National HS tourneys, Farmington CT and Columbia, MD

HS Girls Lacrosse
totc
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National HS tourneys, Farmington CT and Columbia, MD

Post by totc »

Hi, all.

Anyone see this?

https://topofthecircle.wordpress.com/20 ... s-concept/

These tournaments, to be sure, are ambitious. But the school therein play in states which tend to be restrictive in how many games a team can play in a week, or in a day. In addition, they are taking place after the closing dates of competition in several of the states involved.

I'd like to see a tournament like this be held in Georgia or North Carolina just after the end of the Florida-SC-GA seasons and right when most other states begin.
Last edited by totc on Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dr. Tact
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Re: HS National Championship, Farmington, Conn.

Post by Dr. Tact »

totc wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:07 pm Hi, all.

Anyone see this?

https://www.girlslaxchampionship.com/at ... gh-schools

It's ambitious, to be sure. But I know that some of these schools play in states which are extremely restrictive in how many games a team can play in a week, or in a day. In addition, this tournament is taking place after the closing dates of competition in several of the states involved.

I'd like to see a tournament like this be held in Georgia or North Carolina just after the end of the Florida-SC-GA seasons and right when most other states begin.
No teams south of Delaware? Sounds like a NE championship with a few outliers.
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Matnum PI
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Re: HS National Championship, Farmington, Conn.

Post by Matnum PI »

wow. that's a lot of teams. and a lot of good teams.
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totc
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Re: HS National Championship, Farmington, Conn.

Post by totc »

Dr. Tact wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 8:41 am
totc wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:07 pm Hi, all.

Anyone see this?

https://www.girlslaxchampionship.com/at ... gh-schools

It's ambitious, to be sure. But I know that some of these schools play in states which are extremely restrictive in how many games a team can play in a week, or in a day. In addition, this tournament is taking place after the closing dates of competition in several of the states involved.

I'd like to see a tournament like this be held in Georgia or North Carolina just after the end of the Florida-SC-GA seasons and right when most other states begin.
No teams south of Delaware? Sounds like a NE championship with a few outliers.

I think (for at least this year), it is a reflection of the fact that the Fla-SC-GA players are already in the midst of their club seasons.
totc
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Re: HS National Championship, Farmington, Conn.

Post by totc »

Matnum PI wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 8:53 am wow. that's a lot of teams. and a lot of good teams.
Nobody from the IAAM, though. Or from Virginia or the District of Columbia. But this is an OK start. Got to walk before you can run.

Still, if I was to start something like this, you HAVE to involve McDonogh, even though they were the silver-medalists this year.
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Matnum PI
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Re: HS National Championship, Farmington, Conn.

Post by Matnum PI »

totc wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:09 pm ...Still, if I was to start something like this, you HAVE to involve McDonogh, even though they were the silver-medalists this year.
No MD teams. Not small...
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hmmm
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Re: HS National Championship, Farmington, Conn.

Post by hmmm »

totc wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:09 pm
Matnum PI wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 8:53 am wow. that's a lot of teams. and a lot of good teams.
Nobody from the IAAM, though. Or from Virginia or the District of Columbia. But this is an OK start. Got to walk before you can run.

Still, if I was to start something like this, you HAVE to involve McDonogh, even though they were the silver-medalists this year.
There is a separate HS Tournament that the MD teams are playing in in a couple weeks. Would be great if all the teams were in the same tournament but travel for MD HS teams up to CT isn't really feasible with a lot of players having club tournaments on weekends and same for LI teams coming down to MD for the NHSLS.

www.nhsls.com/girls
njbill
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Re: HS National Championship, Farmington, Conn.

Post by njbill »

Of the 39 teams listed in the Conn. tourney, 21 are from New England.

Upstate (sec. 3, 5) 5
NY sec. 1 2
Island 3
RI 1
CT 11
MA 6
Oregon 2
NH 3
Del. 1
Ill. 1
NJ 3
PA 1

Really hard to tell who the good teams are this year (except within the same region/state) due to the almost complete lack of interregional play. The computer thinks SPSG is the best team in the country as do some of the sponsored polls. Are they? Hard (really impossible) to say without interregional competition.

In NJ, the current top three teams are not attending.

Wonder if they even sent invites to the teams south of PA/DE?

Historically, Md. schools have not traveled north to play, with some exceptions. And if they have their own local tournament, all the more reason not to head north. BTW, the Maryland tournament doesn't list the attendees. Seems odd given that the event is supposed to start in a couple of weeks.

But, yeah, it's tough to call this a national HS tournament without any Md. schools or (from what I can gather) the top Island teams this year.

totc, I would think this tourney is not subject to state HS sports rules since it looks like it is being held after the glax season ends. Haven't made any inquiries, but I would doubt school/AD approval is needed. In effect, this is a club event with the participants perhaps using their school names. Which leads to -- what are the roster rules? Do players have to have been on a school's varsity roster? Honor system?

Just eye balling the list, it isn't nearly as strong as the national indoor event that has been held in January the past five years or so. The roster of teams at that tourney is always very impressive.
hmmm
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Re: HS National Championship, Farmington, Conn.

Post by hmmm »

njbill wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:50 pm Of the 39 teams listed in the Conn. tourney, 21 are from New England.

Upstate (sec. 3, 5) 5
NY sec. 1 2
Island 3
RI 1
CT 11
MA 6
Oregon 2
NH 3
Del. 1
Ill. 1
NJ 3
PA 1

Really hard to tell who the good teams are this year (except within the same region/state) due to the almost complete lack of interregional play. The computer thinks SPSG is the best team in the country as do some of the sponsored polls. Are they? Hard (really impossible) to say without interregional competition.

In NJ, the current top three teams are not attending.

Wonder if they even sent invites to the teams south of PA/DE?

Historically, Md. schools have not traveled north to play, with some exceptions. And if they have their own local tournament, all the more reason not to head north. BTW, the Maryland tournament doesn't list the attendees. Seems odd given that the event is supposed to start in a couple of weeks.

But, yeah, it's tough to call this a national HS tournament without any Md. schools or (from what I can gather) the top Island teams this year.

totc, I would think this tourney is not subject to state HS sports rules since it looks like it is being held after the glax season ends. Haven't made any inquiries, but I would doubt school/AD approval is needed. In effect, this is a club event with the participants perhaps using their school names. Which leads to -- what are the roster rules? Do players have to have been on a school's varsity roster? Honor system?

Just eye balling the list, it isn't nearly as strong as the national indoor event that has been held in January the past five years or so. The roster of teams at that tourney is always very impressive.
SPSG beat BBP, NDP, SSSA and Archbishop Carroll in the indoor tournament on their way to winning the championship. They also blew out Conestoga in the Fall and Georgetown Visitation this spring. They have plenty of out of region wins. Add that to beating McD by a combined score of 33-17 I think they have a pretty good case to be #1. They have 16 D1 commits and 3 girls that have already been announced as Senior UA All-Americans.

You can see the list of teams registered for NHSLS by clicking on the registration link on the website.
njbill
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Re: HS National Championship, Farmington, Conn.

Post by njbill »

hmmm wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:33 am SPSG beat BBP, NDP, SSSA and Archbishop Carroll in the indoor tournament on their way to winning the championship. They also blew out Conestoga in the Fall and Georgetown Visitation this spring. They have plenty of out of region wins. Add that to beating McD by a combined score of 33-17 I think they have a pretty good case to be #1. They have 16 D1 commits and 3 girls that have already been announced as Senior UA All-Americans.

You can see the list of teams registered for NHSLS by clicking on the registration link on the website.
St. Paul's certainly has a good case for no. 1, but there is insufficient data to give them, or anyone, the crown this year. 2017 was the last year I did national rankings. If I were still doing them, I wouldn't do them this year because there wasn't enough competition, particularly interregional contests.

The only competition you take into account is varsity games this spring. Indoor doesn't count. A fall scrimmage (?) doesn't count. (Never have heard of HS glax fall ball (maybe some teams were allowed to do that last fall).) A spring scrimmage against the Visis doesn't count. (I assume this was a scrimmage (if the teams in fact did meet) as it isn't listed as a game on either SPSG's or GV's website or on the Nike/Lax mag or Laxnumbers sites.)

Beating McDonogh still has some cache, but the Eagles aren't the McD of old. When is the last time they lost three games in their own league? Before Chris Robinson took over in 2005, that's when. He never lost three league games in one year.

St. Paul's also lost to Notre Dame Prep in its own league. In fact, they only played teams in their own league this year. Didn't even play any Md. publics. If a team doesn't even venture outside its own league (not a criticism in this Covid year), and loses a game in its league, you can't say unequivocally that they are national no. 1.

And what about the Island? What is the basis for saying SPSG should be ranked ahead of all the Island teams?

And BTW St. Paul's is not one of the Maryland teams that won't travel north (I'm looking at you, McDonogh (pre-TC)). They came up to Moorestown twice and went up to the One Love tournament on the Island once where they got beat by Manhasset (I was at the game). Different year to be sure, but without playing an Island team, how can you say SPSG is no. 1 this year? Answer: you can't.

Thanks for the info on the Md. tourney. Looks like a private school tourney (one public?), predominantly IAAM. I note two teams (Penn Charter and Greenwich Acad.) are playing in both the Conn. and Md. tourneys. I saw PC this year. Good team, but they won't win the Md. event.
watcherinthewoods
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Re: HS National Championship, Farmington, Conn.

Post by watcherinthewoods »

Dr. Tact wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 8:41 am
totc wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:07 pm Hi, all.

Anyone see this?

https://www.girlslaxchampionship.com/at ... gh-schools

It's ambitious, to be sure. But I know that some of these schools play in states which are extremely restrictive in how many games a team can play in a week, or in a day. In addition, this tournament is taking place after the closing dates of competition in several of the states involved.

I'd like to see a tournament like this be held in Georgia or North Carolina just after the end of the Florida-SC-GA seasons and right when most other states begin.
No teams south of Delaware? Sounds like a NE championship with a few outliers.

penn charter could not even win their conference tourney in 2021. Nice team and top 10 in pa, but not sure they can be counted as part of the group that decides the national championship.
8meterPA
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Re: HS National Championship, Farmington, Conn.

Post by 8meterPA »

watcherinthewoods wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:48 am
Dr. Tact wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 8:41 am
totc wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:07 pm Hi, all.

Anyone see this?

https://www.girlslaxchampionship.com/at ... gh-schools

It's ambitious, to be sure. But I know that some of these schools play in states which are extremely restrictive in how many games a team can play in a week, or in a day. In addition, this tournament is taking place after the closing dates of competition in several of the states involved.

I'd like to see a tournament like this be held in Georgia or North Carolina just after the end of the Florida-SC-GA seasons and right when most other states begin.
No teams south of Delaware? Sounds like a NE championship with a few outliers.

penn charter could not even win their conference tourney in 2021. Nice team and top 10 in pa, but not sure they can be counted as part of the group that decides the national championship.
PC lost their conference championship by 1 to Agnes Irwin. During the regular season PC & AIS split their 2 games, each winning by 1 goal. So they are pretty even in terms of rankings. PC is definitely ranked in the top 5 in PA (AIS, PC, Radnor, Archbishop Carrol, Conestoga).

Having said that, it's a down year in PA for girls lacrosse, I personally don't feel they have a top 20 national team. There's typically some playdays with the MD and NY teams but not this year because of COVID limited schedules. PC should be competitive in the national tournament but won't make any noise (but fairly certain they would beat Moorestown!)
wahoomurf
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Re: HS National Championship, Farmington, Conn.

Post by wahoomurf »

Invitational criteria? State or local Championship results or anyone can come if your team can FOOT THE BILL?
watcherinthewoods
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Re: HS National Championship, Farmington, Conn.

Post by watcherinthewoods »

8meterPA wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:55 pm
watcherinthewoods wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:48 am
Dr. Tact wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 8:41 am
totc wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:07 pm Hi, all.

Anyone see this?

https://www.girlslaxchampionship.com/at ... gh-schools

It's ambitious, to be sure. But I know that some of these schools play in states which are extremely restrictive in how many games a team can play in a week, or in a day. In addition, this tournament is taking place after the closing dates of competition in several of the states involved.

I'd like to see a tournament like this be held in Georgia or North Carolina just after the end of the Florida-SC-GA seasons and right when most other states begin.
No teams south of Delaware? Sounds like a NE championship with a few outliers.

penn charter could not even win their conference tourney in 2021. Nice team and top 10 in pa, but not sure they can be counted as part of the group that decides the national championship.
PC lost their conference championship by 1 to Agnes Irwin. During the regular season PC & AIS split their 2 games, each winning by 1 goal. So they are pretty even in terms of rankings. PC is definitely ranked in the top 5 in PA (AIS, PC, Radnor, Archbishop Carrol, Conestoga).

Having said that, it's a down year in PA for girls lacrosse, I personally don't feel they have a top 20 national team. There's typically some playdays with the MD and NY teams but not this year because of COVID limited schedules. PC should be competitive in the national tournament but won't make any noise (but fairly certain they would beat Moorestown!)
Note I did not call out other pa teams as potential participants, so we agree in that. As you say hard to gage without out of state games. And Stoga struggled mightily down the stretch … so to be fair in the state this season you have to throw in strath haven and possibly Unionville. I stand by my PC in the top 10, not 5. Addis from radnor absolutely coach of the year, followed by Duckenfield out of O’Hara.
8meterPA
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Re: HS National Championship, Farmington, Conn.

Post by 8meterPA »

watcherinthewoods wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 1:35 pm
8meterPA wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:55 pm
watcherinthewoods wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:48 am
Dr. Tact wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 8:41 am
totc wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:07 pm Hi, all.

Anyone see this?

https://www.girlslaxchampionship.com/at ... gh-schools

It's ambitious, to be sure. But I know that some of these schools play in states which are extremely restrictive in how many games a team can play in a week, or in a day. In addition, this tournament is taking place after the closing dates of competition in several of the states involved.

I'd like to see a tournament like this be held in Georgia or North Carolina just after the end of the Florida-SC-GA seasons and right when most other states begin.
No teams south of Delaware? Sounds like a NE championship with a few outliers.

penn charter could not even win their conference tourney in 2021. Nice team and top 10 in pa, but not sure they can be counted as part of the group that decides the national championship.
PC lost their conference championship by 1 to Agnes Irwin. During the regular season PC & AIS split their 2 games, each winning by 1 goal. So they are pretty even in terms of rankings. PC is definitely ranked in the top 5 in PA (AIS, PC, Radnor, Archbishop Carrol, Conestoga).

Having said that, it's a down year in PA for girls lacrosse, I personally don't feel they have a top 20 national team. There's typically some playdays with the MD and NY teams but not this year because of COVID limited schedules. PC should be competitive in the national tournament but won't make any noise (but fairly certain they would beat Moorestown!)
Note I did not call out other pa teams as potential participants, so we agree in that. As you say hard to gage without out of state games. And Stoga struggled mightily down the stretch … so to be fair in the state this season you have to throw in strath haven and possibly Unionville. I stand by my PC in the top 10, not 5. Addis from radnor absolutely coach of the year, followed by Duckenfield out of O’Hara.
I don't know, the only AA team that can compete somewhat with the good AAA & privates is Archbishop Carroll - who Penn Charter beat by 1 goal during the regular season. IMO, Strath Haven & O'Hara lose by at least 8 goals to Radnor, Stoga, GV, Unionville, AIS, PC & even EA. Carroll beat O'Hara twice by 7 & 8 goals and Carroll beat Strath Haven by 8 in the AA finals and Strath Haven beat O'Hara by 1 in the semi-finals...so you really do have a good indication that PC is in top 5 and O'Hara & Strath Haven are not. You could make an argument that Garnet Valley & Unionville may be in that 5 - 7 range.

I do agree that the Duck had a nice year with O'Hara and probably deserves coach of the year for AA. Addis is a lock for AAA coach.
njbill
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Re: HS National Championship, Farmington, Conn.

Post by njbill »

8meterPA wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:55 pm PC lost their conference championship by 1 to Agnes Irwin. During the regular season PC & AIS split their 2 games, each winning by 1 goal. So they are pretty even in terms of rankings. PC is definitely ranked in the top 5 in PA (AIS, PC, Radnor, Archbishop Carrol, Conestoga).

Having said that, it's a down year in PA for girls lacrosse, I personally don't feel they have a top 20 national team. There's typically some playdays with the MD and NY teams but not this year because of COVID limited schedules. PC should be competitive in the national tournament but won't make any noise (but fairly certain they would beat Moorestown!)
I know you are trying to get me to take the bait. :lol:

You might have to reevaluate after Moorestown’s win today over Chatham.

Big day for South Jersey in the NJ state playoffs. South Jersey teams won all four public group titles today. Take that, North Jersey!
8meterPA
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Re: HS National Championship, Farmington, Conn.

Post by 8meterPA »

njbill wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:43 pm
8meterPA wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:55 pm PC lost their conference championship by 1 to Agnes Irwin. During the regular season PC & AIS split their 2 games, each winning by 1 goal. So they are pretty even in terms of rankings. PC is definitely ranked in the top 5 in PA (AIS, PC, Radnor, Archbishop Carrol, Conestoga).

Having said that, it's a down year in PA for girls lacrosse, I personally don't feel they have a top 20 national team. There's typically some playdays with the MD and NY teams but not this year because of COVID limited schedules. PC should be competitive in the national tournament but won't make any noise (but fairly certain they would beat Moorestown!)
I know you are trying to get me to take the bait. :lol:

You might have to reevaluate after Moorestown’s win today over Chatham.

Big day for South Jersey in the NJ state playoffs. South Jersey teams won all four public group titles today. Take that, North Jersey!
NJ - has there been any NJ/PA games that you know of? I've only see that a couple of PA private school games vs. Lawrenceville and 1 vs. the Hun school, but I don't know how competitive they are. What's NJ lax like this year? PA is definitely down compared to previous years. I never really thought of Chatham as a "powerhouse"?
njbill
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Re: HS National Championship, Farmington, Conn.

Post by njbill »

Other than the couple of Lawrenceville games you mentioned, I am only aware of one PA NJ game, which was between long time rivals up in the Easton area, across the bridge from each other, involving teams that aren’t typically very good.

Earlier in the year when schedules were being put together, there were travel restrictions applicable to New Jersey public schools which I think prohibited or at least discouraged out of state games. I think those rules were relaxed somewhat recently, but well after schools had made up their schedules. I am aware of one North Jersey team that played a game in Connecticut.

The rules for New Jersey private schools seem to be less restrictive.

It’s my sense that similar types of restrictions applied in pretty much all states this year. I’m not aware that any New York teams are playing out of state. New York is not having its normal state championships in Cortland. I believe the Island teams are playing out to an Island champion in each of the four classes, but that will be it for them.

The IAAM teams only played within their league this year.

Am I correct that Pennsylvania public teams did not play out of state this year? Are you having your usual playoffs?

I would say NJ glax is just decent this year. The season was pushed back three weeks, compressed slightly, and is being extended about two weeks. Season usually starts last week of March. This year the first game was April 19. (Compare with Pennsylvania which I think started pretty much on time, right?)

This certainly isn’t a strong year for Jersey though. Today’s results really upset the apple cart. Going into today, pretty much anybody would have said the top teams were Oak Knoll, Summit, and Chatham. But both Summit and Chatham lost today. Oak Knoll won. The six team TOC will be played next week.

One measure of comparison to my thinking is how good are this year’s teams in comparison to squads from the same school in earlier years. No question this is not the best Oak Knoll, Summit, or Moorestown team ever. Really not close for any of those teams.

Chatham is a team that is usually pretty good in North Jersey and one that rises to the top echelon from time to time. They played Moorestown in the TOC final in 2008 and 2012. This year they beat Oak Knoll (the only team to do so) and lost a one goal game to Summit. Today they lost to Moorestown 6-5, which is only their second loss of the season.
8meterPA
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Re: HS National Championship, Farmington, Conn.

Post by 8meterPA »

njbill wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:43 pm Other than the couple of Lawrenceville games you mentioned, I am only aware of one PA NJ game, which was between long time rivals up in the Easton area, across the bridge from each other, involving teams that aren’t typically very good.

Earlier in the year when schedules were being put together, there were travel restrictions applicable to New Jersey public schools which I think prohibited or at least discouraged out of state games. I think those rules were relaxed somewhat recently, but well after schools had made up their schedules. I am aware of one North Jersey team that played a game in Connecticut.

The rules for New Jersey private schools seem to be less restrictive.

It’s my sense that similar types of restrictions applied in pretty much all states this year. I’m not aware that any New York teams are playing out of state. New York is not having its normal state championships in Cortland. I believe the Island teams are playing out to an Island champion in each of the four classes, but that will be it for them.

The IAAM teams only played within their league this year.

Am I correct that Pennsylvania public teams did not play out of state this year? Are you having your usual playoffs?

I would say NJ glax is just decent this year. The season was pushed back three weeks, compressed slightly, and is being extended about two weeks. Season usually starts last week of March. This year the first game was April 19. (Compare with Pennsylvania which I think started pretty much on time, right?)

This certainly isn’t a strong year for Jersey though. Today’s results really upset the apple cart. Going into today, pretty much anybody would have said the top teams were Oak Knoll, Summit, and Chatham. But both Summit and Chatham lost today. Oak Knoll won. The six team TOC will be played next week.

One measure of comparison to my thinking is how good are this year’s teams in comparison to squads from the same school in earlier years. No question this is not the best Oak Knoll, Summit, or Moorestown team ever. Really not close for any of those teams.

Chatham is a team that is usually pretty good in North Jersey and one that rises to the top echelon from time to time. They played Moorestown in the TOC final in 2008 and 2012. This year they beat Oak Knoll (the only team to do so) and lost a one goal game to Summit. Today they lost to Moorestown 6-5, which is only their second loss of the season.
PA public school finished their season yesterday with Radnor winning the AAA state title and Archbishop Carroll winning AA title. Inter-AC aka private school title went to Agnes Irwin a few weeks back. Other traditional powers - Conestoga, garnet Valley faded by tournament time and EA was a non factor this year.

PA publics did not play out of state this year and limited out of state by the privates. They pretty much started season on time.
njbill
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Re: HS National Championship, Farmington, Conn.

Post by njbill »

I was talking to the husband of the Haddonfield coach and father of their star player yesterday. He said they tried to get a game with Penn Charter this year, but couldn’t schedule it. Penn Charter had come over to Haddonfield in 2019.

Haddonfield was prevented from going across the river. Sounds like PC was precluded from coming over to Haddonfield. Too bad. Would’ve been a good game.
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