~46~ President Biden ~46~

[a fan]

Again: what do you think America would have looked like had we spent all our Federal Highway Dollars on rails, instead of asphalt?

Siberia

https://www.thetranssiberiantravelcompa ... e-options/

https://www.quora.com/Why-is-the-US-so- ... d-by-train

So without massive, massive Federal spending to subsidize travel on asphalt.....you think the US would be Siberia.

Keep telling ya.....you should have been voting for Bernie, and championing his ideas all these years.

[get it to x]

Actually the most basic function of government is to protect us from invasion. Infrastructure was a state (or private) function until the interstate system began.

Right. And why did Eisenhower pass that intial bill? Military mobility, remember?

This current bill is a mish mash of crap we have no business doing, like EV charging stations. Did the federal gov build your local Exxon station. How many EV's would be sold without a tax credit?

You're forgetting that Americans CHOSE to subsidize gas-cars. Who pays for all those asphalt roads? The .gov. Why? Why aren't they all a network of private roads, owned and managed by private companies?

You're taking the largest handout in the history of our country, and taking it for granted. Picture what America would look like if we had, instead, pumped all those Trillions and trillions of dollars for roads and instead.....built rails?

You want to end subsidies for cars? Simply way to do that----sell all the asphalt roads in America to private interests. I don't think you'll like what that does to our country, but I'll try anything once!

And what good is infrastructure if Biden is going to basically fire a whole lot of truckers with his vax mandate? You think store shelves are bare now, just wait.

They're bare now because people all over the globe are getting Covid, and missing work, Get it to X. And it's not a vaxx mandate...it's a vaccinate OR test and mask mandate. Not the same thing.

I'm against a vaxx mandate.

Don't knock rails. Have you ever seen how may containers are in the consist of a double stacked freight train. Between 200-300. If you see them with multiple locomotives, sometimes in the middle or end, only the lead engine has a crew. The others are computer controlled and called Distributed Power Units. Saves CSX, UP, BNSF et al labor cost they can put to their private bottom line profit. The only unprofitable rail is run by Uncle Sugar.

I'm not knocking rails----just the opposite!

Again: what do you think America would have looked like had we spent all our Federal Highway Dollars on rails, instead of asphalt?

We CHOSE to subsidize gas cars.

Trains only go where trains go. Cars give us freedom. When I was young I pictured myself checking out and driving to California in a Corvette convertible with nothing but a suitcase and a hibachi. Oh, the naivete of youth!

[old salt]

Again: what do you think America would have looked like had we spent all our Federal Highway Dollars on rails, instead of asphalt?

Siberia

https://www.thetranssiberiantravelcompa ... e-options/

https://www.quora.com/Why-is-the-US-so- ... d-by-train

So without massive, massive Federal spending to subsidize travel on asphalt.....you think the US would be Siberia.

Keep telling ya.....you should have been voting for Bernie, and championing his ideas all these years.

Your primary transportation has to move both people & freight.
Rail is great for freight, but too inflexible for moving people in a country as large & dispersed as the US.

As a kid in the 50's (before I-70 opened), I rode Greyhound/Continental Trailways, the Penn RR, TWA Super Connie, or our '51 Ford on US-40, every summer from StL to Pittsburgh & back. The advent of cost competitive jet aircraft (B-707/DC-8) rendered all other modes non-competetive.

Fortunately we had the interstate system to allow flexible movement of freight (to/from railheads & ship/barge access points).
It made it possible to open up the rest of the country to development & population growth/migration, that rail travel & connecting public transportation could not cost effectively provide.

[a fan]

Trains only go where trains go. Cars give us freedom. When I was young I pictured myself checking out and driving to California in a Corvette convertible with nothing but a suitcase and a hibachi. Oh, the naivete of youth!

Yes.

But to the point for the forums conservatives: in NO case does that mean that the government MUST pay for that car freedom. The free market should pay for the road to California, if you're a real, small government conservative.

But that's not what happened, right? We chose socialized roads, instead of privately owned and operated.

So again....griping about subsidies for electrical cars? That horse left the barn long before I was born......

[a fan]

Again: what do you think America would have looked like had we spent all our Federal Highway Dollars on rails, instead of asphalt?

Siberia

https://www.thetranssiberiantravelcompa ... e-options/

https://www.quora.com/Why-is-the-US-so- ... d-by-train

So without massive, massive Federal spending to subsidize travel on asphalt.....you think the US would be Siberia.

Keep telling ya.....you should have been voting for Bernie, and championing his ideas all these years.

Your primary transportation has to move both people & freight.
Rail is great for freight, but too inflexible for moving people in a country as large & dispersed as the US.

It's dispersed here in 2022 BECAUSE we pumped tax dollars into roads for 60 years and counting, OS. That's the point here.

Subsidies. Massive, massive subsidies. So complaining about subsidies for electric cars is.....a bit much. And shows a lack of understanding of American history, and what shaped our lands and cities.

As a kid in the 50's (before I-70 opened), I rode Greyhound/Continental Trailways, the Penn RR, TWA Super Connie, or our '51 Ford on US-40, every summer from StL to Pittsburgh & back. The advent of cost competitive jet aircraft (B-707/DC-8) rendered all other modes non-competetive.

Fortunately we had the interstate system to allow flexible movement of freight (to/from railheads & ship/barge access points).
It made it possible to open up the rest of the country to development & population growth/migration, that rail travel & connecting public transportation could not cost effectively provide.

Again, this is all big government talk. That's fine, of course, but...... this is Bernie Sanders talking here.

Look at this thread, and the reaction of the board's 2022 Republicans and the mere idea of investing in what you just described. They've all moved so far to the right, that they don't believe in safe bridges and roads anymore. it's nuts.

[old salt]

Again: what do you think America would have looked like had we spent all our Federal Highway Dollars on rails, instead of asphalt?

Siberia

https://www.thetranssiberiantravelcompa ... e-options/

https://www.quora.com/Why-is-the-US-so- ... d-by-train

So without massive, massive Federal spending to subsidize travel on asphalt.....you think the US would be Siberia.

Keep telling ya.....you should have been voting for Bernie, and championing his ideas all these years.

Your primary transportation has to move both people & freight.
Rail is great for freight, but too inflexible for moving people in a country as large & dispersed as the US.

It's dispersed here in 2022 BECAUSE we pumped tax dollars into roads for 60 years and counting, OS. That's the point here.
We've paid billions in gas taxes to maintain the Interstates & still are. Tolls collected at the gas pump.

Subsidies. Massive, massive subsidies. So complaining about subsidies for electric cars is.....a bit much. And shows a lack of understanding of American history, and what shaped our lands and cities.Electric vehicles are not necessary. They are a choice & they are not yet a practical choice.

As a kid in the 50's (before I-70 opened), I rode Greyhound/Continental Trailways, the Penn RR, TWA Super Connie, or our '51 Ford on US-40, every summer from StL to Pittsburgh & back. The advent of cost competitive jet aircraft (B-707/DC-8) rendered all other modes non-competetive.

Fortunately we had the interstate system to allow flexible movement of freight (to/from railheads & ship/barge access points).
It made it possible to open up the rest of the country to development & population growth/migration, that rail travel & connecting public transportation could not cost effectively provide.

Again, this is all big government talk. That's fine, of course, but...... this is Bernie Sanders talking here.
What is your idea of limited govt ? Dirt rods, horses & buggies ? Population crammed into mega-cities, dependent upon public transportation. I can see why you'd like that - much easier to control the population & dictate to them.

Look at this thread, and the reaction of the board's 2022 Republicans and the mere idea of investing in what you just described. They've all moved so far to the right, that they don't believe in safe bridges and roads anymore. it's nuts.
BIB was a bi-partisan bill. It would not have happened without (R) votes. Even then, it took billions in climate change ransom to get transportaion infrastructure funded.

[get it to x]

Again: what do you think America would have looked like had we spent all our Federal Highway Dollars on rails, instead of asphalt?

Siberia

https://www.thetranssiberiantravelcompa ... e-options/

https://www.quora.com/Why-is-the-US-so- ... d-by-train

So without massive, massive Federal spending to subsidize travel on asphalt.....you think the US would be Siberia.

Keep telling ya.....you should have been voting for Bernie, and championing his ideas all these years.

Your primary transportation has to move both people & freight.
Rail is great for freight, but too inflexible for moving people in a country as large & dispersed as the US.

It's dispersed here in 2022 BECAUSE we pumped tax dollars into roads for 60 years and counting, OS. That's the point here.
We've paid billions in gas taxes to maintain the Interstates & still are. Tolls collected at the gas pump.

Subsidies. Massive, massive subsidies. So complaining about subsidies for electric cars is.....a bit much. And shows a lack of understanding of American history, and what shaped our lands and cities.Electric vehicles are not necessary. They are a choice & they are not yet a practical choice.

As a kid in the 50's (before I-70 opened), I rode Greyhound/Continental Trailways, the Penn RR, TWA Super Connie, or our '51 Ford on US-40, every summer from StL to Pittsburgh & back. The advent of cost competitive jet aircraft (B-707/DC-8) rendered all other modes non-competetive.

Fortunately we had the interstate system to allow flexible movement of freight (to/from railheads & ship/barge access points).
It made it possible to open up the rest of the country to development & population growth/migration, that rail travel & connecting public transportation could not cost effectively provide.

Again, this is all big government talk. That's fine, of course, but...... this is Bernie Sanders talking here.
What is your idea of limited govt ? Dirt rods, horses & buggies ? Population crammed into mega-cities, dependent upon public transportation. I can see why you'd like that - much easier to control the population & dictate to them.

Look at this thread, and the reaction of the board's 2022 Republicans and the mere idea of investing in what you just described. They've all moved so far to the right, that they don't believe in safe bridges and roads anymore. it's nuts.
BIB was a bi-partisan bill. It would not have happened without (R) votes. Even then, it took billions in climate change ransom to get transportaion infrastructure funded.

Old Salt is correct. A lot of money thrown at unproven issues using unproven technologies as long as a percent or two are redirected back upstream.

[get it to x]

Again: what do you think America would have looked like had we spent all our Federal Highway Dollars on rails, instead of asphalt?

Siberia

https://www.thetranssiberiantravelcompa ... e-options/

https://www.quora.com/Why-is-the-US-so- ... d-by-train

So without massive, massive Federal spending to subsidize travel on asphalt.....you think the US would be Siberia.

Keep telling ya.....you should have been voting for Bernie, and championing his ideas all these years.

Your primary transportation has to move both people & freight.
Rail is great for freight, but too inflexible for moving people in a country as large & dispersed as the US.

It's dispersed here in 2022 BECAUSE we pumped tax dollars into roads for 60 years and counting, OS. That's the point here.
We've paid billions in gas taxes to maintain the Interstates & still are. Tolls collected at the gas pump.

Subsidies. Massive, massive subsidies. So complaining about subsidies for electric cars is.....a bit much. And shows a lack of understanding of American history, and what shaped our lands and cities.Electric vehicles are not necessary. They are a choice & they are not yet a practical choice.

As a kid in the 50's (before I-70 opened), I rode Greyhound/Continental Trailways, the Penn RR, TWA Super Connie, or our '51 Ford on US-40, every summer from StL to Pittsburgh & back. The advent of cost competitive jet aircraft (B-707/DC-8) rendered all other modes non-competetive.

Fortunately we had the interstate system to allow flexible movement of freight (to/from railheads & ship/barge access points).
It made it possible to open up the rest of the country to development & population growth/migration, that rail travel & connecting public transportation could not cost effectively provide.

Again, this is all big government talk. That's fine, of course, but...... this is Bernie Sanders talking here.
What is your idea of limited govt ? Dirt rods, horses & buggies ? Population crammed into mega-cities, dependent upon public transportation. I can see why you'd like that - much easier to control the population & dictate to them.

Look at this thread, and the reaction of the board's 2022 Republicans and the mere idea of investing in what you just described. They've all moved so far to the right, that they don't believe in safe bridges and roads anymore. it's nuts.
BIB was a bi-partisan bill. It would not have happened without (R) votes. Even then, it took billions in climate change ransom to get transportaion infrastructure funded.

Old Salt is correct. A lot of money thrown at unproven issues using unproven technologies as long as a percent or two are redirected back upstream.

[a fan]

Again: what do you think America would have looked like had we spent all our Federal Highway Dollars on rails, instead of asphalt?

Siberia

https://www.thetranssiberiantravelcompa ... e-options/

https://www.quora.com/Why-is-the-US-so- ... d-by-train

So without massive, massive Federal spending to subsidize travel on asphalt.....you think the US would be Siberia.

Keep telling ya.....you should have been voting for Bernie, and championing his ideas all these years.

Your primary transportation has to move both people & freight.
Rail is great for freight, but too inflexible for moving people in a country as large & dispersed as the US.

It's dispersed here in 2022 BECAUSE we pumped tax dollars into roads for 60 years and counting, OS. That's the point here.
We've paid billions in gas taxes to maintain the Interstates & still are. Tolls collected at the gas pump.

Subsidies. Massive, massive subsidies. So complaining about subsidies for electric cars is.....a bit much. And shows a lack of understanding of American history, and what shaped our lands and cities.Electric vehicles are not necessary. They are a choice & they are not yet a practical choice.

As a kid in the 50's (before I-70 opened), I rode Greyhound/Continental Trailways, the Penn RR, TWA Super Connie, or our '51 Ford on US-40, every summer from StL to Pittsburgh & back. The advent of cost competitive jet aircraft (B-707/DC-8) rendered all other modes non-competetive.

Fortunately we had the interstate system to allow flexible movement of freight (to/from railheads & ship/barge access points).
It made it possible to open up the rest of the country to development & population growth/migration, that rail travel & connecting public transportation could not cost effectively provide.

Again, this is all big government talk. That's fine, of course, but...... this is Bernie Sanders talking here.
What is your idea of limited govt ? Dirt rods, horses & buggies ? Population crammed into mega-cities, dependent upon public transportation. I can see why you'd like that - much easier to control the population & dictate to them.

Look at this thread, and the reaction of the board's 2022 Republicans and the mere idea of investing in what you just described. They've all moved so far to the right, that they don't believe in safe bridges and roads anymore. it's nuts.
BIB was a bi-partisan bill. It would not have happened without (R) votes. Even then, it took billions in climate change ransom to get transportaion infrastructure funded.

Old Salt is correct. A lot of money thrown at unproven issues using unproven technologies as long as a percent or two are redirected back upstream.

It's how we landed on the moon, beat the *hit out of the Soviets in the Cold War, and became far and away, the leader of the free world. Best R&D on the planet, coupled with the best infrastructure.

What you two are telling me is: we don't do that sort of thing anymore. What happened to American exceptionalism? We're giving up because you guys want to save a point or two on taxes every year? Really?" I don't believe that.....

[a fan]

We've paid billions in gas taxes to maintain the Interstates & still are. Tolls collected at the gas pump.

Yes. Massive subsidies that favor gas cars over rails....you finally get it!

Electric vehicles are not necessary. They are a choice & they are not yet a practical choice.

Yes. And that's what railroad owners said about cars.....they get *hit mileage, and were rendered useless by rain on mud roads. Impractical.

Then the government stepped in, and MADE them practical. Sensing a pattern yet?

What is your idea of limited govt ? Dirt rods, horses & buggies ? Population crammed into mega-cities, dependent upon public transportation. I can see why you'd like that - much easier to control the population & dictate to them.

Hey, I'm not the guy who spent his career ordering people around. You got it backwards,

BIB was a bi-partisan bill. It would not have happened without (R) votes. Even then, it took billions in climate change ransom to get transportaion infrastructure funded.

Right. So what did we learn?

Next time, ask your party to get off their *ss, and pass an infrastructure bill that you won't complain about. I'd be DELIGHTED to see your team actually get off their *sses and GOVERN for a change.

[youthathletics]

Again: what do you think America would have looked like had we spent all our Federal Highway Dollars on rails, instead of asphalt?

Siberia

https://www.thetranssiberiantravelcompa ... e-options/

https://www.quora.com/Why-is-the-US-so- ... d-by-train

So without massive, massive Federal spending to subsidize travel on asphalt.....you think the US would be Siberia.

Keep telling ya.....you should have been voting for Bernie, and championing his ideas all these years.

Your primary transportation has to move both people & freight.
Rail is great for freight, but too inflexible for moving people in a country as large & dispersed as the US.

It's dispersed here in 2022 BECAUSE we pumped tax dollars into roads for 60 years and counting, OS. That's the point here.
We've paid billions in gas taxes to maintain the Interstates & still are. Tolls collected at the gas pump.

Subsidies. Massive, massive subsidies. So complaining about subsidies for electric cars is.....a bit much. And shows a lack of understanding of American history, and what shaped our lands and cities.Electric vehicles are not necessary. They are a choice & they are not yet a practical choice.

As a kid in the 50's (before I-70 opened), I rode Greyhound/Continental Trailways, the Penn RR, TWA Super Connie, or our '51 Ford on US-40, every summer from StL to Pittsburgh & back. The advent of cost competitive jet aircraft (B-707/DC-8) rendered all other modes non-competetive.

Fortunately we had the interstate system to allow flexible movement of freight (to/from railheads & ship/barge access points).
It made it possible to open up the rest of the country to development & population growth/migration, that rail travel & connecting public transportation could not cost effectively provide.

Again, this is all big government talk. That's fine, of course, but...... this is Bernie Sanders talking here.
What is your idea of limited govt ? Dirt rods, horses & buggies ? Population crammed into mega-cities, dependent upon public transportation. I can see why you'd like that - much easier to control the population & dictate to them.

Look at this thread, and the reaction of the board's 2022 Republicans and the mere idea of investing in what you just described. They've all moved so far to the right, that they don't believe in safe bridges and roads anymore. it's nuts.
BIB was a bi-partisan bill. It would not have happened without (R) votes. Even then, it took billions in climate change ransom to get transportaion infrastructure funded.

Old Salt is correct. A lot of money thrown at unproven issues using unproven technologies as long as a percent or two are redirected back upstream.

It's how we landed on the moon, beat the *hit out of the Soviets in the Cold War, and became far and away, the leader of the free world. Best R&D on the planet, coupled with the best infrastructure.

What you two are telling me is: we don't do that sort of thing anymore. What happened to American exceptionalism? We're giving up because you guys want to save a point or two on taxes every year? Really?" I don't believe that.....

Many of the talking heads on Bloomberg radio are poo-pooing all the cash being thrown at Amtrak in the bill. Saying we bail them out every damned year, the are investing millions trying to figure out the best meals to serve. I suppose there may be some give and take money laundering within the Amtrak to front load them with the agreement they industrialize for for better middle-mile transport of goods....while still catering to the east coast people moving. However, in the end......it is a currently a large CO2 burden on the climate change front, that they are also "so-called" worried about. Not to mention, here it is 2022 and we still have no mag-lev....we do a lot of talking out the side of our neck.

[cradleandshoot]

We've paid billions in gas taxes to maintain the Interstates & still are. Tolls collected at the gas pump.

Yes. Massive subsidies that favor gas cars over rails....you finally get it!

Electric vehicles are not necessary. They are a choice & they are not yet a practical choice.

Yes. And that's what railroad owners said about cars.....they get *hit mileage, and were rendered useless by rain on mud roads. Impractical.

Then the government stepped in, and MADE them practical. Sensing a pattern yet?

What is your idea of limited govt ? Dirt rods, horses & buggies ? Population crammed into mega-cities, dependent upon public transportation. I can see why you'd like that - much easier to control the population & dictate to them.

Hey, I'm not the guy who spent his career ordering people around. You got it backwards,

BIB was a bi-partisan bill. It would not have happened without (R) votes. Even then, it took billions in climate change ransom to get transportaion infrastructure funded.

Right. So what did we learn?

Next time, ask your party to get off their *ss, and pass an infrastructure bill that you won't complain about. I'd be DELIGHTED to see your team actually get off their *sses and GOVERN for a change.

Your opinion on EC is a bit disengenous. EC should be a choice. The government is pushing EC as being the only vehicles you will be allowed to buy and drive. Big government telling me what car I'm allowed to drive. What decision in the name of saving the planet will the government make for me next?

[MDlaxfan76]

want some cheese with that whine, cradle...ohh my, 20 years from now I will need to drive an electric car...

[cradleandshoot]

want some cheese with that whine, cradle...ohh my, 20 years from now I will need to drive an electric car...

I'll still be driving my little old Toyota Corolla if you will let me. BTW, is that an electric motor you have in your boat? Are you guzzling gas and polluting the waterways with your yacht? By the way, a sharp cheddar with my Chianti would be very nice.

[SCLaxAttack]

want some cheese with that whine, cradle...ohh my, 20 years from now I will need to drive an electric car...

I'll still be driving my little old Toyota Corolla if you will let me. BTW, is that an electric motor you have in your boat? Are you guzzling gas and polluting the waterways with your yacht? By the way, a sharp cheddar with my Chianti would be very nice.

I wish it was. https://randboats.com/

[a fan]

We've paid billions in gas taxes to maintain the Interstates & still are. Tolls collected at the gas pump.

Yes. Massive subsidies that favor gas cars over rails....you finally get it!

Electric vehicles are not necessary. They are a choice & they are not yet a practical choice.

Yes. And that's what railroad owners said about cars.....they get *hit mileage, and were rendered useless by rain on mud roads. Impractical.

Then the government stepped in, and MADE them practical. Sensing a pattern yet?

What is your idea of limited govt ? Dirt rods, horses & buggies ? Population crammed into mega-cities, dependent upon public transportation. I can see why you'd like that - much easier to control the population & dictate to them.

Hey, I'm not the guy who spent his career ordering people around. You got it backwards,

BIB was a bi-partisan bill. It would not have happened without (R) votes. Even then, it took billions in climate change ransom to get transportaion infrastructure funded.

Right. So what did we learn?

Next time, ask your party to get off their *ss, and pass an infrastructure bill that you won't complain about. I'd be DELIGHTED to see your team actually get off their *sses and GOVERN for a change.

Your opinion on EC is a bit disengenous. EC should be a choice. The government is pushing EC as being the only vehicles you will be allowed to buy and drive. Big government telling me what car I'm allowed to drive. What decision in the name of saving the planet will the government make for me next?

Again----this is PRECISELY what was said when we started using public funds at a level never seen before to pump money into government owned roads. If you were a conservative around WWII? You were LIVID that the taxpayer had to pay for asphalt roads, instead of letting private firms pay for it all, as they did with all those rail lines.

The US Government CHOSE gas cars as the winner. The US Government CHOSE to enable suburban sprawl that would have been unaffordable if the roads were all privately owned and operated.

We do this all the time. Heck, they tax my spirits at a higher rate than beer or wine, which obviously is a subsidy for wine and beer producers.

My point, obviously, is if we're going to say no to the EC car subsidies? Great. Then end ALL government subsidies....I'm 1000% on board with that.

We're not going to do that. Because of course we're not.

[MDlaxfan76]

want some cheese with that whine, cradle...ohh my, 20 years from now I will need to drive an electric car...

I'll still be driving my little old Toyota Corolla if you will let me. BTW, is that an electric motor you have in your boat? Are you guzzling gas and polluting the waterways with your yacht? By the way, a sharp cheddar with my Chianti would be very nice.

I don't currently have a boat, cradle, never owned a "yacht", but I'd be willing to bet that we get to an electric motor capacity with most of those vehicles as well.

[old salt]

It's how we landed on the moon, beat the *hit out of the Soviets in the Cold War, and became far and away, the leader of the free world. Best R&D on the planet, coupled with the best infrastructure.

What you two are telling me is: we don't do that sort of thing anymore. What happened to American exceptionalism? We're giving up because you guys want to save a point or two on taxes every year? Really?" I don't believe that.....

No. I'm telling you we shouldn't do stupid sh!t -- like spending billions on a national network of charging stations, while we have brown-outs every summer, & spending billions on EV's which still do not have batteries with adequate storage capacity to be practical.

Currently, there are limited applications where EV's might be practical, in vehicles which can spend lengthy periods unavailable while plugged in recharging. Still not there for long haul or all day use. Might work for school buses only used a few hours/day between charges, or short distance commuters.

You want a Project Apollo to make EV's practical ? If Elon Musk can't do it, the Gubment can't.

[cradleandshoot]

want some cheese with that whine, cradle...ohh my, 20 years from now I will need to drive an electric car...

I'll still be driving my little old Toyota Corolla if you will let me. BTW, is that an electric motor you have in your boat? Are you guzzling gas and polluting the waterways with your yacht? By the way, a sharp cheddar with my Chianti would be very nice.

I don't currently have a boat, cradle, never owned a "yacht", but I'd be willing to bet that we get to an electric motor capacity with most of those vehicles as well.

I'm more of a canoe guy. The propulsion system has never changed. I am sure your right. Those people at Evinrude and Mercury must be scrambling to develope new boat motors. No more gas cans in the boat. You will need one heavy duty battery. That also means all of those Marinas will have to install charging stations by the docks. FTR my former In Laws were all boat people, mostly SeaRays. If your boat was bigger than 20 feet and you could sleep on it overnight comfortably, it was a yacht. I read this a long time ago and is relevant to this conversation. The 2 happiest days of all boat owners.. buying your first boat and ultimately selling that first boat. I can now move on to a new vehicle for all you environmental speed demons. What happens with your snow mobiles? Will you even be able to hear an electric snow mobiles? Do all of those watering holes at Tug Hill need to install charging stations? Should they also be required to have interlock devices to prove your sober enough to drive your sled.

[get it to x]

want some cheese with that whine, cradle...ohh my, 20 years from now I will need to drive an electric car...

I'll still be driving my little old Toyota Corolla if you will let me. BTW, is that an electric motor you have in your boat? Are you guzzling gas and polluting the waterways with your yacht? By the way, a sharp cheddar with my Chianti would be very nice.

I don't currently have a boat, cradle, never owned a "yacht", but I'd be willing to bet that we get to an electric motor capacity with most of those vehicles as well.

I'm more of a canoe guy. The propulsion system has never changed. I am sure your right. Those people at Evinrude and Mercury must be scrambling to develope new boat motors. No more gas cans in the boat. You will need one heavy duty battery. That also means all of those Marinas will have to install charging stations by the docks. FTR my former In Laws were all boat people, mostly SeaRays. If your boat was bigger than 20 feet and you could sleep on it overnight comfortably, it was a yacht. I read this a long time ago and is relevant to this conversation. The 2 happiest days of all boat owners.. buying your first boat and ultimately selling that first boat. I can now move on to a new vehicle for all you environmental speed demons. What happens with your snow mobiles? Will you even be able to hear an electric snow mobiles? Do all of those watering holes at Tug Hill need to install charging stations? Should they also be required to have interlock devices to prove your sober enough to drive your sled.

A bigger point here is being missed. This is not the government's money, it is our money. We willingly give it to them and they in turn are expected to be good stewards of the money. We are frogs in a pot, watching them spend our money in ever more ridiculous ways, from grants for useless scientific experiments (shrimp on a treadmill, anyone) to boondoggles like EV charging when the underlying technology is far from advanced enough to proceed. I asked my neighbor back in MD where his Prius battery was going when the car died and he looked at me with a blank stare. We live too much in the moment, and it's a built in feature of government. Our problem is our representatives have a 2 or 6 year time horizon, whereas we all hope ours is way longer than that.