January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

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Typical Lax Dad
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

a fan wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 3:32 pm
old salt wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 3:16 pm In 2020, not all states were as well equipped or prepared to go to all-mail voting as CO is.
They don't have the Voter ID<=>DMV infrastructure that CO has & are not willing to make that investment.
You are intentionally leaving out that these States were audited, and no fraud was found. This is intellectually dishonest.

In the end, you have to point at the scoreboard, OS, and tip your hat to the Americans in charge of our elections, OS.
You are nicer than I am. No adjective was really needed.
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old salt
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by old salt »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 3:36 pm
a fan wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 3:32 pm
old salt wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 3:16 pm In 2020, not all states were as well equipped or prepared to go to all-mail voting as CO is.
They don't have the Voter ID<=>DMV infrastructure that CO has & are not willing to make that investment.
You are intentionally leaving out that these States were audited, and no fraud was found. This is intellectually dishonest.

In the end, you have to point at the scoreboard, OS, and tip your hat to the Americans in charge of our elections, OS.
You are nicer than I am. No adjective was really needed.
Audits don't uncover ballot harvesting & giving "help" to voters that they can't receive between the dividers or behind the curtain in the voting booth.
Typical Lax Dad
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

old salt wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:32 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 3:36 pm
a fan wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 3:32 pm
old salt wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 3:16 pm In 2020, not all states were as well equipped or prepared to go to all-mail voting as CO is.
They don't have the Voter ID<=>DMV infrastructure that CO has & are not willing to make that investment.
You are intentionally leaving out that these States were audited, and no fraud was found. This is intellectually dishonest.

In the end, you have to point at the scoreboard, OS, and tip your hat to the Americans in charge of our elections, OS.
You are nicer than I am. No adjective was really needed.
Audits don't uncover ballot harvesting & giving "help" to voters that they can't receive between the dividers or behind the curtain in the voting booth.
Uh huh. You muzzle every dog that rolls through your shop, Spike?
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
a fan
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by a fan »

old salt wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:32 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 3:36 pm
a fan wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 3:32 pm
old salt wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 3:16 pm In 2020, not all states were as well equipped or prepared to go to all-mail voting as CO is.
They don't have the Voter ID<=>DMV infrastructure that CO has & are not willing to make that investment.
You are intentionally leaving out that these States were audited, and no fraud was found. This is intellectually dishonest.

In the end, you have to point at the scoreboard, OS, and tip your hat to the Americans in charge of our elections, OS.
You are nicer than I am. No adjective was really needed.
Audits don't uncover ballot harvesting & giving "help" to voters that they can't receive between the dividers or behind the curtain in the voting booth.
Exactly. And since there's no way to end ballot harvesting, we should end absentee ballots for military voters immediately.

Let your military pals know, OS. I'm sure they'll be happy to ask "dude, are you feeling ok?"


Dude. We get it. You don't want to back down from an argument.
PizzaSnake
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by PizzaSnake »

Secret Service.

DHS "leaders".

Pentagon.

Anyone who believes in coincidence let me know so I can sell you some prime building lots in Eastern Kentucky...

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/02/politics ... index.html
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
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Kismet
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by Kismet »

DoJ subpoenas Pat Cipollone, Trump White House Counsel for Grand Jury testimony.

No issue with wiping the data on DoD phones. The failure to archive the data before the wipe is the issue and that's potential criminal activity.

Don't forget that the former DOPUS deep-sixed the previous IGs at State, DHS, Intelligence, Transportation, HHS and DoD in the months preceding the 2020 election.

I also remind everyone the 14th Amendment reads as follows:

"Section 3.
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability."


Congress could make former DOPUS ineligible to run for office ever again at any time.
Last edited by Kismet on Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:03 am, edited 3 times in total.
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dislaxxic
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by dislaxxic »

THE EVIDENTIARY HOLE IN THE MIDDLE OF ARI MELBER’S “NOT ANYTHING BUT EVIDENCE”

What, or who moved the twice-impeached, disgraced former president to send out his 1:42 AM "will be wild" tweet on December 19, 2021, hours after the infamous "loon meeting" with all the Krakens in the White House?

Maybe it was just his own demented mind at work at that moment. He needs to be indicted and brought into court and put under oath.

..
"The purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog." - Calvin, to Hobbes
CU88
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by CU88 »

PizzaSnake wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 9:24 pm Secret Service.

DHS "leaders".

Pentagon.

Anyone who believes in coincidence let me know so I can sell you some prime building lots in Eastern Kentucky...

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/02/politics ... index.html
Isn’t it time for the DOJ to investigate each and every federal agency that has deleted texts and other relevant records/documents?
PizzaSnake
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by PizzaSnake »

CU88 wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:57 am
PizzaSnake wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 9:24 pm Secret Service.

DHS "leaders".

Pentagon.

Anyone who believes in coincidence let me know so I can sell you some prime building lots in Eastern Kentucky...

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/02/politics ... index.html
Isn’t it time for the DOJ to investigate each and every federal agency that has deleted texts and other relevant records/documents?
Time to update the Federal Records Law to reflect the age we live in.
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
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HooDat
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by HooDat »

PizzaSnake wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:41 am
CU88 wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:57 am
PizzaSnake wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 9:24 pm Secret Service.

DHS "leaders".

Pentagon.

Anyone who believes in coincidence let me know so I can sell you some prime building lots in Eastern Kentucky...

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/02/politics ... index.html
Isn’t it time for the DOJ to investigate each and every federal agency that has deleted texts and other relevant records/documents?
Time to update the Federal Records Law to reflect the age we live in.
Review and retention of texts, emails and hard correspondence are all required in the securities industry, and have been for a very long time.

The regulators were able to recognize the 21st century as we entered it, but somehow the gov couldn't? ... More like wouldn't.

more of the same - rules for thee, but none for me.
STILL somewhere back in the day....

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HooDat
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by HooDat »

a fan wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 3:29 pm
HooDat wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 3:14 pm If we could have skipped the political screaming and wailing of both parties, and just allowed a grown up analysis (like this) - everyone would have a much higher degree of confidence in our election processes.

I contended at the time, if people are worried about something the way to assure them is not to say - "you're an idiot, you have nothing to worry about". Instead, you might want to actually listen to their concerns and take them on as an opportunity to show how good the process works and perhaps to make it better.

Instead the Dems want to paint the Republicans as racists neanderthals, and the GOP wants to rile up their base on ridiculous claims of election fraud and "stolen" elections....
Respectfully disagree on several points.

1. These are fake complaints. I've already demonstrated that these are fake complaints in multiple posts.

a. if the ballots were fraudulent, why are the complainers ONLY talking about one single election on a ballot with DOZENS of issues and candidates? That shows that this is a 100% nonsense complaint. Republicans all took their seats when they won, and no one questioned this. And no one questioned important ballot initiatives. Sorry, but if you can't see how stupid this break with logic is, you're either an infant or an idiot. These are not honest, serious complaints, sorry.

b. no one complained about the same systems when it came to 2022 Primaries. To me, this is the smoking gun: people don't complain about election security when the Republicans win. That tells you that they do indeed trust election systems. They're just complaining because Trump told them to, and to ONLY complain when Republicans lose. Sorry, that doesn't square, and if you're telling us to treat these voters like adults? Adults get called out when they're not making any sense, or when they are flat out lying. Welcome to adulthood.

2. Elections are an open book, and always have been. You can meet with your County elections clerk any time you like. They'd be OVERJOYED to walk you through how they run their election. The rules, the laws, the MO.....and importantly...the AUDIT, which every election clerk in the country executes and reports in one way or another. It's all right there for any serious adult who honestly wants to learn about how their elections are run. As it should be!! My election commissioner was a regular at my pub in Ann Arbor. He took his job VERY seriously. And boy, did that man know his Michigan and Ann Arbor history. The exact guy you want in charge of these matters. Low key, no politics.

All that said? I agree that the best path would have been to do what you suggest. The part I quibble about is that that's not treating voters like adults. But in the end, who cares about that, right? Fight back against the lies and dumb*ss internet BAMN, I agree with you!
I am not sure what you are responding to in your point(s) 1a and 1b? My point was instead of hyperbolizing and politicizing the issue, the adults in the room could have used it as a chance to do exactly what you say in point 2.

The problem was there either were no adults or they chose to remain silent.
STILL somewhere back in the day....

...and waiting/hoping for a tinfoil hat emoji......
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

HooDat wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 10:37 am
a fan wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 3:29 pm
HooDat wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 3:14 pm If we could have skipped the political screaming and wailing of both parties, and just allowed a grown up analysis (like this) - everyone would have a much higher degree of confidence in our election processes.

I contended at the time, if people are worried about something the way to assure them is not to say - "you're an idiot, you have nothing to worry about". Instead, you might want to actually listen to their concerns and take them on as an opportunity to show how good the process works and perhaps to make it better.

Instead the Dems want to paint the Republicans as racists neanderthals, and the GOP wants to rile up their base on ridiculous claims of election fraud and "stolen" elections....
Respectfully disagree on several points.

1. These are fake complaints. I've already demonstrated that these are fake complaints in multiple posts.

a. if the ballots were fraudulent, why are the complainers ONLY talking about one single election on a ballot with DOZENS of issues and candidates? That shows that this is a 100% nonsense complaint. Republicans all took their seats when they won, and no one questioned this. And no one questioned important ballot initiatives. Sorry, but if you can't see how stupid this break with logic is, you're either an infant or an idiot. These are not honest, serious complaints, sorry.

b. no one complained about the same systems when it came to 2022 Primaries. To me, this is the smoking gun: people don't complain about election security when the Republicans win. That tells you that they do indeed trust election systems. They're just complaining because Trump told them to, and to ONLY complain when Republicans lose. Sorry, that doesn't square, and if you're telling us to treat these voters like adults? Adults get called out when they're not making any sense, or when they are flat out lying. Welcome to adulthood.

2. Elections are an open book, and always have been. You can meet with your County elections clerk any time you like. They'd be OVERJOYED to walk you through how they run their election. The rules, the laws, the MO.....and importantly...the AUDIT, which every election clerk in the country executes and reports in one way or another. It's all right there for any serious adult who honestly wants to learn about how their elections are run. As it should be!! My election commissioner was a regular at my pub in Ann Arbor. He took his job VERY seriously. And boy, did that man know his Michigan and Ann Arbor history. The exact guy you want in charge of these matters. Low key, no politics.

All that said? I agree that the best path would have been to do what you suggest. The part I quibble about is that that's not treating voters like adults. But in the end, who cares about that, right? Fight back against the lies and dumb*ss internet BAMN, I agree with you!
I am not sure what you are responding to in your point(s) 1a and 1b? My point was instead of hyperbolizing and politicizing the issue, the adults in the room could have used it as a chance to do exactly what you say in point 2.

The problem was there either were no adults or they chose to remain silent.
I think it was your opening line, beginning: "If we could have skipped the political screaming and wailing of both parties,"

Were the Dems screaming and wailing about election insecurity?

Seems to me that there were prior concerns about voter suppression, but that's not election security, right?
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HooDat
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by HooDat »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 11:37 am I think it was your opening line, beginning: "If we could have skipped the political screaming and wailing of both parties,"

Were the Dems screaming and wailing about election insecurity?

Seems to me that there were prior concerns about voter suppression, but that's not election security, right?
the Dems were just as busy screaming and wailing - but in their case it was about racist republicans wanting the equivalent of poll tests and poll taxes. The political points were worth more to them than the opportunity to be the adult in the room.
STILL somewhere back in the day....

...and waiting/hoping for a tinfoil hat emoji......
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

HooDat wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 11:50 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 11:37 am I think it was your opening line, beginning: "If we could have skipped the political screaming and wailing of both parties,"

Were the Dems screaming and wailing about election insecurity?

Seems to me that there were prior concerns about voter suppression, but that's not election security, right?
the Dems were just as busy screaming and wailing - but in their case it was about racist republicans wanting the equivalent of poll tests and poll taxes. The political points were worth more to them than the opportunity to be the adult in the room.
I have no argument about preferring adults in the room!...but you are describing voter suppression tactics, and I think it's pretty inarguable that there has been a quite concerted effort from some of the state-level GOP to reduce access, in ways specifically intended to reduce participation by voters deemed most likely to vote Dem (low income black and brown). Whether by moving polling stations to locations beyond the reach of public transit, to limiting the # of voting booths in high density areas (long lines), to limiting hours (eg not on Sunday, traditional time to vote after church), etc, these were real acts taken impacting lower income voters in these targeted areas.

Those efforts had increased in recent years, but, of course, do indeed have a very long history. 'Back in the day' that was mostly southern Democrats...
Obviously, those voters and proclivities had been transferred to the GOP over the past 4 or so decades, but what sparked this new round of aggressiveness was the Shelby decision by SCOTUS in 2013 and the subsequent inability of Congress to reauthorize the 1965 Voting Rights Act, which in every prior cycle has received overwhelming bipartisan support...but the GOP saw an opening...and the filibuster...https://www.justice.gov/crt/about-secti ... rights-act

Sure, there had been some teeth gnashing, "screaming and wailing" but I don't think that was inappropriate.

There's a very real problem; by contrast, there really wasn't a problem with election security.

I think the reaction to your post was the equivalency that it implied.
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HooDat
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by HooDat »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 12:16 pm I think the reaction to your post was the equivalency that it implied.
you are projecting my meaning.

I am not talking about the separate topic of voter access and attempts at voter suppression (btw the most pernicious of which is both parties love affair with gerrymandering).

I am talking about the Dems response to the accusations of fraud by Trump and his supporters. Rather than address the accusations (in what could have been a very simple and productive way) they turned accusations of voting irregularity into counter-accusations of this being right-wing nutjobs who don't need to be listened to because they are always attempting voter suppression...

And to be clear, I am not arguing that they weren't right-wing nutjobs. I am arguing that the better response would have been: "let me show all the ways our elections are secure, and lets discuss any reasonable suggestions for making them more so". No matter how good we think we are doing, there is always room for improvement.

To afan's regular comment on absentee ballots - I agree with his (perhaps facetious) position that we should get rig of them. Instead, we certainly have the technological capability to facilitate online voting booths for our military. That solution would eliminate the delays in counting ballots, reduce/eliminate lost ballots, and be far more efficient in general.
STILL somewhere back in the day....

...and waiting/hoping for a tinfoil hat emoji......
a fan
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by a fan »

HooDat wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 10:37 am
a fan wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 3:29 pm
HooDat wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 3:14 pm If we could have skipped the political screaming and wailing of both parties, and just allowed a grown up analysis (like this) - everyone would have a much higher degree of confidence in our election processes.

I contended at the time, if people are worried about something the way to assure them is not to say - "you're an idiot, you have nothing to worry about". Instead, you might want to actually listen to their concerns and take them on as an opportunity to show how good the process works and perhaps to make it better.

Instead the Dems want to paint the Republicans as racists neanderthals, and the GOP wants to rile up their base on ridiculous claims of election fraud and "stolen" elections....
Respectfully disagree on several points.

1. These are fake complaints. I've already demonstrated that these are fake complaints in multiple posts.

a. if the ballots were fraudulent, why are the complainers ONLY talking about one single election on a ballot with DOZENS of issues and candidates? That shows that this is a 100% nonsense complaint. Republicans all took their seats when they won, and no one questioned this. And no one questioned important ballot initiatives. Sorry, but if you can't see how stupid this break with logic is, you're either an infant or an idiot. These are not honest, serious complaints, sorry.

b. no one complained about the same systems when it came to 2022 Primaries. To me, this is the smoking gun: people don't complain about election security when the Republicans win. That tells you that they do indeed trust election systems. They're just complaining because Trump told them to, and to ONLY complain when Republicans lose. Sorry, that doesn't square, and if you're telling us to treat these voters like adults? Adults get called out when they're not making any sense, or when they are flat out lying. Welcome to adulthood.

2. Elections are an open book, and always have been. You can meet with your County elections clerk any time you like. They'd be OVERJOYED to walk you through how they run their election. The rules, the laws, the MO.....and importantly...the AUDIT, which every election clerk in the country executes and reports in one way or another. It's all right there for any serious adult who honestly wants to learn about how their elections are run. As it should be!! My election commissioner was a regular at my pub in Ann Arbor. He took his job VERY seriously. And boy, did that man know his Michigan and Ann Arbor history. The exact guy you want in charge of these matters. Low key, no politics.

All that said? I agree that the best path would have been to do what you suggest. The part I quibble about is that that's not treating voters like adults. But in the end, who cares about that, right? Fight back against the lies and dumb*ss internet BAMN, I agree with you!
I am not sure what you are responding to in your point(s) 1a and 1b? My point was instead of hyperbolizing and politicizing the issue, the adults in the room could have used it as a chance to do exactly what you say in point 2.

The problem was there either were no adults or they chose to remain silent.
In my long-winded fashion, I was trying to say what you said in a single sentence in the bold above.

Some of us are just more succinct than others. ;) (thank you)
PizzaSnake
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by PizzaSnake »

a fan wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 2:49 pm
HooDat wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 10:37 am
a fan wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 3:29 pm
HooDat wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 3:14 pm If we could have skipped the political screaming and wailing of both parties, and just allowed a grown up analysis (like this) - everyone would have a much higher degree of confidence in our election processes.

I contended at the time, if people are worried about something the way to assure them is not to say - "you're an idiot, you have nothing to worry about". Instead, you might want to actually listen to their concerns and take them on as an opportunity to show how good the process works and perhaps to make it better.

Instead the Dems want to paint the Republicans as racists neanderthals, and the GOP wants to rile up their base on ridiculous claims of election fraud and "stolen" elections....
Respectfully disagree on several points.

1. These are fake complaints. I've already demonstrated that these are fake complaints in multiple posts.

a. if the ballots were fraudulent, why are the complainers ONLY talking about one single election on a ballot with DOZENS of issues and candidates? That shows that this is a 100% nonsense complaint. Republicans all took their seats when they won, and no one questioned this. And no one questioned important ballot initiatives. Sorry, but if you can't see how stupid this break with logic is, you're either an infant or an idiot. These are not honest, serious complaints, sorry.

b. no one complained about the same systems when it came to 2022 Primaries. To me, this is the smoking gun: people don't complain about election security when the Republicans win. That tells you that they do indeed trust election systems. They're just complaining because Trump told them to, and to ONLY complain when Republicans lose. Sorry, that doesn't square, and if you're telling us to treat these voters like adults? Adults get called out when they're not making any sense, or when they are flat out lying. Welcome to adulthood.

2. Elections are an open book, and always have been. You can meet with your County elections clerk any time you like. They'd be OVERJOYED to walk you through how they run their election. The rules, the laws, the MO.....and importantly...the AUDIT, which every election clerk in the country executes and reports in one way or another. It's all right there for any serious adult who honestly wants to learn about how their elections are run. As it should be!! My election commissioner was a regular at my pub in Ann Arbor. He took his job VERY seriously. And boy, did that man know his Michigan and Ann Arbor history. The exact guy you want in charge of these matters. Low key, no politics.

All that said? I agree that the best path would have been to do what you suggest. The part I quibble about is that that's not treating voters like adults. But in the end, who cares about that, right? Fight back against the lies and dumb*ss internet BAMN, I agree with you!
I am not sure what you are responding to in your point(s) 1a and 1b? My point was instead of hyperbolizing and politicizing the issue, the adults in the room could have used it as a chance to do exactly what you say in point 2.

The problem was there either were no adults or they chose to remain silent.
In my long-winded fashion, I was trying to say what you said in a single sentence in the bold above.

Some of us are just more succinct than others. ;) (thank you)
“Brevity is the soul of wit.” — Wm. S.
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
a fan
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by a fan »

PizzaSnake wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:05 pm “Brevity is the soul of wit.” — Wm. S.
"as it is the soul of lingerie"..... D Parker
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HooDat
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by HooDat »

a fan wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:17 pm
PizzaSnake wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:05 pm “Brevity is the soul of wit.” — Wm. S.
"as it is the soul of lingerie"..... D Parker
:lol: :lol: :o
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