Conservative Ideology: A Big Lie

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Farfromgeneva
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Re: Conservative Ideology

Post by Farfromgeneva »

HooDat wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 4:50 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 3:26 pm I've written a whole lot about DeSantis on a thread ole Petey began
Coming off a "sabbatical" so I haven't seen your views.

In thinking about DeSantis, it will touch on my views about governors and my admitted bias toward state power over federal.

Below I throw out a few observations to add a little spice into the pot, see where it takes us.

1. I tend to think that humans thrive locally
2. I believe that one of the things that has made the USA a great country is that we have historically benefited from bottom up governance with (up to) 50 states trying different things and then the other states being able to emulate best practices.
3. Starting with Lincoln, accelerating under FDR & Johnson and gaining even more momentum since Bush (Sr) the federal government has had more and more influence over people's daily lives
4. During that time, Congress has "delegated" more and more of it's authority to the Executive branch resulting in a lot more top-down rather than bottom up governing.
5. An increased disparity in the distribution of income and wealth has coincided with the shift to the increase in centralized power and top-down governing.
6. I believe our country would benefit from state governors being as important as the POTUS particularly when it comes to domestic matters.
7. I also believe that since a major flaw in democracy is that those who get power, had to desire and seek out power - the federal government is not going to willingly give up the power it has collected to itself.
8. Therefore, if more decision making is going to shift back to the states, it is going to require strong governors.

9. Could a state's rights person's strong governor be a federally inclined person's strongman?

To the extent DeSantis is a strong governor and not a strongman - there is a part of me that (even if I determined he was the best politician I knew) would rather see him stay in Florida to continue to (appropriately) be a burr under the saddle of the power hungry in the federal government.
If you ever listen to podcasts I’d encourage you to listen to this one.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/e ... 0569518063

In my rotation it’s called Econtalk hosted by a Econ prof named Russ Robert’s (Brooklyn would hate him as he now works at Shalem, sp?, University in Israel). This shows guest is Nassim Taleb (Black Swan and other author, former trader and 3 PhDs in Econ, Math and Philosophy-type of guy who gets the natural physics of the world innately sitting under a Fig tree in Lebanon but with the technical backing of a lot of education)

Here’s the description of discussion:

A language, a flag, a national anthem and shared history—like a heart that has to pump harder to support a heavier body, the bigger a nation gets, the harder to curate an identity. Nassim Nicholas Taleb talks about scale and governance with EconTalk host Russ Roberts. Taleb sings the virtues of smaller relative to larger and decentralized as much as possible relative to centralized. Along the way, he provides a framework for Russia's war against Ukraine and explains why the United States has thrived despite its size and scope.
Same sword they knight you they gon' good night you with
Thats' only half if they like you
That ain't even the half what they might do
Don't believe me, ask Michael
See Martin, Malcolm
See Jesus, Judas; Caesar, Brutus
See success is like suicide
Farfromgeneva
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Re: Conservative Ideology

Post by Farfromgeneva »

HooDat wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 4:11 pm The stalking of the judge who issued the warrant is as reprehensible as the protests at the homes of SCOTUS earlier this year.

I know there are nut-jobs out there, but can you not say you don't like the FBI without it turning into "you're going to insight shooters"?

Vigilantes and mob justice are BAD. Doesn't matter what side of the aisle you are on. But when people were talking about Hoover's tenure as head of the FBI, no one said it was going to cause violent attacks on FBI personnel or offices.

I thought everybody was on board with hating the IRS, the FBI, and Cable/Phone companies? :?

Is there NOTHING we can agree on anymore? :lol:
Once a year we all come together!

Call me Silky

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fKIwj1TQmFs
Same sword they knight you they gon' good night you with
Thats' only half if they like you
That ain't even the half what they might do
Don't believe me, ask Michael
See Martin, Malcolm
See Jesus, Judas; Caesar, Brutus
See success is like suicide
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HooDat
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Re: Conservative Ideology

Post by HooDat »

Farfromgeneva wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 10:41 am If you ever listen to podcasts I’d encourage you to listen to this one.
I do, and I will. Sounds right up my alley.
STILL somewhere back in the day....

...and waiting/hoping for a tinfoil hat emoji......
a fan
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Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:05 pm

Re: Conservative Ideology

Post by a fan »

HooDat wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:25 am
Farfromgeneva wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 10:41 am If you ever listen to podcasts I’d encourage you to listen to this one.
I do, and I will. Sounds right up my alley.
Thanks for the suggestion, FFG, I'll give it a listen!
CU88
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Re: Conservative Ideology

Post by CU88 »

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MDlaxfan76
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Re: Conservative Ideology

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

CU88 wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:46 pm Bolton calling BS on MAGA host:

https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/stat ... 6788339718
downright comical if it wasn't so MAGA-deranged.

Eric Bolling, just another sexist idiot/grifter, so he and Trump got along famously.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Bolling
jhu72
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Re: Conservative Ideology

Post by jhu72 »

Hogan for President? Have not voted for him, but he has done a decent job for the State of Maryland. His biggest problem is his abortion stance, but he pledged prior to his assuming office he would not attempt to drive his preferred position in the State of Maryland. He largely honored his pledge (in recent months he has danced around that a little). He has been able to work, not totally, but acceptably with a legislature that can override him any time they want. He believes in the rule of law and the constitution. He is a real republican.
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a fan
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Re: Conservative Ideology

Post by a fan »

jhu72 wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:56 pm Hogan for President? Have not voted for him, but he has done a decent job for the State of Maryland. His biggest problem is his abortion stance, but he pledged prior to his assuming office he would not attempt to drive his preferred position in the State of Maryland. He largely honored his pledge (in recent months he has danced around that a little). He has been able to work, not totally, but acceptably with a legislature that can override him any time they want. He believes in the rule of law and the constitution. He is a real republican.
If he's a real Republican? I'd vote for him over Biden if for no other reason than to send a message to the Republican party that we'll vote for sane rational adults if you give us the chance. Completely serious.
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RedFromMI
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Re: Conservative Ideology

Post by RedFromMI »

The guy involved in the FBI attack was a former Navy submariner, according to the WaPo...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2 ... y-shiffer/
jhu72
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Re: Conservative Ideology

Post by jhu72 »

a fan wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:57 pm
jhu72 wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:56 pm Hogan for President? Have not voted for him, but he has done a decent job for the State of Maryland. His biggest problem is his abortion stance, but he pledged prior to his assuming office he would not attempt to drive his preferred position in the State of Maryland. He largely honored his pledge (in recent months he has danced around that a little). He has been able to work, not totally, but acceptably with a legislature that can override him any time they want. He believes in the rule of law and the constitution. He is a real republican.
If he's a real Republican? I'd vote for him over Biden if for no other reason than to send a message to the Republican party that we'll vote for sane rational adults if you give us the chance. Completely serious.
... I understand the logic of that position. Unless there is a total wipeout of the republICON asshats in 2022, real republicans will have no place in the party in 2024. He has said in the past he will not run as an independent.
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Seacoaster(1)
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Re: Conservative Ideology

Post by Seacoaster(1) »

a fan wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:57 pm
jhu72 wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:56 pm Hogan for President? Have not voted for him, but he has done a decent job for the State of Maryland. His biggest problem is his abortion stance, but he pledged prior to his assuming office he would not attempt to drive his preferred position in the State of Maryland. He largely honored his pledge (in recent months he has danced around that a little). He has been able to work, not totally, but acceptably with a legislature that can override him any time they want. He believes in the rule of law and the constitution. He is a real republican.
If he's a real Republican? I'd vote for him over Biden if for no other reason than to send a message to the Republican party that we'll vote for sane rational adults if you give us the chance. Completely serious.
Agreed; I could vote for Hogan. But GOP primary voters will never let him have the nomination. The party is trained to eat Red Meat.
CU88
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Re: Conservative Ideology

Post by CU88 »

Not sure if this has been verified, but if true it is heinously DEPLORABLE:

Donie O'Sullivan@donie

Trump's social media platform sent a push alert this afternoon to an article with an unredacted version of the search warrant that included the names of two FBI agents.

Those agents' names are now circulating on pro-Trump social media and are being villainized.

6:55 PM · Aug 12, 2022·Twitter Web App
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RedFromMI
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Re: Conservative Ideology

Post by RedFromMI »

CU88
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Re: Conservative Ideology

Post by CU88 »

Farfromgeneva wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 10:42 am
HooDat wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 4:11 pm The stalking of the judge who issued the warrant is as reprehensible as the protests at the homes of SCOTUS earlier this year.

I know there are nut-jobs out there, but can you not say you don't like the FBI without it turning into "you're going to insight shooters"?

Vigilantes and mob justice are BAD. Doesn't matter what side of the aisle you are on. But when people were talking about Hoover's tenure as head of the FBI, no one said it was going to cause violent attacks on FBI personnel or offices.

I thought everybody was on board with hating the IRS, the FBI, and Cable/Phone companies? :?

Is there NOTHING we can agree on anymore? :lol:
Once a year we all come together!

Call me Silky

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fKIwj1TQmFs
Boy George!


LOL
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 22324
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: Conservative Ideology

Post by Farfromgeneva »

RedFromMI wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 8:32 am
I had trouble with your first link, so here is a corrected one:

https://www.denverpost.com/2022/08/12/l ... calls-911/
No charges is BS. What trash.

Whenever I hear Boebert or MTG all I can think of is this

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gId2HsHvSgs
Same sword they knight you they gon' good night you with
Thats' only half if they like you
That ain't even the half what they might do
Don't believe me, ask Michael
See Martin, Malcolm
See Jesus, Judas; Caesar, Brutus
See success is like suicide
PizzaSnake
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Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:36 pm

Re: Conservative Ideology

Post by PizzaSnake »

“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect." -- Frank Wilhoit
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
Farfromgeneva
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Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: Conservative Ideology

Post by Farfromgeneva »

PizzaSnake wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 12:35 pm “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect." -- Frank Wilhoit
In theory that could be fine if we establish it as a friction or loss in the system, I.e. free riders. So if conservatism were to uphold principles in their most basic form without complexity, overly articulated and verbose codified laws of a system we collectively felt was best then yes, conservatism would protect the free riders in order to support the goals and expected outcomes of the broader system and that would be ok: it’s the layered rules and complexity that makes conservatism problematic.

But the point is taken and why I’m fine with politicians and regulatory agencies doing less. Every action taken implicitly (and sometimes explicitly) favors one class over another and it’s rarely discussed in terms of “do we want this tradeoff”? but rather only don’t you care about the class I’m supporting????
Same sword they knight you they gon' good night you with
Thats' only half if they like you
That ain't even the half what they might do
Don't believe me, ask Michael
See Martin, Malcolm
See Jesus, Judas; Caesar, Brutus
See success is like suicide
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 22324
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: Conservative Ideology

Post by Farfromgeneva »

CU88 wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 8:37 am
Farfromgeneva wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 10:42 am
HooDat wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 4:11 pm The stalking of the judge who issued the warrant is as reprehensible as the protests at the homes of SCOTUS earlier this year.

I know there are nut-jobs out there, but can you not say you don't like the FBI without it turning into "you're going to insight shooters"?

Vigilantes and mob justice are BAD. Doesn't matter what side of the aisle you are on. But when people were talking about Hoover's tenure as head of the FBI, no one said it was going to cause violent attacks on FBI personnel or offices.

I thought everybody was on board with hating the IRS, the FBI, and Cable/Phone companies? :?

Is there NOTHING we can agree on anymore? :lol:
Once a year we all come together!

Call me Silky

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fKIwj1TQmFs
Boy George!


LOL
How does she pee?
Same sword they knight you they gon' good night you with
Thats' only half if they like you
That ain't even the half what they might do
Don't believe me, ask Michael
See Martin, Malcolm
See Jesus, Judas; Caesar, Brutus
See success is like suicide
User avatar
HooDat
Posts: 2372
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:26 pm

Re: Conservative Ideology

Post by HooDat »

Farfromgeneva wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 12:55 pm But the point is taken and why I’m fine with politicians and regulatory agencies doing less. Every action taken implicitly (and sometimes explicitly) favors one class over another and it’s rarely discussed in terms of “do we want this tradeoff”? but rather only don’t you care about the class I’m supporting????
this is exactly where our government (and really most institutions) fall short. Every single decision has trade-off. Systems are complex. Actions have direct and indirect consequences.
STILL somewhere back in the day....

...and waiting/hoping for a tinfoil hat emoji......
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