NCAA Tournament Selection

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Jumbo
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Re: NCAA Tournament Selection

Post by Jumbo »

JBFortunato wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 1:21 pm Slim is pissy because his kid plays at St. Mary's, who won their conference tournament but the conference doesn't have an AQ for some reason.

I can't blame him, St. Mary's had the best season they could have had. Good wins against Randolph Macon and E-Town. And they played Salisbury tough.

You can check my posts, I've been hard on Roanoke this season. I thought the Catholic game might have been a jumping off point for the team, but they never were able to break through against the best teams on their schedule. That being said, Roanoke is a tough team, they have a solid goalie, a special offensive player and they fight hard. I think vis-a-vis St. Mary's, not much doubt in my mind that Roanoke would win that game. Roanoke beat Catholic, who smacked a very good E-Town team in the conference championship, who St. Mary's beat by a goal. And Roanoke came very close to beating Dickinson, closer even than the score indicates, whereas St. Mary's really didn't give Dickinson much of a scare.

In any case, calling Roanoke "roajoke" is pretty uncalled for. As are the other insults directed at the team. These are college kids. Calm the fck down.
I would have sided with St Marys over Roanoke (6 losses), Gettysburg (7 losses),
St Marys has been playing strong the last month. Losses to an undefeated Dickenson, 1 loss Salisbury, and a 2 loss morrisville. And unlike Roanoke and Gettysburg, they won their conference
InsiderRoll
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Re: NCAA Tournament Selection

Post by InsiderRoll »

Jumbo wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 1:45 pm
JBFortunato wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 1:21 pm Slim is pissy because his kid plays at St. Mary's, who won their conference tournament but the conference doesn't have an AQ for some reason.

I can't blame him, St. Mary's had the best season they could have had. Good wins against Randolph Macon and E-Town. And they played Salisbury tough.

You can check my posts, I've been hard on Roanoke this season. I thought the Catholic game might have been a jumping off point for the team, but they never were able to break through against the best teams on their schedule. That being said, Roanoke is a tough team, they have a solid goalie, a special offensive player and they fight hard. I think vis-a-vis St. Mary's, not much doubt in my mind that Roanoke would win that game. Roanoke beat Catholic, who smacked a very good E-Town team in the conference championship, who St. Mary's beat by a goal. And Roanoke came very close to beating Dickinson, closer even than the score indicates, whereas St. Mary's really didn't give Dickinson much of a scare.

In any case, calling Roanoke "roajoke" is pretty uncalled for. As are the other insults directed at the team. These are college kids. Calm the fck down.
I would have sided with St Marys over Roanoke (6 losses), Gettysburg (7 losses),
St Marys has been playing strong the last month. Losses to an undefeated Dickenson, 1 loss Salisbury, and a 2 loss morrisville. And unlike Roanoke and Gettysburg, they won their conference
St. Mary’s lost to Lynchburg worse than Roanoke. Losing to Morrisville is really bad. Good team, not even in the discussion for an at large.
Harco2019
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Re: NCAA Tournament Selection

Post by Harco2019 »

They both lost by 11 to Lynchburg, and then Roanoke lost by 8 in the semis and Lynchburg called off the dogs b/c they had a final to play. They are very similar teams, and you could argue common opponents all day, and win both ways. (Lynchburg, Shenandoah, Mary Wash, Guilford, RMC, Dickinson).

Roanoke plays in a better conference and has history. SMCM lost a game they should have won to Morrisville in the regular season and then pounded them in the conference final. They also did not get enough wins in their NY region to get them ranked in the region. Their schedule was made before they were placed in that region and most of their games were in the VA, MD, PA areas.. They also won their conference, but the conference did not do what they should have to secure the AQ. That will be fixed next year.
ah23
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Re: NCAA Tournament Selection

Post by ah23 »

There’s no good faith logic behind the “St. Mary’s deserved a Pool C bid” comments in here. Just pure fantasy. No point in engaging.
Harco2019
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Re: NCAA Tournament Selection

Post by Harco2019 »

I agree with you, but the same thing could be said for Roanoke
InsiderRoll
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Re: NCAA Tournament Selection

Post by InsiderRoll »

Harco2019 wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 3:21 pm I agree with you, but the same thing could be said for Roanoke
Using the criteria set forth by the committee it is justified. Stevenson and F&M knew the criteria when constructing their schedule. F&M got screwed because the Centennial canibilized itself to the point that some of their wins were diminished. The ODAC definitely has a competitive advantage because of their region. But that is the way it goes.

My hunch is more teams are going to try and schedule teams like Grove City, Ill. Wesleyan, Hope, Baldwin-Wallace, So. VA, John Carroll, Albion, etc. - Those are much easier regionally ranked wins to obtain.

That will put more of those teams up against marquee programs in the regular season. Which can ultimately help them grow. Which ultimately can help the sport grow. That was the goal of the regional system.
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DeepPocket
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Re: NCAA Tournament Selection

Post by DeepPocket »

InsiderRoll wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 3:32 pm …My hunch is more teams are going to try and schedule teams like Grove City, Ill. Wesleyan, Hope, Baldwin-Wallace, So. VA, John Carroll, Albion, etc. - Those are much easier regionally ranked wins to obtain.

That will put more of those teams up against marquee programs in the regular season. Which can ultimately help them grow. Which ultimately can help the sport grow. That was the goal of the regional system.
So the “regionally ranked wins” is not exclusive to ranked teams in one’s own region? I misinterpreted that. Thank you.
MAC - The SEC of DIII lacrosse.
Jumbo
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Re: NCAA Tournament Selection

Post by Jumbo »

Bottom line, Roanoke doesn’t have a chance getting past round 1. Why put three teams from ODAC when two of them didn’t even make the championship game.
JustOneTime
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Re: NCAA Tournament Selection

Post by JustOneTime »

Who would you have selected in their place?
ah23
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Re: NCAA Tournament Selection

Post by ah23 »

Harco2019 wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 3:21 pm I agree with you, but the same thing could be said for Roanoke
No way. Roanoke beat four ranked teams and has no losses to bad teams. St. Mary's beat one ranked team (an R-M team that is the weakest of Roanoke's four ranked wins, by a smaller margin) and has an inexcusable loss to Morrisville. Nothing on St. Mary's resume puts them anywhere close to any of the other bubble teams. Not even talking Roanoke - they're not close to IWU, Hope, etc. either. Just a genuinely nothing resume.
InsiderRoll wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 3:32 pm My hunch is more teams are going to try and schedule teams like Grove City, Ill. Wesleyan, Hope, Baldwin-Wallace, So. VA, John Carroll, Albion, etc. - Those are much easier regionally ranked wins to obtain.

That will put more of those teams up against marquee programs in the regular season. Which can ultimately help them grow. Which ultimately can help the sport grow. That was the goal of the regional system.
I hope you're right. I don't think it would go well in the short term - I'd bet on some ugly blowouts against middling Region III/IV teams and some crafty resume-padding by mid-tier teams in the Centennial or similar conferences - but it could help with long-term growth and at the very least serve as an interesting measuring stick of the progress being made.
InsiderRoll
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Re: NCAA Tournament Selection

Post by InsiderRoll »

ah23 wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 4:09 pm
Harco2019 wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 3:21 pm I agree with you, but the same thing could be said for Roanoke
No way. Roanoke beat four ranked teams and has no losses to bad teams. St. Mary's beat one ranked team (an R-M team that is the weakest of Roanoke's four ranked wins, by a smaller margin) and has an inexcusable loss to Morrisville. Nothing on St. Mary's resume puts them anywhere close to any of the other bubble teams. Not even talking Roanoke - they're not close to IWU, Hope, etc. either. Just a genuinely nothing resume.
InsiderRoll wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 3:32 pm My hunch is more teams are going to try and schedule teams like Grove City, Ill. Wesleyan, Hope, Baldwin-Wallace, So. VA, John Carroll, Albion, etc. - Those are much easier regionally ranked wins to obtain.

That will put more of those teams up against marquee programs in the regular season. Which can ultimately help them grow. Which ultimately can help the sport grow. That was the goal of the regional system.
I hope you're right. I don't think it would go well in the short term - I'd bet on some ugly blowouts against middling Region III/IV teams and some crafty resume-padding by mid-tier teams in the Centennial or similar conferences - but it could help with long-term growth and at the very least serve as an interesting measuring stick of the progress being made.
I posted this before the announcement. But it really isnt that surprising BASED ON THE NCAA SELECTION CRITERIA that Roanoke received a bid.

Last Out

Illinois Wesleyan (11-5) - Region 5 (2nd)
- Going to be very close. But only 3 regionally ranked wins. They may look at their east coast trip and see lots of losses to teams that their counterparts performed better against. SOS and RPI are inflated.
Record vs Regionally Ranked: 3-4
SOS: 11th
RPI: 17th

Franklin and Marshall (12-4) - Region 3 (8th)
- Just didn’t play enough good teams. 2 wins vs regionally ranked opponents + not making your conference tournament isn’t going to get it done.
Record vs Regionally Ranked: 2-3
SOS: 44th
RPI: 24th

Roanoke (12-6) - Region 4 (5th)
- Sneaky good resume. But aren’t going to overtake W&L in the regional rankings.
Record vs Regionally Ranked: 4-6
SOS: 37th
RPI: 32nd

Hampden-Sydney (13-7) - Region 4 (6th)
- Great tournament run. Puts them into contention. But they had a very poor resume before this weekend.
Record vs Regionally Ranked: 3-7
SOS: 38th
RPI: 39th

Hamilton (7-7) - Region 1 (7th)
- At 7-7 and only 3 regionally ranked wins. This team will be on the outside looking in.
Record vs Regionally Ranked: 3-5
SOS: 57th
RPI: 74th

Middlebury (8-8) - Region 1 (8th)
- About the same as Hamilton, even with the Tufts win. Laid too many eggs.
Record vs Regionally Ranked: 3-8
SOS: 34th
RPI: 63rd

Ithaca (10-6) - Region 2 (8th)
- Just not enough regionally ranked wins. No conference tourney appearance.
Record vs Regionally Ranked: 2-6
SOS: 20th
RPI: 27th

Stevenson (13-6) - Region 3 (9th)
- Only 1 win vs regionally ranked teams. No way this team moves into the discussion.
Record vs Regionally Ranked: 1-6
SOS: 29th
RPI: 25th
InsiderRoll
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Re: NCAA Tournament Selection

Post by InsiderRoll »

A new big development for NCAA regional rankings is being moved forward. Each region will only have 7 regionally ranked teams regardless of number of teams in region.

This is being made in an effort to limit rankings to teams that have some reasonable chance at an at large. It should help some of the best teams get at larges because the regional rankings will be much closer to the poll rankings.

Here are last years regional rankings, you can see that a large number of regionally ranked games would now be cut off.

https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/lacrosse ... l-rankings

It could definitely have an impact on the scheduling ability of good programs from bad conferences, like Grove City.

This change will not take place until 2024.
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DeepPocket
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Re: NCAA Tournament Selection

Post by DeepPocket »

InsiderRoll wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 11:45 am A new big development for NCAA regional rankings is being moved forward. Each region will only have 7 regionally ranked teams regardless of number of teams in region.

This is being made in an effort to limit rankings to teams that have some reasonable chance at an at large. It should help some of the best teams get at larges because the regional rankings will be much closer to the poll rankings.

Here are last years regional rankings, you can see that a large number of regionally ranked games would now be cut off.

https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/lacrosse ... l-rankings

It could definitely have an impact on the scheduling ability of good programs from bad conferences, like Grove City.

This change will not take place until 2024.
Is there any hope that this will lead us away from 3 out of 4 bracket quadrants beginning with a hypothetical “Bishop Sycamore-Minneapolis vs. Kansas City Tech” first round matchup?
(While teams that are better at playing the sport of lacrosse sit at home watching)
MAC - The SEC of DIII lacrosse.
SixBySix
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Re: NCAA Tournament Selection

Post by SixBySix »

InsiderRoll wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 11:45 am A new big development for NCAA regional rankings is being moved forward. Each region will only have 7 regionally ranked teams regardless of number of teams in region.

This is being made in an effort to limit rankings to teams that have some reasonable chance at an at large. It should help some of the best teams get at larges because the regional rankings will be much closer to the poll rankings.

Here are last years regional rankings, you can see that a large number of regionally ranked games would now be cut off.

https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/lacrosse ... l-rankings

It could definitely have an impact on the scheduling ability of good programs from bad conferences, like Grove City.

This change will not take place until 2024.
Interesting. I am a Centennial guy, so know Region III the best, but if you ask me should beating these teams "count" as meaningful wins for tournament selection:

Middlebury
UMass Boston
Coast Guard
Keene State
Endicott
Clarkson
F&M
Stevenson
Muhlenberg
Grove City
Kenyon
So Va
OWU
RMC
Birmingham So.

for the most part, I think I would say "yes". Regions IV and V might be somewhat bloated, but it's hard for me to say that those #8 and #9 spots in I, II, and III aren't solid wins.
InsiderRoll
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Re: NCAA Tournament Selection

Post by InsiderRoll »

SixBySix wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 2:06 pm
InsiderRoll wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 11:45 am A new big development for NCAA regional rankings is being moved forward. Each region will only have 7 regionally ranked teams regardless of number of teams in region.

This is being made in an effort to limit rankings to teams that have some reasonable chance at an at large. It should help some of the best teams get at larges because the regional rankings will be much closer to the poll rankings.

Here are last years regional rankings, you can see that a large number of regionally ranked games would now be cut off.

https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/lacrosse ... l-rankings

It could definitely have an impact on the scheduling ability of good programs from bad conferences, like Grove City.

This change will not take place until 2024.
Interesting. I am a Centennial guy, so know Region III the best, but if you ask me should beating these teams "count" as meaningful wins for tournament selection:

Middlebury
UMass Boston
Coast Guard
Keene State
Endicott
Clarkson
F&M
Stevenson
Muhlenberg
Grove City
Kenyon
So Va
OWU
RMC
Birmingham So.

for the most part, I think I would say "yes". Regions IV and V might be somewhat bloated, but it's hard for me to say that those #8 and #9 spots in I, II, and III aren't solid wins.
Should be noted this was requested and approved across all sports. It was not a lacrosse decision.
Leonard Washington
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Re: NCAA Tournament Selection

Post by Leonard Washington »

InsiderRoll wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 11:45 am This is being made in an effort to limit rankings to teams that have some reasonable chance at an at large. It should help some of the best teams get at larges because the regional rankings will be much closer to the poll rankings.
Less stuff for some posters to nit pick or complain about is terrible :lol:
First of all, ya better check your tone. I dont think you know who you're talking to. I'm Leonard Washington...I don't get butt naked for nobody!!
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DeepPocket
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Re: NCAA Tournament Selection

Post by DeepPocket »

Disagreement is the lifeblood of forums.
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LaxTime87
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Re: NCAA Tournament Selection

Post by LaxTime87 »

Laxaholic123
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Re: NCAA Tournament Selection

Post by Laxaholic123 »

LaxTime87 wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 8:18 am More 2023 tournament news:

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/champi ... andout.pdf
Thanks for sharing! Really took a toll on my eyes looking at those last few pages though :lol:
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