Princeton versus Maryland

[PulpExposure]

The first game Maryland shot 30% which is a bad day for them and Princeton shot 43% which wasn't enough to keep it close. Maryland was better at the x but Princeton got a better day from their goalie. I didn't catch the game but what I'm seeing is one that wasn't even as close as the 5 goal margin. I feel like the most likely scenario is a Maryland win by more than the first matchup.

5 goals was the largest lead they had the entire game. it was 3-5 goals the entire 2nd half and 3 with 7 minutes remaining.

p'ton will likely be bringing more than their 3rd string fogo coming off covid protocol to the game. my guess wierman still has the advantage but possible the tigers can win some more. hopefully p'ton brings their best game.

The big thing for me is they got outshot 50-23 the first time. To keep it close with that is a minor miracle. Maryland has won games by 8 with fairly narrow edges in shots comparatively. So if Princeton wants to have any shot they almost certainly have to do better there. FOs might help but it won't solve it all. I don't think relying on outshooting them is a great idea.

fair enough. moving forward that doesn't look like a formula. my post was more confusion on how the past game wasn't as close as indicated.

though... it is possible that given the prior result and your stat... that p'ton for one day found a formula for success in one aspect -- being able to give up the shots that they wanted and ones their goalie could handle. maybe.

maryland will get their 40 plus shots. princeton will need to find a way to get more than 23.

I keep toggling between close and not close.

How did DeMaio take 8 shots but can none in the previous tilt between these two? Khan 0 for 4.

Both guys were just cold at the beginning of the season. Demaio clearly is not. Entering the Princeton game, Demaio had played in the prior 3 games and had 4 goals and 3 assists. And with some of the lowest shooting percentages of his career. In his past 3 games, he has 10 goals and 6 assists, and is shooting better than he has this whole season. Khan went ice cold the game before Princeton (Syracuse, 1 assist), then got zeroed by Princeton and then by Notre Dame, and then had 2 assists v Albany before blowing up against Virginia. We all thought he had an injury during that 4 game stretch (Cuse, Princeton, ND, Albany). Heck he didn't even take a shot against Albany. Those are the only games he didn't have a goal, but he has been a lot more active since...

[Typical Lax Dad]

Not sure why Princeton will even bother to make the trip up. The first game was obviously a fluke. We all know the best team always wins. Maybe Cornell and Princeton should just play a consolation game while Rutgers and Maryland rest up until Monday…..I heard Carc say that NFL playoffs get a week off so college lacrosse should also. NCAA basketball guys are considering it and Maryland vs Rutgers on Monday would be a step in the right direction. NBA may announce that all finals elimination games will be spaced a week apart. Not sure why they hadn’t thought of that.

[Peter Brown]

The first game Maryland shot 30% which is a bad day for them and Princeton shot 43% which wasn't enough to keep it close. Maryland was better at the x but Princeton got a better day from their goalie. I didn't catch the game but what I'm seeing is one that wasn't even as close as the 5 goal margin. I feel like the most likely scenario is a Maryland win by more than the first matchup.

5 goals was the largest lead they had the entire game. it was 3-5 goals the entire 2nd half and 3 with 7 minutes remaining.

p'ton will likely be bringing more than their 3rd string fogo coming off covid protocol to the game. my guess wierman still has the advantage but possible the tigers can win some more. hopefully p'ton brings their best game.

The big thing for me is they got outshot 50-23 the first time. To keep it close with that is a minor miracle. Maryland has won games by 8 with fairly narrow edges in shots comparatively. So if Princeton wants to have any shot they almost certainly have to do better there. FOs might help but it won't solve it all. I don't think relying on outshooting them is a great idea.

fair enough. moving forward that doesn't look like a formula. my post was more confusion on how the past game wasn't as close as indicated.

though... it is possible that given the prior result and your stat... that p'ton for one day found a formula for success in one aspect -- being able to give up the shots that they wanted and ones their goalie could handle. maybe.

maryland will get their 40 plus shots. princeton will need to find a way to get more than 23.

I keep toggling between close and not close.

How did DeMaio take 8 shots but can none in the previous tilt between these two? Khan 0 for 4.

Both guys were just cold at the beginning of the season. Demaio clearly is not. Entering the Princeton game, Demaio had played in the prior 3 games and had 4 goals and 3 assists. And with some of the lowest shooting percentages of his career. In his past 3 games, he has 10 goals and 6 assists, and is shooting better than he has this whole season. Khan went ice cold the game before Princeton (Syracuse, 1 assist), then got zeroed by Princeton and then by Notre Dame, and then had 2 assists v Albany before blowing up against Virginia. We all thought he had an injury during that 4 game stretch (Cuse, Princeton, ND, Albany). Heck he didn't even take a shot against Albany. Those are the only games he didn't have a goal, but he has been a lot more active since...

Thanks. In the end I don’t think the first game really tells us much how this one goes. I think Weirman will again control the face offs, against Sandoval or Vera or Ginder. I bet Princeton starts with Sandoval but ultimately goes with Ginder on Saturday. Yale dominated face offs until Ginder finally got the nod.

I’m betting Maryland shoots much better this outing than they did on March 21. The goalie Peter’s is the wild card. Two good outings after two atrocious ones.

I think this game will be tight.

[nms]

Not sure why Princeton will even bother to make the trip up. The first game was obviously a fluke. We all know the best team always wins. Maybe Cornell and Princeton should just play a consolation game while Rutgers and Maryland rest up until Monday…..I heard Carc say that NFL playoffs get a week off so college lacrosse should also. NCAA basketball guys are considering it and Maryland vs Rutgers on Monday would be a step in the right direction. NBA may announce that all finals elimination games will be spaced a week apart. Not sure why they hadn’t thought of that.

I don't know why you are even suggesting this since the second best team in the country, as proven by their close loss to Md, was not even in the tournament. The entire tournament should be scrapped and Md and ND declared joint champions.

[youthathletics]

Some fun game planning, I believe Princeton has what it takes.

Princeton comes out locking man(on ball) and each adjacent, while the other 3 are in skip lanes in a triangle formation on crease (showing two men to the ball side at all times). If on-ball man gets beat, the slide is nearest man of the triangle. The beat defender then recovers to the front of the triangle (could set a trap), or simply bump the 2nd slide guy back down to the backside.

The goal is to force UMD to not move the ball so quickly and at their pace. If the D can stress the ball carrier (not play such soft cover defense) to the point where the ball carrier has to beat you or throw a lob skip pass, you can then begin to dictate their pace in settled O. Otherwise it has been clear that Zone and traditional defensive schematics are futile IF you still allow them to freely pass the ball at will.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Not sure why Princeton will even bother to make the trip up. The first game was obviously a fluke. We all know the best team always wins. Maybe Cornell and Princeton should just play a consolation game while Rutgers and Maryland rest up until Monday…..I heard Carc say that NFL playoffs get a week off so college lacrosse should also. NCAA basketball guys are considering it and Maryland vs Rutgers on Monday would be a step in the right direction. NBA may announce that all finals elimination games will be spaced a week apart. Not sure why they hadn’t thought of that.

I don't know why you are even suggesting this since the second best team in the country, as proven by their close loss to Md, was not even in the tournament. The entire tournament should be scrapped and Md and ND declared joint champions.

Co-Champions

[CU77]

No, no, ND played Md so close that ND deserves to be sole champion.

[10stone5]

No, no, ND played Md so close that ND deserves to be sole champion.

[MDlaxfan76]

No, no, ND played Md so close that ND deserves to be sole champion.

well, I think my alma mater, Dartmouth, should be given an auto-bid for at least the quarters, given they only lost by one to Cornell and by two to Princeton. Let's be fair...

[CU77]

Yes, absolutely, Dartmouth should be Ivy co-champ along with the other six.

Well seven because why should Columbia be penalized for not fielding a team?

[nms]

Anyone think this dazzling display of hyperbole will stop the ND/Duke whining?

[Gobigred]

Anyone think this dazzling display of hyperbole will stop the ND/Duke whining?

Only a nuke.

[laxfan1313]

If you listened to Quint's pod with Petro last week, Petro laid out the defensive "pick your poison" scheme for defending Maryland. Anyone who went to or watched the Cuse-MD game saw this in action, and Princeton followed the same blueprint the next week against MD. Petro sent his two best cover guys to Malever and Khan and was slow to slide to support those match-ups. You could see the crease defender hedging at times to make it seem like he would slide. It forced Maryland to go to its invert game early in the game.

Syracuse ultimately didn't have the horses to pull it off, but Princeton does have the horses. At least in its top 6 defensively.

They sent Baughan to Khan and Finlay to Malever. They dared those two to win the one-on-one match ups. Billings tried to use his size to hang on to Wisnauskas. Princeton also played that game with its third-strong FOGO, who didn't even arrive in College Park until an hour or so before the game because he had to pass a COVID test. Their other two FOGOs didn't play. Wierman ended up with 2 goals that game.

Princeton's depth is pretty thin. That's the concern for the Tigers. For every Stevens or English on Princeton, you have at least 2 Terps that do the same exact thing. Baughan and Finley are top cover defensemen, as are Makar and Zappitello. Pederson is a great shorty, but MD has 4 of them. So who from outside of Princeton's top 6 can make a difference? Because Maryland has a few that can, including its rope unit in transition.

Like the first match up, which also happened on just 6 days rest for the Terps after a big "road" game the week before, Princeton has the athletes and skill to make this a very good game. The question is whether they have the depth to pull it off. And Peters will need to have another 19 save performance like he did in College Park to keep Princeton in the game. The Terps put up 50 shots against UVA. Princeton will be in a lot of trouble if Maryland is putting up 50 shots.

Was that 4-10 Petro?

[Wheels]

If you listened to Quint's pod with Petro last week, Petro laid out the defensive "pick your poison" scheme for defending Maryland. Anyone who went to or watched the Cuse-MD game saw this in action, and Princeton followed the same blueprint the next week against MD. Petro sent his two best cover guys to Malever and Khan and was slow to slide to support those match-ups. You could see the crease defender hedging at times to make it seem like he would slide. It forced Maryland to go to its invert game early in the game.

Syracuse ultimately didn't have the horses to pull it off, but Princeton does have the horses. At least in its top 6 defensively.

They sent Baughan to Khan and Finlay to Malever. They dared those two to win the one-on-one match ups. Billings tried to use his size to hang on to Wisnauskas. Princeton also played that game with its third-strong FOGO, who didn't even arrive in College Park until an hour or so before the game because he had to pass a COVID test. Their other two FOGOs didn't play. Wierman ended up with 2 goals that game.

Princeton's depth is pretty thin. That's the concern for the Tigers. For every Stevens or English on Princeton, you have at least 2 Terps that do the same exact thing. Baughan and Finley are top cover defensemen, as are Makar and Zappitello. Pederson is a great shorty, but MD has 4 of them. So who from outside of Princeton's top 6 can make a difference? Because Maryland has a few that can, including its rope unit in transition.

Like the first match up, which also happened on just 6 days rest for the Terps after a big "road" game the week before, Princeton has the athletes and skill to make this a very good game. The question is whether they have the depth to pull it off. And Peters will need to have another 19 save performance like he did in College Park to keep Princeton in the game. The Terps put up 50 shots against UVA. Princeton will be in a lot of trouble if Maryland is putting up 50 shots.

Was that 4-10 Petro?

Hey everyone...look! Laxfan1313 knows more about lacrosse defense than the assistant coach of the 4-10 Syracuse Orangemen!

[CU77]

Certainly seems plausible to me ...

[MoralTerpitude]

Some fun game planning, I believe Princeton has what it takes.

Princeton comes out locking man(on ball) and each adjacent, while the other 3 are in skip lanes in a triangle formation on crease (showing two men to the ball side at all times). If on-ball man gets beat, the slide is nearest man of the triangle. The beat defender then recovers to the front of the triangle (could set a trap), or simply bump the 2nd slide guy back down to the backside.

The goal is to force UMD to not move the ball so quickly and at their pace. If the D can stress the ball carrier (not play such soft cover defense) to the point where the ball carrier has to beat you or throw a lob skip pass, you can then begin to dictate their pace in settled O. Otherwise it has been clear that Zone and traditional defensive schematics are futile IF you still allow them to freely pass the ball at will.

Princeton will be the fourth team that Maryland plays for a second time this year, after Rutgers, Hopkins, and Virginia. The trend of having a tougher time beating a team the second time has not held for Maryland. The stats from that first game would have indicated a Maryland blowout - 34 to 18 shots on goal, 12 to 17 TO’s, 42 to 22 groundballs, 20 to 9 faceoffs. Peters’s heroics in goal kept it relatively close.

As to FOGO, Sandoval is at 53% for the year. I think the problem the three other Final Four teams face is that none of them are particularly strong at the faceoff dot. If the possession numbers tilt the field in Maryland’s favor, it is really tough to keep it competitive with them.

[Mr3Putt]

Sandavol - fogo ( Princeton)did not ply in the first contest. Peters the goalie was 56% giving up 15 goals ( vs Maryland) . If you have any sniff vs Maryland you need to have superb goaltending and be close to 50% at the X. Princeton went 9-29 at the X earlier in the season. I think Princeton has a chance to hang around because of goaltending. Nunes for Va is just not there yet. He was 29% at some point during the Md game yesterday. Plus all the other things Princeton can do. It benefits them they played Maryland earlier in the season . Yes, so did Virginia. But, Va just had zero mojo coming into yesterdays game.

[youthathletics]

Some fun game planning, I believe Princeton has what it takes.

Princeton comes out locking man(on ball) and each adjacent, while the other 3 are in skip lanes in a triangle formation on crease (showing two men to the ball side at all times). If on-ball man gets beat, the slide is nearest man of the triangle. The beat defender then recovers to the front of the triangle (could set a trap), or simply bump the 2nd slide guy back down to the backside.

The goal is to force UMD to not move the ball so quickly and at their pace. If the D can stress the ball carrier (not play such soft cover defense) to the point where the ball carrier has to beat you or throw a lob skip pass, you can then begin to dictate their pace in settled O. Otherwise it has been clear that Zone and traditional defensive schematics are futile IF you still allow them to freely pass the ball at will.

Princeton will be the fourth team that Maryland plays for a second time this year, after Rutgers, Hopkins, and Virginia. The trend of having a tougher time beating a team the second time has not held for Maryland. The stats from that first game would have indicated a Maryland blowout - 34 to 18 shots on goal, 12 to 17 TO’s, 42 to 22 groundballs, 20 to 9 faceoffs. Peters’s heroics in goal kept it relatively close.

As to FOGO, Sandoval is at 53% for the year. I think the problem the three other Final Four teams face is that none of them are particularly strong at the faceoff dot. If the possession numbers tilt the field in Maryland’s favor, it is really tough to keep it competitive with them.

And the defense I suggest, has also not been tried. Most teams have stuck with their bread and better defenses, with only some match assignments. You can not, and UMD has proven this, run a conventional defense against an offense that has no identifiable structure. The least common denominator is to thwart their ball movement as best you can. UVA tried zone to keep them from flowing all-around, while eliminating matchup issues.....and the result was....more ball movement and just Zone offense 101.

As you noted, and what I hate about our game, the FO player can be a deciding factor in playing make it take (not a fan at all, makes the game boring IMO). Princeton either has to go unconventional defense or beat them between the lines; a combination of the two. Or hope the Terps goalie is having a 'really=really' bad day.

[44WeWantMore]

If you listened to Quint's pod with Petro last week, Petro laid out the defensive "pick your poison" scheme for defending Maryland. Anyone who went to or watched the Cuse-MD game saw this in action, and Princeton followed the same blueprint the next week against MD. Petro sent his two best cover guys to Malever and Khan and was slow to slide to support those match-ups. You could see the crease defender hedging at times to make it seem like he would slide. It forced Maryland to go to its invert game early in the game.

Syracuse ultimately didn't have the horses to pull it off, but Princeton does have the horses. At least in its top 6 defensively.

They sent Baughan to Khan and Finlay to Malever. They dared those two to win the one-on-one match ups. Billings tried to use his size to hang on to Wisnauskas. Princeton also played that game with its third-strong FOGO, who didn't even arrive in College Park until an hour or so before the game because he had to pass a COVID test. Their other two FOGOs didn't play. Wierman ended up with 2 goals that game.

Princeton's depth is pretty thin. That's the concern for the Tigers. For every Stevens or English on Princeton, you have at least 2 Terps that do the same exact thing. Baughan and Finley are top cover defensemen, as are Makar and Zappitello. Pederson is a great shorty, but MD has 4 of them. So who from outside of Princeton's top 6 can make a difference? Because Maryland has a few that can, including its rope unit in transition.

Like the first match up, which also happened on just 6 days rest for the Terps after a big "road" game the week before, Princeton has the athletes and skill to make this a very good game. The question is whether they have the depth to pull it off. And Peters will need to have another 19 save performance like he did in College Park to keep Princeton in the game. The Terps put up 50 shots against UVA. Princeton will be in a lot of trouble if Maryland is putting up 50 shots.

Was that 4-10 Petro?

Hey everyone...look! Laxfan1313 knows more about lacrosse defense than the assistant coach of the 4-10 Syracuse Orangemen!

Hey, come on over to our thread and join us. We *all* know more about defense than Petro. Just ask us.

[palaxoff]

Lets not forget Maryland's D side it is pretty damn good. With the Goal tending, Stong D, very efficient Clearing and Strength at the face off "X" Princeton will need to find ways to possess the ball, add Maryland's Offense holdingthe ball and the shot clock. I'd say Princeton have to have a perfect game and hope Maryland doesn't play well. I say Maryland just under their season average 7-8 goal margin.