SUNYAC 2022

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Olaxfan
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Re: SUNYAC 2022

Post by Olaxfan »

fanOlax wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 9:59 am
River Donkey wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 10:39 am FYI the Brockport job is FT, not sure of the salary. The PT listing was a mistake. So Brockport still has FT coach position and nothing has changed except who will be coaching.
This was not a mistake, I have talked to an alumni of brockport and the AD has confirmed in multiple emails that it is part time due to the school trying to remain financially stable.
If that's true Brockport should just shut down their lax program. The salary is an insult and I cant imagine who they end up with at that pay. The responsibility of coaching 50 student athletes shouldn't be a part-time 22k salary.
Pegasus5
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Re: SUNYAC 2022

Post by Pegasus5 »

SUNY employment rewards longevity over merit. If you want the big bucks, you need to get in early and stick around. Whether you are a Coach or a Professor. It is the nature of the employer, not the environment of the competition you are hired to coach or teach.
InsiderRoll
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Re: SUNYAC 2022

Post by InsiderRoll »

Pegasus5 wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 11:43 pm SUNY employment rewards longevity over merit. If you want the big bucks, you need to get in early and stick around. Whether you are a Coach or a Professor. It is the nature of the employer, not the environment of the competition you are hired to coach or teach.
Cortland is probably the lone exception to that one, the alums have likely supported the salary of that position beyond what the SUNY system supports
Bart
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Re: SUNYAC 2022

Post by Bart »

InsiderRoll wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 12:34 am
Pegasus5 wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 11:43 pm SUNY employment rewards longevity over merit. If you want the big bucks, you need to get in early and stick around. Whether you are a Coach or a Professor. It is the nature of the employer, not the environment of the competition you are hired to coach or teach.
Cortland is probably the lone exception to that one, the alums have likely supported the salary of that position beyond what the SUNY system supports
Curious how that would work if the position is not endowed?
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DeepPocket
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Re: SUNYAC 2022

Post by DeepPocket »

Bart wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 7:50 am
InsiderRoll wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 12:34 am
Pegasus5 wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 11:43 pm SUNY employment rewards longevity over merit. If you want the big bucks, you need to get in early and stick around. Whether you are a Coach or a Professor. It is the nature of the employer, not the environment of the competition you are hired to coach or teach.
Cortland is probably the lone exception to that one, the alums have likely supported the salary of that position beyond what the SUNY system supports
Curious how that would work if the position is not endowed?
A separate fund is set up for this and money is raised from alumni and other interested persons for that specific purpose. Many teams do it for non-endowed assistant coaching positions to enable more competitive wages / more assistant positions.
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Bart
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Re: SUNYAC 2022

Post by Bart »

DeepPocket wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 8:43 am
Bart wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 7:50 am
InsiderRoll wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 12:34 am
Pegasus5 wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 11:43 pm SUNY employment rewards longevity over merit. If you want the big bucks, you need to get in early and stick around. Whether you are a Coach or a Professor. It is the nature of the employer, not the environment of the competition you are hired to coach or teach.
Cortland is probably the lone exception to that one, the alums have likely supported the salary of that position beyond what the SUNY system supports
Curious how that would work if the position is not endowed?
A separate fund is set up for this and money is raised from alumni and other interested persons for that specific purpose. Many teams do it for non-endowed assistant coaching positions to enable more competitive wages / more assistant positions.
Interesting. Public or private? Public has to deal with the unions (UUP on SUNY campuses).
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DeepPocket
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Re: SUNYAC 2022

Post by DeepPocket »

Bart wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 8:57 am Interesting. Public or private? Public has to deal with the unions (UUP on SUNY campuses).
I can’t imagine unions factor in regardless. Coaching positions can be full time, part time, or volunteer. Are part time or volunteer coaches required to join unions and pay dues at public schools?

Does a union member department chair professor not get additional money over a standard union member professor at a public school? Why wouldn’t the lead assistant coach be eligible to receive additional compensation over a designated offensive or defensive assistant?
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Bart
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Re: SUNYAC 2022

Post by Bart »

DeepPocket wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 10:10 am
Bart wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 8:57 am Interesting. Public or private? Public has to deal with the unions (UUP on SUNY campuses).
I can’t imagine unions factor in regardless. Coaching positions can be full time, part time, or volunteer. Are part time or volunteer coaches required to join unions and pay dues at public schools?

Does a union member department chair professor not get additional money over a standard union member professor at a public school? Why wouldn’t the lead assistant coach be eligible to receive additional compensation over a designated offensive or defensive assistant?
It has nothing to do with joining the union. It all has to do with the binding contact between the union and the school. All individuals within the school are subject to the stipulations with in that contract. Coaches would be UUP, staff CSEA.

Yes. That additional money to a chair is dictated in the contract the union signs. The biology alumni can not get together and decide they want the biology chair to make more money so they set up a fund to do so, without it being and endowed position.

I do not know for certain what you are saying is impossible or probable or someplace in between. I am genuinely interested for several reasons and have started down the road to get an answer.
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DeepPocket
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Re: SUNYAC 2022

Post by DeepPocket »

Bart wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 12:16 pm It has nothing to do with joining the union. It all has to do with the binding contact between the union and the school. All individuals within the school are subject to the stipulations with in that contract. Coaches would be UUP, staff CSEA.

Yes. That additional money to a chair is dictated in the contract the union signs. The biology alumni can not get together and decide they want the biology chair to make more money so they set up a fund to do so, without it being and endowed position.

I do not know for certain what you are saying is impossible or probable or someplace in between. I am genuinely interested for several reasons and have started down the road to get an answer.
Yes, clearly you have an added interest or involvement in union matters. It is a shame, if it’s the case, that a contract a school has with a union would exercise ANY control over non-union members. No wonder they’re struggling if that’s the case, can’t spend more to grow in areas the school wants to or reward any success, without some form of union approval. Wish the union or school or ANYBODY would put the students (customers) experience at least close to first in their negotiations.
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Bart
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Re: SUNYAC 2022

Post by Bart »

DeepPocket wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 12:36 pm
Bart wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 12:16 pm It has nothing to do with joining the union. It all has to do with the binding contact between the union and the school. All individuals within the school are subject to the stipulations with in that contract. Coaches would be UUP, staff CSEA.

Yes. That additional money to a chair is dictated in the contract the union signs. The biology alumni can not get together and decide they want the biology chair to make more money so they set up a fund to do so, without it being and endowed position.

I do not know for certain what you are saying is impossible or probable or someplace in between. I am genuinely interested for several reasons and have started down the road to get an answer.
Yes, clearly you have an added interest or involvement in union matters. It is a shame, if it’s the case, that a contract a school has with a union would exercise ANY control over non-union members. No wonder they’re struggling if that’s the case, can’t spend more to grow in areas the school wants to or reward any success, without some form of union approval. Wish the union or school or ANYBODY would put the students (customers) experience at least close to first in their negotiations.
Won't disagree with your last sentence to a point. Sometime the customers value the experience of the school more than the education.

I am not a union steward or union board member. I do not know union law or history but from my understanding every job except the highest points (president, provost ect) is governed by the union shop. It was voted on that way well before I was associated with a SUNY. So while you do not have to be a member of the union your benefits and salary are negotiated by the union and they are the same across all campuses (there is some tweaking down state for COL ect). If you accept a job at a SUNY you accept the fact that your salary and benefits are governed by the collective bargaining agreement of the union.
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DeepPocket
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Re: SUNYAC 2022

Post by DeepPocket »

Bart wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 12:53 pm Won't disagree with your last sentence to a point. Sometime the customers value the experience of the school more than the education.

I am not a union steward or union board member. I do not know union law or history but from my understanding every job except the highest points (president, provost ect) is governed by the union shop. It was voted on that way well before I was associated with a SUNY. So while you do not have to be a member of the union your benefits and salary are negotiated by the union and they are the same across all campuses (there is some tweaking down state for COL ect). If you accept a job at a SUNY you accept the fact that your salary and benefits are governed by the collective bargaining agreement of the union.
The students are paying for the education and the experience, as they’ll often be living there for 4 years give or take. I won’t fault kids for valuing the totality of their time.

My experiences are solely private, and I guess I should be that much more thankful for that.
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Bart
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Re: SUNYAC 2022

Post by Bart »

DeepPocket wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 1:09 pm
Bart wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 12:53 pm Won't disagree with your last sentence to a point. Sometime the customers value the experience of the school more than the education.

I am not a union steward or union board member. I do not know union law or history but from my understanding every job except the highest points (president, provost ect) is governed by the union shop. It was voted on that way well before I was associated with a SUNY. So while you do not have to be a member of the union your benefits and salary are negotiated by the union and they are the same across all campuses (there is some tweaking down state for COL ect). If you accept a job at a SUNY you accept the fact that your salary and benefits are governed by the collective bargaining agreement of the union.
The students are paying for the education and the experience, as they’ll often be living there for 4 years give or take. I won’t fault kids for valuing the totality of their time.

My experiences are solely private, and I guess I should be that much more thankful for that.
Did not say kids were at fault for not valuing the totality of their time. Do not know where you go that from.
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DeepPocket
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Re: SUNYAC 2022

Post by DeepPocket »

Never said you did. I said “I won’t”.
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Bart
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Re: SUNYAC 2022

Post by Bart »

DeepPocket wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 2:00 pm Never said you did. I said “I won’t”.
Gotcha. You did.
InsiderRoll
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Re: SUNYAC 2022

Post by InsiderRoll »

Are we sure that a coach would fall into one of the unions? Particularly if it’s not a “faculty” coaching job and just a staff one? Full time or not, I can’t imagine every single SUNY employee falls into a union. I know that there is no college coach union - so perhaps you are grouping them in as faculty members. But I am not aware of any SUNY lacrosse coaching positions that hold that distinction.
Bart
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Re: SUNYAC 2022

Post by Bart »

InsiderRoll wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 7:02 am Are we sure that a coach would fall into one of the unions? Particularly if it’s not a “faculty” coaching job and just a staff one? Full time or not, I can’t imagine every single SUNY employee falls into a union. I know that there is no college coach union - so perhaps you are grouping them in as faculty members. But I am not aware of any SUNY lacrosse coaching positions that hold that distinction.
Yes. From my understanding the athletic departments are part of the collective bargaining unit that is part of the union. The only non union positions are the upper cabinet administration positions. These positions fall under the professional umbrella of the UUP union.

I reached out to someone who knew about union stuff yesterday. The way it was explained to me was that positions like this fall into a salary grade. These grades have a wide range of possibilities. If a person was hired at the top of the grade initially and then leveraged several discretionary salary increases early on due to successful season you could end up with the salary in question. If you can see the salary on See Through NY then it is a salary that is coming from the state or at least through the States system. This guy has been in the system for quite a while and he has not heard of a situation like the one described earlier but said it was not out of the realm of possibility but would think it would need to be an endowed position to do so. If it was not it would be a situation where the payout would be an honoraria and you would not see it on See Through NY.

Either way, glad the coach gets the salary he is getting. I hope he gets more next year.
Chousnake
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Re: SUNYAC 2022

Post by Chousnake »

Anybody have a scouting report on SUNYAC this season?
fanOlax
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Re: SUNYAC 2022

Post by fanOlax »

1 - Cortland
2 - Geneseo
3 - Oswego
4 - Brockport
5 - Oneonta
6 - Potsdam
7 - Plattsburgh
8 - SUNY New Paltz

Not a ton of insider info, most teams open up this weekend or in the next week. Will be interesting to see how things play out but I would expect Cortland on top with Geneseo behind them.
Leonard Washington
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Re: SUNYAC 2022

Post by Leonard Washington »

1 - Cortland
2 - Geneseo
3 - Oneonta
4 - Oswego
5 - Brockport
6 - Potsdam
7 - Plattsburgh
8 - New Paltz

Could be a few surprises this year and I really doubt my initial rankings actually hold up throughout the year
First of all, ya better check your tone. I dont think you know who you're talking to. I'm Leonard Washington...I don't get butt naked for nobody!!
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