January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by a fan »

HooDat wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:20 am
Seacoaster(1) wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:25 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:20 amYikes.
"But I'll vote for him if he is the GOP nominee in 2024."

Numerous Republicans.
can't we just have some decent nominees for a change?
No. ;)
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HooDat
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by HooDat »

a fan wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 2:33 pm
HooDat wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:20 am
Seacoaster(1) wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:25 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:20 amYikes.
"But I'll vote for him if he is the GOP nominee in 2024."

Numerous Republicans.
can't we just have some decent nominees for a change?
No. ;)
I think there are a variety of versions of this quote, but the one I know of is Tolkien (of Lord of the Rings fame) who said something along the lines of: the problem with democracy is that you have to seek power, and are therefore by definition unfit to wield it.

Unfortunately it is true.

I am becoming more and more convinced that the solution is a very grass roots dominated democracy that starts as local as possible. For me, the goal would be to have no one voting for someone they don't PERSONALLY know. That person sits on a level of government that then selects one of its members to represent them at the next highest level, and so on. Each group is comprised on people truly representing the folks that elected them.

I tend to think the footprint provided by our public school system provides the road map to how we should do this - with congressmen basically representing a high school or school district. Those congressmen would be elected by a group of elementary school level "town councils", that might have been elected by "classroom scale" neighborhood committees.

That would be a truly participatory representative government. Don't get me wrong, it would still be comprised mostly of a bunch of Karen's and homeowners association types, but at least they'd be accountable to someone that knew them rather than someone with money....
STILL somewhere back in the day....

...and waiting/hoping for a tinfoil hat emoji......
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

well, that ain't gonna happen, so next idea?

Seriously, our democracy is going to be messy, that's a given. It's not supposed to be simple or easy.

So, the question is whether we can hold onto it by making sure that those who prefer clean and simple power through autocratic means get rejected. At every turn.

Start there.

Right now that means forcing the GOP to compete for the reasonable and moderate voter again.
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HooDat
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by HooDat »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:20 pm Right now that means forcing the GOP to compete for the reasonable and moderate voter again.
there is a lot packed in that sentence. Are you criticizing the GOP of the GOP voters? Because something like 74 million GOP voters pulled the lever for Trump, TRUMP for crimminies sake! So, if you mean for the GOP to put up a reasonably decent human being that represents the GOP's voters, then I am with you all the way. There is room in our political debate to discuss topics like: border security, military intervention, international treaties, which industries should and should not get governmental support, what infrastructure to invest in, and more and more importantly the dwindling middle-class and the resulting widening divide between the have's and the have-not's.

Keep in mind "moderate" is all in the eye of the beholder. If you were to poll the 252 million voting aged Americans - I am guessing somewhere around 250 million of them will tell you that they are "moderate". It's that other guy that's extreme.

Tech and social media are pushing our world through change that is at a pace the I don't think its hyperbole to cal unprecedented - The reach, speed, volume and lack of verifiability around communication is changing not just how we live, but the way our brains are wired. The last thing we need is the partisan BS tribalism that our parties have devolved into. We need the respectful sharing of ideas and a press that questions all authority and expects excellence from our leaders.
STILL somewhere back in the day....

...and waiting/hoping for a tinfoil hat emoji......
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

HooDat wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:36 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:20 pm Right now that means forcing the GOP to compete for the reasonable and moderate voter again.
there is a lot packed in that sentence. Are you criticizing the GOP of the GOP voters? Because something like 74 million GOP voters pulled the lever for Trump, TRUMP for crimminies sake! So, if you mean for the GOP to put up a reasonably decent human being that represents the GOP's voters, then I am with you all the way. There is room in our political debate to discuss topics like: border security, military intervention, international treaties, which industries should and should not get governmental support, what infrastructure to invest in, and more and more importantly the dwindling middle-class and the resulting widening divide between the have's and the have-not's.

Keep in mind "moderate" is all in the eye of the beholder. If you were to poll the 252 million voting aged Americans - I am guessing somewhere around 250 million of them will tell you that they are "moderate". It's that other guy that's extreme.

Tech and social media are pushing our world through change that is at a pace the I don't think its hyperbole to cal unprecedented - The reach, speed, volume and lack of verifiability around communication is changing not just how we live, but the way our brains are wired. The last thing we need is the partisan BS tribalism that our parties have devolved into. We need the respectful sharing of ideas and a press that questions all authority and expects excellence from our leaders.
We agree on a whole lot in those paras.

How about defining a "moderate" as nearly always agreeing with the majority on issues which have 50-60+% support?
That can be a left-leaning moderate or a right-leaning moderate, with only nuances separating them.
This incorporates a big chunk of Americans, yes.

On each end, one can find those who insist on policies with which 50-60+% definitely do not agree.

Unfortunately, gerrymandering encourages party politicians to skew towards the extremes in order to remain viable within their base, and the structure of the Electoral College and the Senate, including filibuster rule, provides grossly outsized power in the hands of the minority of voters over the majority.

Add to this the perversion of dark money.

And, perhaps most importantly, the fragmentation of media and especially the incredible influence of social media, incentivizes the most extreme, as they provide the most profitability. Eyeballs and endorphins, juiced by the algorithms, drive more eyeballs...

Nevertheless, the Dems have been choosing candidates for POTUS whose policy views are close to that of a majority of Americans, or are at least not opposed to those views in strident ways. Those candidates have had their pluses and minuses, but in that respect, the Dems have sought to compete for the "moderate" voter of my description. And indeed, they've won the majority of voters nationally time after time as a result.

The GOP, until Trump, had basically done the same thing, not necessarily winning each election, but coming close enough to win more than they've lost since 1968....But Trump and the political strategy employed was clearly not a majoritarian approach, rather it was intentionally maximizing divisiveness...and the GOP has clearly adopted this now party-wide. CPAC being a profound example of how skewed they've become, as it was not always this whackadoodle. The GOP is now unrepentantly "at war" with the "left" and whatever boogeyman that is convenient.

And they are stridently opposed to many policy views that have 60% support. Just not with their base.

And, most importantly, they have embraced the very ugliest of the far right. The GOP used to reject the worst of the extreme as beyond the pale...but no more, indeed they are among the loudest and most popular voices of the GOP now.

ugh.
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old salt
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by old salt »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:20 amYikes.
Now do you see why I defended Esper & Milley when they were taking so much heat in the msm ?

Great quote by Milley -- “Can you imagine what a group of people who are much more capable could have done?”
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

old salt wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:22 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:20 amYikes.
Now do you see why I defended Esper & Milley when they were taking so much heat in the msm ?

Great quote by Milley -- “Can you imagine what a group of people who are much more capable could have done?”
:lol: :lol: You have been on the right side if history throughout :lol: :lol:
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
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old salt
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by old salt »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:41 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:20 amYikes.
Old Soldier liked his policies. Gave him a pass for 4 years.
...& I remain grateful for what was accomplished & how many of those policies endure & have been adapted by other serving officials & candidates.
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

old salt wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:28 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:41 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:20 amYikes.
Old Soldier liked his policies. Gave him a pass for 4 years.
...& I remain grateful for what was accomplished & how many of those policies endure & have been adapted by other serving officials & candidates.
MAGA.
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
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old salt
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by old salt »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:29 pm
old salt wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:28 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:41 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:20 amYikes.
Old Soldier liked his policies. Gave him a pass for 4 years.
...& I remain grateful for what was accomplished & how many of those policies endure & have been adapted by other serving officials & candidates.
MAGA.
...with someone other than Trump in charge.
Typical Lax Dad
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

old salt wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:33 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:29 pm
old salt wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:28 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:41 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:20 amYikes.
Old Soldier liked his policies. Gave him a pass for 4 years.
...& I remain grateful for what was accomplished & how many of those policies endure & have been adapted by other serving officials & candidates.
MAGA.
...with someone other than Trump in charge.
David Duke.
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
Farfromgeneva
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by Farfromgeneva »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:34 pm
old salt wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:33 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:29 pm
old salt wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:28 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:41 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:20 amYikes.
Old Soldier liked his policies. Gave him a pass for 4 years.
...& I remain grateful for what was accomplished & how many of those policies endure & have been adapted by other serving officials & candidates.
MAGA.
...with someone other than Trump in charge.
David Duke.
Jerry Falwell Jr
Same sword they knight you they gon' good night you with
Thats' only half if they like you
That ain't even the half what they might do
Don't believe me, ask Michael
See Martin, Malcolm
See Jesus, Judas; Caesar, Brutus
See success is like suicide
Typical Lax Dad
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

Farfromgeneva wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:46 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:34 pm
old salt wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:33 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:29 pm
old salt wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:28 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:41 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:20 amYikes.
Old Soldier liked his policies. Gave him a pass for 4 years.
...& I remain grateful for what was accomplished & how many of those policies endure & have been adapted by other serving officials & candidates.
MAGA.
...with someone other than Trump in charge.
David Duke.
Jerry Falwell Jr


Old Savior
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
Typical Lax Dad
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by Typical Lax Dad »



I recognize this guy. He should run on a MAGA platform
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
Farfromgeneva
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by Farfromgeneva »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:02 pm

I recognize this guy. He should run on a MAGA platform
Dude got it right, the cook, when he said that old man hates his life.

I figured it out, this is what folks mean by MAGA!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9lZDgGr1PO0
Same sword they knight you they gon' good night you with
Thats' only half if they like you
That ain't even the half what they might do
Don't believe me, ask Michael
See Martin, Malcolm
See Jesus, Judas; Caesar, Brutus
See success is like suicide
Typical Lax Dad
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

old salt wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:22 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:20 amYikes.
Now do you see why I defended Esper & Milley when they were taking so much heat in the msm ?

Great quote by Milley -- “Can you imagine what a group of people who are much more capable could have done?”
Others have responded more sharply or more humorously.

I'll just say that these guys should have all blown the whistle on Trump early on, as soon as they recognized how much of a fascist idiot he really is. I'll cut Esper and Milley a bit of slack sticking it out down the backstretch, but they all should have gone public upon departure.

Full on testimony. From year one and thereon, each departing official.

Trump should have been impeached and out of office. Early.
CU88
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by CU88 »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:38 am
old salt wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:22 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:20 amYikes.
Now do you see why I defended Esper & Milley when they were taking so much heat in the msm ?

Great quote by Milley -- “Can you imagine what a group of people who are much more capable could have done?”
Others have responded more sharply or more humorously.

I'll just say that these guys should have all blown the whistle on Trump early on, as soon as they recognized how much of a fascist idiot he really is. I'll cut Esper and Milley a bit of slack sticking it out down the backstretch, but they all should have gone public upon departure.

Full on testimony. From year one and thereon, each departing official.

Trump should have been impeached and out of office. Early.
I agree 100%

These jokers now want medals for what they thought when it was real time; and everyone to forget that they DID NOTHING to report this BS.
Seacoaster(1)
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by Seacoaster(1) »

old salt wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:22 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:20 amYikes.
Now do you see why I defended Esper & Milley when they were taking so much heat in the msm ?

Great quote by Milley -- “Can you imagine what a group of people who are much more capable could have done?”
Exactly: Milley is effectively talking about DeSantis, in whose sandbox you'll likely be playing in the next year or so.
Farfromgeneva
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by Farfromgeneva »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:38 am
old salt wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:22 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:20 amYikes.
Now do you see why I defended Esper & Milley when they were taking so much heat in the msm ?

Great quote by Milley -- “Can you imagine what a group of people who are much more capable could have done?”
Others have responded more sharply or more humorously.

I'll just say that these guys should have all blown the whistle on Trump early on, as soon as they recognized how much of a fascist idiot he really is. I'll cut Esper and Milley a bit of slack sticking it out down the backstretch, but they all should have gone public upon departure.

Full on testimony. From year one and thereon, each departing official.

Trump should have been impeached and out of office. Early.
Isn’t this based on a book coming out? Same as the other sycophants like Grisham?
Same sword they knight you they gon' good night you with
Thats' only half if they like you
That ain't even the half what they might do
Don't believe me, ask Michael
See Martin, Malcolm
See Jesus, Judas; Caesar, Brutus
See success is like suicide
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