SUNYAC 2022

D3 Mens Lacrosse
Muleski
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:16 pm

Re: SUNYAC 2022

Post by Muleski »

I'm curious, but I have not followed the SUNYAC at all this year. Our kids are all mid thirties now. All three played in college: two in the NESCAC and one at SLU. Back when SLU had the insane win streak.

At that time, Cortland was one of the consistently best teams in D3. A near sure bet to be playing in the final four. My sons had the "pleasure" of having their pretty damn good teams dismantled by Cortland.

So what I'm curious about is why the big slide and demise? Is it Beville? I have a hard time with that, as I assume that he has a lot left in the tank. And he has so much experience in the game. Tremendous. if he's lost it, that will be upsetting to me.

Is the school simply NOT as attractive as other SUNYACS? Or suffering from the competition with the private schools that offer incredible need based financial aid. The rich get richer thee every year. I'd have a hard time picking Cortland, or supporting my child, if they could get recruited into one of the better NESCAC schools, or a prime LL school, and pay virtually nothing.

So what say you fans? Coaching, recruiting and talent, or something else? And what's the fix.

I will say in decades of this stuff, talent makes a huge difference at this level. I have always found a strong link between having the best coach, the best talent, and the best results.

Hope they turn it around, finish strong and look up to next year.

BTW, dealing with this, personally with two NESCAC schools that my wife and I are involved in. In that case very experienced long time coaches who are not getting it done. We think.
Vermont25
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:47 am

Re: SUNYAC 2022

Post by Vermont25 »

my suspicion is that the country is catching up to the New York talent. For years the HOT BEDS of Long Island and Central New York leftovers went to Cortland. With the continued growth of the sport outside of New York, the talent has caught up.
InsiderRoll
Posts: 1220
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2021 3:46 pm

Re: SUNYAC 2022

Post by InsiderRoll »

Muleski wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 5:49 pm I'm curious, but I have not followed the SUNYAC at all this year. Our kids are all mid thirties now. All three played in college: two in the NESCAC and one at SLU. Back when SLU had the insane win streak.

At that time, Cortland was one of the consistently best teams in D3. A near sure bet to be playing in the final four. My sons had the "pleasure" of having their pretty damn good teams dismantled by Cortland.

So what I'm curious about is why the big slide and demise? Is it Beville? I have a hard time with that, as I assume that he has a lot left in the tank. And he has so much experience in the game. Tremendous. if he's lost it, that will be upsetting to me.

Is the school simply NOT as attractive as other SUNYACS? Or suffering from the competition with the private schools that offer incredible need based financial aid. The rich get richer thee every year. I'd have a hard time picking Cortland, or supporting my child, if they could get recruited into one of the better NESCAC schools, or a prime LL school, and pay virtually nothing.

So what say you fans? Coaching, recruiting and talent, or something else? And what's the fix.

I will say in decades of this stuff, talent makes a huge difference at this level. I have always found a strong link between having the best coach, the best talent, and the best results.

Hope they turn it around, finish strong and look up to next year.

BTW, dealing with this, personally with two NESCAC schools that my wife and I are involved in. In that case very experienced long time coaches who are not getting it done. We think.
I think that the talent in NY is not as good as it was relative to the rest of the country. Particularly in upstate where population is falling and enrollment at many school districts are plummeting. Programs like West Genesee, Carthage, FM, JD, Ithaca, Nisky, Shenendehowa, Irondeqouit, Webster, Corning etc are shells of what they once were. They have always struggled with most of westchester except Yorktown, and that program is also in decline.

I would also argue that there are significant new competitors for recruits that didn’t exist 10/15 years ago. Particularly at the D1/D2 level with Jacksonville, Tampa, St. Leo, and FL Southern that dive into LI recruiting. Add in growth for D1 schools like High Point, Utah, St. Bonnie’s and a shrinking pool for Cortland to recruit and they are left with scraps.

All that said, Salisbury, LeMoyne (scholarship), RIT (less reliant on NY state), and St. John Fisher (biggest competition for kids right now) are finding some success with somewhat similar models. I do not think that Beville is a particularly active or great recruiter, he is a knowledgeable and experienced coach, but he has to get the guys there. Most of his winning at Cortland was done with players from the previous regimes.
CrazyPeople
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue May 18, 2021 2:42 pm

Re: SUNYAC 2022

Post by CrazyPeople »

InsiderRoll wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 10:16 am
Muleski wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 5:49 pm I'm curious, but I have not followed the SUNYAC at all this year. Our kids are all mid thirties now. All three played in college: two in the NESCAC and one at SLU. Back when SLU had the insane win streak.

At that time, Cortland was one of the consistently best teams in D3. A near sure bet to be playing in the final four. My sons had the "pleasure" of having their pretty damn good teams dismantled by Cortland.

So what I'm curious about is why the big slide and demise? Is it Beville? I have a hard time with that, as I assume that he has a lot left in the tank. And he has so much experience in the game. Tremendous. if he's lost it, that will be upsetting to me.

Is the school simply NOT as attractive as other SUNYACS? Or suffering from the competition with the private schools that offer incredible need based financial aid. The rich get richer thee every year. I'd have a hard time picking Cortland, or supporting my child, if they could get recruited into one of the better NESCAC schools, or a prime LL school, and pay virtually nothing.

So what say you fans? Coaching, recruiting and talent, or something else? And what's the fix.

I will say in decades of this stuff, talent makes a huge difference at this level. I have always found a strong link between having the best coach, the best talent, and the best results.

Hope they turn it around, finish strong and look up to next year.

BTW, dealing with this, personally with two NESCAC schools that my wife and I are involved in. In that case very experienced long time coaches who are not getting it done. We think.
Most of his winning at Cortland was done with players from the previous regimes.
^^^This
dp68
Posts: 130
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:11 am

Re: SUNYAC 2022

Post by dp68 »

InsiderRoll wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 10:16 am Most of his winning at Cortland was done with players from the previous regimes.
Fair assessment. The 2013 team was tremendous and could have won the NCAA championship had they not fallen to a RIT hidden ball trick in OT. But a lot of us failed to notice that the cupboard was bare. Once the seniors graduated, there wasn't much talent left for the 2014 squad. Recruiting hit a brick wall sometime around 2010 or 2011, but it took a few years before anyone noticed. Since then, a slow and painful decline.
dp68
Posts: 130
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:11 am

Re: SUNYAC 2022

Post by dp68 »

CrazyPeople wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 2:24 pm
Olaxfan wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 12:56 pm So it looks pretty clear that the top 3 spots will be Cortland Geneseo and Brockport. The big question becomes who lands in the final playoff spot. Oswego currently looking like the favorite and Plattsburgh's loss to oneonta pretty much eliminates them as does Potsdam's loss to Oswego.
I'm beginning to second guess Brockport as clear #3. Oswego is doing some nice things. Will have more of an opinion after this weekend.
Brockport has only played three solid teams all season (Naz, John Carrol, Cortland), and they lost all three games. If they want to move up to the next level, they need to stop scheduling Keuka, Alfred, Delhi, Hilbert, etc. Honestly, that schedule is pretty embarrassing.
InsiderRoll
Posts: 1220
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2021 3:46 pm

Re: SUNYAC 2022

Post by InsiderRoll »

dp68 wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 10:26 pm
InsiderRoll wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 10:16 am Most of his winning at Cortland was done with players from the previous regimes.
Fair assessment. The 2013 team was tremendous and could have won the NCAA championship had they not fallen to a RIT hidden ball trick in OT. But a lot of us failed to notice that the cupboard was bare. Once the seniors graduated, there wasn't much talent left for the 2014 squad. Recruiting hit a brick wall sometime around 2010 or 2011, but it took a few years before anyone noticed. Since then, a slow and painful decline.
There were a few guys that he did bring in those early years like Slavik, Hopps, and Racoszy (sp). I know I probably missed a few, but you’re right, it’s been in decline since 2013 - which was a very good team. The class of 2013 was 72-8 with 2012 and 2013 being perfect regular seasons. 2012 team was also very good losing in the National Championship to an undefeated Salisbury team. (One of the best Salisbury teams ever IMO)
dp68
Posts: 130
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:11 am

Re: SUNYAC 2022

Post by dp68 »

InsiderRoll wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 11:19 am
dp68 wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 10:26 pm
InsiderRoll wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 10:16 am Most of his winning at Cortland was done with players from the previous regimes.
Fair assessment. The 2013 team was tremendous and could have won the NCAA championship had they not fallen to a RIT hidden ball trick in OT. But a lot of us failed to notice that the cupboard was bare. Once the seniors graduated, there wasn't much talent left for the 2014 squad. Recruiting hit a brick wall sometime around 2010 or 2011, but it took a few years before anyone noticed. Since then, a slow and painful decline.
There were a few guys that he did bring in those early years like Slavik, Hopps, and Racoszy (sp). I know I probably missed a few, but you’re right, it’s been in decline since 2013 - which was a very good team. The class of 2013 was 72-8 with 2012 and 2013 being perfect regular seasons. 2012 team was also very good losing in the National Championship to an undefeated Salisbury team. (One of the best Salisbury teams ever IMO)
Hopps was a terrific attackman. The team's reputation and two championships brought in the recruits for a while, though fewer top-level guys chose Cortland every year. I don't know if the coaching staff recruited harder in those days, or if they were never great recruiters to begin with, and the program's record supported recruiting. It's still a good program, but nowhere near the level of a decade ago.
Olaxfan
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:44 pm

Re: SUNYAC 2022

Post by Olaxfan »

Brockport and Oswego with chances to lock up playoff births this weekend and eliminate Oneonta and Potsdam.
Collegelaxguy16
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:44 pm

Re: SUNYAC 2022

Post by Collegelaxguy16 »

Got to watch the Geneseo vs. RIT game in person. Geneseo has taken a major step forward it looks like. Although they lost by 10, they were losing 6-2 at half which is a great score against one of the best teams in the country. It is a loss and wasn't as close after halftime, but if Geneseo had limited some unforced turnovers in the 3rd, they might have been able to keep the game closer. Goalie Mark Pav played incredible. I am really looking forward to the Geneseo v Cortland game!

Also very confused about Cortland like usual. They beat Ithaca tonight which is a huge win for them. I'm not sure how this played out but makes the Geneseo v Cortland even more exciting.
dp68
Posts: 130
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:11 am

Re: SUNYAC 2022

Post by dp68 »

Great night for lacrosse on South Hill between two well-matched teams. Cortland scored six straight goals to overcome a 9-7 deficit and win 13-11 over a strong Ithaca College Bombers team. The aggressive Cortland checking turned the game around in the second half. It's always entertaining when these rivals take the field.
Last edited by dp68 on Wed Apr 20, 2022 10:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
dp68
Posts: 130
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:11 am

Re: SUNYAC 2022

Post by dp68 »

Collegelaxguy16 wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 9:05 pm Got to watch the Geneseo vs. RIT game in person. Geneseo has taken a major step forward it looks like. Although they lost by 10, they were losing 6-2 at half which is a great score against one of the best teams in the country. It is a loss and wasn't as close after halftime, but if Geneseo had limited some unforced turnovers in the 3rd, they might have been able to keep the game closer. Goalie Mark Pav played incredible. I am really looking forward to the Geneseo v Cortland game!

Also very confused about Cortland like usual. They beat Ithaca tonight which is a huge win for them. I'm not sure how this played out but makes the Geneseo v Cortland even more exciting.
It seems Pav is the key to Geneseo's success. 21 saves vs 14 goals is impressive against anybody, but RIT lights the cage up. Statistically, it didn't look very close. RIT outshot Geneseo 64-21 and had 35 shots on goal vs only 14 by Geneseo. Ground balls and clears also very lopsided as expected. For Geneseo to beat Cortland and win the SUNYAC, they'll need to dominate the faceoff game and let Pav stand on his head.
Collegelaxguy16
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:44 pm

Re: SUNYAC 2022

Post by Collegelaxguy16 »

dp68 wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 10:22 pm
Collegelaxguy16 wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 9:05 pm Got to watch the Geneseo vs. RIT game in person. Geneseo has taken a major step forward it looks like. Although they lost by 10, they were losing 6-2 at half which is a great score against one of the best teams in the country. It is a loss and wasn't as close after halftime, but if Geneseo had limited some unforced turnovers in the 3rd, they might have been able to keep the game closer. Goalie Mark Pav played incredible. I am really looking forward to the Geneseo v Cortland game!

Also very confused about Cortland like usual. They beat Ithaca tonight which is a huge win for them. I'm not sure how this played out but makes the Geneseo v Cortland even more exciting.
It seems Pav is the key to Geneseo's success. 21 saves vs 14 goals is impressive against anybody, but RIT lights the cage up. Statistically, it didn't look very close. RIT outshot Geneseo 64-21 and had 35 shots on goal vs only 14 by Geneseo. Ground balls and clears also very lopsided as expected. For Geneseo to beat Cortland and win the SUNYAC, they'll need to dominate the faceoff game and let Pav stand on his head.
Absolutely. Cortland was able to do that last year in the SUNYAC championship with their goalie so I am never ruling that out for any SUNYAC goalie. I think the SUNYAC is a top 4 team dominant conference who can be competitve with each other with 2 most likely favorites to make the championship.
Whatyagonnado
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:24 pm

Re: SUNYAC 2022

Post by Whatyagonnado »

Does anyone know the tie breaker scenarios. I can envision Brockport beating Geneseo Tuesday. Then If Geneseo beats Cortland Saturday. We’d have a three way tie for first. As long as each wins their other game this week. Which isn’t a given.
CrazyPeople
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue May 18, 2021 2:42 pm

Re: SUNYAC 2022

Post by CrazyPeople »

Whatyagonnado wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 8:53 am Does anyone know the tie breaker scenarios. I can envision Brockport beating Geneseo Tuesday. Then If Geneseo beats Cortland Saturday. We’d have a three way tie for first. As long as each wins their other game this week. Which isn’t a given.
Curious what made you think that scenario could likely happen? Geneseo is going to lose to Brockport, but then beat a team Brockport lost to by 7?
Whatyagonnado
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:24 pm

Re: SUNYAC 2022

Post by Whatyagonnado »

Just a hypothetical question. Sorry that bothered you.
CrazyPeople
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue May 18, 2021 2:42 pm

Re: SUNYAC 2022

Post by CrazyPeople »

Whatyagonnado wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 10:09 am Just a hypothetical question. Sorry that bothered you.
Just curious more than anything, not bothered.
SunyLaxFan
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:48 am

Re: SUNYAC 2022

Post by SunyLaxFan »

Oneonta beats Oswego 12-6... after Oswego loses to Geneseo by 1... what is happening in the SUNYAC this year, I don't know what to think anymore...

Excited for the Brockport/Geneseo matchup tomorrow, and EXTREMELY excited for the final game of Genny/Cortland... I think it will decide the 1 seed for this years playoffs. I think its official that Cortland/Genny/Brockport will be the only teams with some action in the playoffs.
Olaxfan
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:44 pm

Re: SUNYAC 2022

Post by Olaxfan »

Congratulations to New Paltz on their first Sunyac win over Oneonta. Credit to coach Owens for being the worst lax coach in Sunyac history. What a clown.
boredatwork
Posts: 263
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:44 pm

Re: SUNYAC 2022

Post by boredatwork »

Olaxfan wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:03 pm Congratulations to New Paltz on their first Sunyac win over Oneonta. Credit to coach Owens for being the worst lax coach in Sunyac history. What a clown.
Wow, tell us how you really feel…

Congrats new paltz, always cool to see guys get their first win and in that conference it doesn’t come easy.
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