January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

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old salt
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by old salt »

jhu72 wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:16 pm ... well you know there are special exemptions in the sedition laws for being incompetent and stupid. :lol: :lol:
It shows what little chance there was for success & how much this "threat" is being hyped for political advantage.
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old salt
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by old salt »

Kismet wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:29 am
old salt wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 7:19 pm
Kismet wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 6:59 pm
old salt wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:39 pm
Kismet wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:12 pm
old salt wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:46 pm Some came equipped to engage police in riot gear. The counter protestors did not show up. So everything else is supposition on our part.
Maybe their comms & testimony will reveal some detailed plan or just more grandiose posturing.
I'm not sure every protester carrying a flag intended to use it as a weapon & engage the police.
Those with helmets, vests, goggles, bear spray &/or radios came equipped for a fight.
I think you can bet that the Feds have a lot more information than you do (or that is public). The fact that they made a 48 page indictment for the Oathkeeper big cheese should tell you something about what they have minimally to indict and you can bet there will be a lot more before and during trial.

They have other perps who are flipping to make deals for less time in the slammer, access to encrypted communications plus all sorts of other incriminating evidence. Would not surprise me if Rhodes and the others flip on other big cheeses in the conspiracy before its over.

Seditious conspiracy is a very high bar and suspect the AG rightly wants an overwhelming case at trial with little chance for acquittal.
There was a lot of concern expressed about potential violence by these groups after Jan 6th, some in state capitals. I don't recall reporting that any of that took place. The NG spent a winter guarding the lamp posts of DC. There was a lot of quacking about a year of the most massive investigation in history, yielding no indictments for sedition. That's a lot to justify. Garland & the DoJ are not immune from political pressure. Their challenge will be convincing a jury that this cast of clowns was a serious, coherent insurrection. Criminals don't have to be competent or succeed, but these "insurrectionists" didn't accomplish much beyond taking advantage of a political protest to trespass & vandalize an incompetently undefended Capitol building. They did not establish themselves as a credible threat.
That's not the standard for conviction - You have to prove an agreement between parties and those parties take action in furtherance of the agreement to act - you don't need to succeed or even be competent to get convicted.

As for Garland, word is he balked at the first try and sent them back for more evidence before he would agree to indict. He is going out of his way to not be political here. He was a federal judge for over 20 years. He is not a political type by nature.
I understand how little success or competence is required. I look forward to seeing their operations plan, who signed up for it, & what tangible actions were taken before & after Jan 6. Concrete actions, not posturing.
I expect that no matter what happens going forward you'll be skeptical, continue to tacitly support these alleged criminals and continue to try and be funny until the very end. :oops:
skepticism =/= tacit support. ...& you'll remain a bitter humorless scold (no matter how many :lol: 's you use), resorting to personal insults to chill opposing views.
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Kismet
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by Kismet »

jhu72 wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:16 pm ... well you know there are special exemptions in the sedition laws for being incompetent and stupid. :lol: :lol:
The relevant Federal statutes

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?pat ... ion=prelim

I don't see any exemptions for stupidity and incompetence. That said, I do see activities covered by the law that are contained in the indictment.

There will be more indictments coming all the way to the top of this conspiracy before its done along with many plea bargains to be used to move up the chain of command. I'd think that filing forged and manufactured electoral certificates with NARA also merits a look and indictment.

Keep laughing :oops: :P..and grow a thicker skin Wimpy. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

BTW your hero General Flynn asserted this weekend that Washington DC was populated by loyalists in the Revolution.....maybe you can tell him that there was no Washington DC during the Revolutionary War as the city wasn't built until 1790. It was an uninhabited swamp before 1790
Last edited by Kismet on Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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old salt
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by old salt »

Kismet wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:00 pm
jhu72 wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:16 pm ... well you know there are special exemptions in the sedition laws for being incompetent and stupid. :lol: :lol:
The relevant Federal statutes

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?pat ... ion=prelim

I don't see any exemptions for stupidity and incompetence.
So what ? I've never said they should not be prosecuted. I look forward to those morons going to jail.

My point has always been, & remains, that this cast of clowns was not competent enough to pull off a coup, insurrection, junta, or whatever you want to call it, that could overturn the results of the election, prevent a transition to Biden, or keep Trump in office. ...no matter how many guns they left in their VA hotel.

The violence of Jan 6 succeeded as much as it did because of the incompetent defense of the Capitol.

A slight tweak of the ECA will stop idiots like Eastman from conjuring up bizarre theories about how to gum up the certification process.

Basic security measures are already in place, sufficient to protect & defend the Capitol, now that the CPB has been empowered & somewhat depoliticized & the Mayor & (D)'s can no longer b!tch about common sense security measures being "militarized". Now they love having the DC NG on every street corner.
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by RedFromMI »

The dissembling here is amazing. The need for the action at the Capitol was to delay the certification of the electoral college to give time to persuade Pence and others to steal the election by overturning legitimate votes.

The real sedition was the attempt to overturn the election of Biden and Harris. Nothing legal about it. And that is even more important to prosecute.
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by cradleandshoot »

Kismet wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:00 pm
jhu72 wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:16 pm ... well you know there are special exemptions in the sedition laws for being incompetent and stupid. :lol: :lol:
The relevant Federal statutes

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?pat ... ion=prelim

I don't see any exemptions for stupidity and incompetence. That said, I do see activities covered by the law that are contained in the indictment.

There will be more indictments coming all the way to the top of this conspiracy before its done along with many plea bargains to be used to move up the chain of command. I'd think that filing forged and manufactured electoral certificates with NARA also merits a look and indictment.

Keep laughing :oops: :P..and grow a thicker skin Wimpy. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

BTW your hero General Flynn asserted this weekend that Washington DC was populated by loyalists in the Revolution.....maybe you can tell him that there was no Washington DC during the Revolutionary War as the city wasn't built until 1790. It was an uninhabited swamp before 1790
FTR, there are alot of average Americans that still think DC is inhabitated by swamp creatures.
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by dislaxxic »

old salt wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:59 pmMy point has always been, & remains, that this cast of clowns was not competent enough to pull off a coup, insurrection, junta, or whatever you want to call it, that could overturn the results of the election, prevent a transition to Biden, or keep Trump in office. ...no matter how many guns they left in their VA hotel.
Myopic and ignorant beyond belief. The fact that so many trumpists feel this way is yet ANOTHER way that disinformation and tribal information silos just funnel these people full of stupid. What do they hear when they hear Peter Navarro describe the green Bay Sweep? Navarro FLAT OUT STATES that they wanted to throw the election back to the state legislatures. The "Cast of Clowns" whipped up by the Ultimate Clown, certainly worked as a great smoke screen for the insurrection going on all around and behind the outrage patina "Show Coup" going on at the capitol.

What's worse, if left to the narrative this poster prefers, our country is heading to a very dark place, tout suite.

..
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by cradleandshoot »

seacoaster wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:09 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:48 am
seacoaster wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 6:54 am
cradleandshoot wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 6:35 am https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/jan-6 ... hp&pc=U531

Interesting read, if you have an open mind.
This little opinion piece is not aging well. Already.
If your an individual with a more progressive point of view, of course it doesn't age very well. You know you never want to let a good crisis go to waste. Comparing the events of 1/6/21 to Pearl Harbor and 9/11 is about as asinine and over the top as it gets. The objective here is very clear, keep beating the same insurrection drum over and over and over until everybody believes you. The protest of 1/6/21 was a disgusting display by some really bad characters. It made me all sorts of angry. It wasn't Pearl Harbor and it wasn't 9/11. Trying to make that analogy stick is an insult to those 2 tragedies in our history.
The comparisons aren't meant to be literal, of course. They are intended to reflect the fact that this was a serious event, and unprecedented event in the modern life of the country. That has nothing to do with being "progressive" or "conservative." The assault on the Capitol was intended -- by the inciters and the participants -- to derail an important function of Congress, preclude the certification of the vote, and leave the country in leadership limbo long enough for Trump's functionaries to continue to work for his unlawful retention of office. You would think that would engender a non-partisan or bipartisan response. Instead, folks like the hayseed who wrote this opinion piece want to soft-peddle the whole event, and make it appear that "the left" is using it for gain. You are just being the type of rube they want.
The left is doing everything they can to gin up 1/6 for all the political capital they can get. That is why you never let a good crisis go to waste. The Republicans did the same thing with Benghazi. I have no problem with the Democrat party using every thing they can squeeze out of 1/6 for gaining any possible political leverage. My issue is portraying the riot of 1/6 as being an insurrection desiegned to overthrow the government and an election. I understand why the Dems are throwing that out. You throw enough stuff at the wall hoping something will stick. I'm still trying to figure this out. The Dems on this forum remind us every day how stupid right wing Republicans are. Then in the same breath give them credit for being so deviously clever to develope a plan to overthrow a legitimate election. How do stupid people do that? Right wing Republicans are capable of being incredibly dumb and clever all at the same time. That is quite an accomplishment indeed. :)
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by cradleandshoot »

dislaxxic wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 8:22 am
old salt wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:59 pmMy point has always been, & remains, that this cast of clowns was not competent enough to pull off a coup, insurrection, junta, or whatever you want to call it, that could overturn the results of the election, prevent a transition to Biden, or keep Trump in office. ...no matter how many guns they left in their VA hotel.
Myopic and ignorant beyond belief. The fact that so many trumpists feel this way is yet ANOTHER way that disinformation and tribal information silos just funnel these people full of stupid. What do they hear when they hear Peter Navarro describe the green Bay Sweep? Navarro FLAT OUT STATES that they wanted to throw the election back to the state legislatures. The "Cast of Clowns" whipped up by the Ultimate Clown, certainly worked as a great smoke screen for the insurrection going on all around and behind the outrage patina "Show Coup" going on at the capitol.

What's worse, if left to the narrative this poster prefers, our country is heading to a very dark place, tout suite.

..
In 2000 a similar cast of Democrat clowns whined and moaned and b****ed and complained that the SCOTUS stole the election from the Democrats. The simple fact was that stupid voters in Florida, many of them Democrats, could not figure out how to punch a ballot card. So the remedy was to recount all those " hanging chads" so the mind readers in the Democrat party could decipher who those people "really" wanted to vote for.. :roll:
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by dislaxxic »

cradleandshoot wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:40 amThe left is doing everything they can to gin up 1/6 for all the political capital they can get. That is why you never let a good crisis go to waste. The Republicans did the same thing with Benghazi. I have no problem with the Democrat party using every thing they can squeeze out of 1/6 for gaining any possible political leverage. My issue is portraying the riot of 1/6 as being an insurrection desiegned to overthrow the government and an election. I understand why the Dems are throwing that out. You throw enough stuff at the wall hoping something will stick. I'm still trying to figure this out. The Dems on this forum remind us every day how stupid right wing Republicans are. Then in the same breath give them credit for being so deviously clever to develope a plan to overthrow a legitimate election. How do stupid people do that? Right wing Republicans are capable of being incredibly dumb and clever all at the same time. That is quite an accomplishment indeed.
Au Contraire, Uncle Cranky. The evidence of a COUP is ALL OVER THE PLACE...smoking guns galore. Stupid is as stupid does, my friend and trying to say they're all just as stupid as all of us accuse them of being...is pretty stupid. To answer your question: "How do stupid people do that?" well, that's pretty obvious...they have a REALLY stupid person as their ideological leader, who then goes out and recruits stupid talking heads who then go out and convince other stupid followers, through the use of extensive lies and disinformation, into believing the stupid stuff they peddle. That's what grifters do. It's all manifestly stupid. And it's driving the ideology of the right these days in a broad swath of ways.

Evidence is ALL AROUND YOU here, my friend, and your insistence on looking the other way, obscuring your vision with the acts of the unwashed masses of stupid that descended on the Capitol that day...doesn't do a whole lot to mitigate the stupid.

There are many places to educate yourself. Take advantage, if you dare.

Trump's Electoral Forgery/Fraud

..
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by RedFromMI »

cradleandshoot wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:48 am
dislaxxic wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 8:22 am
old salt wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:59 pmMy point has always been, & remains, that this cast of clowns was not competent enough to pull off a coup, insurrection, junta, or whatever you want to call it, that could overturn the results of the election, prevent a transition to Biden, or keep Trump in office. ...no matter how many guns they left in their VA hotel.
Myopic and ignorant beyond belief. The fact that so many trumpists feel this way is yet ANOTHER way that disinformation and tribal information silos just funnel these people full of stupid. What do they hear when they hear Peter Navarro describe the green Bay Sweep? Navarro FLAT OUT STATES that they wanted to throw the election back to the state legislatures. The "Cast of Clowns" whipped up by the Ultimate Clown, certainly worked as a great smoke screen for the insurrection going on all around and behind the outrage patina "Show Coup" going on at the capitol.

What's worse, if left to the narrative this poster prefers, our country is heading to a very dark place, tout suite.

..
In 2000 a similar cast of Democrat clowns whined and moaned and b****ed and complained that the SCOTUS stole the election from the Democrats. The simple fact was that stupid voters in Florida, many of them Democrats, could not figure out how to punch a ballot card. So the remedy was to recount all those " hanging chads" so the mind readers in the Democrat party could decipher who those people "really" wanted to vote for.. :roll:
The fundamental flaw was not the voter as much as the lack of good punch technology to make the selection. Notice how an actual hole puncher has a mating surface on the back side to guarantee the piece of removed paper/cardboard is completely removed. No such technology in a mailed or in person ballot - just some sort of lance to poke out the punch. Guaranteed to sometimes not completely remove the chad.

I once voted absentee using just that tech - 1976 election. I knew as a computer operator in the evenings at my college to look for the pieces, but someone who had never handled Hollerith cards would not necessarily know to do so.

The advantage was if punched correctly it made counting electronically possible, and allowed the retirement of big mechanical voting machines. But quite prone to failure.

The Supreme Court made a big mistake in overriding the state of Florida counting process IMHO.

And whether the election was "stolen" would not be an issue if the recount was allowed to completion. (Most observers think it still would have gone to Bush, but would have been somewhat closer). But to say the objections at the time have any relationship to the 2020 election is bothsideism in a big way.
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by PizzaSnake »

old salt wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:59 pm
Kismet wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:00 pm
jhu72 wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:16 pm ... well you know there are special exemptions in the sedition laws for being incompetent and stupid. :lol: :lol:
The relevant Federal statutes

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?pat ... ion=prelim

I don't see any exemptions for stupidity and incompetence.
So what ? I've never said they should not be prosecuted. I look forward to those morons going to jail.

My point has always been, & remains, that this cast of clowns was not competent enough to pull off a coup, insurrection, junta, or whatever you want to call it, that could overturn the results of the election, prevent a transition to Biden, or keep Trump in office. ...no matter how many guns they left in their VA hotel.

The violence of Jan 6 succeeded as much as it did because of the incompetent defense of the Capitol.

A slight tweak of the ECA will stop idiots like Eastman from conjuring up bizarre theories about how to gum up the certification process.

Basic security measures are already in place, sufficient to protect & defend the Capitol, now that the CPB has been empowered & somewhat depoliticized & the Mayor & (D)'s can no longer b!tch about common sense security measures being "militarized". Now they love having the DC NG on every street corner.
And what would describe this competence? Say, shooting dead the “protestors” who were imperiling the police through their attacks? Or were my lying eyes deceiving me as I watched it unfold? Sell that equivocal BS elsewhere. Your hypocrisy is staggering in its persistence. You might want to reflect on why it is you remain so steadfast in these mistaken beliefs. No one can “make” you accept reality, you need to do that yourself. I guess old habits die hard.
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

RedFromMI wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:33 pm The dissembling here is amazing. The need for the action at the Capitol was to delay the certification of the electoral college to give time to persuade Pence and others to steal the election by overturning legitimate votes.

The real sedition was the attempt to overturn the election of Biden and Harris. Nothing legal about it. And that is even more important to prosecute.
+1

After months of taking exception to our pointing out that there was a disproportionate # of military vets and current or ex law enforcement personnel in the vanguard of the action, pooh poohing that there was any organization, Salty now wants to label these a-holes as just incompetents...and focus our attention on why the Capitol Police didn't open fire on the crowd, them darn incompetents defending the Capitol...all really to just draw attention from the BIG Crime, the actual effort to overthrow the election..

We were one man away from a Constitutional crisis. And before Pence's ultimate call to separate from that effort, teetering as he was, there were a series of other honest GOP officials who pushed back, any one or two of which going the other way might well have given Pence sufficient pretext to tilt the other way. Competing elector slates...throw it back to the State Legislatures...or better yet, directly to the House...Trump remains POTUS.

We were, really, really close.

But hey, "squirrel"...
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by youthathletics »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:43 pm
RedFromMI wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:33 pm The dissembling here is amazing. The need for the action at the Capitol was to delay the certification of the electoral college to give time to persuade Pence and others to steal the election by overturning legitimate votes.

The real sedition was the attempt to overturn the election of Biden and Harris. Nothing legal about it. And that is even more important to prosecute.
+1

We were, really, really close.

But hey, "squirrel"...
Close? :roll: Lemma guess, you sleep with the lights on? ;)
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by seacoaster »

youthathletics wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:47 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:43 pm
RedFromMI wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:33 pm The dissembling here is amazing. The need for the action at the Capitol was to delay the certification of the electoral college to give time to persuade Pence and others to steal the election by overturning legitimate votes.

The real sedition was the attempt to overturn the election of Biden and Harris. Nothing legal about it. And that is even more important to prosecute.
+1

We were, really, really close.

But hey, "squirrel"...
Close? :roll: Lemma guess, you sleep with the lights on? ;)
The President of the United States, defeated in an election, asked his supporters to march on the Capitol and impede the certification of the electoral votes of the states, while orchestrating the delivery of the counter-certification of fake electors, pressuring the individual state election functionaries to change votes or find them for him, and pressuring the VP to act unlawfully in his role in the certification process. What is wrong with you? Mocking people like a twelve year old is not only unbecoming; it's just either grossly partisan, or really stupid, or both.
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

seacoaster wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:56 pm
youthathletics wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:47 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:43 pm
RedFromMI wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:33 pm The dissembling here is amazing. The need for the action at the Capitol was to delay the certification of the electoral college to give time to persuade Pence and others to steal the election by overturning legitimate votes.

The real sedition was the attempt to overturn the election of Biden and Harris. Nothing legal about it. And that is even more important to prosecute.
+1

We were, really, really close.

But hey, "squirrel"...
Close? :roll: Lemma guess, you sleep with the lights on? ;)
The President of the United States, defeated in an election, asked his supporters to march on the Capitol and impede the certification of the electoral votes of the states, while orchestrating the delivery of the counter-certification of fake electors, pressuring the individual state election functionaries to change votes or find them for him, and pressuring the VP to act unlawfully in his role in the certification process. What is wrong with you? Mocking people like a twelve year old is not only unbecoming; it's just either grossly partisan, or really stupid, or both.
Who is keeping score?
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by youthathletics »

seacoaster wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:56 pm
youthathletics wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:47 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:43 pm
RedFromMI wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:33 pm The dissembling here is amazing. The need for the action at the Capitol was to delay the certification of the electoral college to give time to persuade Pence and others to steal the election by overturning legitimate votes.

The real sedition was the attempt to overturn the election of Biden and Harris. Nothing legal about it. And that is even more important to prosecute.
+1

We were, really, really close.

But hey, "squirrel"...
Close? :roll: Lemma guess, you sleep with the lights on? ;)
The President of the United States, defeated in an election, asked his supporters to march on the Capitol and impede the certification of the electoral votes of the states, while orchestrating the delivery of the counter-certification of fake electors, pressuring the individual state election functionaries to change votes or find them for him, and pressuring the VP to act unlawfully in his role in the certification process. What is wrong with you? Mocking people like a twelve year old is not only unbecoming; it's just either grossly partisan, or really stupid, or both.
So now the both of you sleep with lights on. ;) :lol:
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by old salt »

dislaxxic wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 8:22 am
old salt wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:59 pmMy point has always been, & remains, that this cast of clowns was not competent enough to pull off a coup, insurrection, junta, or whatever you want to call it, that could overturn the results of the election, prevent a transition to Biden, or keep Trump in office. ...no matter how many guns they left in their VA hotel.
Myopic and ignorant beyond belief. The fact that so many trumpists feel this way is yet ANOTHER way that disinformation and tribal information silos just funnel these people full of stupid. What do they hear when they hear Peter Navarro describe the green Bay Sweep? Navarro FLAT OUT STATES that they wanted to throw the election back to the state legislatures. The "Cast of Clowns" whipped up by the Ultimate Clown, certainly worked as a great smoke screen for the insurrection going on all around and behind the outrage patina "Show Coup" going on at the capitol.

What's worse, if left to the narrative this poster prefers, our country is heading to a very dark place, tout suite.

..
Navarro also says that the violence of the cast of clowns scuttled his & Bannon's Green Bay sweep, not that it had any chance of working under any circumstances.
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by old salt »

RedFromMI wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 12:10 pm
The fundamental flaw was not the voter as much as the lack of good punch technology to make the selection. Notice how an actual hole puncher has a mating surface on the back side to guarantee the piece of removed paper/cardboard is completely removed. No such technology in a mailed or in person ballot - just some sort of lance to poke out the punch. Guaranteed to sometimes not completely remove the chad.

I once voted absentee using just that tech - 1976 election. I knew as a computer operator in the evenings at my college to look for the pieces, but someone who had never handled Hollerith cards would not necessarily know to do so.

The advantage was if punched correctly it made counting electronically possible, and allowed the retirement of big mechanical voting machines. But quite prone to failure.
I voted absentee the same way. The punch card ballots I received came with a thin foam pad. If you placed the ballot on the pad on a hard surface, it was ez to completely sever the chad using the stylus provided, which was just a short, straight piece of paper clip wire. There was also an illustrated instruction on how to do it with a note to make sure the chad was completely removed.
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Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Post by old salt »

PizzaSnake wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:03 pm
old salt wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:59 pm
Kismet wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:00 pm
jhu72 wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:16 pm ... well you know there are special exemptions in the sedition laws for being incompetent and stupid. :lol: :lol:
The relevant Federal statutes

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?pat ... ion=prelim

I don't see any exemptions for stupidity and incompetence.
So what ? I've never said they should not be prosecuted. I look forward to those morons going to jail.

My point has always been, & remains, that this cast of clowns was not competent enough to pull off a coup, insurrection, junta, or whatever you want to call it, that could overturn the results of the election, prevent a transition to Biden, or keep Trump in office. ...no matter how many guns they left in their VA hotel.

The violence of Jan 6 succeeded as much as it did because of the incompetent defense of the Capitol.

A slight tweak of the ECA will stop idiots like Eastman from conjuring up bizarre theories about how to gum up the certification process.

Basic security measures are already in place, sufficient to protect & defend the Capitol, now that the CPB has been empowered & somewhat depoliticized & the Mayor & (D)'s can no longer b!tch about common sense security measures being "militarized". Now they love having the DC NG on every street corner.
And what would describe this competence? Say, shooting dead the “protestors” who were imperiling the police through their attacks? Or were my lying eyes deceiving me as I watched it unfold? Sell that equivocal BS elsewhere. Your hypocrisy is staggering in its persistence. You might want to reflect on why it is you remain so steadfast in these mistaken beliefs. No one can “make” you accept reality, you need to do that yourself. I guess old habits die hard.
Take the same precautions they now take for any large demonstration in DC. The same precautions taken for any NSSE.
The difference, the Secret Service & DoJ are in charge of security for NSSE's. Congress & the DC Mayor are in charge of day to day security for the Capitol & adjacent DC streets. They made such a big deal about the overly "militaristic" security measures taken for the riots of the previous summer that they refused to give the Capitol Police the obvious assets needed & requested to provide basic security for the Capitol.
Do you think the Capitol is as vulnerable today as it was on Jan 6th. The DC NG have gone home. The lamp posts of DC are unguarded again.
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