Washington & Lee 2022

D3 Mens Lacrosse
GeneralBart
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Re: Washington & Lee 2022

Post by GeneralBart »

I am hearing that there may be a scrimmage with VMI in February -- not Lee/Jackson, however.
InsiderRoll
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Re: Washington & Lee 2022

Post by InsiderRoll »

Dehuntshigwa’es wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 2:08 pm
DeepPocket wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 9:33 pm W&L-centric highlights vs SVU

http://www.hudl.com/v/2G3wXq
Thank you DP! I thought after last season’s debacle that this would have been a contest. Bizarre, is all I can say. I’m hearing the VMI contests are being discontinued. York, CNU programs are moving forward. W&L is certainly competitive but is being passed by programs that just 10 years ago couldn’t match up. As more players are being produced at the high school level the number of colleges with the academic chops of W&L has remained static. W&L should be getting a greater share of the athletically talented strong academic lacrosse players that are coming out of all these high school programs. They need a recruiting czar !
I don’t think W&L recruits the same kids as York and CNU. Those kids likely don’t have the grades for W&L. Their competition is more likely NESCAC, Dartmouth, Low patriot league, some liberty and centennial.
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DeepPocket
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Re: Washington & Lee 2022

Post by DeepPocket »

InsiderRoll wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 3:56 pm I don’t think W&L recruits the same kids as York and CNU…
Of course not. York and CNU are recruiting kids who can win a game vs Southern Virginia. ;)

All kidding aside, Dehunt knows there are different academic tiers at play here. He has taken great pleasure in reminding me of that over the years :x

I think what Dehunt was getting at was, due to the growth of the game, there are more top flight lacrosse players, but not proportionately more who meet W&Ls standards, allowing other lacrosse programs with less stringent academic standards to grow at a faster pace than W&L.

IMHO I believe the “DI or bust” mentality prevalent today isn’t helping things here either.
MAC - The SEC of DIII lacrosse.
sipecoth
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Re: Washington & Lee 2022

Post by sipecoth »

DeepPocket wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 12:43 pm
NJlxrdad wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:22 am Very disappointing level of competition. I don't think the staff realized it would be this lopsided when it was set up. Not sure it was at all useful to evaluate anyone. VMI would have been a much better game and more useful.
Well, I mean yea, obviously they thought it would be stiffer competition. SVU not only beat them in the previous meeting, but out scored them 14 to 6 over the last 3 quarters.


Perhaps what was to be gained was some confidence, back from that loss. Could be one team was looking to scrimmage and evaluate different packages of talent, while the other was looking to win a “game” they thought they should’ve won last year. Could be a lot of things…

I’m guessing when the score was 15-0 in the second quarter of the scrimmage, and W&L kept firing, that the W&L coaches got to do exactly what they intended to do that day.
They are literally 10 min from each other, and it was probably super convenient. Also last year SVU won that game. No one would have expected it to be this lopsided. SVU has a new goalie, and lost a couple key seniors from last year's team. Not having Danemann was probably a surprise all around.

In a couple of the highlights, it looked like W&L were breaking SVU's ride which hurt them last year.

Will be interesting to see if this was just W&L improving greatly, or if SVU just is down that much.

SC
InsiderRoll
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Re: Washington & Lee 2022

Post by InsiderRoll »

DeepPocket wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 5:33 pm
InsiderRoll wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 3:56 pm I don’t think W&L recruits the same kids as York and CNU…
Of course not. York and CNU are recruiting kids who can win a game vs Southern Virginia. ;)

All kidding aside, Dehunt knows there are different academic tiers at play here. He has taken great pleasure in reminding me of that over the years :x

I think what Dehunt was getting at was, due to the growth of the game, there are more top flight lacrosse players, but not proportionately more who meet W&Ls standards, allowing other lacrosse programs with less stringent academic standards to grow at a faster pace than W&L.

IMHO I believe the “DI or bust” mentality prevalent today isn’t helping things here either.
Well said. Doing some research it appears York has really had W&Ls number for a while. Although they’ve also been a consistent top 5 to 10 team for 5 or 6 years now. WL is 3-2 vs CNU the past 5 years, I’d say those two are just about on par with each other.
JustPassingThrough
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Re: Washington & Lee 2022

Post by JustPassingThrough »

sipecoth wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 7:17 pm
DeepPocket wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 12:43 pm
NJlxrdad wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:22 am Very disappointing level of competition. I don't think the staff realized it would be this lopsided when it was set up. Not sure it was at all useful to evaluate anyone. VMI would have been a much better game and more useful.
Well, I mean yea, obviously they thought it would be stiffer competition. SVU not only beat them in the previous meeting, but out scored them 14 to 6 over the last 3 quarters.


Perhaps what was to be gained was some confidence, back from that loss. Could be one team was looking to scrimmage and evaluate different packages of talent, while the other was looking to win a “game” they thought they should’ve won last year. Could be a lot of things…

I’m guessing when the score was 15-0 in the second quarter of the scrimmage, and W&L kept firing, that the W&L coaches got to do exactly what they intended to do that day.
They are literally 10 min from each other, and it was probably super convenient. Also last year SVU won that game. No one would have expected it to be this lopsided. SVU has a new goalie, and lost a couple key seniors from last year's team. Not having Danemann was probably a surprise all around.

In a couple of the highlights, it looked like W&L were breaking SVU's ride which hurt them last year.

Will be interesting to see if this was just W&L improving greatly, or if SVU just is down that much.

SC
It looks like SVU committed to getting live reps in their 10-man ride, scoreboard-be-damned.
Dehuntshigwa’es
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Re: Washington & Lee 2022

Post by Dehuntshigwa’es »

DeepPocket wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 5:33 pm
InsiderRoll wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 3:56 pm I don’t think W&L recruits the same kids as York and CNU…
Of course not. York and CNU are recruiting kids who can win a game vs Southern Virginia. ;)

All kidding aside, Dehunt knows there are different academic tiers at play here. He has taken great pleasure in reminding me of that over the years :x

I think what Dehunt was getting at was, due to the growth of the game, there are more top flight lacrosse players, but not proportionately more who meet W&Ls standards, allowing other lacrosse programs with less stringent academic standards to grow at a faster pace than W&L.

IMHO I believe the “DI or bust” mentality prevalent today isn’t helping things here either.
You’re almost there DP. What I’m trying to impart, and not very successfully, is that there has been tremendous growth in the number of D3 teams but the growth has not been with schools that academically are on par with W&L. There aren’t more schools like W&L, Haverford, Tufts or an Amherst that are starting lax programs. The number of top tier academic colleges that have lacrosse are finite, while the number of colleges with slightly lower academic standards with lacrosse have exploded. There are only so many home’s available for a high school student sporting 1400 plus SAT’s out there. My point is with the growth of the sport at the high school level there are many more students available today with the academic record of achievement and lax skills required to play at W&L than in years past. W&L is simply not getting the talent that’s available out there in the marketplace. The school sells itself to some degree but falls short in exploiting what it has to offer.
Last edited by Dehuntshigwa’es on Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
smoova
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Re: Washington & Lee 2022

Post by smoova »

Dehuntshigwa’es wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:39 pmW&L is simply not getting the talent that’s available out there in the marketplace. The school sells itself to some degree but falls short in exploiting what it has to offer.
IME, this is partially about timing: W&L does not start regular conversations with top recruits early enough (i.e. long after NESCACs) and waits until after the NESCAC feeding frenzy (7/1-7/15) to make offers to the bulk of their targets. W&L has an advantage in that it can commit kids before 7/1 - if McCabe starts exploiting that, he'll land more top recruits (even if he loses a few flips here or there).
GeneralBart
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Re: Washington & Lee 2022

Post by GeneralBart »

Dips_lax
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Re: Washington & Lee 2022

Post by Dips_lax »

Interesting - no battle of the ampersands (F&M) this year. potentially a casualty of the covid/travel issues? Anyone have the scoop on if this is permanent or temporary gap? Last year it was an issue with the centennial conference playing in conference only but W&L seem to be travelling to York and Gettysburg this year. Maybe it was F&M but i think they plan a southern road trip for spring break so IDK.

Will miss this if the annual battles are over.
Dehuntshigwa’es
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Re: Washington & Lee 2022

Post by Dehuntshigwa’es »

Would most agree that there are 6 possibly 7 games against top 20 teams?
ctbagataway
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Re: Washington & Lee 2022

Post by ctbagataway »

Dips_lax wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:16 pm Interesting - no battle of the ampersands (F&M) this year. potentially a casualty of the covid/travel issues? Anyone have the scoop on if this is permanent or temporary gap? Last year it was an issue with the centennial conference playing in conference only but W&L seem to be travelling to York and Gettysburg this year. Maybe it was F&M but i think they plan a southern road trip for spring break so IDK.

Will miss this if the annual battles are over.
I too hope they renew this game. It has been a great series and it was always fun to visit Lancaster.
Can Opener
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Re: Washington & Lee 2022

Post by Can Opener »

smoova wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:20 pm
Dehuntshigwa’es wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:39 pmW&L is simply not getting the talent that’s available out there in the marketplace. The school sells itself to some degree but falls short in exploiting what it has to offer.
IME, this is partially about timing: W&L does not start regular conversations with top recruits early enough (i.e. long after NESCACs) and waits until after the NESCAC feeding frenzy (7/1-7/15) to make offers to the bulk of their targets. W&L has an advantage in that it can commit kids before 7/1 - if McCabe starts exploiting that, he'll land more top recruits (even if he loses a few flips here or there).
W&L should be a very attractive alternative to the NESCAC. Weather alone should be enough to turn some helmets southward. For New England kids, W&L also represents an opportunity to move beyond their roots and explore another part of the country. In my experience, lacrosse players and their families skew a little more conservative socially and politically and would probably be more comfortable in Lexington than in Amherst, for example. Academically, W&L ranks higher than most NESCACs, but many New England families would still be surprised to learn that fact. That is something very easy to remedy in the recruiting process.

The single biggest source of players in the NESCAC is the ISL league, but W&L doesn't have an ISL alum on its roster. It would be great to schedule an early season game at Tufts which is right in the heart of ISL country to raise awareness of the program. An offseason listening tour to connect with New England club and private school coaches would also go a long way toward opening the pipeline.
Dehuntshigwa’es
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Re: Washington & Lee 2022

Post by Dehuntshigwa’es »

Can Opener wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 4:15 pm
smoova wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:20 pm
Dehuntshigwa’es wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:39 pmW&L is simply not getting the talent that’s available out there in the marketplace. The school sells itself to some degree but falls short in exploiting what it has to offer.
IME, this is partially about timing: W&L does not start regular conversations with top recruits early enough (i.e. long after NESCACs) and waits until after the NESCAC feeding frenzy (7/1-7/15) to make offers to the bulk of their targets. W&L has an advantage in that it can commit kids before 7/1 - if McCabe starts exploiting that, he'll land more top recruits (even if he loses a few flips here or there).
W&L should be a very attractive alternative to the NESCAC. Weather alone should be enough to turn some helmets southward. For New England kids, W&L also represents an opportunity to move beyond their roots and explore another part of the country. In my experience, lacrosse players and their families skew a little more conservative socially and politically and would probably be more comfortable in Lexington than in Amherst, for example. Academically, W&L ranks higher than most NESCACs, but many New England families would still be surprised to learn that fact. That is something very easy to remedy in the recruiting process.

The single biggest source of players in the NESCAC is the ISL league, but W&L doesn't have an ISL alum on its roster. It would be great to schedule an early season game at Tufts which is right in the heart of ISL country to raise awareness of the program. An offseason listening tour to connect with New England club and private school coaches would also go a long way toward opening the pipeline.
Agree, W&L is a great alternative to any NESCAC team. Academically it stacks up extremely well. Weather is an enormous factor in New England and the distances on those mid week games are about as long or longer than any conference. The W&L alumni work exceedingly hard to help place graduates. Look at any player from W&L and see where they are 5 years later. Lastly a 1.5 Billion dollar endowment allows for many extras, along with a 4 year tuition free education if you are part of the 10% of the incoming class who has won a Johnson Scholarship. It’s a must visit destination if you are considering a NESCAC college. Blue Ridge country is pretty nice as well
NJlxrdad
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Re: Washington & Lee 2022

Post by NJlxrdad »

Dehuntshigwa’es wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:43 pm
Can Opener wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 4:15 pm
smoova wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:20 pm
Dehuntshigwa’es wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:39 pmW&L is simply not getting the talent that’s available out there in the marketplace. The school sells itself to some degree but falls short in exploiting what it has to offer.
IME, this is partially about timing: W&L does not start regular conversations with top recruits early enough (i.e. long after NESCACs) and waits until after the NESCAC feeding frenzy (7/1-7/15) to make offers to the bulk of their targets. W&L has an advantage in that it can commit kids before 7/1 - if McCabe starts exploiting that, he'll land more top recruits (even if he loses a few flips here or there).
W&L should be a very attractive alternative to the NESCAC. Weather alone should be enough to turn some helmets southward. For New England kids, W&L also represents an opportunity to move beyond their roots and explore another part of the country. In my experience, lacrosse players and their families skew a little more conservative socially and politically and would probably be more comfortable in Lexington than in Amherst, for example. Academically, W&L ranks higher than most NESCACs, but many New England families would still be surprised to learn that fact. That is something very easy to remedy in the recruiting process.

The single biggest source of players in the NESCAC is the ISL league, but W&L doesn't have an ISL alum on its roster. It would be great to schedule an early season game at Tufts which is right in the heart of ISL country to raise awareness of the program. An offseason listening tour to connect with New England club and private school coaches would also go a long way toward opening the pipeline.
Agree, W&L is a great alternative to any NESCAC team. Academically it stacks up extremely well. Weather is an enormous factor in New England and the distances on those mid week games are about as long or longer than any conference. The W&L alumni work exceedingly hard to help place graduates. Look at any player from W&L and see where they are 5 years later. Lastly a 1.5 Billion dollar endowment allows for many extras, along with a 4 year tuition free education if you are part of the 10% of the incoming class who has won a Johnson Scholarship. It’s a must visit destination if you are considering a NESCAC college. Blue Ridge country is pretty nice as well
The Alumni network is amazing, especially for lacrosse players.
Dehuntshigwa’es
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Re: Washington & Lee 2022

Post by Dehuntshigwa’es »

Anyone with thoughts as to the lineup this year. Who’s able to plug and play and are automatic starters this year. Who may turn out to surprise fans this year. Is there a freshman who will be impactful this year
NJlxrdad
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Re: Washington & Lee 2022

Post by NJlxrdad »

The offense had a lot more motion, cutting and passing than last year in the Fall. The midfield has some nice size and the D will be experienced in front of the new goalie. i like they aren't opening with York, feel like it has usually been W&L's first game but not Yorks. Not sure on starters but they need to find a way to get Tilt Fernandez, Boots Lackey and Deuce Smoot on a line together, perhaps the 3 best names in college lax
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: Washington & Lee 2022

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

Can Opener wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 4:15 pm
smoova wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:20 pm
Dehuntshigwa’es wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:39 pmW&L is simply not getting the talent that’s available out there in the marketplace. The school sells itself to some degree but falls short in exploiting what it has to offer.
IME, this is partially about timing: W&L does not start regular conversations with top recruits early enough (i.e. long after NESCACs) and waits until after the NESCAC feeding frenzy (7/1-7/15) to make offers to the bulk of their targets. W&L has an advantage in that it can commit kids before 7/1 - if McCabe starts exploiting that, he'll land more top recruits (even if he loses a few flips here or there).
W&L should be a very attractive alternative to the NESCAC. Weather alone should be enough to turn some helmets southward. For New England kids, W&L also represents an opportunity to move beyond their roots and explore another part of the country. In my experience, lacrosse players and their families skew a little more conservative socially and politically and would probably be more comfortable in Lexington than in Amherst, for example. Academically, W&L ranks higher than most NESCACs, but many New England families would still be surprised to learn that fact. That is something very easy to remedy in the recruiting process.

The single biggest source of players in the NESCAC is the ISL league, but W&L doesn't have an ISL alum on its roster. It would be great to schedule an early season game at Tufts which is right in the heart of ISL country to raise awareness of the program. An offseason listening tour to connect with New England club and private school coaches would also go a long way toward opening the pipeline.
My niece went to W&L and had a wonderful experience and my son was recruited by McCabe; lots and lots to recommend the school.

But, seriously, you think that the political environment of Lexington is more attractive to the typical lax player, much less one from the Northeast, than any of the NESCAC's, including Amherst???

Boy, that's a new one to me.
Dehuntshigwa’es
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Re: Washington & Lee 2022

Post by Dehuntshigwa’es »

I’d lean more to Can Opener’s view. I do believe that the typical NE laxer would be more politically aligned with students at W&L than they would an Amherst. I just get the sense that the NESCAC campuses are very “woke” as compared to W&L. I’m not sure your typical NE laxer subscribes to woke theology 😂
ctbagataway
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Re: Washington & Lee 2022

Post by ctbagataway »

My son graduated from W&L and we also know a lot of kids at the NESCACS. I completely agree with DeHunt. An average student athlete might not care about the political climate on campus, he/she would care a lot about the social life as well as the attitude towards athletes on campus. While a highly academic campus, W&L has an extremely active social scene that centers around Greek life. The kids work hard but also find a way to have a lot of fun. And athletics appear to be a core of the school, not just activities that are viewed as a necessary evil to maintain alumni giving like some other places. And, given the history at W&L, lacrosse is the top dog there. Believe me, there is a lot to like about the place as a student athlete.
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