Big Ten 2023

[jhu06]

Maryland isn’t mediocre, academically.

It is.

FWIW UMD is #59 in US News poll, tied with Pitt and U of Wash. JHU is #9 tied with Duke, Cal Tech and Northwestern.

Not to dump on your narrative about how elite a school is mattering, but about every 3-4 months I read a story about how employers particularly in finance prefer athletes over other students. Obviously the school has some impact, but would you rather have a maryland lacrosse player or some kid who participated in study abroad at cornell and didn't do much else other than maybe volunteer w/some at risk kids?

This guy has research that said things are going other direction though I guess.
https://www.efinancialcareers.com/news/ ... iety-jocks

[blue angels]

Maryland isn’t mediocre, academically.

It is.

FWIW UMD is #59 in US News poll, tied with Pitt and U of Wash. JHU is #9 tied with Duke, Cal Tech and Northwestern.

Not to dump on your narrative about how elite a school is mattering, but about every 3-4 months I read a story about how employers particularly in finance prefer athletes over other students. Obviously the school has some impact, but would you rather have a maryland lacrosse player or some kid who participated in study abroad at cornell and didn't do much else other than maybe volunteer w/some at risk kids?

This guy has research that said things are going other direction though I guess.
https://www.efinancialcareers.com/news/ ... iety-jocks

This ridiculous comparison of taking the lax player from Maryland over the Cornell Grad with not a lot of accolades seems completely mindless……Depends on the job…….. and on the required finance skills of the prospective employee….. Cornell is no doubt a more elite academic school, but there are certainly some smart kids on the Maryland lacrosse team who would match up well with the average Cornell student intellectually but not all of them …..

[Drcthru]

Maryland isn’t mediocre, academically.

It is.

FWIW UMD is #59 in US News poll, tied with Pitt and U of Wash. JHU is #9 tied with Duke, Cal Tech and Northwestern.

i doubt they're really all tied. that would be impossible.

Read it and weep! https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/ra ... iversities

[Big Dog]

Maryland isn’t mediocre, academically.

It is.

FWIW UMD is #59 in US News poll, tied with Pitt and U of Wash. JHU is #9 tied with Duke, Cal Tech and Northwestern.

i doubt they're really all tied. that would be impossible.

Read it and weep! https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/ra ... iversities

And don't forget taht UMD is #20 (tied) on the list of publics, behind even the 'mid-tier' UC's. Barely beating out Penn State adn Rutgers.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/ra ... top-public

[Asgot]

Maryland isn’t mediocre, academically.

It is.

FWIW UMD is #59 in US News poll, tied with Pitt and U of Wash. JHU is #9 tied with Duke, Cal Tech and Northwestern.

Not to dump on your narrative about how elite a school is mattering, but about every 3-4 months I read a story about how employers particularly in finance prefer athletes over other students. Obviously the school has some impact, but would you rather have a maryland lacrosse player or some kid who participated in study abroad at cornell and didn't do much else other than maybe volunteer w/some at risk kids?

This guy has research that said things are going other direction though I guess.
https://www.efinancialcareers.com/news/ ... iety-jocks

This ridiculous comparison of taking the lax player from Maryland over the Cornell Grad with not a lot of accolades seems completely mindless……Depends on the job…….. and on the required finance skills of the prospective employee….. Cornell is no doubt a more elite academic school, but there are certainly some smart kids on the Maryland lacrosse team who would match up well with the average Cornell student intellectually but not all of them …..

Be honest Cornell is a second tier Ivy school and really not
Much better than most Big Ten schools. I know plenty of finance guys that prefer athletes as they understand how to work and grind and can deal with people.

[Big Dog]

Maryland isn’t mediocre, academically.

It is.

FWIW UMD is #59 in US News poll, tied with Pitt and U of Wash. JHU is #9 tied with Duke, Cal Tech and Northwestern.

Not to dump on your narrative about how elite a school is mattering, but about every 3-4 months I read a story about how employers particularly in finance prefer athletes over other students. Obviously the school has some impact, but would you rather have a maryland lacrosse player or some kid who participated in study abroad at cornell and didn't do much else other than maybe volunteer w/some at risk kids?

This guy has research that said things are going other direction though I guess.
https://www.efinancialcareers.com/news/ ... iety-jocks

This ridiculous comparison of taking the lax player from Maryland over the Cornell Grad with not a lot of accolades seems completely mindless……Depends on the job…….. and on the required finance skills of the prospective employee….. Cornell is no doubt a more elite academic school, but there are certainly some smart kids on the Maryland lacrosse team who would match up well with the average Cornell student intellectually but not all of them …..

Be honest Cornell is a second tier Ivy school and really not
Much better than most Big Ten schools. I know plenty of finance guys that prefer athletes as they understand how to work and grind and can deal with people.

Uh, no. The only two BiG schools that can compete with Cornell on a macro level are Northwestern and Michigan. Heck, its newest member, Nebraska's claim to fame is getting kicked out of the 'academically prestigious' American Association of Universities.

[blue angels]

Maryland isn’t mediocre, academically.

It is.

FWIW UMD is #59 in US News poll, tied with Pitt and U of Wash. JHU is #9 tied with Duke, Cal Tech and Northwestern.

Not to dump on your narrative about how elite a school is mattering, but about every 3-4 months I read a story about how employers particularly in finance prefer athletes over other students. Obviously the school has some impact, but would you rather have a maryland lacrosse player or some kid who participated in study abroad at cornell and didn't do much else other than maybe volunteer w/some at risk kids?

This guy has research that said things are going other direction though I guess.
https://www.efinancialcareers.com/news/ ... iety-jocks

This ridiculous comparison of taking the lax player from Maryland over the Cornell Grad with not a lot of accolades seems completely mindless……Depends on the job…….. and on the required finance skills of the prospective employee….. Cornell is no doubt a more elite academic school, but there are certainly some smart kids on the Maryland lacrosse team who would match up well with the average Cornell student intellectually but not all of them …..

Be honest Cornell is a second tier Ivy school and really not
Much better than most Big Ten schools. I know plenty of finance guys that prefer athletes as they understand how to work and grind and can deal with people.

If someone has the inclination, perhaps, they can dig up the average starting salary for a Cornell Grad and maybe you can find it for Maryland or even better, Maryland lacrosse. That would tell us something. Doubt it's close...... I have no dog in this fight, but you apparently do.

[MDlaxfan76]

Maryland isn’t mediocre, academically.

It is.

FWIW UMD is #59 in US News poll, tied with Pitt and U of Wash. JHU is #9 tied with Duke, Cal Tech and Northwestern.

Not to dump on your narrative about how elite a school is mattering, but about every 3-4 months I read a story about how employers particularly in finance prefer athletes over other students. Obviously the school has some impact, but would you rather have a maryland lacrosse player or some kid who participated in study abroad at cornell and didn't do much else other than maybe volunteer w/some at risk kids?

This guy has research that said things are going other direction though I guess.
https://www.efinancialcareers.com/news/ ... iety-jocks

This ridiculous comparison of taking the lax player from Maryland over the Cornell Grad with not a lot of accolades seems completely mindless……Depends on the job…….. and on the required finance skills of the prospective employee….. Cornell is no doubt a more elite academic school, but there are certainly some smart kids on the Maryland lacrosse team who would match up well with the average Cornell student intellectually but not all of them …..

Be honest Cornell is a second tier Ivy school and really not
Much better than most Big Ten schools. I know plenty of finance guys that prefer athletes as they understand how to work and grind and can deal with people.

If someone has the inclination, perhaps, they can dig up the average starting salary for a Cornell Grad and maybe you can find it for Maryland or even better, Maryland lacrosse. That would tell us something. Doubt it's close...... I have no dog in this fight, but you apparently do.

Just for giggles, I took a look, and it's not a close comparison.

For instance, if we compare salaries for Econ grads, a common major for many lax players, UMD avg. starting salary is $50,510, whereas Cornell is $76,460.

I also looked to see how many majors at each school had greater than $70k starting salaries, UMD had 4 with the top most being computer and Informations Sciences at $84k; Cornell had 14 majors above $70k, 5 of which over $80k, with the top being Computer Science at $129k.

https://www.gradreports.com/rankings/un ... llege-park

https://www.gradreports.com/rankings/cornell-university

Also took a look at Harvard and Dartmouth, each of which has fewer overall majors, but which overall score higher in most categories than Cornell, though the difference is far less pronounced than the UMD v Cornell comparison. For instance Dartmouth's Econ major average is $85,540 and Harvard's is $81,330, but Dartmouth's Comp Sci is $117k and HU's is $142K.

[MoralTerpitude]

If you look at majors from Cornell's endowed (i.e. private) schools - Engineering, Architecture, Arts & Sciences, and Hotel Administration, I'm sure those majors will all be competitive with the rest of the Ivies. If you look at the state schools - Agriculture & Life Science, Human Ecology, and Industrial and Labor Relations, then they will be lower overall. Comp Sci, for example was in both Engineering and A&S when I attended.

[1766]

Back to the topic of the thread, which doesn't involve Cornell or their academics.

Things are starting to shake out with the transfer market. I know there are a few guys left that Rutgers is trying to get but I think we are close to having fully formed rosters now. Based on this, my way early picks.

1) Maryland. They lost more talent than anyone. They also have more talent than anyone. No reason not to pick them number 1 until there is one. Someone has to take the crown.
2) Rutgers. They too lost a lot, but there is talent in the wings and productive transfers that will fill needs. Much of the offense returns and getting a healthy David Sprock back will help solidify any midfield losses.
3) Penn St. Their young guys lost some close ones last year and that often means a step up the following. There is talent in that program.
4) Ohio St. Solid core returning but is it enough? Meyers seems to often push the right buttons to have them steal one or two regular season games so wouldn't be shocked if that continues.
5) Hopkins. Their D seems solid, not sure of their goalie situation. A couple of nice pieces on offense but is that enough? Some nice recruits coming in but you never want to count on them as freshmen. Will they be more athletic in the middle of the field to compete with others that are?
6) Michigan. They just seem to not be able to get out of their own way. Always close, but just never get there. Hopefully their staff learned their lesson from last season. Scheduling was atrocious and really hurt them.

[LongIslandLacks]

Back to the topic of the thread, which doesn't involve Cornell or their academics.

Things are starting to shake out with the transfer market. I know there are a few guys left that Rutgers is trying to get but I think we are close to having fully formed rosters now. Based on this, my way early picks.

1) Maryland. They lost more talent than anyone. They also have more talent than anyone. No reason not to pick them number 1 until there is one. Someone has to take the crown.
2) Rutgers. They too lost a lot, but there is talent in the wings and productive transfers that will fill needs. Much of the offense returns and getting a healthy David Sprock back will help solidify any midfield losses.
3) Penn St. Their young guys lost some close ones last year and that often means a step up the following. There is talent in that program.
4) Ohio St. Solid core returning but is it enough? Meyers seems to often push the right buttons to have them steal one or two regular season games so wouldn't be shocked if that continues.
5) Hopkins. Their D seems solid, not sure of their goalie situation. A couple of nice pieces on offense but is that enough? Some nice recruits coming in but you never want to count on them as freshmen. Will they be more athletic in the middle of the field to compete with others that are?
6) Michigan. They just seem to not be able to get out of their own way. Always close, but just never get there. Hopefully their staff learned their lesson from last season. Scheduling was atrocious and really hurt them.

Predicting—

1/. Maryland
2/. Ohio State
3/. Rutgers
4/. Penn State
5/. Tie — Hopkins and Michigan.

The order from 2-5 is a function of coaching. I don’t see much difference in talent once you get past Maryland.

[1766]

Massive changes coming to the college sports world assuming this happens. Wouldn't be shocked to see a couple of Acc teams jump in the fray, specifically Uva and Unc.

https://trojanswire.usatoday.com/2022/0 ... y-as-2024/

[Wheels]

Massive changes coming to the college sports world assuming this happens. Wouldn't be shocked to see a couple of Acc teams jump in the fray, specifically Uva and Unc.

https://trojanswire.usatoday.com/2022/0 ... y-as-2024/

The Grant of Rights that all ACC teams signed after Maryland left will make leaving the ACC really hard. The only ACC university that the B1G would probably want would be GT, and that's because the ATL market is a Top 10 TV market. Getting carriage fees for the BTN into that market would be lucrative. Then I'd guess they'd want either Cal or Stanford to get the SFO market.

Landing ND would weaken the ACC even further, and I don't think ND had to sign any grant of rights deal when they affiliated with the ACC.

[1766]

Massive changes coming to the college sports world assuming this happens. Wouldn't be shocked to see a couple of Acc teams jump in the fray, specifically Uva and Unc.

https://trojanswire.usatoday.com/2022/0 ... y-as-2024/

The Grant of Rights that all ACC teams signed after Maryland left will make leaving the ACC really hard. The only ACC university that the B1G would probably want would be GT, and that's because the ATL market is a Top 10 TV market. Getting carriage fees for the BTN into that market would be lucrative. Then I'd guess they'd want either Cal or Stanford to get the SFO market.

Landing ND would weaken the ACC even further, and I don't think ND had to sign any grant of rights deal when they affiliated with the ACC.

The Big 12 has a GOR too. It's not going to stop teams from leaving. Especially if there aren't a lot of teams left.

Uva and Unc would grab more market share than GT. Cal is interesting to consider as they are tightly aligned with UCLA. You'd have to think there is some political horse trading going on behind the scenes. It's going to be interesting to watch how it shakes out. A number of options for 4 spots.

Notre Dame seems to be all out of options at this point. They don't have their crown jewel in the Acc so I'm not sure how much damage them leaving with their other sports would really do.

[DocBarrister]

Massive changes coming to the college sports world assuming this happens. Wouldn't be shocked to see a couple of Acc teams jump in the fray, specifically Uva and Unc.

https://trojanswire.usatoday.com/2022/0 ... y-as-2024/

The Grant of Rights that all ACC teams signed after Maryland left will make leaving the ACC really hard. The only ACC university that the B1G would probably want would be GT, and that's because the ATL market is a Top 10 TV market. Getting carriage fees for the BTN into that market would be lucrative. Then I'd guess they'd want either Cal or Stanford to get the SFO market.

Landing ND would weaken the ACC even further, and I don't think ND had to sign any grant of rights deal when they affiliated with the ACC.

The Big 12 has a GOR too. It's not going to stop teams from leaving. Especially if there aren't a lot of teams left.

Uva and Unc would grab more market share than GT. Cal is interesting to consider as they are tightly aligned with UCLA. You'd have to think there is some political horse trading going on behind the scenes. It's going to be interesting to watch how it shakes out. A number of options for 4 spots.

Notre Dame seems to be all out of options at this point. They don't have their crown jewel in the Acc so I'm not sure how much damage them leaving with their other sports would really do.

Notre Dame is the one school just about every conference wants. Truly national fan base unlike that of any other school in the nation. B1G and ACC have been trying for years to get them on board. The SEC would accept Notre Dame in a second. The Fighting Irish have some decisions to make soon. I think they foresee the end of their independent status in football. Hard to see them going anywhere but the B1G now that most of their traditional rivals are headed there.

DocBarrister

[jhu06]

https://theathletic.com/live-blogs/ucla ... CqGsO4fzN/

athletic is doing a nice job there of tracking all the rumors, tweets, comments, stories etc with this. Really nice work. I haven't seen any conversation or mention of lacrosse which is to be expected when neither school fields a d1 mens team and only usc has a d1 womens team.

This usc thing obviously means different things for Hopkins and the 5 programs who are not us. Sounds like the rest of the conference is going to get a lot richer, but travel costs are going up a lot as well. For Hopkins womens lacrosse that la flight every other year is not going to be cheap.

[jrn19]

I wonder if as the league further expands (perhaps more West teams, ND) if they split it up into two different mini leagues almost; where USC and UCLA are mostly just traveling to the Nebraska’s and Iowa’s and ND’s and not going all the way out East to Maryland or Rutgers.

For lacrosse, Big Ten now has 8 women’s lacrosse teams. Maybe do fewer Conference games and so not everyone has to make the long LA flight? It’s going to be very complicated but I’m not sure how many years we play, if any, where it’s just USC and UCLA and not other teams as well fundamentally changing the way all this works

[44WeWantMore]

[Wheels]

I wonder if as the league further expands (perhaps more West teams, ND) if they split it up into two different mini leagues almost; where USC and UCLA are mostly just traveling to the Nebraska’s and Iowa’s and ND’s and not going all the way out East to Maryland or Rutgers.

For lacrosse, Big Ten now has 8 women’s lacrosse teams. Maybe do fewer Conference games and so not everyone has to make the long LA flight? It’s going to be very complicated but I’m not sure how many years we play, if any, where it’s just USC and UCLA and not other teams as well fundamentally changing the way all this works

Before this news broke, all of the scuttle around B1G scheduling was that the league was ditching the divisions for football to go to something like the SEC and ACC announced. 3-team pods of permanent, yearly opponents and then rotating the remaining opponents. We know now that those scheduling discussions - along with TV negotiations - were happening as UCLA and USC were talking with the B1G. So I'd guess that there won't be east-west divisions. They'll probably schedule women's lacrosse the way they schedule basketball and sports like volleyball. Teams will cluster schedule so that when teams travel, they'll play 2 games while on the road before flying home. If they follow that kind of scheduling, expect a lot of Sat/Tues or Thurs/Sat kinds of set ups once conference play begins.

[jhu06]

that's womens lacrosse where there is an LA component.

I think this usc/ucla thing is a major boon for the big ten conference although a lot more for the Hopkins rivals than hopkins because of the $ and broader big ten exposure. If I'm a Rutgers fan right now I have to feel fantastic about not just where the lacrosse program is right now but that it got a coveted ticket to the big ten a decade ago. Maryland too.