know they are some of the most hardcore Jews. Brother in law born Jewish but nominal until he got serious when his wife knew 100x more about the religion than he did but they are hippies, go to a synagogue In Berkeley where they have a scent free section and if you’re feeling good could stand up and twinkle your hands (my BILs brother ran Ropes Gray and Harvard/Yale degrees and was horrified by the scene it was fun to watch at my nephews barmitsvah), brother in law works at Berkeley and my sister was a stage director first ten or so years of adult life (mostly at ART in Boston and Berkeley Rep in Cali if any theater folks are floating around, she did a few summers of his cool thing called the San Francisco Mine Troop that was popular there doing free parking shows for years, met Linda perry as a kid at one my sister did). Seriously, they may actually side with the Palestinian as based on their mindset but I know my brother in law was terrorized as a kid growing up in Lexington MA and while he’s fine I know he’s impacted by that today so imagine what it’s like over in the West Bank for Jews.

I don’t know the answer and don’t like being a protector of some country, any country. Certainly not for our own geopolitical purposes, but I don’t see how we can walk and claim we ever cared.

[Farfromgeneva]

[EDITED]

Glad i am not a jew depending on some of you dumbass mother effing liberals to defend my nation. This cradle and shoot signing off, the brain damaged stupid left has taken over this forum. Have a wonderful time. I'm sticking to the HS lax forum from now on. This forum use to be fun and educational. Like so much else in America you dumb ass liberals have destroyed it.

It was fun while it lasted. It ain't fun or educational anymore.

Good night Mrs Calabash... where ever you are.

Will give you more time with roxxy

[Farfromgeneva]

Israel's current but unspoken solution being driven by the Likud is genocide. Israel has no viable solution, since rejecting the two state solution. Israel's problem is not external - it is internal, and they are making it worse.

The conflict between Israel and the Palestinians (which is really between Israel, the Palestinians, and Hamas) does include some fault on the part of the Palestinians and particularly Hamas, no? Hamas aren't exactly angels...

... of course Hamas makes it much worse. But the Israeli game plan, because they can't (or don't want to) really solve the Hamas problem (nor can the Palestinians solve the problem), is to punish the Palestinians en masse. I see a big distinction between the mass of Palestinians and Hamas. They have different goals. Israel (Likud) will never see a difference, because they don't want to. They (Likud and other extreme right wing Israelis) use Hamas as an excuse to oppress the Palestinians. If Hamas didn't exist, the Israeli right wing would invent it. No one's hands are clean, but some are much dirtier than others.

Agreed but Israel doesn’t equal Likud anymore than Trumpaga the party didn’t equal everyone here when he was in office.

[Brooklyn]

[EDITED]

Glad i am not a jew depending on some of you dumbass mother effing liberals to defend my nation. This cradle and shoot signing off, the brain damaged stupid left has taken over this forum. Have a wonderful time. I'm sticking to the HS lax forum from now on. This forum use to be fun and educational. Like so much else in America you dumb ass liberals have destroyed it.

It was fun while it lasted. It ain't fun or educational anymore.

Good night Mrs Calabash... where ever you are.

This post is just another example of right wing hate.

Unlike the right wingers, you don't see patriotic libs/progressives posting such hate here.

Thank you, Patriots!

[JoeMauer89]

[EDITED]

Glad i am not a jew depending on some of you dumbass mother effing liberals to defend my nation. This cradle and shoot signing off, the brain damaged stupid left has taken over this forum. Have a wonderful time. I'm sticking to the HS lax forum from now on. This forum use to be fun and educational. Like so much else in America you dumb ass liberals have destroyed it.

It was fun while it lasted. It ain't fun or educational anymore.

Good night Mrs Calabash... where ever you are.

Bye Felicia.

Hitting a guy on the way out, c'mon now TLD that's a sad move. You are one of the biggest reasons he's leaving the politics thread. Nobody likes banging their head against the wall a million times only to have you stubbornly repeat the same subtle attempts at deflection with dry humor. You have more to offer than that and you know it. It's a shame, somewhere along the line you lost it, don't know what caused it.

JoeMauer89!

[Farfromgeneva]

You are jumping to conclusions with limited background my friend.

[JoeMauer89]

You are jumping to conclusions with limited background my friend.

Not a conclusion, TLD did not have to say, "Bye Felicia" That's middle school behavior, he's a grown man. He has a tremendous amount to offer, yet chooses to act like a schoolboy with the constant attempts to use humor and jokes to deflect any real attempts to engage. It's a pretty regular occurrence, at least on the politics thread. When he doesn't do that, his posts are informative and I look forward to engaging with him. Simple as that.

JoeMauer89!

[Farfromgeneva]

If you had been around for years of positive engagement between the two and Cradle throwing his elbows around as he’s acknowledged he will do as a cranky old man you’d have a lot more context for this.

I’m fact I had an issue when I first delved into this cesspool with him and TLD came to me and provided contest which subsequently allowed me to converse with cradle here and occasional PM as well so you are basing your conclusion on super incomplete information. I guarantee you of that.

[Brooklyn]

JEWISH MAN ASHAMED OF ISRAEL ACTIONS







"We are with you!"

[Gretchen]

JEWISH MAN ASHAMED OF ISRAEL ACTIONS

This is small group of chasidim who have been opposed to the establishment of the State of Israel since Day One. vehemently. it's a video of an extremist Jew, not "a jewish man".

[Brooklyn]

FarFromGeneva,

I don’t know the answer

I do and it's the same solution I've mentioned several times before, especially in the old LP forum: the one state solution. Had this been employed Israel and much of the Middle East would have been at peace for over half a century. There would not have been a 9/11 or an imperialistic war on Iraq or Afghanistan and the military budget wastage would have been reduced by trillions.

[Brooklyn]

JEWISH MAN ASHAMED OF ISRAEL ACTIONS

This is small group of chasidim who have been opposed to the establishment of the State of Israel since Day One. vehemently. it's a video of an extremist Jew, not "a jewish man".

Having grown up in Brooklyn, I knew quite a few Satmars in my time. This denomination claims a membership of 120,000 people or more. There are other Orthodox groups who interpret the Bible correctly and share their views. There are also many liberal Jewish groups who share those views. Hardly an "extremist" among them.

[seacoaster]

JEWISH MAN ASHAMED OF ISRAEL ACTIONS

This is small group of chasidim who have been opposed to the establishment of the State of Israel since Day One. vehemently. it's a video of an extremist Jew, not "a jewish man".

Yes. And a pretty good example of our proclivity to use extremists to make a point. All it does is divide us more, without a sliver of discussion of the complicated underlying issues.

[Brooklyn]

JEWISH MAN ASHAMED OF ISRAEL ACTIONS

This is small group of chasidim who have been opposed to the establishment of the State of Israel since Day One. vehemently. it's a video of an extremist Jew, not "a jewish man".

Yes. And a pretty good example of our proclivity to use extremists to make a point. All it does is divide us more, without a sliver of discussion of the complicated underlying issues.

If that's the case then forum right wingers should never defend the extremist Republicans and their hero Trump. Satmars are among the most peaceful and charitable people I have ever known. By contrast, the Republicans today among the most hate filled, warmongering, and intolerant.

Putting down Satmars and other peace loving people is without any justification. Putting down hate filled Republicans is justified for the reasons you see on your nightly tv news.

[Gretchen]

JEWISH MAN ASHAMED OF ISRAEL ACTIONS

This is small group of chasidim who have been opposed to the establishment of the State of Israel since Day One. vehemently. it's a video of an extremist Jew, not "a jewish man".

Yes. And a pretty good example of our proclivity to use extremists to make a point. All it does is divide us more, without a sliver of discussion of the complicated underlying issues.

yes.

[Gretchen]

JEWISH MAN ASHAMED OF ISRAEL ACTIONS

This is small group of chasidim who have been opposed to the establishment of the State of Israel since Day One. vehemently. it's a video of an extremist Jew, not "a jewish man".

Yes. And a pretty good example of our proclivity to use extremists to make a point. All it does is divide us more, without a sliver of discussion of the complicated underlying issues.

If that's the case then forum right wingers should never defend the extremist Republicans and their hero Trump. Satmars are among the most peaceful and charitable people I have ever known. By contrast, the Republicans today among the most hate filled, warmongering, and intolerant.

Putting down Satmars and other peace loving people is without any justification. Putting down hate filled Republicans is justified for the reasons you see on your nightly tv news.

not putting them down. just saying they aren't a good example to use.

[Farfromgeneva]

FarFromGeneva,

I don’t know the answer

I do and it's the same solution I've mentioned several times before, especially in the old LP forum: the one state solution. Had this been employed Israel and much of the Middle East would have been at peace for over half a century. There would not have been a 9/11 or an imperialistic war on Iraq or Afghanistan and the military budget wastage would have been reduced by trillions.

Sounds nice but I think you are instance of you believe that would end well.