B1G/Ivy > ACC

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MDlaxfan76
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Re: B1G/Ivy > ACC

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

Nope, any honest observer would say they didn't earn the right to make such claims.

Simple solution. Win, don't lose so many times.
stupefied
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Re: B1G/Ivy > ACC

Post by stupefied »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 11:17 am Nope, any honest observer would say they didn't earn the right to make such claims.

Simple solution. Win, don't lose so many times.
Another Maryland fan being dishonest with themselve. Go ask a Maryland player if you know one , I know several and they'd have no problem telling you ND was a top five team. Terps are excellent and seemed destined from season start to be at top of mountain but their fans were relieved to take the easier trail.
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: B1G/Ivy > ACC

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

stupefied wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 11:32 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 11:17 am Nope, any honest observer would say they didn't earn the right to make such claims.

Simple solution. Win, don't lose so many times.
Another Maryland fan being dishonest with themselve. Go ask a Maryland player if you know one , I know several and they'd have no problem telling you ND was a top five team. Terps are excellent and seemed destined from season start to be at top of mountain but their fans were relieved to take the easier trail.
I'm not a UMD fan, though you gotta be an idiot not to like the way this particular UMD team plays. Great assets, great chemistry.

I grew up a UVA fan, recruited by UVA, but went Ivy (dad was on 1st NC team @UVA), Hopkins was my local favorite (jumped the fence many times), and, so, Maryland was the common enemy.

I'd have given ND the nod over my son's alma mater, as would he, but Notre Dame simply didn't earn it outright. Nor did Duke. But yeah, both were "top five"...in the ACC. ;)

It really is simple, you gotta win more OOC games, not lose them. Same for the teams you do beat.

But hey, if you asked me preseason which teams, or even now 'on paper' (roster talent), I'd have guessed might be in the Top 5, sure, Duke...ND maybe too...but preseason and "on paper" don't make a season.

Come back next year and do better.
1766
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Re: B1G/Ivy > ACC

Post by 1766 »

stupefied wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 11:32 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 11:17 am Nope, any honest observer would say they didn't earn the right to make such claims.

Simple solution. Win, don't lose so many times.
Another Maryland fan being dishonest with themselve. Go ask a Maryland player if you know one , I know several and they'd have no problem telling you ND was a top five team. Terps are excellent and seemed destined from season start to be at top of mountain but their fans were relieved to take the easier trail.
Top 5 teams beat teams ranked in the top 10. ND went 0-4 against tournament teams. They have no gripe. They didn't get it done where it mattered. On the field.
wgdsr
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Re: B1G/Ivy > ACC

Post by wgdsr »

tld, you're missing the do better and win on the field opps.

the committee said top wins mattered (and bad losses). they said it came down to 6 teams for 4 spots.

- 3 of those 6 teams had top 10 wins. 1 got in. of the 2 that didn't, one of them had no bad losses and not 1, but 2 top 10 wins.
- 3 of those 6 teams did not have a single top 10 win. all 3 got in. 1 was seeded, whose best wins were against #15. another one lost to a #20.

what people are freely admitting is that the committee can do whatever they want. and that "win more games" will be the retort for however they do it. threats from lax media aside, i see zero impetus for change coming, as we've been here for decades.
FannOLax
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Re: B1G/Ivy > ACC

Post by FannOLax »

...and then there's the fact the the ACC has only five teams, not enough for an AQ, so getting hot late and winning out doesn't grab an AQ by winning the conference tourney. In past years, it didn't matter because conference teams did well enough in OOC games. This year, they didn't, and it mattered.
jrn19
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Re: B1G/Ivy > ACC

Post by jrn19 »

stupefied wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 11:10 am
jrn19 wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 10:49 am
stupefied wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 10:31 am
masondixonlax wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 7:19 pm So much ACC hate after 1 down year haha. I think ACC will be okay, especially with the incoming recruits UVA, Cuse, and UNC have coming in. Think it is way to broad of a generalization to say all teams in a conference plays a certain style.
Congrats to Maryland for blowing out the third best team in ACC . Duke and ND would likely be facing each other for third time in FF if on other side of Maryland bracket . Duke wouldn't have beat Duke but a physical Irish team that had hit its stride would have given Maryland a game again, Princeton last hope as Rutgers and Cornell are several notches below Maryland
So now that they got blown out by MD (again), UVA is the 3rd best team in the ACC? Even though they beat ND and went 5-1 in the league? Whereas Duke went 3-3 and lost to an atrocious Cuse team? And ND lost to all the good teams they played this year?

There’s always an excuse. Just win your games

Ah Jake , been saying for several weeks that UVA was third best acc team . Same state as Duke last year and UNC this year , spotty play unworthy of lofty status despite fanciful record .

Did you not watch Duke totally dismantle UVA in the same fashion that Maryland did ?. ND and Duke were two very strong teams at season end . Ill leave the asterisk off upcoming Maryland's title because they are a superb team that very likely would win against anyone but any honest observer will admit that ND was screwed and a Maryland ND rematch would have been a most competitive game .
I did. I then watched Duke lose two games to Notre Dame including one where they couldn’t complete basic lacrosse skills in the 2H. Before the UVA game I watched them be Syracuse’s last win of the season.

I also watched ND lose to all the best teams they played.

So either the ACC was just full of mediocre teams, in which case being 1st or 3rd doesn’t matter; or UVA was the one that was most consistently at least good throughout the year and got destroyed by Maryland
Gobigred
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Re: B1G/Ivy > ACC

Post by Gobigred »

stupefied wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 11:32 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 11:17 am Nope, any honest observer would say they didn't earn the right to make such claims.

Simple solution. Win, don't lose so many times.
Another Maryland fan being dishonest with themselve. Go ask a Maryland player if you know one , I know several and they'd have no problem telling you ND was a top five team. Terps are excellent and seemed destined from season start to be at top of mountain but their fans were relieved to take the easier trail.
What you seem unable to understand is that Notre Dame's season record was not "top five," or even close. Doesn't matter how many blue-chippers a team has or what their untapped potential might be. What matters is how they performed during their season. The committee considers how teams performed, not what their potential might be. Carc doesn't get that, either, with his "eye test" baloney. Time to give it a rest.
Gatsby
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Re: B1G/Ivy > ACC

Post by Gatsby »

1) Notre Dame's season record was insufficient to qualify for the 2022 NCAA tournament. The teams that make up the tournament field are not the best teams. They are the teams that meet the selection criteria.

2) Notre Dame is a team that, IF they played again, had one of the best chances to knock off Maryland* based on the previous result, goalie play and defense, and bolstered by a shared thought that level of play had improved.

Both of the above can be simultaneously true (unless you wish to be selectively and willfully blind like masondixonlax because "no one cares" about the prior game result but apparently they do care about other factors that happen to support him).

ND's standing within its own league is not determinative of its chances against the top dog, as a bottomdwelling team could still be the team that has the best chance to knock off a powerhouse based on their style of play, personnel, or any number of factors.
masondixonlax
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Re: B1G/Ivy > ACC

Post by masondixonlax »

Gatsby wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 1:10 pm 1) Notre Dame's season record was insufficient to qualify for the 2022 NCAA tournament. The teams that make up the tournament field are not the best teams. They are the teams that meet the selection criteria.

2) Notre Dame is a team that, IF they played again, had one of the best chances to knock off Maryland* based on the previous result, goalie play and defense, and bolstered by a shared thought that level of play had improved.

Both of the above can be simultaneously true (unless you wish to be selectively and willfully blind like masondixonlax because "no one cares" about the prior game result but apparently they do care about other factors that happen to support him).

ND's standing within its own league is not determinative of its chances against the top dog, as a bottomdwelling team could still be the team that has the best chance to knock off a powerhouse based on their style of play, personnel, or any number of factors.

I think you’re missing what has been said 1000 times in these forums. No one is going to base ND chances of beating Maryland or to go far in the tournament because they played them to a two goal game in mid march. Ya know Cornell only beat Syracuse and Penn state by 1 goal so that automatically makes them incredible teams that would have the best shot at beating Cornell. Maybe we should just swap Rutgers for Syracuse or Penn state because they would have the best chance to knock off cornell!!!

People will base it off, ya know, their entire season and resume…. not one game you homer. They lost to every tournament team. Stop you’re crying, and yes, no one cares except the ND homers. Shoulda coulda woulda
Last edited by masondixonlax on Mon May 23, 2022 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
10stone5
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Re: B1G/Ivy > ACC

Post by 10stone5 »

Here is the full Notre Dame - Maryland game from March.

Nothing in that game which shows Notre Dame could have knocked off Maryland in this tournament or even kept it close, other than an early season game where Notre Dame kept the score close.

Gatsby
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Re: B1G/Ivy > ACC

Post by Gatsby »

masondixonlax wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 1:55 pm I think you’re missing what has been said 1000 times in these forums. No one is going to base ND chances of beating Maryland or to go far in the tournament because they played them to a two goal game in mid march.
So, because it was earlier in the season, we can discount this showing? I thought all the haters were arguing that ND's early season losses should count and are relevant. Can't have it both ways. I agree with the haters. Early season showings do count and THIS early season showing counts as well.
masondixonlax wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 1:55 pm Ya know Cornell only beat Syracuse and Penn state by 1 goal so that automatically makes them incredible teams that would have the best shot at beating Cornell. Maybe we should just swap Rutgers for Syracuse or Penn state because they would have the best chance to knock off cornell!!!
Agreed. If you were ask which team⁠—UVA (12-4) or Syracuse (4-10)⁠—could beat Duke again, the answer is Syracuse! Even though UVA had the better season record.
10stone5 wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 2:03 pm Here is the full Notre Dame - Maryland game from March.

Nothing in that game which shows Notre Dame could have knocked off Maryland in this tournament or even kept it close, other than an early season game where Notre Dame kept the score close.
I watched this game live. Again, the "early season doesn't matter" argument that haters both want to use (like now) but also reject (when bringing up ND's early losses). The early season counts as much as late in the season. Anyway, I see a one-goal game with less than 5 minutes to play in the 4th quarter. Was Testudo* sweating yet? You could make this same post again, writing: "Here is the full Notre Dame - Maryland game from March. Everything in that game shows Notre Dame could have knocked off Maryland in this tournament or kept it close."
Chousnake
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Re: B1G/Ivy > ACC

Post by Chousnake »

stupefied wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 11:32 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 11:17 am Nope, any honest observer would say they didn't earn the right to make such claims.

Simple solution. Win, don't lose so many times.
Another Maryland fan being dishonest with themselve. Go ask a Maryland player if you know one , I know several and they'd have no problem telling you ND was a top five team. Terps are excellent and seemed destined from season start to be at top of mountain but their fans were relieved to take the easier trail.
The ND handwringing just doesn't stop. Here we are, three weeks into the tournament and we just keep going round and round. You can't take the one game ND played vs Maryland and say that the 2 goal ND loss means ND 1) belonged in the tournament , 2) had the best chance to beat Maryland, or 3) was a top 5 team. ND lost to UVA and OSU, who both lost to Maryland by a larger margin than ND did. You can play the A beat B, B beat C, C beat D game and end up with an absurd result such as a bottom 10 team looking like a top 5 team. ND did not earn their way into the tournament by beating OOC teams. End of story. Any other discussion about them being able to win games had they been selected is pure speculation. Maybe you and other ND fans can play your own sim tournament just like some fans did in 2020. Otherwise, it's over. ND is out. They will always be out. They have no chance to beat anybody and nobody knows if they would have or would not have, any more than if Army or Jacksonville or (any other D1 team) would have won a game or two if they had received a bid.

See you in February 2023 when ND and all the other D1 schools have the chance to earn their way into the 2023 tourney by actually winning games.
nms
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Re: B1G/Ivy > ACC

Post by nms »

Chousnake wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 2:57 pm
stupefied wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 11:32 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 11:17 am Nope, any honest observer would say they didn't earn the right to make such claims.

Simple solution. Win, don't lose so many times.
Another Maryland fan being dishonest with themselve. Go ask a Maryland player if you know one , I know several and they'd have no problem telling you ND was a top five team. Terps are excellent and seemed destined from season start to be at top of mountain but their fans were relieved to take the easier trail.
The ND handwringing just doesn't stop. Here we are, three weeks into the tournament and we just keep going round and round. You can't take the one game ND played vs Maryland and say that the 2 goal ND loss means ND 1) belonged in the tournament , 2) had the best chance to beat Maryland, or 3) was a top 5 team.
Why not? Isn't that the best loss of any team all year...and isn't good losses the most important selection criteria?
laxfan1313
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Re: B1G/Ivy > ACC

Post by laxfan1313 »

stupefied wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 10:31 am
masondixonlax wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 7:19 pm So much ACC hate after 1 down year haha. I think ACC will be okay, especially with the incoming recruits UVA, Cuse, and UNC have coming in. Think it is way to broad of a generalization to say all teams in a conference plays a certain style.
Congrats to Maryland for blowing out the third best team in ACC . Duke and ND would likely be facing each other for third time in FF if on other side of Maryland bracket . Duke wouldn't have beat Duke but a physical Irish team that had hit its stride would have given Maryland a game again, Princeton last hope as Rutgers and Cornell are several notches below Maryland
On April 30th, Cornell dominated Princeton at Princeton. That was 24 days ago. If the Big Red can get by Rutgers, they'll be ready on Memorial Day.
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Dip&Dunk
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Re: B1G/Ivy > ACC

Post by Dip&Dunk »

nms wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 3:04 pm Why not? Isn't that the best loss of any team all year...and isn't good losses the most important selection criteria?
Yes, and ND had 4 quality losses. They were really good at losing to good teams.
1766
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Re: B1G/Ivy > ACC

Post by 1766 »

At this point, ND should play Duke and have the winner declared national champion.
Laxfan#1969
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Re: B1G/Ivy > ACC

Post by Laxfan#1969 »

1766 wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 3:24 pm At this point, ND should play Duke and have the winner declared national champion.
That’s actually a great idea! They can put it on the ACCN.

Two best conferences “this year” are represented in the final 4...that’s not debatable at this point

Maryland is a freak unicorn this year. People speculate that ND would give them a game...well I’ll speculate that MD would punk them by 8-10 right now. See, it’s easy to speculate about something that’s not gonna happen so it works both ways 😄

Maryland is so damn good. I don’t expect anything but them winning both games this weekend easily. But we will see...

Rutgers, Princeton, and Cornell...really really good teams having outstanding years and earning everything they have at this point...all three teams have been in that top 2-7 range all year and they are very good. Just not Maryland good...

Should be a fun final 4...it’s always a great event

Cheers
laxfan1313
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Re: B1G/Ivy > ACC

Post by laxfan1313 »

Merely pointing out the fact that this has been a down year for the ACC doesn't make a person an ACC "hater." One can state a fact without being a "hater."
wgdsr
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Re: B1G/Ivy > ACC

Post by wgdsr »

this thread is the good stuff.

started with the title B1G/Ivy > ACC

and with the post:
"Pretty simple analysis,
B1G = team lacrosse and tough tough defense
Ivy = strong youth contingent
ACC = hero ball, no chemistry and over rated teams"

and folks are still incredulous that someone out there might make nc$$ inclusion/competition takes and acc hater accusations in that same thread as a result. only on fanlax!!
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