January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

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youthathletics
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by youthathletics »

a fan wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:10 pm
youthathletics wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:07 pm
get it to x wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:03 pm
a fan wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:57 pm
get it to x wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:54 pm
Kismet wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:38 pm
a fan wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:35 pm
a fan wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:02 pm
get it to x wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:29 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:35 am
get it to x wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:06 am
youthathletics wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:55 pm Looking like Trump must have occupied the Parliament house in Bulgaria, since people tried to breach the place. Amazing, what a stout staff of police can prevent.....imagine that. I bet the protestors never even organized prior. 8-)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/an ... story.html
A sane look at 1/6 from Marco Rubio:

https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/s ... rco-rubio/
That's "sane" or immensely disingenuous?

Of course that whack job wasn't going to overthrow anything.
But the conspiracy to do so was very real and the insurrection at the Capitol was just one, very ugly piece.
You should just stop calling it an insurrection. Nobody has been charged with insurrection or sedition. How about "Mostly peaceful protest" as less than a few percent of the total rally attendees went over to the Capitol and only a few percent of those people committed a violent act. Your label is more disingenuous than anything Senator Rubio stated. Where is your outrage over people charged with trespassing being held without bail for over a year? You're fine with it because it is meant to intimidate Trump supporters. Spare us your selective outrage.
Did you call the Protests in Minnesota mostly peaceful? Because they were. Fringe elements broke all those laws.

Pretty sure you wouldn’t call last summer mostly peaceful. So why would you expect your opposition to do what you didn’t do?
And the FBI just dropped sedition charges on a January 6 rioter.


Crazy .
Not just any rioter.....leader of the Oathkeepers (and also six other members of the organization).

Very big deal.
Was Ray Epps among them?

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/lo ... 624406002/

He was on the FBI list until he wasn't. Has he been charged with anything. If you watch the video, he was encouraging entry into the Capitol. Protesters were pointing to him and yelling "Fed, Fed, Fed". Another put up job by the FBI? Like the Whitmer kidnap case that is now unraveling.
Wait—-so you think this was an inside job led by the Trump-led FBI?

Really? Pretty sure it was angry Trump fans who let the mob mentality get the best of them.

I
Most of the crowd yelled "NO" when he said go into the capitol. Then pointed to him and yelled "Fed".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_rv18YM8hg
For context
I guess the central point that some people on the right are making, or have used to imply some sort of conspiracy, is that incitement of a riot is a federal crime and Epps is seen on video encouraging pro-Trump demonstrators to “go into the Capitol.” Can you explain why what he did doesn’t rise to the level of a chargeable offense?

Kinzinger.....
No, I can’t. That’s a DOJ question. For me, what I know is that the implication was he was one of the main FBI agents, and I think that’s key, the accusation that he was both an agent and an informant. According to him, he’s had no involvement with any sort of law enforcement. I would say this: There were 30,000 to 40,000 people there that day. I’m certain that if you comb some of the video from the day before and the day of, there are people that say things that probably all could be charged with if you used that low definition.
Did you forget to play this stupid game with protesters in Portland ? What about the FBI agents that infiltrated antifa? Tune your tinfoil hat to setting “6.09”, and you’ll pick up what I’m putting down .
Care to actually stay on topic and not play scoreboard man for more than 2 seconds, and wonder why our DOJ did not prosecute a clear violator of a federal law on an event compared to 911 and so threatening to our democracy?

:lol: :lol: :lol: Glad you agree they are equivalent protests gone awry. At least you admit it now. :P
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

youthathletics wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:14 pm
a fan wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:10 pm
youthathletics wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:07 pm
get it to x wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:03 pm
a fan wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:57 pm
get it to x wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:54 pm
Kismet wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:38 pm
a fan wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:35 pm
a fan wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:02 pm
get it to x wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:29 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:35 am
get it to x wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:06 am
youthathletics wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:55 pm Looking like Trump must have occupied the Parliament house in Bulgaria, since people tried to breach the place. Amazing, what a stout staff of police can prevent.....imagine that. I bet the protestors never even organized prior. 8-)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/an ... story.html
A sane look at 1/6 from Marco Rubio:

https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/s ... rco-rubio/
That's "sane" or immensely disingenuous?

Of course that whack job wasn't going to overthrow anything.
But the conspiracy to do so was very real and the insurrection at the Capitol was just one, very ugly piece.
You should just stop calling it an insurrection. Nobody has been charged with insurrection or sedition. How about "Mostly peaceful protest" as less than a few percent of the total rally attendees went over to the Capitol and only a few percent of those people committed a violent act. Your label is more disingenuous than anything Senator Rubio stated. Where is your outrage over people charged with trespassing being held without bail for over a year? You're fine with it because it is meant to intimidate Trump supporters. Spare us your selective outrage.
Did you call the Protests in Minnesota mostly peaceful? Because they were. Fringe elements broke all those laws.

Pretty sure you wouldn’t call last summer mostly peaceful. So why would you expect your opposition to do what you didn’t do?
And the FBI just dropped sedition charges on a January 6 rioter.


Crazy .
Not just any rioter.....leader of the Oathkeepers (and also six other members of the organization).

Very big deal.
Was Ray Epps among them?

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/lo ... 624406002/

He was on the FBI list until he wasn't. Has he been charged with anything. If you watch the video, he was encouraging entry into the Capitol. Protesters were pointing to him and yelling "Fed, Fed, Fed". Another put up job by the FBI? Like the Whitmer kidnap case that is now unraveling.
Wait—-so you think this was an inside job led by the Trump-led FBI?

Really? Pretty sure it was angry Trump fans who let the mob mentality get the best of them.

I
Most of the crowd yelled "NO" when he said go into the capitol. Then pointed to him and yelled "Fed".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_rv18YM8hg
For context
I guess the central point that some people on the right are making, or have used to imply some sort of conspiracy, is that incitement of a riot is a federal crime and Epps is seen on video encouraging pro-Trump demonstrators to “go into the Capitol.” Can you explain why what he did doesn’t rise to the level of a chargeable offense?

Kinzinger.....
No, I can’t. That’s a DOJ question. For me, what I know is that the implication was he was one of the main FBI agents, and I think that’s key, the accusation that he was both an agent and an informant. According to him, he’s had no involvement with any sort of law enforcement. I would say this: There were 30,000 to 40,000 people there that day. I’m certain that if you comb some of the video from the day before and the day of, there are people that say things that probably all could be charged with if you used that low definition.
Did you forget to play this stupid game with protesters in Portland ? What about the FBI agents that infiltrated antifa? Tune your tinfoil hat to setting “6.09”, and you’ll pick up what I’m putting down .
Care to actually stay on topic and not play scoreboard man for more than 2 seconds, and wonder why our DOJ did not prosecute a clear violator of a federal law on an event compared to 911 and so threatening to our democracy?

:lol: :lol: :lol: Glad you agree they are equivalent protests gone awry. At least you admit it now. :P
https://www.koin.com/news/protests/port ... -2021/amp/

https://www.justice.gov/usao-or/pr/74-p ... nstrations
Last edited by Typical Lax Dad on Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by dislaxxic »

trump apologists cling to Epps as somehow getting trump off the hook here. never gonna happen. One person is a sea of seditionists? PUH-LESE!

..
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by youthathletics »

dislaxxic wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:16 pm trump apologists cling to Epps as somehow getting trump off the hook here. never gonna happen. One person is a sea of seditionists? PUH-LESE!

..
Not at all, that is you being partisan. I want them all hung in public....just asking why Epps, caught on video, breaking a federal law, is nowhere to be seen and our DOJ is silent on the matter as is Kinzinger who is on the committee.
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by a fan »

youthathletics wrote: Care to actually stay on topic and not play scoreboard man for more than 2 seconds, and wonder why our DOJ did not prosecute a clear violator of a federal law on an event compared to 911 and so threatening to our democracy?

:lol: :lol: :lol: Glad you agree they are equivalent protests gone awry. At least you admit it now. :P
No. The protests in Portland were worse. Fire was involved. And I already said that. Dude was arrested for said fire. And no one was dumb enough to claim he was an FBI plant.

You missed that didya?

What I was mocking, for the 100th time, was that some here were pretending that it was millions of Dems burning down every City in America to the ground. Antifa HATES the Dems , and Biden in particular.

As for the rest of your post ? I have no clue what you’re talking about—-details, please
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by dislaxxic »

youthathletics wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:23 pm
dislaxxic wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:16 pm trump apologists cling to Epps as somehow getting trump off the hook here. never gonna happen. One person is a sea of seditionists? PUH-LESE!

..
Not at all, that is you being partisan. I want them all hung in public....just asking why Epps, caught on video, breaking a federal law, is nowhere to be seen and our DOJ is silent on the matter as is Kinzinger who is on the committee.
Sources and methods, sources and methods. They know everything about Epps. Do you think they're hiding something nefarious involving trump's Deep State operatives?

..
"The purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog." - Calvin, to Hobbes
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by youthathletics »

dislaxxic wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:37 pm
youthathletics wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:23 pm
dislaxxic wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:16 pm trump apologists cling to Epps as somehow getting trump off the hook here. never gonna happen. One person is a sea of seditionists? PUH-LESE!

..
Not at all, that is you being partisan. I want them all hung in public....just asking why Epps, caught on video, breaking a federal law, is nowhere to be seen and our DOJ is silent on the matter as is Kinzinger who is on the committee.
Sources and methods, sources and methods. They know everything about Epps. Do you think they're hiding something nefarious involving trump's Deep State operatives?

..
No clue....merely asking the question. Especially, when we have the criminal clear as day on video breaking the law....and then he just vanishes like a fart.
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by jhu72 »

This afternoon an Oath-keeper was charged with committing Seditious Conspiracy on January 6th by DOJ. Supposedly 4 witnesses. This covers more than just the day of January 6th, covers before and after.

Should put a hitch in the republican attempt to whitewash Jan 6th as a normal tourist visit, move on nothing to see event. :roll:
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by youthathletics »

jhu72 wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:08 pm This afternoon an Oath-keeper was charged with committing Seditious Conspiracy on January 6th by DOJ. Supposedly 4 witnesses. This covers more than just the day of January 6th, covers before and after.

Should put a hitch in the republican attempt to whitewash Jan 6th as a normal tourist visit, move on nothing to see event. :roll:
This is why I believe the snowball will start to pick up more and more clear headed republicans and weed out the knuckleheads'.
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by get it to x »

jhu72 wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:08 pm This afternoon an Oath-keeper was charged with committing Seditious Conspiracy on January 6th by DOJ. Supposedly 4 witnesses. This covers more than just the day of January 6th, covers before and after.

Should put a hitch in the republican attempt to whitewash Jan 6th as a normal tourist visit, move on nothing to see event. :roll:
Ray Epps was the supposed/one time leader of the Oath Keepers in AZ. I'm against any of these militia type groups and anyone advocating violence of any sort. That's why I can't wrap my head around this guy being in these videos, being on the FBI "collage" of suspects and suddenly back running his little wedding barn back in AZ with nary an indictment.
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

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... apparently a small number of Oath-keepers have reached plea deals with DOJ which require their testifying against other rioters / insurrectionists.
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by SCLaxAttack »

Head of Oath Keepers charged.

Three Oath Keepers with Roger Stone on Jan 6 charged.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/le ... story.html

The noose tightens. First seditious conspiracy, then Sedition and treason.

First Oath Keepers, then Stone, then Trump.

Prison time awaits. Can’t wait to hear how terribly Trump deals with it.
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

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.. total of 13 Oath-keepers now charged with Seditious Conspiracy.

Makes a mockery of the military's claim to being special and protecting the democracy and apolitically serving the people and the government. Training has gone south - literally.
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

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New evidence beyond what was reported months ago ?

https://www.insider.com/oath-keepers-qu ... yer-2021-3
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by old salt »

jhu72 wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:22 pm Makes a mockery of the military's claim to being special and protecting the democracy and apolitically serving the people and the government. Training has gone south - literally.
Specifics please.
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

youthathletics wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:13 pm
jhu72 wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:08 pm This afternoon an Oath-keeper was charged with committing Seditious Conspiracy on January 6th by DOJ. Supposedly 4 witnesses. This covers more than just the day of January 6th, covers before and after.

Should put a hitch in the republican attempt to whitewash Jan 6th as a normal tourist visit, move on nothing to see event. :roll:
This is why I believe the snowball will start to pick up more and more clear headed republicans and weed out the knuckleheads'.
:lol: :lol:
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by dislaxxic »

get it to x wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:21 pm
jhu72 wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:08 pm This afternoon an Oath-keeper was charged with committing Seditious Conspiracy on January 6th by DOJ. Supposedly 4 witnesses. This covers more than just the day of January 6th, covers before and after.

Should put a hitch in the republican attempt to whitewash Jan 6th as a normal tourist visit, move on nothing to see event. :roll:
Ray Epps was the supposed/one time leader of the Oath Keepers in AZ. I'm against any of these militia type groups and anyone advocating violence of any sort. That's why I can't wrap my head around this guy being in these videos, being on the FBI "collage" of suspects and suddenly back running his little wedding barn back in AZ with nary an indictment.
Stewart Rhodes was at home, undetained...until today. Stay tuned, X...this rolling stone is just starting to pick up speed...

..
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

old salt wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:36 pm
jhu72 wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:22 pm Makes a mockery of the military's claim to being special and protecting the democracy and apolitically serving the people and the government. Training has gone south - literally.
Specifics please.
Tune into Maddow... ;)

I think this is but one of several shoes to drop on more serious charges. This includes Rhodes, head of the Oath Keepers...with lots and lots of text communications that are off the hook whacko violent in their militant rhetoric...direct organization and heavy militarization. Lots of spending on military grade weapons and gear.
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by old salt »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:24 pm
old salt wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:36 pm
jhu72 wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:22 pm Makes a mockery of the military's claim to being special and protecting the democracy and apolitically serving the people and the government. Training has gone south - literally.
Specifics please.
Tune into Maddow... ;)

I think this is but one of several shoes to drop on more serious charges. This includes Rhodes, head of the Oath Keepers...with lots and lots of text communications that are off the hook whacko violent in their militant rhetoric...direct organization and heavy militarization. Lots of spending on military grade weapons and gear.
The Oath Keepers are a self-selected group of former military, law enforcement & first responders. You'll learn more about the 5 military vets in this indictment, as things proceed. You will find that 3 had less than distinguished service & departed under less than favorable circumstances, #4 was retired medically for his war wounds & failed to thrive. I'm still researching #5, who had a criminal record after he left the service.

3 were vets of our forever wars & their departure from rationality might hold some lessons about how many vets from those wars adapt.

Caldwell managed to stay in the Navy Reserve as an Intel officer for 19 years, but did not make it to the normal 20 year mark for retirement as an O-4. His attorney noted that he is on full disability due to spinal injuries suffered while in the service.

Rhodes did just one hitch as a paratrooper right out of HS, was injured in a jump & medically discharged. He hooked up with Ron Paul & ended up graduating from Yale Law, so he's qualified to vote in the Ivy poll.

Based on earlier reports, I believe the weapons stash & Jan 6th QRF's were standing by to engage Antifa counter-demonstrators if they turned up as they had in the Dec protests in DC. I don't think they planned on engaging the police with weapons on Jan 6. It will be interesting to learn what they did with their weapons cache after Jan 6th. As to what they planned for after Jan 6, it will be a challenge to prove what was actually planned vs what was bluster.
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

old salt wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:10 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:24 pm
old salt wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:36 pm
jhu72 wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:22 pm Makes a mockery of the military's claim to being special and protecting the democracy and apolitically serving the people and the government. Training has gone south - literally.
Specifics please.
Tune into Maddow... ;)

I think this is but one of several shoes to drop on more serious charges. This includes Rhodes, head of the Oath Keepers...with lots and lots of text communications that are off the hook whacko violent in their militant rhetoric...direct organization and heavy militarization. Lots of spending on military grade weapons and gear.
The Oath Keepers are a self-selected group of former military, law enforcement & first responders. You'll learn more about the 5 military vets in this indictment, as things proceed. You will find that 3 had less than distinguished service & departed under less than favorable circumstances, #4 was retired medically for his war wounds & failed to thrive. I'm still researching #5, who had a criminal record after he left the service.

3 were vets of our forever wars & their departure from rationality might hold some lessons about how many vets from those wars adapt.

Caldwell managed to stay in the Navy Reserve as an Intel officer for 19 years, but did not make it to the normal 20 year mark for retirement as an O-4. His attorney noted that he is on full disability due to spinal injuries suffered while in the service.

Rhodes did just one hitch as a paratrooper right out of HS, was injured in a jump & medically discharged. He hooked up with Ron Paul & ended up graduating from Yale Law, so he's qualified to vote in the Ivy poll.

Based on earlier reports, I believe the weapons stash & Jan 6th QRF's were standing by to engage Antifa counter-demonstrators if they turned up as they had in the Dec protests in DC. I don't think they planned on engaging the police with weapons on Jan 6. It will be interesting to learn what they did with their weapons cache after Jan 6th. As to what they planned for after Jan 6, it will be a challenge to prove what was actually planned vs what was bluster.
Rhodes apparently spent another $40k on weapons and military gear in the Jan 7 - Jan 19 period.
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