NCAC 2021

D3 Mens Lacrosse
OldWU
Posts: 86
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 8:59 am

Re: NCAC 2021

Post by OldWU »

Nosey....agree that that split division format was a disaster and it carries over to this year's All-NCAC team, where nine members of the Kenyon squad make the team. I can think of another five Denison players and four Bishops who would have easily made these teams in the past. The silver lining is they got a season in and they made the most of it -- and the Denison-OWU rivalry is alive and well. Both teams have some great players coming back next year.
twomuchtoo
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:16 am

Re: NCAC 2021

Post by twomuchtoo »

Congratulations to Kenyon. They had a remarkable season by any standard. Kenyon had a number of games cancelled due to Covid protocol when a spike occurred on campus. It was unfortunate, and regardless of what the outcome would have been in these games, I'm sure the players on both teams would have liked to be playing lacrosse. Kenyon had eight seniors (six of them starters) that elected not to return this spring (watch out next year). Freshman were not permitted on campus (likely at least 2 or 3 would have started and contributed). Two of the remaining starters were injured at some point and out for season. At one point this already depleted squad had 7 players (including several now starters) quarantined for three games. Only three of the players that took the field in the final against Denison started last year. Their active roster has 23 players and some starters played out of position. Between what these men had to endure with on-campus protocols, lockdowns, semi-lockdowns, special practice protocols, their even fielding a team was an accomplishment let alone winning games against full squads. They may not be the best team in the conference this year but they have endured a lot, and got to the final with blood and sweat, guts and no tears.
Nosey Ned
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Re: NCAC 2021

Post by Nosey Ned »

twomuchtoo wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 7:40 pm Congratulations to Kenyon. They had a remarkable season by any standard. Kenyon had a number of games cancelled due to Covid protocol when a spike occurred on campus. It was unfortunate, and regardless of what the outcome would have been in these games, I'm sure the players on both teams would have liked to be playing lacrosse. Kenyon had eight seniors (six of them starters) that elected not to return this spring (watch out next year). Freshman were not permitted on campus (likely at least 2 or 3 would have started and contributed). Two of the remaining starters were injured at some point and out for season. At one point this already depleted squad had 7 players (including several now starters) quarantined for three games. Only three of the players that took the field in the final against Denison started last year. Their active roster has 23 players and some starters played out of position. Between what these men had to endure with on-campus protocols, lockdowns, semi-lockdowns, special practice protocols, their even fielding a team was an accomplishment let alone winning games against full squads. They may not be the best team in the conference this year but they have endured a lot, and got to the final with blood and sweat, guts and no tears.
Yes agreed! Kudos to Kenyon players for battling through for themselves and their teammates that were there. We talking heads like to think we're invested but even those who have played the collegiate game probably have no appreciation for what these players have (and continue to have) to endure just to be out there! Well done men... golf clap to all!
OldWU
Posts: 86
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 8:59 am

Re: NCAC 2021

Post by OldWU »

twomuchtoo wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 7:40 pm Congratulations to Kenyon. They had a remarkable season by any standard. Kenyon had a number of games cancelled due to Covid protocol when a spike occurred on campus. It was unfortunate, and regardless of what the outcome would have been in these games, I'm sure the players on both teams would have liked to be playing lacrosse. Kenyon had eight seniors (six of them starters) that elected not to return this spring (watch out next year). Freshman were not permitted on campus (likely at least 2 or 3 would have started and contributed). Two of the remaining starters were injured at some point and out for season. At one point this already depleted squad had 7 players (including several now starters) quarantined for three games. Only three of the players that took the field in the final against Denison started last year. Their active roster has 23 players and some starters played out of position. Between what these men had to endure with on-campus protocols, lockdowns, semi-lockdowns, special practice protocols, their even fielding a team was an accomplishment let alone winning games against full squads. They may not be the best team in the conference this year but they have endured a lot, and got to the final with blood and sweat, guts and no tears.
I hadn't realized all the Kenyon squad went through, but they did not get to the final "with blood and sweat, guts and no tears", but by a fluke that allowed them a place in the final by winning just four games against two teams -- neither of whom were particularly competitive. Kenyon should be in a power in the NCAC and hopefully they will continue to attract top players and be a force in 2022 and beyond.
twomuchtoo
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:16 am

Re: NCAC 2021

Post by twomuchtoo »

OldWU wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 8:45 am
twomuchtoo wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 7:40 pm Congratulations to Kenyon. They had a remarkable season by any standard. Kenyon had a number of games cancelled due to Covid protocol when a spike occurred on campus. It was unfortunate, and regardless of what the outcome would have been in these games, I'm sure the players on both teams would have liked to be playing lacrosse. Kenyon had eight seniors (six of them starters) that elected not to return this spring (watch out next year). Freshman were not permitted on campus (likely at least 2 or 3 would have started and contributed). Two of the remaining starters were injured at some point and out for season. At one point this already depleted squad had 7 players (including several now starters) quarantined for three games. Only three of the players that took the field in the final against Denison started last year. Their active roster has 23 players and some starters played out of position. Between what these men had to endure with on-campus protocols, lockdowns, semi-lockdowns, special practice protocols, their even fielding a team was an accomplishment let alone winning games against full squads. They may not be the best team in the conference this year but they have endured a lot, and got to the final with blood and sweat, guts and no tears.
I hadn't realized all the Kenyon squad went through, but they did not get to the final "with blood and sweat, guts and no tears", but by a fluke that allowed them a place in the final by winning just four games against two teams -- neither of whom were particularly competitive. Kenyon should be in a power in the NCAC and hopefully they will continue to attract top players and be a force in 2022 and beyond.
I don't agree. A fluke would be someone from OWU displaying any level of class that would recognize the accomplishment of others.
OldWU
Posts: 86
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Re: NCAC 2021

Post by OldWU »

twomuchtoo wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 10:28 am
OldWU wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 8:45 am
twomuchtoo wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 7:40 pm Congratulations to Kenyon. They had a remarkable season by any standard. Kenyon had a number of games cancelled due to Covid protocol when a spike occurred on campus. It was unfortunate, and regardless of what the outcome would have been in these games, I'm sure the players on both teams would have liked to be playing lacrosse. Kenyon had eight seniors (six of them starters) that elected not to return this spring (watch out next year). Freshman were not permitted on campus (likely at least 2 or 3 would have started and contributed). Two of the remaining starters were injured at some point and out for season. At one point this already depleted squad had 7 players (including several now starters) quarantined for three games. Only three of the players that took the field in the final against Denison started last year. Their active roster has 23 players and some starters played out of position. Between what these men had to endure with on-campus protocols, lockdowns, semi-lockdowns, special practice protocols, their even fielding a team was an accomplishment let alone winning games against full squads. They may not be the best team in the conference this year but they have endured a lot, and got to the final with blood and sweat, guts and no tears.
I hadn't realized all the Kenyon squad went through, but they did not get to the final "with blood and sweat, guts and no tears", but by a fluke that allowed them a place in the final by winning just four games against two teams -- neither of whom were particularly competitive. Kenyon should be in a power in the NCAC and hopefully they will continue to attract top players and be a force in 2022 and beyond.
I don't agree. A fluke would be someone from OWU displaying any level of class that would recognize the accomplishment of others.
I don't wish to get into a personal feud with you or anyone else. Facts are facts and everyone's entitled to their opinions. Good luck to Kenyon players, now and in the future.
SouthernLaxGenius
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Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:44 pm

Re: NCAC 2021

Post by SouthernLaxGenius »

The wounds are still fresh for some who back/support OWU as they feel they just needed one more crack at Denison and it would be them dancing.

We really shouldn't be mad at Kenyon or call anything a fluke for them, as they took care of the business put in front of them. The NCAC decided that if they were going to have men's lacrosse then this is the format it was going to be in.

Hopefully everything returns to a bit of normalcy in 22.
WhiteCarrera
Posts: 379
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:11 pm

Re: NCAC 2021

Post by WhiteCarrera »

Speaking of facts, looking at year-end ground ball/caused turnover stats for the top long-pole on each team in the West:

Denison 24/3
DePauw 34/12
OWU 27/14
Witt 23/3
Total 108/32

Wabash -- Evan Schiefelbein 107/ 27
....just sayin'
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OldWU
Posts: 86
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Re: NCAC 2021

Post by OldWU »

OldWU wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 11:06 am
twomuchtoo wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 10:28 am
OldWU wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 8:45 am
twomuchtoo wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 7:40 pm Congratulations to Kenyon. They had a remarkable season by any standard. Kenyon had a number of games cancelled due to Covid protocol when a spike occurred on campus. It was unfortunate, and regardless of what the outcome would have been in these games, I'm sure the players on both teams would have liked to be playing lacrosse. Kenyon had eight seniors (six of them starters) that elected not to return this spring (watch out next year). Freshman were not permitted on campus (likely at least 2 or 3 would have started and contributed). Two of the remaining starters were injured at some point and out for season. At one point this already depleted squad had 7 players (including several now starters) quarantined for three games. Only three of the players that took the field in the final against Denison started last year. Their active roster has 23 players and some starters played out of position. Between what these men had to endure with on-campus protocols, lockdowns, semi-lockdowns, special practice protocols, their even fielding a team was an accomplishment let alone winning games against full squads. They may not be the best team in the conference this year but they have endured a lot, and got to the final with blood and sweat, guts and no tears.
I hadn't realized all the Kenyon squad went through, but they did not get to the final "with blood and sweat, guts and no tears", but by a fluke that allowed them a place in the final by winning just four games against two teams -- neither of whom were particularly competitive. Kenyon should be in a power in the NCAC and hopefully they will continue to attract top players and be a force in 2022 and beyond.
I don't agree. A fluke would be someone from OWU displaying any level of class that would recognize the accomplishment of others.
I don't wish to get into a personal feud with you or anyone else. Facts are facts and everyone's entitled to their opinions. Good luck to Kenyon players, now and in the future.
OWU fans are not "mad" at Kenyon -- they took advantage of a unique situation. By the way, a fluke is "an unlikely chance occurrence, a surprising piece of luck". Only having to play four games against two opponents qualifies, in my book. The NCAC in their haste for 'return to play', set up a system that didn't end up being particularly fair or competitive. The season is over and the results are in the books. If they had to do it over again, they could have scrapped the east-west divisions and had each team play eight league games that make sense geographically, but that's a subject for another season. Good luck to Denison in the NCAA's, hopefully this is your year to get to Memorial Day Weekend....
WhiteCarrera
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Re: NCAC 2021

Post by WhiteCarrera »

So is that the Ohio State / Big Ten argument? A similar "fluke" left Ohio State football with a perfect record but not enough games to meet the conference's criteria. Not to pigeonhole an entire state, but the essential argument then was "We're so good, that you should now change the system to accommodate us, to the detriment of those other guys who have done everything asked of them but who we all know aren't as good as us, because in other years they haven't ... blah blah blah ... But we're Ohio State, dammit, and this shouldn't happen to us!"

No argument that OWU and Denison were the class of the conference this year, but we didn't really know that until they played the game. A format was created, and the COVID environment was consistent with what was envisioned -- IMHO the system should have stayed in place (just as it did).
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Nosey Ned
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Re: NCAC 2021

Post by Nosey Ned »

Congratulations to Centre and Coach Zimmerman. Huge win for a good team and a great young coach. Good luck tomorrow.

Denison is young - they will learn from this loss - and they’ll be back next year.
MrLax2U
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Re: NCAC 2021

Post by MrLax2U »

Post by Nosey Ned » Sun May 09, 2021 9:21 pm
Great side note to Denison’s first round matchup with Centre - Centre head coach Grant Zimmerman was on Coach Caravana’s staff before taking the Centre job. He’s a great young coach and has done a fabulous job with the Colonels. Coach Z was a big part of the Denison’s success in 2016-18. The Big Red better be prepared to face a stout defense. Can’t wait to watch this game.
Exciting game to watch. I didn't expect the result but to give credit Ned gave us a "Heads Up".

For surfing the other games I didn't watch the whole contest but my impression was Big Red, slightly better coached; Centre, bigger, more athletic. They'll only get better next year. Home field advantage probably worth a point or two.

Ned, See you May 2022 in Gullistan.
Nosey Ned
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Re: NCAC 2021

Post by Nosey Ned »

MrLax2U wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 6:40 pm
Post by Nosey Ned » Sun May 09, 2021 9:21 pm
Great side note to Denison’s first round matchup with Centre - Centre head coach Grant Zimmerman was on Coach Caravana’s staff before taking the Centre job. He’s a great young coach and has done a fabulous job with the Colonels. Coach Z was a big part of the Denison’s success in 2016-18. The Big Red better be prepared to face a stout defense. Can’t wait to watch this game.
Exciting game to watch. I didn't expect the result but to give credit Ned gave us a "Heads Up".

For surfing the other games I didn't watch the whole contest but my impression was Big Red, slightly better coached; Centre, bigger, more athletic. They'll only get better next year. Home field advantage probably worth a point or two.

Ned, See you May 2022 in Gullistan.
Thanks MrLax .... now that the season is done I can let on that I knew this team wasn’t “ready for prime time”. That said, I still thought we had enough to win a game or two in the tournament. But hey, 29 other teams will feel like the Big Red do now - they’re just feeling it sooner than I would have liked. Denison will be back, of that I’m sure!

I’m very serious about my respect and admiration for Coach Zimmerman. He’s a young coach to watch! Again, good luck to Coach Z and his Colonels tomorrow and beyond!
D3 Fan
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Re: NCAC 2021

Post by D3 Fan »

Congrats to Centre! Coach Zimmerman comes from a great family, played in the highly touted MIAA here in Baltimore, 4 year starter at UNC...he's the real deal and glad to see him succeed.

Denison will be back, great tradition and coaching, solid school and lax program.
Nosey Ned
Posts: 459
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:13 am

Re: NCAC 2021

Post by Nosey Ned »

The Big Red and the NCAC says goodbye to one of the best coaches in all lacrosse- all divisions. Thank you and goodbye Coach Caravana - you will be sorely missed!

https://denisonbigred.com/sports/mlax/index
grelch
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Re: NCAC 2021

Post by grelch »

😳 Thats a huge story right there. The players must be shocked. What an incredible career he’s had. Coach Thomsen was still there when I graduated from Denison (I wasn’t a player anymore. High school was the last time I played). I guess I didn’t realize that Coach Caravana took over for Tommy. What an incredible career.

I wonder whether he’s retiring, or moving to another program. And obviously I’m curious about whether they’ve got someone lined up already. Whatever the case, congratulations and thanks to Coach Caravana. What a legacy he leaves.
FannOLax
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Re: NCAC 2021

Post by FannOLax »

grelch wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 1:14 pm 😳 Thats a huge story right there. The players must be shocked. What an incredible career he’s had. Coach Thomsen was still there when I graduated from Denison (I wasn’t a player anymore. High school was the last time I played). I guess I didn’t realize that Coach Caravana took over for Tommy. What an incredible career.

I wonder whether he’s retiring, or moving to another program. And obviously I’m curious about whether they’ve got someone lined up already. Whatever the case, congratulations and thanks to Coach Caravana. What a legacy he leaves.
He took over from legendary Tommy, then left for a prep school job in Virginia. Matt McGinnis coached Denison for a few years, as Caravana came back to Ohio via being Otterbein's first head coach. He seems to have been much more motivated the second time around. Interesting to see not only where he goes from here, but whom Denison will hire.
grelch
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Re: NCAC 2021

Post by grelch »

A buddy of mine spoke to him. He’s retiring from lacrosse.
Cheeseandcrackers
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Re: NCAC 2021

Post by Cheeseandcrackers »

From an OWU fan, congrats to Coach Caravana on a great coaching career. Love him or hate him, you have to admit his success has lifted the NCAC. Missing from all the press reports - Caravana was also a very good player on some very good UVA teams in the late '70s-early '80s. Best of luck to him in the next chapter.
WhiteCarrera
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Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:11 pm

Re: NCAC 2021

Post by WhiteCarrera »

Some good stuff in here, with Forbes magazine creating financial GPA scores for private colleges. It's interesting to see where all the NCAC and other schools fall.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/schifrin/2 ... 42b0ef4916
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