All Things Environment

The odds are excellent that you will leave this forum hating someone.
ardilla secreta
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Re: All Things Environment

Post by ardilla secreta »

youthathletics wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:42 pm Maybe we should be allowed to collect rain water.
Where are we not allowed?

Arizona allows for rainwater collection from your own property. A 1,000 sqft roof with 10” of annual rain can collect 6,000 gallons according to U of A. I wonder how many in Arizona have rain collection systems.
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youthathletics
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Re: All Things Environment

Post by youthathletics »

Potable water
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
PizzaSnake
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Re: All Things Environment

Post by PizzaSnake »

youthathletics wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:28 am Potable water
Most household water usage doesn’t require potable.

People who move to desert climes should adapt water consumption, not try and bend nature to their will.

Don’t like the reality of living in a desert, don’t move there. Or does embracing reality make me “un-American” and less than “great”?
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
ardilla secreta
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Re: All Things Environment

Post by ardilla secreta »

My friend and wife retired in Tucson 2 years ago after living in LA since the 70’s. While their home has appreciated in that time he is absolutely miserable as he has asthma and sinus issues. Besides the heat, it’s now very difficult to spend any time outdoors.

The desert used to be the place to go for such ailments, but now it’s misery because over time people installed plants that weren’t native and flooded them with water. Toss in the venomous snakes, lizards and toads with scorpions, tarantulas, coyotes and squadrons of javelinas and it sounds like paradise.
PizzaSnake
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Re: All Things Environment

Post by PizzaSnake »

ardilla secreta wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 11:53 am My friend and wife retired in Tucson 2 years ago after living in LA since the 70’s. While their home has appreciated in that time he is absolutely miserable as he has asthma and sinus issues. Besides the heat, it’s now very difficult to spend any time outdoors.

The desert used to be the place to go for such ailments, but now it’s misery because over time people installed plants that weren’t native and flooded them with water. Toss in the venomous snakes, lizards and toads with scorpions, tarantulas, coyotes and squadrons of javelinas and it sounds like paradise.
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
DocBarrister
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Human-Caused Climate Change is an Established, Irrefutable Fact …

Post by DocBarrister »

… and it is causing havoc all around the world.

The consequences of human-caused climate change are no longer theoretical, they are here.

It's not just the Rhine. Around the world, rivers that support global growth — the Yangtze, the Danube and the Colorado — are drying up, impeding the movement of goods, messing with irrigation systems and making it harder for power plants and factories to stay cool.

At the same time, scorching heat is hampering transportation networks, straining power supply and hurting worker productivity.

"We shouldn't be surprised by the heat wave events," said Bob Ward, policy and communications director at the London School of Economics' Grantham Research Institute on Climate Change and the Environment. "They're exactly what we predicted and are part of a trend: more frequent, more intense, all over the world."

China is facing its fiercest heat wave in six decades, with temperatures crossing 40 degrees Celsius (104 degrees Fahrenheit) in dozens of cities. Parts of California could see temperatures as high as 109 degrees Fahrenheit this week. Earlier this summer, temperatures topped 40 degrees Celsius in the United Kingdom for the first time ever.


https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/08/18/busi ... index.html

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PizzaSnake
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Re: All Things Environment

Post by PizzaSnake »

These fnckers are the reason for government.

“Inspectors also told the mining board that they had tried to visit the property earlier in the year after a citizen complaint, but were turned away by the owners. They got an administrative search warrant from a Jefferson County judge to return to the property in July, with the sheriff’s department. ”

“In a 22-page report from a July visit noting multiple alleged violations, state inspectors listed tanks with thousands of gallons of cyanide solution sitting above a concrete berm that could not enclose potential spills. Inspectors said the uncontained chemicals are a hazard to spill or leak into nearby watersheds and threaten the public and environment.

Regulators blasted the facility for a lack of emergency plans to prevent or halt a leak of dangerous chemicals. The facility is near homes and businesses off Coal Creek Canyon Road.

“The Division did not observe spill containment equipment or products, ventilation hoods, first-aid stations, eye-wash stations, or emergency showers at the Hwy 72 Mill site which would be standard safety measures in a permitted and regulated mill facility of this sort,” according to the inspection report. “Additionally, there was no secondary containment for any of the equipment or chemicals stored within the main building. A loss of process solution within the main building had the potential to flow out of the building and/or possibly into existing floor drains.”

https://coloradosun.com/2022/08/18/colo ... n=SUNRISER
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
ardilla secreta
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Re: All Things Environment

Post by ardilla secreta »

PizzaSnake wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:47 pm These fnckers are the reason for government.

“Inspectors also told the mining board that they had tried to visit the property earlier in the year after a citizen complaint, but were turned away by the owners. They got an administrative search warrant from a Jefferson County judge to return to the property in July, with the sheriff’s department. ”

“In a 22-page report from a July visit noting multiple alleged violations, state inspectors listed tanks with thousands of gallons of cyanide solution sitting above a concrete berm that could not enclose potential spills. Inspectors said the uncontained chemicals are a hazard to spill or leak into nearby watersheds and threaten the public and environment.

Regulators blasted the facility for a lack of emergency plans to prevent or halt a leak of dangerous chemicals. The facility is near homes and businesses off Coal Creek Canyon Road.

“The Division did not observe spill containment equipment or products, ventilation hoods, first-aid stations, eye-wash stations, or emergency showers at the Hwy 72 Mill site which would be standard safety measures in a permitted and regulated mill facility of this sort,” according to the inspection report. “Additionally, there was no secondary containment for any of the equipment or chemicals stored within the main building. A loss of process solution within the main building had the potential to flow out of the building and/or possibly into existing floor drains.”

https://coloradosun.com/2022/08/18/colo ... n=SUNRISER
On the positive side, the facility is now located near Clean Coal Creek Canyon Rd.
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NattyBohChamps04
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Re: All Things Environment

Post by NattyBohChamps04 »

PizzaSnake wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:47 pm These fnckers are the reason for government.

“Inspectors also told the mining board that they had tried to visit the property earlier in the year after a citizen complaint, but were turned away by the owners. They got an administrative search warrant from a Jefferson County judge to return to the property in July, with the sheriff’s department. ”

“In a 22-page report from a July visit noting multiple alleged violations, state inspectors listed tanks with thousands of gallons of cyanide solution sitting above a concrete berm that could not enclose potential spills. Inspectors said the uncontained chemicals are a hazard to spill or leak into nearby watersheds and threaten the public and environment.

Regulators blasted the facility for a lack of emergency plans to prevent or halt a leak of dangerous chemicals. The facility is near homes and businesses off Coal Creek Canyon Road.

“The Division did not observe spill containment equipment or products, ventilation hoods, first-aid stations, eye-wash stations, or emergency showers at the Hwy 72 Mill site which would be standard safety measures in a permitted and regulated mill facility of this sort,” according to the inspection report. “Additionally, there was no secondary containment for any of the equipment or chemicals stored within the main building. A loss of process solution within the main building had the potential to flow out of the building and/or possibly into existing floor drains.”

https://coloradosun.com/2022/08/18/colo ... n=SUNRISER
What's the big deal? If you simply slash the budget of the regulatory agency, they will find fewer companies violating safety regs. It's a win-win.
DocBarrister
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Re: All Things Environment

Post by DocBarrister »

NattyBohChamps04 wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:27 pm
PizzaSnake wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:47 pm These fnckers are the reason for government.

“Inspectors also told the mining board that they had tried to visit the property earlier in the year after a citizen complaint, but were turned away by the owners. They got an administrative search warrant from a Jefferson County judge to return to the property in July, with the sheriff’s department. ”

“In a 22-page report from a July visit noting multiple alleged violations, state inspectors listed tanks with thousands of gallons of cyanide solution sitting above a concrete berm that could not enclose potential spills. Inspectors said the uncontained chemicals are a hazard to spill or leak into nearby watersheds and threaten the public and environment.

Regulators blasted the facility for a lack of emergency plans to prevent or halt a leak of dangerous chemicals. The facility is near homes and businesses off Coal Creek Canyon Road.

“The Division did not observe spill containment equipment or products, ventilation hoods, first-aid stations, eye-wash stations, or emergency showers at the Hwy 72 Mill site which would be standard safety measures in a permitted and regulated mill facility of this sort,” according to the inspection report. “Additionally, there was no secondary containment for any of the equipment or chemicals stored within the main building. A loss of process solution within the main building had the potential to flow out of the building and/or possibly into existing floor drains.”

https://coloradosun.com/2022/08/18/colo ... n=SUNRISER
What's the big deal? If you simply slash the budget of the regulatory agency, they will find fewer companies violating safety regs. It's a win-win.
This is absolutely correct.

Analogous to the Covid-19 pandemic. If you don’t test people for Covid-19, you will detect fewer cases of Covid-19. Then when people with Covid-19 die, don’t test their corpses for Covid-19. You can then report fewer cases of Covid-19. It’s win-win for everyone except those who caught Covid-19, died, and are now corpses. But corpses don’t complain or vote, so … still win-win.

Call this the DeSantis approach to governing.

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jhu72
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Re: All Things Environment

Post by jhu72 »

Water is going to be a problem for a while. Rivers are down, glaciers disappearing. The infrastructure that carries water to homes is old and decaying causing problems of its own. Ask the residents of any older big city.

The good news is, rainfall is increasing, but not necessarily where we need it. The bad news is, rainfall and ground water is more contaminated then ever. There are over 10,000 varieties of PFAS compounds loose in the environment, captured and falling in the rain and not filtered out of drinking water. PFAS compounds and as a result rainwater and groundwater are now poisonous to the fauna of the planet (that includes us). PFAS compounds are also known as "forever chemicals" given the strength of their chemical bonds. Once created they are not naturally broken down and generally require the supply of significant chemical energy to decompose them into something harmless. PFAS compounds cause problems for all the organ systems in the body, research has found. We got to this point because PFAS compounds have been very under-regulated. Their harmful properties were initially unrecognized. Experience has shown them to be far more dangerous than originally thought.

Many industries make use of these chemicals, no stick cookware, food packaging, thin lite weight water bottles that won't decompose when holding water, industrial protective coatings, water resistant clothing / fabrics, cosmetics, etc.

The good news is compounds that are safer than PFASes have been found that can replace the PFASes and are cheap. So a lot of the PFAS usage has already vanished or will shortly. We are however left with a legacy problem in the atmosphere and environment, that until recent months looked an impossible problem. Scientists have identified a low cost chemical reaction / chemical treatment using sodium hydroxide that will cause the decomposition of about 4900 of these chemicals which contain Florine as a major component. Unfortunately no industrial level decontamination process has been demonstrated as yet. The work on finding a mechanism to render the other 5000 + compounds harmless goes on.

Don't worry, this is just another democrat hoax.

As Hoodat commented, we have not been a very good steward of the planet.
Image STAND AGAINST FASCISM
PizzaSnake
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Re: All Things Environment

Post by PizzaSnake »

jhu72 wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 5:08 pm Water is going to be a problem for a while. Rivers are down, glaciers disappearing. The infrastructure that carries water to homes is old and decaying causing problems of its own. Ask the residents of any older big city.

The good news is, rainfall is increasing, but not necessarily where we need it. The bad news is, rainfall and ground water is more contaminated then ever. There are over 10,000 varieties of PFAS compounds loose in the environment, captured and falling in the rain and not filtered out of drinking water. PFAS compounds and as a result rainwater and groundwater are now poisonous to the fauna of the planet (that includes us). PFAS compounds are also known as "forever chemicals" given the strength of their chemical bonds. Once created they are not naturally broken down and generally require the supply of significant chemical energy to decompose them into something harmless. PFAS compounds cause problems for all the organ systems in the body, research has found. We got to this point because PFAS compounds have been very under-regulated. Their harmful properties were initially unrecognized. Experience has shown them to be far more dangerous than originally thought.

Many industries make use of these chemicals, no stick cookware, food packaging, thin lite weight water bottles that won't decompose when holding water, industrial protective coatings, water resistant clothing / fabrics, cosmetics, etc.

The good news is compounds that are safer than PFASes have been found that can replace the PFASes and are cheap. So a lot of the PFAS usage has already vanished or will shortly. We are however left with a legacy problem in the atmosphere and environment, that until recent months looked an impossible problem. Scientists have identified a low cost chemical reaction / chemical treatment using sodium hydroxide that will cause the decomposition of about 4900 of these chemicals which contain Florine as a major component. Unfortunately no industrial level decontamination process has been demonstrated as yet. The work on finding a mechanism to render the other 5000 + compounds harmless goes on.

Don't worry, this is just another democrat hoax.

As Hoodat commented, we have not been a very good steward of the planet.
Not to put too fine a point on it, humans are fncked. But good.

The Children of Oil will succumb to its tender ministrations.
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
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cradleandshoot
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Re: All Things Environment

Post by cradleandshoot »

ttps://www.drroyspencer.com/category/blogarticle/

Some more good stuff from Dr Spencer to hand out a case of agita to Dr Wizard and his disciples of DOOM. :D

https://www.essoar.org/doi/abs/10.1002/ ... 10512112.1

"This last finding will surely be controversial, because it could mean CO2 in the atmosphere will not rise as much as global carbon cycle modelers say it will. So, I am posting the model and the datasets used along with the paper preprint at ENSO Impact on the Declining CO2 Sink Rate | Earth and Space Science Open Archive (essoar.org). The analysis is quite simple and I believe defensible. The 2019 paper that got -0.54% per year decline in the sink rate uses complex statistical gymnastics, with a professional statistician as a primary author. My analysis is much simpler, easier to understand, and (I believe) at least as defensible."

Let the DEBUNKERS have at it... :D
I use to be a people person until people ruined that for me.
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cradleandshoot
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Re: All Things Environment

Post by cradleandshoot »

PizzaSnake wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 8:49 pm
jhu72 wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 5:08 pm Water is going to be a problem for a while. Rivers are down, glaciers disappearing. The infrastructure that carries water to homes is old and decaying causing problems of its own. Ask the residents of any older big city.

The good news is, rainfall is increasing, but not necessarily where we need it. The bad news is, rainfall and ground water is more contaminated then ever. There are over 10,000 varieties of PFAS compounds loose in the environment, captured and falling in the rain and not filtered out of drinking water. PFAS compounds and as a result rainwater and groundwater are now poisonous to the fauna of the planet (that includes us). PFAS compounds are also known as "forever chemicals" given the strength of their chemical bonds. Once created they are not naturally broken down and generally require the supply of significant chemical energy to decompose them into something harmless. PFAS compounds cause problems for all the organ systems in the body, research has found. We got to this point because PFAS compounds have been very under-regulated. Their harmful properties were initially unrecognized. Experience has shown them to be far more dangerous than originally thought.

Many industries make use of these chemicals, no stick cookware, food packaging, thin lite weight water bottles that won't decompose when holding water, industrial protective coatings, water resistant clothing / fabrics, cosmetics, etc.

The good news is compounds that are safer than PFASes have been found that can replace the PFASes and are cheap. So a lot of the PFAS usage has already vanished or will shortly. We are however left with a legacy problem in the atmosphere and environment, that until recent months looked an impossible problem. Scientists have identified a low cost chemical reaction / chemical treatment using sodium hydroxide that will cause the decomposition of about 4900 of these chemicals which contain Florine as a major component. Unfortunately no industrial level decontamination process has been demonstrated as yet. The work on finding a mechanism to render the other 5000 + compounds harmless goes on.

Don't worry, this is just another democrat hoax.

As Hoodat commented, we have not been a very good steward of the planet.
Not to put too fine a point on it, humans are fncked. But good.

The Children of Oil will succumb to its tender ministrations.
In case you didn't realize your "children of oil" bullchit made possible for you to post on this forum. Where do you think the computer your clickety clacking on came from??? DUMBASS!!!!! Unless your computer is 100% vegan and plant based. Honestly sometimes the debate with you people is like having a battle of wits with an unarmed opponents.... :roll:

https://www.plasticsusa.com/what-is-pla ... come-from/

" In most cases, plastics are derived from by-products of natural gas or crude oil"

keep clickety clacking you fellow "child of oil" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I use to be a people person until people ruined that for me.
PizzaSnake
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Re: All Things Environment

Post by PizzaSnake »

cradleandshoot wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 10:37 am
PizzaSnake wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 8:49 pm
jhu72 wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 5:08 pm Water is going to be a problem for a while. Rivers are down, glaciers disappearing. The infrastructure that carries water to homes is old and decaying causing problems of its own. Ask the residents of any older big city.

The good news is, rainfall is increasing, but not necessarily where we need it. The bad news is, rainfall and ground water is more contaminated then ever. There are over 10,000 varieties of PFAS compounds loose in the environment, captured and falling in the rain and not filtered out of drinking water. PFAS compounds and as a result rainwater and groundwater are now poisonous to the fauna of the planet (that includes us). PFAS compounds are also known as "forever chemicals" given the strength of their chemical bonds. Once created they are not naturally broken down and generally require the supply of significant chemical energy to decompose them into something harmless. PFAS compounds cause problems for all the organ systems in the body, research has found. We got to this point because PFAS compounds have been very under-regulated. Their harmful properties were initially unrecognized. Experience has shown them to be far more dangerous than originally thought.

Many industries make use of these chemicals, no stick cookware, food packaging, thin lite weight water bottles that won't decompose when holding water, industrial protective coatings, water resistant clothing / fabrics, cosmetics, etc.

The good news is compounds that are safer than PFASes have been found that can replace the PFASes and are cheap. So a lot of the PFAS usage has already vanished or will shortly. We are however left with a legacy problem in the atmosphere and environment, that until recent months looked an impossible problem. Scientists have identified a low cost chemical reaction / chemical treatment using sodium hydroxide that will cause the decomposition of about 4900 of these chemicals which contain Florine as a major component. Unfortunately no industrial level decontamination process has been demonstrated as yet. The work on finding a mechanism to render the other 5000 + compounds harmless goes on.

Don't worry, this is just another democrat hoax.

As Hoodat commented, we have not been a very good steward of the planet.
Not to put too fine a point on it, humans are fncked. But good.

The Children of Oil will succumb to its tender ministrations.
In case you didn't realize your "children of oil" bullchit made possible for you to post on this forum. Where do you think the computer your clickety clacking on came from??? DUMBASS!!!!! Unless your computer is 100% vegan and plant based. Honestly sometimes the debate with you people is like having a battle of wits with an unarmed opponents.... :roll:

https://www.plasticsusa.com/what-is-pla ... come-from/

" In most cases, plastics are derived from by-products of natural gas or crude oil"

keep clickety clacking you fellow "child of oil" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Strike a nerve, did I?
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
PizzaSnake
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Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:36 pm

Re: All Things Environment

Post by PizzaSnake »

A twofer. Notice the ethnicity of the deceased? And if they don’t die, CKD isn’t far away.

“Mr. Bell, 45, was hospitalized for heat exposure and renal failure after working his route on a 103-degree day in July.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/20/busi ... eaths.html
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
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youthathletics
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Re: All Things Environment

Post by youthathletics »

PizzaSnake wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 8:37 pm A twofer. Notice the ethnicity of the deceased? And if they don’t die, CKD isn’t far away.

“Mr. Bell, 45, was hospitalized for heat exposure and renal failure after working his route on a 103-degree day in July.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/20/busi ... eaths.html
There is a Twitter thread of UPS drivers showing the temp inside their trucks. Many are upwards of 107+
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
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cradleandshoot
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Re: All Things Environment

Post by cradleandshoot »

PizzaSnake wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 11:36 am
cradleandshoot wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 10:37 am
PizzaSnake wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 8:49 pm
jhu72 wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 5:08 pm Water is going to be a problem for a while. Rivers are down, glaciers disappearing. The infrastructure that carries water to homes is old and decaying causing problems of its own. Ask the residents of any older big city.

The good news is, rainfall is increasing, but not necessarily where we need it. The bad news is, rainfall and ground water is more contaminated then ever. There are over 10,000 varieties of PFAS compounds loose in the environment, captured and falling in the rain and not filtered out of drinking water. PFAS compounds and as a result rainwater and groundwater are now poisonous to the fauna of the planet (that includes us). PFAS compounds are also known as "forever chemicals" given the strength of their chemical bonds. Once created they are not naturally broken down and generally require the supply of significant chemical energy to decompose them into something harmless. PFAS compounds cause problems for all the organ systems in the body, research has found. We got to this point because PFAS compounds have been very under-regulated. Their harmful properties were initially unrecognized. Experience has shown them to be far more dangerous than originally thought.

Many industries make use of these chemicals, no stick cookware, food packaging, thin lite weight water bottles that won't decompose when holding water, industrial protective coatings, water resistant clothing / fabrics, cosmetics, etc.

The good news is compounds that are safer than PFASes have been found that can replace the PFASes and are cheap. So a lot of the PFAS usage has already vanished or will shortly. We are however left with a legacy problem in the atmosphere and environment, that until recent months looked an impossible problem. Scientists have identified a low cost chemical reaction / chemical treatment using sodium hydroxide that will cause the decomposition of about 4900 of these chemicals which contain Florine as a major component. Unfortunately no industrial level decontamination process has been demonstrated as yet. The work on finding a mechanism to render the other 5000 + compounds harmless goes on.

Don't worry, this is just another democrat hoax.

As Hoodat commented, we have not been a very good steward of the planet.
Not to put too fine a point on it, humans are fncked. But good.

The Children of Oil will succumb to its tender ministrations.
In case you didn't realize your "children of oil" bullchit made possible for you to post on this forum. Where do you think the computer your clickety clacking on came from??? DUMBASS!!!!! Unless your computer is 100% vegan and plant based. Honestly sometimes the debate with you people is like having a battle of wits with an unarmed opponents.... :roll:

https://www.plasticsusa.com/what-is-pla ... come-from/

" In most cases, plastics are derived from by-products of natural gas or crude oil"

keep clickety clacking you fellow "child of oil" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Strike a nerve, did I?
Just the facts. If your going to stand up on your ivory tower and make blustering statements someone should point out to you that your also a "child of oil" matter of fact we all are.
I use to be a people person until people ruined that for me.
PizzaSnake
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Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:36 pm

Re: All Things Environment

Post by PizzaSnake »

cradleandshoot wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 5:48 am
PizzaSnake wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 11:36 am
cradleandshoot wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 10:37 am
PizzaSnake wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 8:49 pm
jhu72 wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 5:08 pm Water is going to be a problem for a while. Rivers are down, glaciers disappearing. The infrastructure that carries water to homes is old and decaying causing problems of its own. Ask the residents of any older big city.

The good news is, rainfall is increasing, but not necessarily where we need it. The bad news is, rainfall and ground water is more contaminated then ever. There are over 10,000 varieties of PFAS compounds loose in the environment, captured and falling in the rain and not filtered out of drinking water. PFAS compounds and as a result rainwater and groundwater are now poisonous to the fauna of the planet (that includes us). PFAS compounds are also known as "forever chemicals" given the strength of their chemical bonds. Once created they are not naturally broken down and generally require the supply of significant chemical energy to decompose them into something harmless. PFAS compounds cause problems for all the organ systems in the body, research has found. We got to this point because PFAS compounds have been very under-regulated. Their harmful properties were initially unrecognized. Experience has shown them to be far more dangerous than originally thought.

Many industries make use of these chemicals, no stick cookware, food packaging, thin lite weight water bottles that won't decompose when holding water, industrial protective coatings, water resistant clothing / fabrics, cosmetics, etc.

The good news is compounds that are safer than PFASes have been found that can replace the PFASes and are cheap. So a lot of the PFAS usage has already vanished or will shortly. We are however left with a legacy problem in the atmosphere and environment, that until recent months looked an impossible problem. Scientists have identified a low cost chemical reaction / chemical treatment using sodium hydroxide that will cause the decomposition of about 4900 of these chemicals which contain Florine as a major component. Unfortunately no industrial level decontamination process has been demonstrated as yet. The work on finding a mechanism to render the other 5000 + compounds harmless goes on.

Don't worry, this is just another democrat hoax.

As Hoodat commented, we have not been a very good steward of the planet.
Not to put too fine a point on it, humans are fncked. But good.

The Children of Oil will succumb to its tender ministrations.
In case you didn't realize your "children of oil" bullchit made possible for you to post on this forum. Where do you think the computer your clickety clacking on came from??? DUMBASS!!!!! Unless your computer is 100% vegan and plant based. Honestly sometimes the debate with you people is like having a battle of wits with an unarmed opponents.... :roll:

https://www.plasticsusa.com/what-is-pla ... come-from/

" In most cases, plastics are derived from by-products of natural gas or crude oil"

keep clickety clacking you fellow "child of oil" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Strike a nerve, did I?
Just the facts. If your going to stand up on your ivory tower and make blustering statements someone should point out to you that your also a "child of oil" matter of fact we all are.
Didn’t say I wasn’t. It is my, uh, birthright.

Why do you see exclusive attacks when there are none? Reflecting on that may bring you some peace.
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 22248
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: All Things Environment

Post by Farfromgeneva »

I don’t know enough about it but am fascinated by these efforts to deep sea mine.

Deep-Sea Mining Is Close to Reality Despite Environmental Concerns

The ocean floor contains a trove of metals that can be used in making batteries for electric vehicles

Yusuf KhanUpdated Aug. 22, 2022 6:03 am ET

Deep-sea miners scrape the ocean floor for polymetallic nodules, pieces of rock that contain iron and manganese oxide layers.
Photo: gsr/Reuters
Companies could start mining the ocean floor for metals used to make electric-vehicle batteries within the next year, a development that could occur despite broad concerns about the environmental impact of deep-sea mining.

The International Seabed Authority, a United Nations observer organization that regulates deep-sea mining in international waters, is drawing up a final regulatory framework for deep-sea mining that all 168 members would need to agree to within the next 12 months. The U.S. isn’t a member of the ISA. With or without the finalized rules, the ISA will permit seabed mining by July 2023, according to people familiar with the matter.

The intent of deep-sea mining is to scrape the ocean floor for polymetallic nodules—tennis-ball-size pieces of rock that contain iron and manganese oxide layers. A seabed in the Pacific Ocean called the Clarion Clipperton Zone, which cover 1.7 million square miles between Mexico and Hawaii, contains a high volume of nodules made of battery metals, such as cobalt, manganese and lithium. The International Seabed Authority in 2010 estimated the zone had roughly 30 billion metric tons of nodules.

Cobalt and other metals used in making rechargeable batteries that power products from phones to electric vehicles are in high demand, setting off a race to find and procure them. Prices of these metals are soaring as mining for them comes under scrutiny, curtailing supply.

Since the ISA was formed in 1994, the agency has facilitated testing and exploration of the ocean bottom. It has licensed 22 contractors to explore the deep sea with a focus on scientific exploration, though some of the licenses went to units of global companies, including Lockheed Martin Corp. and DEME Group NV. In June 2021, the Pacific island nation the Republic of Nauru and startup Metals Co. applied to the ISA to mine in the Clarion Clipperton Zone, triggering a rule that required the agency to establish a code that would allow “exploitation” for deep-sea resources within two years.

It is unclear if there will be a market for deep-sea mined metals. Auto makers, such as Groupe Renault, Bayerische Motoren Werke AG and Volkswagen AG , have signed a moratorium effort led by Greenpeace agreeing not to buy cobalt sourced from seabed mining.

Other similar protests from civil-society groups such as the Deep Sea Conservation Coalition have also called for a halt while the European Union has advocated for prohibiting deep-sea mining until “scientific gaps are properly filled.”

Some Pacific island communities with a large span of territorial waters in proportion with their land mass, however, believe there is a sustainable way to mine these minerals and provide a steady source of revenue for their economies.

The Cook Islands, for instance, an island nation 2,000 miles from the coast of New Zealand and located south of the Clarion Clipperton Zone, is among the few countries already exploring the idea of scraping the ocean bottom for metals, intent on using the resources to boost its economic health. The Cook Islands, with a population of 17,000 people, is a member of the ISA but in theory its territorial waters sit outside of the authority’s jurisdiction.

“We’ve known about these nodules for decades and we’ve known about this potential,” said Alex Herman, Seabed Minerals Commissioner for the Cook Islands Seabed Minerals Authority. “We want to be able to realize the potential [of the nodules], but we want to realize it our way.”

The Cook Islands economic zone is estimated to contain 12 billion tons of nodules especially rich in cobalt.

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Earlier this year, the nation handed out three exploration licenses to private companies—CIC Ltd., CIIC Seabed Resources Ltd. in a joint venture with Belgium’s Global Sea Mineral Resources NV, and Moana Minerals Inc.—to explore the seabed within its territorial waters and determine the feasibility of sustainable mining over the next five years. The exploration alone is expected to raise NZ$200 million, equivalent to $128 million, over the five-year period, which Ms. Herman described as “huge” for a developing nation.

Ms. Herman said it was important the companies understood the island nation’s values to ensure confidence that licensees “could develop the sector without serious harm to the marine environment and with benefits to the owners of those minerals, which is our people,” Ms Herman said, adding “the onus is on them to demonstrate that.”

The Cook Islands had previously relied heavily on tourism to fuel its economy, which like most nations in the region, was heavily decimated by the pandemic. Tourism accounted for about 65% of the nation’s nominal GDP prior to the pandemic, according to the Cook Islands Statistics Office.

Tonga, the Republic of Kiribati and Nauru are other South Pacific countries that support mining.

Palau, another Pacific island nation, announced its opposition to deep-sea mining in June, months after the Cook Islands’ move, calling for a moratorium on the issue, warning about the damage to marine environments and “threatening one of the world’s largest carbon sinks.”

Other island nations, including Fiji and Vanuatu, have previously voiced opposition as well.

For now, the ISA is firm in saying that “deep-seabed mining will not start until the necessary regulatory framework is in place.” The rules are intended to protect the integrity of ocean life while allowing commercial use, the ISA says.

Many members, environmental organizations and lawyers familiar with the regulations say that in theory a pending application, such as the one from Nauru and Metals Co., can be approved even in the absence of finalized regulations. Companies and nonprofits suggest that the ISA is being forced to confirm deep-sea mining rules, spelling out what is and isn’t allowed, after more than 20 years of discussion on the issue.

“If you structure this right you provide the right kind of incentives for companies to innovate and that’s really what needs to happen,” Duncan Wood, vice president for strategy and new initiatives at the Washington-based Wilson Center.

“That’s why regulation is there is to try to minimize harm, increase efficiency and to try to make the market work better and corporations respond by being innovative,” Mr. Wood added.

Write to Yusuf Khan at [email protected]
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