NCAC 2022

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Nosey Ned
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NCAC 2022

Post by Nosey Ned »

Well I for one thinks it’s gotten to the time when we should flip the calendar and start looking to the new season! I can’t wait. Here’s hoping we can get back to the normal schedule packed with OOC to start and no more East West divisions in conference.

Lots to talk about … new coaches at Denison and Wabash. Old coaches that were looking to move but were ultimately passed over (if you believe the rumor mill). And will Allegheny finally get to face the 2 top dogs in the conference for the first time? 2 years as members and have yet to play the whole conference. I for one am excited to see them and their progress up close - which I expect to be significant.

Anyway … those are a few topics that we can chew over and below is my way too early predictions for conference standings…..

I have Denison and OWU playing again in the Conference Championship game. And I like the Big Red to win it again and go to the NCAA Tournament. These teams played as close as 2 teams could last year and I have DU coming out on top this year solely based on the fact that they lose less production and leadership to graduation then OWU. That and the fact that I’m an unapologetic Big Red fan.
Kenyon will be 3rd - I think a return to the normal IC schedule will hurt the Lords and more importantly the loss of a fantastic goalie (assuming he isn’t a 5th year) will prevent them from knocking off one of the top 2 dogs.

From there it’s anyone’s guess … but I expect Wooster, Wittenberg, Allegheny will be the next rung with DePauw, Oberline, Wabash and Hiram filling out the rest.
FannOLax
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Re: NCAC 2022

Post by FannOLax »

Nosey Ned wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 2:29 pm ...
Lots to talk about … new coaches at Denison and Wabash.
https://denisonbigred.com/news/2021/8/1 ... staff.aspx
Yes indeed, and these days there is probably no better D3 lacrosse school than Salisbury, and Rohde has previously coached with new Denison head coach Eric Koch. And if that's not enough, Denison breaks new ground in announcing a female coach, Maiah Bartlett, who coached a men's national team in Europe.

Nosey Ned wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 2:29 pm I have Denison and OWU playing again in the Conference Championship game.

This seems about as safe a prediction as possible, unless the NCAC gets divided again into two divisions with limited inter-division games that don't count as conference games, with the tie breaker being goal difference up to 10 per game, blah blah. So yes, Denison-OWU, OWU-Denison until proven otherwise. Let's hope for a relatively normal 2022 schedule, with out-of-conference games and plenty of fans in the stands.
Nosey Ned
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Re: NCAC 2022

Post by Nosey Ned »

Hey Fann …. glad to see you again. Hope all is well.

Yes, I assume Koch will handle the defense and Rohde the offense. They clearly have chemistry from time spent together at W&L, so that is certainly a plus. Interesting that Bartlett, on the IL podcast mentioned she has familiarity with Denison and Granville as she ran the camp store on campus at her father’s lacrosse camp. Below is the link to that podcast. Obviously if “she” were a “he”, IL wouldn’t have done the interview but hats off to them for acknowledging the significance of the hire. As a dad to daughters, I am all for gender equality and best of luck to her but I think the Koch/Rohde dynamic will be more instrumental in any success the Big Red have or don’t have - at least in the short term. But it will be interesting to follow her development as a DIII Asst coach. If I have any reservations it’s around her apparent lack of experience in recruiting- let’s hope she gets up the curve quickly and can “sell the program” successfully to the young men they look to bring on board.

Fann, as a fan of OWU, what’s your reaction to Plantholt being linked to not 1 but 2 different HC vacancies this summer? The Gettysburg job, yeah sure being an alum, I get that. But the Amherst job as well? Especially when the accepted belief was that most HC were choosing to stay put in the current environment and why we saw so many Assts getting their first HC jobs. He is of course welcome to follow his dream as he sees it, my question is more of how does he now show up to fall ball and ask his players and staff to “buy in” and live breath and sacrifice for the Bishops? Is there anything there or am I overthinking it? I assume it wasn’t the first off season he threw his name in the hat for an opening but those wouldn’t have garnered the attention these high profile openings did. And now he’s been specifically tied to wanting to move on to greener pastures.

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... lett/58350
Last edited by Nosey Ned on Thu Aug 19, 2021 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
seacoaster
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Re: NCAC 2022

Post by seacoaster »

Nosey Ned wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 3:26 pm Hey Fann …. glad to see you again. Hope all is well.

Yes, I assume Koch will handle the defense and Rohde the offense. They clearly have chemistry from time spent together at W&L, so that is certainly a plus. Interesting that Bartlett, on the IL podcast mentioned she has familiarity with Denison and Granville as she ran the camp store on campus at her father’s lacrosse camp. Below is the link to that podcast. Obviously if “she” were a “he”, IL wouldn’t have done the interview but hats off to them for acknowledging the significance of the hire. As a dad to daughters, I am all for gender equality and best of luck to her but I think the Koch/Rohde dynamic will be more instrumental in any success the Big Red have or don’t have - at least in the short term. But it will be interesting to follow her development as a DIII Asst coach. If I have any reservations it’s around her apparent lack of experience in recruiting- let’s hope she gets up the curve quickly and can “sell the program” successfully to the young men they look to bring on board.

Fann, as a fan of OWU, what’s your reaction to Plantholt being linked to not 1 but 2 different HC vacancies this summer? The Gettysburg job, yeah sure being an alum, I get that. But the Amherst job as well? Especially when the accepted belief was that most HC were choosing to stay put in the current environment and why we saw so many Assts getting their first HC jobs. He is of course welcome to follow his dream as he sees it, my question is more of how does he now show up to fall ball and ask his players and staff to “buy in” and live breath and sacrifice for the Bishops? Is there anything there or am I overthinking it? I assume it wasn’t there first time he threw his name in the hat but those wouldn’t have garnered the attention these high profile openings did. And now he’s been specifically tied to wanting to look for greener pastures.

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... lett/58350
Kudos to Koch for the hires, both of them.

I thought Fannolax was a Big Red supporter??
Nosey Ned
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Re: NCAC 2022

Post by Nosey Ned »

No, I’m very sure that he, like OldWU is a big OWU supporter, but unlike myself and Old, Fann is more even keeled and objective about things.
OldWU
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Re: NCAC 2022

Post by OldWU »

Let us not forget that Mike Caravana left Denison in 2005 for the job security provided by a prep school (Woodbury Forest) after fourteen seasons in Granville, and his replacement, Matt McGinnis stayed just three seasons. While Caravana left this year after 28 total seasons, his departure was a surprise to his players, since he was at least 5-6 years away from the normal retirement age. Because of sites like this one, there is more of a rumor mill than in the past. It shouldn't be a surprise that coaches apply for and consider other jobs.
FannOLax
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Re: NCAC 2022

Post by FannOLax »

Although some might not think it possible, I root for both OWU and Denison! Long story, starting in Granville and extending to the 1987 D3 semi-final in Delaware, Ohio when OWU thumped W&L 17-4...

Anyway, Plantholt. Amherst and Gettysburg are both very good schools academically, with lacrosse programs that have had more recent success than OWU. So, assuming the rumors are true, I suppose that they shouldn't be too surprising, especially Gettysburg, Plantholt's alma mater. Plantholt is from Maryland, so maybe he'd prefer to be back East. Also, during Plantholt's tenure OWU has lost some very good players to transfers (thinking Conor Cafrey to Saint Lawrence and Jack Harvey to Gettysburg), which must have stung. Still, I was surprised... but now that I think about it, I'm less surprised. Lelan Rogers and especially Mike Pressler set some pretty high standards for OWU lacrosse, and Plantholt's 2019 season fell way short; so far short that some alumni were probably grumbling. So better to go on one's own terms than... but then, well, what do I know? Anyway, I'd still like to know the story behind Whit Stopak transferring from Hofstra to OWU.
OldWU
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Re: NCAC 2022

Post by OldWU »

I don't pretend to know the Stopak inside story, but he's from Ohio, he saw limited playing time for the Pride, and the Coach's son was going for the scoring record on attack. Doesn't seem that strange to me.
Nosey Ned
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Re: NCAC 2022

Post by Nosey Ned »

OldWU wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 4:03 pm Let us not forget that Mike Caravana left Denison in 2005 for the job security provided by a prep school (Woodbury Forest) after fourteen seasons in Granville, and his replacement, Matt McGinnis stayed just three seasons. While Caravana left this year after 28 total seasons, his departure was a surprise to his players, since he was at least 5-6 years away from the normal retirement age. Because of sites like this one, there is more of a rumor mill than in the past. It shouldn't be a surprise that coaches apply for and consider other jobs.
Not sure how Caravana’s surprise departure (and apparent retirement) equates to seeking a new position.

But I guess your saying no one at OWU will hold it against him. You and I certainly know the way of the world and will let it slide, but can you say with absolute certainty that the 40 odd 18-22 year olds that make up his team feel the same?
Nosey Ned
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Re: NCAC 2022

Post by Nosey Ned »

FannOLax wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 4:59 pm Although some might not think it possible, I root for both OWU and Denison! Long story, starting in Granville and extending to the 1987 D3 semi-final in Delaware, Ohio when OWU thumped W&L 17-4...

Anyway, Plantholt. Amherst and Gettysburg are both very good schools academically, with lacrosse programs that have had more recent success than OWU. So, assuming the rumors are true, I suppose that they shouldn't be too surprising, especially Gettysburg, Plantholt's alma mater. Plantholt is from Maryland, so maybe he'd prefer to be back East. Also, during Plantholt's tenure OWU has lost some very good players to transfers (thinking Conor Cafrey to Saint Lawrence and Jack Harvey to Gettysburg), which must have stung. Still, I was surprised... but now that I think about it, I'm less surprised. Lelan Rogers and especially Mike Pressler set some pretty high standards for OWU lacrosse, and Plantholt's 2019 season fell way short; so far short that some alumni were probably grumbling. So better to go on one's own terms than... but then, well, what do I know? Anyway, I'd still like to know the story behind Whit Stopak transferring from Hofstra to OWU.
Interesting take. I wonder, if there is indeed frustration with Plantholt’s recent lack of success in getting to and performing in the NCAA tournament, if that will only grow if he is unable to overtake Denison consistently in these transition years that the Big Red will be going through for the foreseeable future.
OldWU
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Re: NCAC 2022

Post by OldWU »

My point is that both Denison and OWU have winning traditions that transcend who the coach is. OWU hasn't had a losing season since 1971 (asterisk on their 2-3 record in 2020) and they are second to Salisbury in most NCAA tournament appearances (29). OWU has had a string of great coaches including Rich Seiler, Jay Martin, Mike Pressler, and Leland Rogers. If Mike Plantholt should leave after 11 or 12 seasons, he would be replaced by a top-level coach, just like Mike Caravana was.
Nosey Ned
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Re: NCAC 2022

Post by Nosey Ned »

OldWU wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 6:28 pm My point is that both Denison and OWU have winning traditions that transcend who the coach is. OWU hasn't had a losing season since 1971 (asterisk on their 2-3 record in 2020) and they are second to Salisbury in most NCAA tournament appearances (29). OWU has had a string of great coaches including Rich Seiler, Jay Martin, Mike Pressler, and Leland Rogers. If Mike Plantholt should leave after 11 or 12 seasons, he would be replaced by a top-level coach, just like Mike Caravana was.
Now I follow. Very good point and one I completely agree with. OWU would be a dream opening for many quality coaches.

But that wasn’t the question. The question is will he have “lost the locker room” after a very public attempt to leave, failed? To be clear I’m not suggesting he went public… I’m pointing out that unfortunately with forums like this one, unfortunately these things get played out on a public stage. And I don’t like that they do to be honest.
OldWU
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Re: NCAC 2022

Post by OldWU »

Nosey Ned wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 7:30 pm
OldWU wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 6:28 pm My point is that both Denison and OWU have winning traditions that transcend who the coach is. OWU hasn't had a losing season since 1971 (asterisk on their 2-3 record in 2020) and they are second to Salisbury in most NCAA tournament appearances (29). OWU has had a string of great coaches including Rich Seiler, Jay Martin, Mike Pressler, and Leland Rogers. If Mike Plantholt should leave after 11 or 12 seasons, he would be replaced by a top-level coach, just like Mike Caravana was.
Now I follow. Very good point and one I completely agree with. OWU would be a dream opening for many quality coaches.

But that wasn’t the question. The question is will he have “lost the locker room” after a very public attempt to leave, failed? To be clear I’m not suggesting he went public… I’m pointing out that unfortunately with forums like this one, unfortunately these things get played out on a public stage. And I don’t like that they do to be honest.
I would take exception to your characterization of "very public attempt to leave" which you know is not true. Everything written about the OWU coach is from rumors and hearsay. Please stop. This is nonsense. His locker room will be fine.
FannOLax
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Re: NCAC 2022

Post by FannOLax »

OldWU wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 6:28 pm ... OWU has had a string of great coaches including Rich Seiler, Jay Martin, Mike Pressler, and Leland Rogers...
Great to see Rich Seiler getting some of the credit he deserves. A young, recent OWU grad, he did a tremendous job coaching the Bishops, had some impressive NCAA tourney wins (including one over Towson) that put OWU firmly on the lacrosse map. Yes, he was a coach in the first lacrosse game I ever saw, an OWU victory in Granville.
Nosey Ned
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Re: NCAC 2022

Post by Nosey Ned »

OldWU wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 10:10 pm
Nosey Ned wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 7:30 pm
OldWU wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 6:28 pm My point is that both Denison and OWU have winning traditions that transcend who the coach is. OWU hasn't had a losing season since 1971 (asterisk on their 2-3 record in 2020) and they are second to Salisbury in most NCAA tournament appearances (29). OWU has had a string of great coaches including Rich Seiler, Jay Martin, Mike Pressler, and Leland Rogers. If Mike Plantholt should leave after 11 or 12 seasons, he would be replaced by a top-level coach, just like Mike Caravana was.
Now I follow. Very good point and one I completely agree with. OWU would be a dream opening for many quality coaches.

But that wasn’t the question. The question is will he have “lost the locker room” after a very public attempt to leave, failed? To be clear I’m not suggesting he went public… I’m pointing out that unfortunately with forums like this one, unfortunately these things get played out on a public stage. And I don’t like that they do to be honest.
I would take exception to your characterization of "very public attempt to leave" which you know is not true. Everything written about the OWU coach is from rumors and hearsay. Please stop. This is nonsense. His locker room will be fine.
Fair enough, we don't know the accuracy of the reports so it's not right of me to advance second hand info. Topic dropped.
SouthernLaxGenius
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Re: NCAC 2022

Post by SouthernLaxGenius »

Is there any truth to the rumor that Allegheny is looking to leave the NCAC across the board :?:
boredatwork
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Re: NCAC 2022

Post by boredatwork »

SouthernLaxGenius wrote: Tue Aug 31, 2021 4:09 pm Is there any truth to the rumor that Allegheny is looking to leave the NCAC across the board :?:
yes

https://alleghenygators.com/news/2021/8 ... -2022.aspx
WhiteCarrera
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Re: NCAC 2022

Post by WhiteCarrera »

How had this stayed under the radar for 8 weeks?
It's either a thoughtful comment or smartass sarcasm. Learn to recognize the difference.
boredatwork
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Re: NCAC 2022

Post by boredatwork »

WhiteCarrera wrote: Tue Aug 31, 2021 6:00 pm How had this stayed under the radar for 8 weeks?
It was announced a week ago, the change is July 1 2022…so this is the last year in the ncac
Nosey Ned
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Re: NCAC 2022

Post by Nosey Ned »

boredatwork wrote: Tue Aug 31, 2021 6:12 pm
WhiteCarrera wrote: Tue Aug 31, 2021 6:00 pm How had this stayed under the radar for 8 weeks?
It was announced a week ago, the change is July 1 2022…so this is the last year in the ncac
Is it safe to assume the Gators will find the PAC an "easier" conference to have success in? I say that based on White C's earlier post that showed AC with only 4 NCAC Championships (all in cross country) in a Men's Sport since 2010. With this move I wouldn't be at all surprised to see them vying for the men's lax PAC championship in short order - certainly sooner than had they stayed in the NCAC - as I think Coach Pearce is doing a very good job getting that program up and running.

Side note - selfishly happy to get back the "open" date for Denison, allowing for another quality OOC game to be scheduled - like the Middlebury game in 2018 - a slot lost to NCAC commitment with AC joining as lax member in 2020.
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