Hillary 2024?

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MDlaxfan76
Posts: 25748
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:40 pm

Re: Hillary 2024?

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

youthathletics wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:51 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:22 am
youthathletics wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:26 pm
seacoaster wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:56 pm
youthathletics wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:29 pm
CU88 wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:24 pm Hogan has as much chance of winning GOP POTUS nomination in 2024 as does HRC.
Actually I disagree, with the caveat that he is taken seriously. His record and popularity (with dems) in this deep blue state speaks volumes and he could certainly be that bridge back to normalcy.
I think you are missing 88's point. He's saying Hogan could not get through a GOP primary season. I agree; the primary system weeds out guys like Hogan. Someone has to have the balls to break away.
I understood it. which was my caveat. The big IF, is will the GOP take advantage of using an opportunity for a center person like Hogan. I'll explain. If the GOP takes a loss for the majority fight this midterm, in places where those in the fight are pro-trump, they have their direction for 2024 and Hogan fits that mold; he's a bit like a Kasich (who I voted for BTW) but with more love from the democratic side. Alternatively, if the R's take over the majority in 2022, with contested battles by people not in Trumps corner....the same applies. My guess and hope, is that the current McCarthy jock sniffers will slowly begin to back away.

This is also why I suggested earlier that we need a pivot in the right direction for employment, economy, and no war, much like during the 2016-2020. All people really want is safety, a job, and to be left alone, the more you interfere with those 3 things (even if you are not responsible), the more people want something new and shiny.
I agree with 90% of your reasoning and preferences except that I see the GOP going the opposite direction from Hogan...now, you did set up the hypothesis that, having gone all-in for Trump and the Big Lie, IF the GOP lost in the midterms, new ball game.
Stop the damned presses, this here is a momentous occasion, one for the ages.....MD agreed, well, almost, but I'll take it. :lol:
Actually, I suspect we agree on a whole lot of things, share a lot of fundamental values!
Eg we both voted for Kasich, and we have lots of common views about lacrosse...and family...and...

We just focus on the differences in views on these pages.

Probably a good reminder...
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youthathletics
Posts: 14437
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:36 pm

Re: Hillary 2024?

Post by youthathletics »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:33 pm
youthathletics wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:51 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:22 am
youthathletics wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:26 pm
seacoaster wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:56 pm
youthathletics wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:29 pm
CU88 wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:24 pm Hogan has as much chance of winning GOP POTUS nomination in 2024 as does HRC.
Actually I disagree, with the caveat that he is taken seriously. His record and popularity (with dems) in this deep blue state speaks volumes and he could certainly be that bridge back to normalcy.
I think you are missing 88's point. He's saying Hogan could not get through a GOP primary season. I agree; the primary system weeds out guys like Hogan. Someone has to have the balls to break away.
I understood it. which was my caveat. The big IF, is will the GOP take advantage of using an opportunity for a center person like Hogan. I'll explain. If the GOP takes a loss for the majority fight this midterm, in places where those in the fight are pro-trump, they have their direction for 2024 and Hogan fits that mold; he's a bit like a Kasich (who I voted for BTW) but with more love from the democratic side. Alternatively, if the R's take over the majority in 2022, with contested battles by people not in Trumps corner....the same applies. My guess and hope, is that the current McCarthy jock sniffers will slowly begin to back away.

This is also why I suggested earlier that we need a pivot in the right direction for employment, economy, and no war, much like during the 2016-2020. All people really want is safety, a job, and to be left alone, the more you interfere with those 3 things (even if you are not responsible), the more people want something new and shiny.
I agree with 90% of your reasoning and preferences except that I see the GOP going the opposite direction from Hogan...now, you did set up the hypothesis that, having gone all-in for Trump and the Big Lie, IF the GOP lost in the midterms, new ball game.
Stop the damned presses, this here is a momentous occasion, one for the ages.....MD agreed, well, almost, but I'll take it. :lol:
Actually, I suspect we agree on a whole lot of things, share a lot of fundamental values!
Eg we both voted for Kasich, and we have lots of common views about lacrosse...and family...and...

We just focus on the differences in views on these pages.

Probably a good reminder...
I agree my friend.....just keeping it fun and lighthearted.
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
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MDlaxfan76
Posts: 25748
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:40 pm

Re: Hillary 2024?

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

youthathletics wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:40 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:33 pm
youthathletics wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:51 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:22 am
youthathletics wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:26 pm
seacoaster wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:56 pm
youthathletics wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:29 pm
CU88 wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:24 pm Hogan has as much chance of winning GOP POTUS nomination in 2024 as does HRC.
Actually I disagree, with the caveat that he is taken seriously. His record and popularity (with dems) in this deep blue state speaks volumes and he could certainly be that bridge back to normalcy.
I think you are missing 88's point. He's saying Hogan could not get through a GOP primary season. I agree; the primary system weeds out guys like Hogan. Someone has to have the balls to break away.
I understood it. which was my caveat. The big IF, is will the GOP take advantage of using an opportunity for a center person like Hogan. I'll explain. If the GOP takes a loss for the majority fight this midterm, in places where those in the fight are pro-trump, they have their direction for 2024 and Hogan fits that mold; he's a bit like a Kasich (who I voted for BTW) but with more love from the democratic side. Alternatively, if the R's take over the majority in 2022, with contested battles by people not in Trumps corner....the same applies. My guess and hope, is that the current McCarthy jock sniffers will slowly begin to back away.

This is also why I suggested earlier that we need a pivot in the right direction for employment, economy, and no war, much like during the 2016-2020. All people really want is safety, a job, and to be left alone, the more you interfere with those 3 things (even if you are not responsible), the more people want something new and shiny.
I agree with 90% of your reasoning and preferences except that I see the GOP going the opposite direction from Hogan...now, you did set up the hypothesis that, having gone all-in for Trump and the Big Lie, IF the GOP lost in the midterms, new ball game.
Stop the damned presses, this here is a momentous occasion, one for the ages.....MD agreed, well, almost, but I'll take it. :lol:
Actually, I suspect we agree on a whole lot of things, share a lot of fundamental values!
Eg we both voted for Kasich, and we have lots of common views about lacrosse...and family...and...

We just focus on the differences in views on these pages.

Probably a good reminder...
I agree my friend.....just keeping it fun and lighthearted.
👍
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NattyBohChamps04
Posts: 2196
Joined: Tue May 04, 2021 11:40 pm

Re: Hillary 2024?

Post by NattyBohChamps04 »

PizzaSnake wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 12:48 pm Is there a candidate out there from any party that could quell the animosity and division so we as a nation can address the incredible challenges we face?

That is the existential question we face. If we continue on our present course things look irredeemable.
Despite everyone's suggestions here, there are no potential candidates in any party or combination of parties in the near future who can quell the animosity and division. They're pipe dreams. It would take a benevolent dictator to unite us after the fact, or a concurrent end to the current iteration of the 24/7 news cycle, social media environments and Citizen's United world to bring us back to a healthier political discourse. Neither is going to happen.

Our present course leads us to an interesting juncture of 1984 and Brave New World for a short while, then some kind of upheaval for better or worse.
seacoaster
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Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:36 pm

Re: Hillary 2024?

Post by seacoaster »

Mike Pence, candidate for the 2024 GOP nomination:

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022/01 ... _source=tw

"Back in April 2021, while assessing former vice-president Mike Pence’s apparent aspirations to become president in 2024, I described him as trudging toward oblivion, having distinguished himself with four years of the most cringingly embarrassing toadying behavior toward Donald Trump followed by betrayal of the Boss’s final bid for reelection on January 6. Pence had fallen between two stools in the most dramatic way imaginable; while Republicans had mixed feelings about him, he had no obvious path forward in the party, given his original Christian Nationalist constituency’s abiding passion for Trump.

Nevertheless, Pence is still trudging toward 2024, and the self-delusion that propels him onward is inadvertently revealed in Tom LoBianco’s report on the Hoosier’s bright future as “the shadow front-runner” in Vanity Fair today. LoBianco, it should be noted, is a former Indiana reporter who has written a book about Pence, so it would be understandable if he feels a bit invested in the former veep’s viability in national politics. But for whatever reason, the piece channels Team Pence’s spin about the former veep’s path to the presidency — and in doing so, it reveals just how unlikely it really is.

The piece begins by noting, “For a long time, the conventional wisdom among Republicans has been that Trump ended Pence’s political career on January 6, convincing his die-hard base that Pence was the Benedict Arnold of their revolution.” In this case, the conventional wisdom is almost certainly true. By any measure, Trump’s grip on the Republican Party is growing, not fading, and if he chooses to run in 2024, Pence would barely represent a speed bump in his way. Even if Trump declines to run, he will have enormous impact as MAGA kingmaker, and that’s where Pence’s behavior on January 6 will doom him. The more we know about that fateful day, the more it is apparent that Trump’s strategy for staying in office was totally based on an effort to convince Pence to steal the election by counting out Joe Biden or by throwing the results into doubt by adjourning the special congressional session he presided over that confirmed the Democrat’s victory. We know that Pence was vacillating about what to do right up to the morning of January 6 itself. It was not an attractive look, and if Pence persists in running for president, the facts will belie the idea he was a brave and resolute constitutionalist standing like a rock against the raging MAGA winds.

But LoBianco (and presumably the Pence associates whispering to him) ignores all that and asserts that Trump’s weakening position in the GOP was proved by Glenn Youngkin’s November 2021 gubernatorial win in Virginia, which showed the viability of Pence’s bid to become leader of a post-Trump party: “Pence, like many other Republicans, campaigned with Youngkin at private events, but Trump was kept away — and the lesson of his absence sunk in quickly.”

To be blunt about it, Pence wasn’t significant enough to be “kept away” from Youngkin’s state-focused campaign, unlike Trump, who was the obsessive focus of Terry McAuliffe’s failed efforts to keep Democrats energized. Plus Youngkin, who accepted Trump’s endorsement, was running for governor, not president. No Republican running for national office for the foreseeable future will be able to ignore Trump or his bogus claims that the 2020 election was stolen from him by Democrats with the complicity of RINOs like Mike Pence.

The most risible claim about Pence’s political status involves the impact of Pence’s complicity: “Pence has tap-danced around the events of January 6 ever since, even while fallout from the insurrection has kept his name consistently in the news — a level of exposure invaluable to any politician looking to win the highest office in the land.”

This “any coverage is good coverage” take would suggest that perhaps Andrew Cuomo is perfectly positioned for a huge political comeback. There’s little doubt that in MAGA-land, Pence’s betrayal of the greatest president in history on January 6 and his refusal to apologize for it subsequently are far worse than Trump’s history of bullying and alleged sexual harassment (traits viewed, in fact, as signs of strength and character among some of the former president’s admirers).

If, as LoBianco asserts, Trump is so weak and Pence is so strong, you’d think maybe the latter would proudly declare independence from the former and push him aside. All in good time, we are told:

At least one of Pence’s Republican allies has been quietly pushing the former vice president to attack Trump directly, according to the longtime Indiana Republican. But Pence’s team has brushed back those suggestions for now, charting a more genteel course while waiting to see how the 2024 field shapes up. “Now’s not the right time,” said one Indiana Republican who expects to support Pence should he officially declare for 2024.

I’m sorry, but the case for Pence ’24 just isn’t credible. If Republicans want to continue the MAGA path they have chosen, they have the Man himself or his designated successor, who will decidedly not be Benedict Arnold Pence. And in the unlikely event that they choose to go in a different direction, there are around 30 or 40 prominent possibilities — including, come to think of it, Glenn Youngkin — who are not guilty of what LoBianco refers to as behavior toward Trump “obsequious to the point of parody.” He rightly notes that Pence’s original path to the presidency was to serve two terms as Trump’s veep and win the presidential nomination as a matter of course, much like George H.W. Bush in 1988 or Al Gore in 2000 (though both men actually had to fight for it). That all ended on January 6, 2021. So now Pence is likely to wind up like his friend and fellow Hoosier Dan Quayle, the former veep who ran a humiliatingly unsuccessful 2000 presidential campaign after losing the vice-presidency in 1992. Yet Pence sojourns on, proving that inertia is the path of least resistance for politicians who have lost their way."
seacoaster
Posts: 8866
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:36 pm

Re: Hillary 2024?

Post by seacoaster »

The Greatest Governor in the History of Governorship vs. the Greatest President in the History of All the Presidents Ever Before and To Come:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/16/us/t ... antis.html

"For months, former President Donald J. Trump has been grumbling quietly to friends and visitors to his Palm Beach mansion about a rival Republican power center in another Florida mansion, some 400 miles to the north.

Gov. Ron DeSantis, a man Mr. Trump believes he put on the map, has been acting far less like an acolyte and more like a future competitor, Mr. Trump complains. With his stock rising fast in the party, the governor has conspicuously refrained from saying he would stand aside if Mr. Trump runs for the Republican nomination for president in 2024.

“The magic words,” Trump has said to several associates and advisers.

That long-stewing resentment burst into public view recently in a dispute over a seemingly unrelated topic: Covid policies. After Mr. DeSantis refused to reveal his full Covid vaccination history, the former president publicly acknowledged he had received a booster. Last week, he seemed to swipe at Mr. DeSantis by blasting as “gutless” politicians who dodge the question out of fear of blowback from vaccine skeptics.

Mr. DeSantis shot back on Friday, criticizing Mr. Trump’s early handling of the pandemic and saying he regretted not being more vocal in his complaints.

The back and forth exposed how far Republicans have shifted to the right on coronavirus politics. The doubts Mr. Trump amplified about public health expertise have only spiraled since he left office. Now his defense of the vaccines — even if often subdued and almost always with the caveat in the same breath that he opposes mandates — has put him uncharacteristically out of step with the hard-line elements of his party’s base and provided an opening for a rival.

But that it was Mr. DeSantis — a once-loyal member of the Trump court — wielding the knife made the tension about much more.

At its core, the dispute amounts to a stand-in for the broader challenge confronting Republicans at the outset of midterm elections. They are led by a defeated former president who demands total fealty, brooks no criticism and is determined to sniff out, and then snuff out, any threat to his control of the party.

That includes the 43-year-old DeSantis, who has told friends he believes Mr. Trump’s expectation that he bend the knee is asking too much. That refusal has set up a generational clash and a test of loyalty in the de facto capital of today’s G.O.P., one watched by Republicans elsewhere who’ve ridden to power on Mr. Trump’s coattails.

Already, party figures are attempting to calm matters.

“They’re the two most important leaders in the Republican Party,” said Brian Ballard, a longtime Florida lobbyist with connections to both men, predicting Mr. Trump and Mr. DeSantis “will be personal and political friends for the rest of their careers.”

Mr. Trump’s aides also have tried to tamp down questions about the former president’s frustrations, so as not to elevate Mr. DeSantis.

Still, Mr. Trump has made no secret of his preparations for a third run for the White House. And while Mr. DeSantis, who is up for re-election this year, has not declared his plans, he is widely believed to be eyeing the presidency.

Mr. Trump and his aides are mindful of Republicans’ increasingly public fatigue with the drama that trails Mr. Trump. The former president’s false claims about fraud in the 2020 election — which Mr. DeSantis has not challenged — and his role in the events leading to the Jan. 6 riot at the Capitol have some Republicans looking for a fresh start.

Mr. DeSantis is often the first name Republicans cite as a possible Trump-style contender not named Trump.

“DeSantis would be a formidable 2024 candidate in the Trump lane should Trump not run,” said Dan Eberhart, a Republican donor. “He’s Trump but a little smarter, more disciplined and brusque without being too brusque.”

Notably, Mr. Trump, a longtime student of charisma and mass appeal, as well as an avid reader of polling, has refrained so far from publicly attacking Mr. DeSantis, who is a distant but potent second to him in polls on the 2024 G.O.P. field. His restraint is a break from the mockery and bullying he often uses to attack Republicans he perceives as vulnerable. Mr. Trump made no reference to the governor at a rally in Arizona on Saturday.

Mr. DeSantis has $70 million in the bank for his re-election, a war chest he stocked with help from the Republican rank-and-file and donor class, alike. He has raised his profile in the same spaces Mr. Trump once dominated. The governor is ubiquitous on Fox News, where he is routinely met with the sort of softballs that once arced toward Mr. Trump. And he frequently mixes with the well-tanned Republican donor community near the former president’s winter home in South Florida.

It was not always this way.

Mr. DeSantis was a little-known Florida congressman in 2017, when Mr. Trump, who was then the president, spotted him on television and took keen interest. Mr. DeSantis, an Ivy League-educated military veteran and smooth-talking defender of the new president, was exactly what Mr. Trump liked in a politician.

It wasn’t long before Mr. Trump blessed Mr. DeSantis’s bid for governor and sent in staff to help him, lifting the lawmaker to a victory over a better-known rival for the party’s nomination.

Mr. DeSantis survived the general election and has often governed in a style that mirrors his patron, slashing at the left and scrapping with the news media. But that alone doesn’t placate Mr. Trump. As with other Republicans he has endorsed, the former president appears to take a kind of ownership interest in Mr. DeSantis — and to believe that he is owed dividends and deference.

“Look, I helped Ron DeSantis at a level that nobody’s ever seen before,” Mr. Trump said in an interview for a forthcoming book, “Insurgency,” on the rightward shift of the Republican Party, by the New York Times reporter Jeremy W. Peters. Mr. Trump said he believed Mr. DeSantis “didn’t have a chance” of winning without his help.

The former president’s expectation of deference from Mr. DeSantis is a reminder to other Republicans that a Trump endorsement comes with a price, a demand that could prove particularly consequential should he run again and have a stable of Republican lawmakers in his debt.

At times, Mr. Trump has sought to kindle his relationship with Mr. DeSantis. He has suggested the governor would be a strong choice for vice president. Similar courtship has helped win deference from other potential rivals. But Mr. DeSantis has not relented.

“I wonder why the guy won’t say he won’t run against me,” Mr. Trump has said to several associates and advisers, who spoke on condition of anonymity to describe private conversations.

Mr. Trump began the recent contretemps by attacking the governor’s refusal to acknowledge whether he had received a Covid-19 booster shot.

“The answer is ‘Yes,’ but they don’t want to say it, because they’re gutless,” Mr. Trump said in a television interview this month, referring only to “politicians” but clearly alluding to Mr. DeSantis. “You got to say it — whether you had it or not, say it.”

Mr. DeSantis’s response came on Friday in an interview on the conservative podcast “Ruthless.” Speaking in front of an in-person audience near St. Petersburg, Fla., the governor said one of his biggest regrets was not forcefully opposing Mr. Trump’s calls for lockdowns when the coronavirus first began to spread in the spring of 2020.

“Knowing now what I know then, if that was a threat earlier, I would have been much louder,” Mr. DeSantis said. The governor said he had been “telling Trump ‘stop the flights from China’” but argued he never thought in early March 2020 that the virus “would lead to locking down the country.”

Mr. DeSantis then moved quickly to place blame on Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, who advised Trump on the country’s Covid response, a much safer target with conservatives.

The former president did not immediately respond. Without a Twitter account, his hair-trigger retorts have become less frequent. A spokesman for Mr. Trump also did not respond to requests for comment. An adviser to Mr. DeSantis declined to comment.

Mr. DeSantis, however, has touched on a delicate issue, one of the few on which Mr. Trump is to the left of his party’s hard-liners: the efficacy of the vaccine and deference to public health experts’ advice on how to curb the spread of the virus.

Mr. Trump has begun blasting warning shots at Mr. DeSantis and other aspiring Republicans, signaling he intends to defend the vaccines his administration helped develop. In an interview with Candace Owens, a right-wing media personality, the former president said “the vaccine worked” and dismissed conspiracy theories. “People aren’t dying when they take the vaccine,” he said.

Mr. DeSantis, though, has been much more eager to focus on his resistance to Covid-19 restrictions, past and present, than to make a robust case for vaccination and booster shots.

Notably, at his rally on Saturday, Mr. Trump did not promote vaccines and criticized so-called Covid “lockdowns.”

Mr. Trump’s loudest antagonists are likely to continue to stoke the tension between the two men. Ann Coulter, the conservative commentator who has fallen out with the former president, delighted in the dust-up this week.

“Trump is demanding to know Ron DeSantis’s booster status, and I can now reveal it,” Ms. Coulter wrote on Twitter. “He was a loyal booster when Trump ran in 2016, but then he learned our president was a liar and con man whose grift was permanent.”

In an email, Ms. Coulter, herself a part-time Florida resident, put a finer point on what makes Mr. DeSantis’s rise unsettling for the former president. “Trump is done,” she wrote. “You guys should stop obsessing over him.”
PizzaSnake
Posts: 4688
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:36 pm

Re: Hillary 2024?

Post by PizzaSnake »

Nope.

Hogan's out. Can't stand public scrutiny. Either too crooked or stupid to pickup the phone and talk his shite. Duplicity is a deal breaker.

"It seems that Mr. Hogan, burned once, was intent on avoiding a repeat. In 2016, a public-records request by the Associated Press yielded a trove of the governor’s emails, which were by turns acid-tongued about journalists and thin-skinned about his public image. By 2018, when Mr. Hogan, a Republican, was running for a second term, he found a workaround.

As reported by The Post’s Steve Thompson, it came in the form of an smartphone app called Wickr, among whose features is a “Burn-On-Read” timer that erases messages on a schedule determined by its users. In the case of Mr. Hogan, his senior staffers and other associates, messages in their closed chat rooms self-destruct after 24 hours, ensuring them a forum beyond the reach of the media’s, and the public’s, prying eyes."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... sage-time/
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
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