Brooklyn wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2023 11:32 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2023 8:31 am
Did I claim to be "smart", much less "so smart"?
Heck, did I claim to be a scholar of sacred texts?
Did I claim to be personally equipped to engage in scholarly rabbinic midrash?
Did I even claim to claim to read Hebrew???
No, I did not. Dumb challenge.
My point, stated again, is simply that the vast majority of other Jewish scholars strongly disagree with the views you state. They're neither stupid nor ignorant of these sacred texts and their history of interpretation.
Again, can YOU "prove" you're right and these many millions of Jews and rabbis over the millennia are wrong in their interpretation of these sacred texts and passages? Maybe God speaks to you so clearly...I dunno... but that's the only way I know of to "prove" such a claim.
Look, you're free to hold what ever beliefs you may have, and to state them clearly if you wish, but most of us are here to have reasonable discussions based in some semblance of logic and facts, not simply articles of faith.
IMO you have all sorts of reasonable (IMO) arguments to make supporting your views about international affairs and the proper role for the US, but trying to tell us that the views of a very small minority of Jews are superior to and should supercede the views of the vast majority of Jews is very poor logic and, again IMO, NOT reasonable or helpful to your other arguments. It only diminishes them to bolster the impression that you are a rabid ideologue incapable of reasonable logic. That's too bad as some of your other arguments IMO are worth consideration.
'' not reasonable ... ideologue "
But you sure spend a lot of time reading my posts. As for "proving" anything, I have already provided links which conclusively prove the positions taken by anti zionist Jews. Over the years I have seen Orthodox scholars challenge other Jewish scholars on the merits of zionist ideology and how it conflicts with biblical teaching but the latter have been hesitant to accept such challenges. Too bad. It would be quite a treat to see zionists get verbally whipped in public. It would equally pleasing to see American zionist apologists like yourself embarrassed by those truths.
To suggest that anti zionist Jews are a small minority is absurd in view of the many hundreds of thousands of Jewish progressives who are openly sympathetic to Palestinians and other victimized groups. This is a point discussed before so that it need not be repeated.
Furthermore, if you can set aside your snobbery, let's bear in mind that none of that schitt that does on overseas is any of our godd@mn business. There simply is no excuse or justification for using our tax dollars to kill or to repress innocents abroad when we have so many problems going on at home. We continue to finance Israel's health care while denying it to the poor at home. To me, that's a political crime. The Constitution calls for disestablishment or what is commonly called separation of church and state. Israel is a self acknowledged religious state. As such, our federal dollars cannot legally be used to advance any religious institution whether that be a school, temple, or government. Therefore, the government is complicit in the crimes committed against Palestinians and others. This needs to end once and for all.
There simply is no excuse for Americans to send dollars overseas to Israel, Ukraine, or anywhere else. Our dollars belong here. Anything less is unpatriotic.
Quick question: are you Satmar or other Orthodox sect?
More importantly, what makes you an expert in sacred texts much less on God's will?
Or asked a little gentler, what makes you more knowledgeable than the millions of Jews who disagree with you and these interpretations?
No, you've not remotely come close to "proving" anything at all except your own ideological zealotry. But we already knew that, didn't we?
Can you provide a citation on the "hundreds of thousands" of "Jewish progressives". etc? Is being "openly sympathetic to Palestinians and other victimized groups" make one anti-zionist??? Does that mean I'm anti-zionist because I'm openly sympathetic to the plight of innocent Palestinian civilians? Which I am.
I don't think so.
I was wondering about the views of Jews regarding Israel, how they breakdown, knowing darn well this is not a monolithic group. Couldn't find much about these Jewish progressives" who are anti-zionist...but views do indeed vary as to degree of support, sense of connection, etc.
Here's some PEW research on the question:
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads ... on-israel/
Everything else I found also made pretty darn clear that the very few Jews who are actually anti-zionist are almost all Orthodox, mostly just the two groups we've discussed representing less than 6% of all Orthodox...themselves a minority of Jews.
But hey, surely there are
some other Jews who are anti-zionist as well...gotta be a couple here and there...
On your other arguments, they're interesting, though I disagree with your absolutist statements about what the Constitution allows or doesn't allow...clearly a whole heck of a lot of Constitutional scholars and SCOTUS Justices don't agree with you, but that's ok, you have a pattern of declaring absolute certainty of your views being superior to those of most anyone who is actually more expert than you. Par for the course.
I find your argument about American priorities at least more rational and I assume coming from a good place.