Preseason Top 10

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Gobigred
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Re: Preseason Top 10

Post by Gobigred »

blue angels wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 10:55 pm
Gobigred wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 7:44 am
MoralTerpitude wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 6:54 pm I think Cornell is underrated because of the perception that they got hot in the tournament. All of their losses can pretty much attributed to one of three things: inconsistency from Petrakis, injuries to frontline guys (most importantly Blake), and playing particular games on short rest. Buczek now has a full season under his belt as a head coach. They are only going to get better.
Don't you understand that no Ivy could possibly be predicted above Virginia and Notre Dame? :roll: I mean...Cornell was "inconsistent" last year, and, of course, ND and Virginia were impeccably consistent...losing every regular season game they played against eventual NCAA tournament teams.
Hmmm…… I think Virginia beat Brown, at Brown, pretty handily in the tournament, who smoked Cornell 13-8, in the regular season, but who cares…..
Do you understand what "regular season" means?
Farfromgeneva
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Re: Preseason Top 10

Post by Farfromgeneva »

blue angels wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 10:55 pm
Gobigred wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 7:44 am
MoralTerpitude wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 6:54 pm I think Cornell is underrated because of the perception that they got hot in the tournament. All of their losses can pretty much attributed to one of three things: inconsistency from Petrakis, injuries to frontline guys (most importantly Blake), and playing particular games on short rest. Buczek now has a full season under his belt as a head coach. They are only going to get better.
Don't you understand that no Ivy could possibly be predicted above Virginia and Notre Dame? :roll: I mean...Cornell was "inconsistent" last year, and, of course, ND and Virginia were impeccably consistent...losing every regular season game they played against eventual NCAA tournament teams.
Hmmm…… I think Virginia beat Brown, at Brown, pretty handily in the tournament, who smoked Cornell 13-8, in the regular season, but who cares….. No one was beating Maryland last year. It was only a matter of when you had to play them, as to how far you were going to get. It is amazing all the continuous bitching and whining about the ACC. The apparent inferiority complex just never stops on this site. You would think Maryland fans, finally getting to be champs, would be gracious victors, but even many of them just can’t let it go. People, The early polls mean nada……..
Means a lot outside the top 10-13 for programs trying to be the next: Duke, Denver, Loyola, Towson, Denver etc. but point taken otherwise.
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Laxfanatic2022
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Re: Preseason Top 10

Post by Laxfanatic2022 »

Gobigred wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:32 am
blue angels wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 10:55 pm
Gobigred wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 7:44 am
MoralTerpitude wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 6:54 pm I think Cornell is underrated because of the perception that they got hot in the tournament. All of their losses can pretty much attributed to one of three things: inconsistency from Petrakis, injuries to frontline guys (most importantly Blake), and playing particular games on short rest. Buczek now has a full season under his belt as a head coach. They are only going to get better.
Don't you understand that no Ivy could possibly be predicted above Virginia and Notre Dame? :roll: I mean...Cornell was "inconsistent" last year, and, of course, ND and Virginia were impeccably consistent...losing every regular season game they played against eventual NCAA tournament teams.
Hmmm…… I think Virginia beat Brown, at Brown, pretty handily in the tournament, who smoked Cornell 13-8, in the regular season, but who cares…..
Do you understand what "regular season" means?
I’d have to agree on the Cornell being underrated. They had 7 wins against tournament teams all season including playoffs. Not sure anyone else had higher besides Maryland. People are forgetting they absolutely blew out Rutgers in the final four. Rutgers scored about 3-4 goals with starters out to make that look closer. The team who beat penn 10-8 the week before. They were injured the entire year and once some of their lineup came back they looked amazing. They return basically all of their roster with a young great coach. They are a top 3 team IMO
ICGrad
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Re: Preseason Top 10

Post by ICGrad »

blue angels wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:14 am Maryland, until defeated, should start at #1 over the field regardless of their graduation losses.
blue angels wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:14 am Most of these polls appear based primarily on last season and aren't evaluating the impact of graduation losses and only somewhat on additions.
Interesting juxtaposition...
Gobigred
Posts: 444
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:40 am

Re: Preseason Top 10

Post by Gobigred »

ICGrad wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:47 pm
blue angels wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:14 am Maryland, until defeated, should start at #1 over the field regardless of their graduation losses.
blue angels wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:14 am Most of these polls appear based primarily on last season and aren't evaluating the impact of graduation losses and only somewhat on additions.
Interesting juxtaposition...
Very perceptive observation.
Comeonman
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Re: Preseason Top 10

Post by Comeonman »

Georgetown is ranked where it should be going into 23. Yes, they lose a few steps on defense, but even if they don’t repeat as tops in NCAA Scoring Defense, they should still be top 5 at the end. The offense will get better under Hogan and with the four additions. They should better than their #5 in NCAA Scoring Offense this year. The two GU they lost happened when the O didn’t show up, scoring less than 10 goals v Princeton and Delaware. In terms of the Big East being weak, I agree on the bottom half of that league, but Denver and Nova are in the top third nationally no matter how you slice it. Last, I agree with you on Cornell. Flip them and ND and the top 5 looks right, although Princeton could have a say at #5 instead.
Wheels
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Re: Preseason Top 10

Post by Wheels »

The team with the fewest questions is UVA, IMO. You have to squint really hard to find many holes in that lineup from talent or experience perspectives. You have to think their close defense will be healthier this year. LaSalla is back, and he's probably going to be healthier.

Georgetown solved its "lack of guys who can draw a slide" problem through the portal. Their defensive midfield took some graduation hits. Can they plug and play in goal? Give Warne credit, too, he's going to schedule tough non-con games because he knows the Hoyas will barely get tested in the BE.

This might sound crazy to some people, but I don't think Maryland's offense drops off all that much. After Jared left, everyone thought the offense would drop off. It didn't. The Terps still have several players who can draw slides, and they're still going to move the ball better than anyone else in the country. The real question mark, and it's a huge question mark, is in the short stick defensive midfield. We've seen really good goalies and close defenders at Maryland, but when your shorties get isolated and attacked, it forces the defense to rotate. Graduating 4 shorties who are all in the PLL should tell you how nearly impossible it will be to replace them. Even if Trader does play lacrosse this year (consider me skeptical even if he said he would...he's going to start at safety this fall, and I can't believe Locksley would want him logging 3 miles of physical running a game in the spring) and with Josh Coffman returning (and Lacey transferring from SHU), that group of 4 graduates from last year was special. They made that defense elite.

And I really like Cornell and Princeton. What Adler did in the title game against Maryland was impressive. They moved him all over the field to erase whichever Terp got hot. Kirst is going to be a Tewy finalist. Even through Princeton graduated Baughan and Peters, they have a ton of talent and play hard as hell.
PulpExposure
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Re: Preseason Top 10

Post by PulpExposure »

Wheels wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:24 pm The team with the fewest questions is UVA, IMO. You have to squint really hard to find many holes in that lineup from talent or experience perspectives. You have to think their close defense will be healthier this year. LaSalla is back, and he's probably going to be healthier.
I agree - they're stacked. I do think losing Matt Moore does hurt them as they really did have two quarterbacks on the field when it was him and Schellenberger. But they'll be an absolute force.

This might sound crazy to some people, but I don't think Maryland's offense drops off all that much. After Jared left, everyone thought the offense would drop off. It didn't.
I don't think it's going to be a 10 goal a game offense, but they did lose their all-time points scorer, and Khan. Those two losses hurt. I mean when Bernhardt left, they still had Logan. And then picked up Khan in the portal. Those two guys (and Demaio who was clutch) will be very hard to replace.

Donville was great, but I don't think midfield will be the issue here. It's going to be who is the attack who can draw the slide...
The real question mark, and it's a huge question mark, is in the short stick defensive midfield. We've seen really good goalies and close defenders at Maryland, but when your shorties get isolated and attacked, it forces the defense to rotate. Graduating 4 shorties who are all in the PLL should tell you how nearly impossible it will be to replace them. Even if Trader does play lacrosse this year (consider me skeptical even if he said he would...he's going to start at safety this fall, and I can't believe Locksley would want him logging 3 miles of physical running a game in the spring) and with Josh Coffman returning (and Lacey transferring from SHU), that group of 4 graduates from last year was special. They made that defense elite.
Completely agree. Never seen a dmid set like it before. Lacey should be good, and Coffman if he's back will be good, but there's a difference between good and what they had last year.

I think Cornell is a really good team. They return a lot and they have potential gamechangers all over the field.
jrn19
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Re: Preseason Top 10

Post by jrn19 »

I'd still start Maryland at 1, because the nucleus with McNaney in goal, Makar and Zapitello at Close D, Wierman at the dot is just so strong. Those are Top 5 at their position in the country guys, Wierman the best. Offensively there is going to be a drop-off as you don't have a guarantee win-their-matchup guy at attack (for now) but Malever-Murphy-Long are still top end guys who will be able to draw slides and they've got guys like Spanos and Kelly as uber talented younger guys to step in, plus Brennan and Koras have been productive. And they'll get tons of possessions. My questions are less the 6-on-6 either end with them but where they were so clearly better than the rest of the country last year: SSDM group and non-traditional goals. They had the best SSDM group in the country by a mile, one of the best I've ever seen. They're not going 4 deep this year, so far it looks like they've got 2 reliable guys. Will need to develop a 3rd/4th. And then they had like 30+ goals from d-mids or off face-offs, in transition. Puglise had 10+ goals himself. Wierman had 10+. long poles had some. Can Wierman replicate that? Some of the poles? Prob not replacing Puglise's 10+ goals. But still, to start look like most balanced.

I like Princeton a lot, at 2 or 3. Losing Chris Brown is a tough loss, but Slusher emerged as a great dodger, English is one of the best middies in the country, and they've got a lot of young talent on that offense and they move the ball better than anyone but Maryland. Their spacing is so good. They're going to score a lot of goals. Baughan and Peters are also tough losses but I like the young poles they have and Gianforcaro was a former 5-star recruit I believe. They always seem to have an abundance of two-way middies. They should be healthier throughout the year at face-off. And they are so darn athletic and strong.

Virginia is a definite Top 3. They're not going to be as banged up as they were last year. I'd expect Shellenberger to reenforce himself as the best attackmen in the game. Schutz is only going to get better. Got every starter on offense back but Moore, which is a tough loss and they'll need to find a second primary ballhandler to Shelly but they've got all those big freshmen on offense coming in who will be studs. All the poles are back and will be healthier, do think they need to develop more short stick d mid depth. Lasalla is going to be a big advantage, and Nunes should be sturdier than he was as a frosh

I like what Georgetown did a lot in the portal. Dordevic gives them the best dodger they've had since Bucaro graduated. Minicus, Solomon, Kelly are strong additions and should be able to get some really good match-ups with Dordevic and Bundy drawing the Top 2 poles every time out. They had two guys last year who just could not even beat a shortie, and this year I think they could roll out a line-up where it's only 1 or maybe 0, which is a big boon. They'll be strong again at Close D with Bowen and Donaldson and should be strong in goal, if not as good with Hincks in for McElroy. Reilly back on face-offs. I think their closer to 5-6 than 1-3 but I'd start them in the Top 5.

I'd have Cornell at 5. You could make an argument they'll have the best offensive and defensive player in the country by the end of the year. Adler already is and Kirst is going to be a total superstar. They should be much deeper at the midfield and therefore be more balanced on offense than last year. They're going to be strong on both sides of the ball and I think some of the inconsistencies we saw from them last year probably get ironed out having now had a full season under their belts in the return from COVID.

Notre Dame would be 6 for me.
Wheels
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Re: Preseason Top 10

Post by Wheels »

jrn19 wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 5:04 pm Puglise had 10+ goals himself. Wierman had 10+. long poles had some. Can Wierman replicate that? Some of the poles? Prob not replacing Puglise's 10+ goals.
You'd have to go back to the 2020-shortened and 2021 seasons to get a sense of Josh Coffman's game. He has a burst and athleticism that is tailor-made for how the Terps get out in transition. I could easily see him netting 10+ goals in transition OR doing what Bubba did. Coffman saw time as a 2nd MF as a freshman. He can invert and dodge. Depending upon how his knee recovery has gone, he'd be a mix between Puglise and Bubba. The SHU xfer looks imposing as hell. We got so spoiled last year seeing 4 shorties who you really just could not dodge, so much so that teams decided to take their whacks at dodging against Rahill.

Chase Cope started the High Point game last year but broke his foot in that game. His injury is what ensured that Bubba would only play defense last year (Alex Smith didn't return until after the Cuse game). He was actually healthy during the playoff run but didn't play. Let's say Trader does play and does run as a shorty, could a Coffman-Lacey/Cope-Trader be a good set of shorties? Yes. But that unit last year was just absurd.

Also, it will be interesting to see who gets that 2nd LSM spot behind Geppert. Tills has recruited well at that spot.
10stone5
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Re: Preseason Top 10

Post by 10stone5 »

PulpExposure wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 3:03 pm
Wheels wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:24 pm The team with the fewest questions is UVA, IMO. You have to squint really hard to find many holes in that lineup from talent or experience perspectives. You have to think their close defense will be healthier this year. LaSalla is back, and he's probably going to be healthier.
I agree - they're stacked. I do think losing Matt Moore does hurt them as they really did have two quarterbacks on the field when it was him and Schellenberger. But they'll be an absolute force.

This might sound crazy to some people, but I don't think Maryland's offense drops off all that much. After Jared left, everyone thought the offense would drop off. It didn't.
I don't think it's going to be a 10 goal a game offense, but they did lose their all-time points scorer…
And also,
I hadn’t realized, but Matt Moore finished his career as UVA’s all time scorer — 2 NCAA national titles, all time leader in scoring at UVA — Moore definitely stands apart from most other players who have passed through Charlottesville.

There are definite similarities to Wisnauskas - Wisnauskas similarly stands apart at Maryland.

And I’d have to agree,
in the case of both Wisnauskas and Moore there is a factory of hyper talented players ready to step into their roles - of course, the most current example of this being where Wisnauskas took over for Bernhardt.
kramerica.inc
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Re: Preseason Top 10

Post by kramerica.inc »

Loyola and Charlie Toomey love this thread.
Lots of sprints to start 2023 season.
rolldodge
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Re: Preseason Top 10

Post by rolldodge »

Wheels wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:24 pmGeorgetown solved its "lack of guys who can draw a slide" problem through the portal.
Lack of attackmen who could draw a slide. Bundy, McDermott, and Hess all can draw a slide and will all be back next year.
Wheels
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Re: Preseason Top 10

Post by Wheels »

rolldodge wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:08 am
Wheels wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:24 pmGeorgetown solved its "lack of guys who can draw a slide" problem through the portal.
Lack of attackmen who could draw a slide. Bundy, McDermott, and Hess all can draw a slide and will all be back next year.
I guess it depends on where Dordevic plays. Kelly seems more like a step down shooter, but he's not exactly someone that an opponent could short stick, either.
rolldodge
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Re: Preseason Top 10

Post by rolldodge »

Wheels wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:38 pm
rolldodge wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:08 am
Wheels wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:24 pmGeorgetown solved its "lack of guys who can draw a slide" problem through the portal.
Lack of attackmen who could draw a slide. Bundy, McDermott, and Hess all can draw a slide and will all be back next year.
I guess it depends on where Dordevic plays. Kelly seems more like a step down shooter, but he's not exactly someone that an opponent could short stick, either.
I'm more and more convinced with Bundy and McDermott returning and some potential for freshman middies to get time (not to mention Hess as a wildcard) that Dordevic will play attack. Will be interesting to see how the lineups evolve. Either way, it's going to be one of the better top 6 lineups in the country.
jrn19
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Re: Preseason Top 10

Post by jrn19 »

Dordevic should def play attack for Georgetown. He'll be either their best or 2nd best dodger behind Bundy. That guy needs to be on the field the whole game
blue angels
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Re: Preseason Top 10

Post by blue angels »

Gobigred wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 1:25 pm
ICGrad wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:47 pm
blue angels wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:14 am Maryland, until defeated, should start at #1 over the field regardless of their graduation losses.
blue angels wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:14 am Most of these polls appear based primarily on last season and aren't evaluating the impact of graduation losses and only somewhat on additions.
Interesting juxtaposition...
Very perceptive observation.
Yep. IMO, both are true. The last champion should start #1 until defeated. I certainly Hope Cornell gets ranked above Virginia, pre season, since it is apparently of such immense importance to some of you. Then the season can play out whichever way it does.
Gobigred
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Re: Preseason Top 10

Post by Gobigred »

blue angels wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:39 am
Gobigred wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 1:25 pm
ICGrad wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:47 pm
blue angels wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:14 am Maryland, until defeated, should start at #1 over the field regardless of their graduation losses.
blue angels wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:14 am Most of these polls appear based primarily on last season and aren't evaluating the impact of graduation losses and only somewhat on additions.
Interesting juxtaposition...
Very perceptive observation.
Yep. IMO, both are true. The last champion should start #1 until defeated.
Both above sentences are nonsense. Secondly, no one cares who is ranked above whom in preseason, but when the expressed justification for someone's rankings is also nonsense, it is fair to point that out.
ICGrad
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Re: Preseason Top 10

Post by ICGrad »

blue angels wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:39 am Yep. IMO, both are true. The last champion should start #1 until defeated.
Interesting perspective. So no matter what, you would rank the previous season's NC as #1? I mean, if that's your philosophy, I guess, though it seems a bit silly.
blue angels wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:39 am I certainly Hope Cornell gets ranked above Virginia, pre season, since it is apparently of such immense importance to some of you. Then the season can play out whichever way it does.
Is this directed at me? I could give a rat's ass where Cornell is ranked in the pre-season. I did enjoy where they ended last season ranked, though...even while wishing it was just a little bit higher.
Last edited by ICGrad on Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
jrn19
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Re: Preseason Top 10

Post by jrn19 »

The “the team who ended last year #1 should always start the next season #1” thing is silly logic. They’re not the same team as the year before, it’s not the 2022 Maryland team defending the title in 2023, it’s the 2023 team. You inevitably run yourself into an incredulous #1 pick if there’s a total shock champion, like when UNC won in 2016 and then some people had them #1 to start 2017 and they were hardly a Top 10 team.
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