Brooklyn wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2023 6:00 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2023 2:20 pm
Quick question: are you Satmar or other Orthodox sect?
More importantly, what makes you an expert in sacred texts much less on God's will?
Or asked a little gentler, what makes you more knowledgeable than the millions of Jews who disagree with you and these interpretations?
No, you've not remotely come close to "proving" anything at all except your own ideological zealotry. But we already knew that, didn't we?
Can you provide a citation on the "hundreds of thousands" of "Jewish progressives". etc? Is being "openly sympathetic to Palestinians and other victimized groups" make one anti-zionist??? Does that mean I'm anti-zionist because I'm openly sympathetic to the plight of innocent Palestinian civilians? Which I am.
I don't think so.
I was wondering about the views of Jews regarding Israel, how they breakdown, knowing darn well this is not a monolithic group. Couldn't find much about these Jewish progressives" who are anti-zionist...but views do indeed vary as to degree of support, sense of connection, etc.
Here's some PEW research on the question:
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads ... on-israel/
Everything else I found also made pretty darn clear that the very few Jews who are actually anti-zionist are almost all Orthodox, mostly just the two groups we've discussed representing less than 6% of all Orthodox...themselves a minority of Jews.
But hey, surely there are
some other Jews who are anti-zionist as well...gotta be a couple here and there...
On your other arguments, they're interesting, though I disagree with your absolutist statements about what the Constitution allows or doesn't allow...clearly a whole heck of a lot of Constitutional scholars and SCOTUS Justices don't agree with you, but that's ok, you have a pattern of declaring absolute certainty of your views being superior to those of most anyone who is actually more expert than you. Par for the course.
I find your argument about American priorities at least more rational and I assume coming from a good place.
"experts on Jewish texts"
Never said I was. But they claim to be and openly discuss their views all over the Internet. Don't argue with me, argue with them if you're so smart.
Don't do Torah. Never have.
"hundreds of thousands" of Jewish progressives
over 400K + members ~ never has been a secret, pal. That doesn't even include the readers of its articles such as myself > so much more than the "couple here and there". And there are plenty more groups like it. If you want to know who they are you need to do your homework. example:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/a-tear-in ... massacres/
As for disestablishment, the Constitution is perfectly clear. Many others who are far more intelligent than I have come to the same conclusion over the years:
https://www.amazon.com/SURPRISE-Millita ... B01MQVR7XI
I have not read this book so I cannot say for certain whether it can be understood by laymen. But give it a look so that you can learn the truth.
"I find your argument about American priorities at least more rational and I assume coming from a good place."
That, at least, is well stated.
Glad you appreciate the last...
ok, so you find compelling the arguments from people who have a tiny minority view of how to read the exact same text. And yet, you're not an expert yourself, not a scholar...so, what makes it so compelling, that it seems to support your own ideology?
It's interesting that you use the same logic about the Constitutionality of support for Israel, a terribly small minority of people would find that interesting (well, some people find the Protocols of Zion "interesting, so who knows...), let's just say that the vast majority of Constitutional scholars and SCOTUS Justices over the decades have not agreed with that tiny minority view among actual scholars...
Pretty obviously you find the same aspects compelling...they support your own predilections and ideology.
But hey, 400k of Jews are among the Jewish progressives you say are anti-zionist...what's that 2.5% of Jews? Seriously?
Big difference between having empathy for the plight of Palestinians and being anti-zionist or do you equate those things? That would be a much bigger percentage, indeed my hunch would be that a majority of Jewish people have such empathy and concern...not all, but most.