Michigan 2023

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a fan
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Re: Michigan 2023

Post by a fan »

wgdsr wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 6:41 pm
a fan wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 4:25 pm
LongIslandLacks wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:56 pm That’s on the coach. He’s running the program. There have been and are some really fine players in Ann Arbor. The recruits aren’t that different from others in the league.
Fine players, sure. But you can say that about most D1 programs.

Name an elite player on UMich's roster.
LongIslandLacks wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:56 pm Frankly, they’ve had better classes than a number of their in league competition. The problem is when you have a staff that is significantly below others in the league, the decisions are … significantly below others in the league.
Unless I'm misunderstanding.........you think coaching, not players, is what gets teams to Final Fours.

So who's your "can't miss" list of D1 coaches that should be coaching at Michigan?
you are purposely asking each of these guys why it's coaching. knowing the answer you'll get is "they have better talent so it's coaching".

i have to say, i'm here for it.
:lol: Offseason, right?
Farfromgeneva
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Re: Michigan 2023

Post by Farfromgeneva »

a fan wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:09 pm
wgdsr wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 6:41 pm
a fan wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 4:25 pm
LongIslandLacks wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:56 pm That’s on the coach. He’s running the program. There have been and are some really fine players in Ann Arbor. The recruits aren’t that different from others in the league.
Fine players, sure. But you can say that about most D1 programs.

Name an elite player on UMich's roster.
LongIslandLacks wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:56 pm Frankly, they’ve had better classes than a number of their in league competition. The problem is when you have a staff that is significantly below others in the league, the decisions are … significantly below others in the league.
Unless I'm misunderstanding.........you think coaching, not players, is what gets teams to Final Fours.

So who's your "can't miss" list of D1 coaches that should be coaching at Michigan?
you are purposely asking each of these guys why it's coaching. knowing the answer you'll get is "they have better talent so it's coaching".

i have to say, i'm here for it.
:lol: Offseason, right?
Aint No Rest for the Wicked
Same sword they knight you they gon' good night you with
Thats' only half if they like you
That ain't even the half what they might do
Don't believe me, ask Michael
See Martin, Malcolm
See Jesus, Judas; Caesar, Brutus
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gymman1031
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Re: Michigan 2023

Post by gymman1031 »

As I posted on the new 2024 Recruiting Thread, Michigan has gotten the first 2024 commit since 09/01. He is long sticker Henry Weller of St. John's(DC). They won the high school national title. Coach Conry has really recruiting Washington, DC very well.
TOADHALL
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Re: Michigan 2023

Post by TOADHALL »

It seems the only thing the Michigan program is known best for is the "Blah, Blah Blah" about recruiting every year. Great academics, top notch facilities, super national recognition; IT'S TIME!
gymman1031
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Re: Michigan 2023

Post by gymman1031 »

TOADHALL wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 12:49 pm It seems the only thing the Michigan program is known best for is the "Blah, Blah Blah" about recruiting every year. Great academics, top notch facilities, super national recognition; IT'S TIME!

TOADHALL-That is EXACTLY what I have been saying over and over. With the recruiting that has been done, and them being MUCH more experienced and older this year, there are no excuses not to have better results.
Asgot
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Re: Michigan 2023

Post by Asgot »

I feel like at this level coaching does make a difference from the ability to judge talent and recruit talent to the ability to get them to buy into your teams system. By any means UM has been recruiting in the top half of the Big Ten and certainly better than a school like Rutgers but, Rutgers makes the final four and yes, transfers had a lot to do with that but bringing all those new kids in and getting them to play together is a big deal.

I think that this may be a big year for UM bring in the Bieda Bros. To help run the offense could certainly help as Bieda did a lot of good stuff in his time at Lafayette, however, at some point all of this recruiting success has to begin to translate into wins.
Stiffler
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Re: Michigan 2023

Post by Stiffler »

Agree with much of the sentiment above. Michigan consistently gets credit for recruiting the last 3-4 years, yet sits at the bottom of the conference and can't win a non-conference game against any formidable opponent. I don't know if its the players or Conry, but something has to give.

With UMD, Rutgers and OSU clearly ahead of them in conference, UM is as long of shot as any major conference team to make the NCAA tourney over the next 4 years, assuming no major coaching shake-up.
Asgot
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Re: Michigan 2023

Post by Asgot »

Stiffler wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 3:28 pm Agree with much of the sentiment above. Michigan consistently gets credit for recruiting the last 3-4 years, yet sits at the bottom of the conference and can't win a non-conference game against any formidable opponent. I don't know if its the players or Conry, but something has to give.

With UMD, Rutgers and OSU clearly ahead of them in conference, UM is as long of shot as any major conference team to make the NCAA tourney over the next 4 years, assuming no major coaching shake-up.
I might replace Rutgers with PSU on that list. Rutgers benefitted from excellent back to back portal classes and while they addressed some needs they feel woefully short of replacing the offense that left. While PSU has recruited well and went through growing pains last year with a very young team.

If Uam can not make hay this year it may be a time for a change
a fan
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Re: Michigan 2023

Post by a fan »

gymman1031 wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 1:52 pm
TOADHALL wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 12:49 pm It seems the only thing the Michigan program is known best for is the "Blah, Blah Blah" about recruiting every year. Great academics, top notch facilities, super national recognition; IT'S TIME!

TOADHALL-That is EXACTLY what I have been saying over and over. With the recruiting that has been done, and them being MUCH more experienced and older this year, there are no excuses not to have better results.
There's a great excuse: the other teams in the BIg Ten have had better players since UMich went D1.
lilax
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Re: Michigan 2023

Post by lilax »

a fan wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 5:37 pm
gymman1031 wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 1:52 pm
TOADHALL wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 12:49 pm It seems the only thing the Michigan program is known best for is the "Blah, Blah Blah" about recruiting every year. Great academics, top notch facilities, super national recognition; IT'S TIME!

TOADHALL-That is EXACTLY what I have been saying over and over. With the recruiting that has been done, and them being MUCH more experienced and older this year, there are no excuses not to have better results.
There's a great excuse: the other teams in the BIg Ten have had better players since UMich went D1.
That would make sense since every other team in the conference has made the final four in the last 7 years

JHU -2015
Ohio St -2017
Penn St.-2019
Rutgers-2022
Maryland-2022

No other conference has had 5 teams make the final four in that time.
10stone5
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Re: Michigan 2023

Post by 10stone5 »

lilax wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 8:57 pm
That would make sense since every other team in the conference has made the final four in the last 7 years

JHU -2015
Ohio St -2017
Penn St.-2019
Rutgers-2022
Maryland-2022

No other conference has had 5 teams make the final four in that time.
The question is,

which B1G team not named Maryland is next to make a final ?

They, the others, have their work cut out to make that milestone.
Farfromgeneva
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Re: Michigan 2023

Post by Farfromgeneva »

10stone5 wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 9:24 pm
lilax wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 8:57 pm
That would make sense since every other team in the conference has made the final four in the last 7 years

JHU -2015
Ohio St -2017
Penn St.-2019
Rutgers-2022
Maryland-2022

No other conference has had 5 teams make the final four in that time.
The question is,

which B1G team not named Maryland is next to make a final ?

They, the others, have their work cut out to make that milestone.
PSU in 24
Same sword they knight you they gon' good night you with
Thats' only half if they like you
That ain't even the half what they might do
Don't believe me, ask Michael
See Martin, Malcolm
See Jesus, Judas; Caesar, Brutus
See success is like suicide
gymman1031
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Re: Michigan 2023

Post by gymman1031 »

gymman1031 wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 12:06 pm As I posted on the new 2024 Recruiting Thread, Michigan has gotten the first 2024 commit since 09/01. He is long sticker Henry Weller of St. John's(DC). They won the high school national title. Coach Conry has really recruited Washington, DC very well.
gymman1031
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Re: Michigan 2023

Post by gymman1031 »

a fan wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 5:37 pm
gymman1031 wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 1:52 pm
TOADHALL wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 12:49 pm It seems the only thing the Michigan program is known best for is the "Blah, Blah Blah" about recruiting every year. Great academics, top notch facilities, super national recognition; IT'S TIME!

TOADHALL-That is EXACTLY what I have been saying over and over. With the recruiting that has been done, and them being MUCH more experienced and older this year, there are no excuses not to have better results.
There's a great excuse: the other teams in the BIg Ten have had better players since UMich went D1.
All together, yes they have. However, more than at least one season, Michigan had as much, if not more, talent than at least one other conference program. I will say over and over. Even if not this year, Conry needs to show he can take the next, even if small, steps very soon.
Farfromgeneva
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Re: Michigan 2023

Post by Farfromgeneva »

gymman1031 wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 5:22 am
a fan wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 5:37 pm
gymman1031 wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 1:52 pm
TOADHALL wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 12:49 pm It seems the only thing the Michigan program is known best for is the "Blah, Blah Blah" about recruiting every year. Great academics, top notch facilities, super national recognition; IT'S TIME!

TOADHALL-That is EXACTLY what I have been saying over and over. With the recruiting that has been done, and them being MUCH more experienced and older this year, there are no excuses not to have better results.
There's a great excuse: the other teams in the BIg Ten have had better players since UMich went D1.
All together, yes they have. However, more than at least one season, Michigan had as much, if not more, talent than at least one other conference program. I will say over and over. Even if not this year, Conry needs to show he can take the next, even if small, steps very soon.
You could be repeating that for another 25 years and have been stung this for five more more. It doesn’t even matter if Michigan want ever good because you’ve been long for so wrong that the whole clock strikes midnight twice rule applies.
Same sword they knight you they gon' good night you with
Thats' only half if they like you
That ain't even the half what they might do
Don't believe me, ask Michael
See Martin, Malcolm
See Jesus, Judas; Caesar, Brutus
See success is like suicide
Henpecked
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Re: Michigan 2023

Post by Henpecked »

a fan wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 5:37 pm
gymman1031 wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 1:52 pm
TOADHALL wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 12:49 pm It seems the only thing the Michigan program is known best for is the "Blah, Blah Blah" about recruiting every year. Great academics, top notch facilities, super national recognition; IT'S TIME!

TOADHALL-That is EXACTLY what I have been saying over and over. With the recruiting that has been done, and them being MUCH more experienced and older this year, there are no excuses not to have better results.
There's a great excuse: the other teams in the BIg Ten have had better players since UMich went D1.
This is revisionist history. There have been several recruiting classes at Michigan that have been rated higher than Rutgers, Penn State and Ohio State over the past 10 years. Complete nonsense.
Farfromgeneva
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Re: Michigan 2023

Post by Farfromgeneva »

Henpecked wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 5:03 pm
a fan wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 5:37 pm
gymman1031 wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 1:52 pm
TOADHALL wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 12:49 pm It seems the only thing the Michigan program is known best for is the "Blah, Blah Blah" about recruiting every year. Great academics, top notch facilities, super national recognition; IT'S TIME!

TOADHALL-That is EXACTLY what I have been saying over and over. With the recruiting that has been done, and them being MUCH more experienced and older this year, there are no excuses not to have better results.
There's a great excuse: the other teams in the BIg Ten have had better players since UMich went D1.
This is revisionist history. There have been several recruiting classes at Michigan that have been rated higher than Rutgers, Penn State and Ohio State over the past 10 years. Complete nonsense.
Rated does not equal actual in the execution. That’s what the folks who are trying to moderate the craziness are saying. There’s a problem where folks anchor their condition precedent that because IL deemed the classes dope therefor they are. If you removed that from the thinking and that you can’t know until they hit D1 college, especially higher levels of it, then the argument that coaching is an issue disappears like that.

To me I keep saying it’s the same trap. There’s always 1-2 schools that get sexy overrated IL kids in bunches. The school and/or program is currently hot, usually a. Cool younger “relatable” coach and some momentum. If you loaded up in IMG kids you have a problem. Certain HS are always kids who come with soemthing but cultural challenges, some HS that happens over time-see Victor as success bred issues (or Hobart at the tail end of their D3 dominance). To me Michigan has been that for most of its D1 existence
Same sword they knight you they gon' good night you with
Thats' only half if they like you
That ain't even the half what they might do
Don't believe me, ask Michael
See Martin, Malcolm
See Jesus, Judas; Caesar, Brutus
See success is like suicide
a fan
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Re: Michigan 2023

Post by a fan »

Henpecked wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 5:03 pm
a fan wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 5:37 pm
gymman1031 wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 1:52 pm
TOADHALL wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 12:49 pm It seems the only thing the Michigan program is known best for is the "Blah, Blah Blah" about recruiting every year. Great academics, top notch facilities, super national recognition; IT'S TIME!

TOADHALL-That is EXACTLY what I have been saying over and over. With the recruiting that has been done, and them being MUCH more experienced and older this year, there are no excuses not to have better results.
There's a great excuse: the other teams in the BIg Ten have had better players since UMich went D1.
This is revisionist history. There have been several recruiting classes at Michigan that have been rated higher than Rutgers, Penn State and Ohio State over the past 10 years. Complete nonsense.
Revisionist history? I'm not talking about predictions about a bunch of HS players from some magazine.

I'm talking about the fact that UMich has had lesser Division I players than their BigTen counterparts. And it's not even a close call. And yes, that still means that Michigan has some fine players. It's that the other BigTen schools have better players.

Name one elite D1 player from Michigan----any class.

And when you can't do that for Michigan, yet you can with ease for the other programs? There ya go....and it shows up on the scoreboard.
Farfromgeneva
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Re: Michigan 2023

Post by Farfromgeneva »

a fan wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:11 pm
Henpecked wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 5:03 pm
a fan wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 5:37 pm
gymman1031 wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 1:52 pm
TOADHALL wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 12:49 pm It seems the only thing the Michigan program is known best for is the "Blah, Blah Blah" about recruiting every year. Great academics, top notch facilities, super national recognition; IT'S TIME!

TOADHALL-That is EXACTLY what I have been saying over and over. With the recruiting that has been done, and them being MUCH more experienced and older this year, there are no excuses not to have better results.
There's a great excuse: the other teams in the BIg Ten have had better players since UMich went D1.
This is revisionist history. There have been several recruiting classes at Michigan that have been rated higher than Rutgers, Penn State and Ohio State over the past 10 years. Complete nonsense.
Revisionist history? I'm not talking about predictions about a bunch of HS players from some magazine.

I'm talking about the fact that UMich has had lesser Division I players than their BigTen counterparts. And it's not even a close call. And yes, that still means that Michigan has some fine players. It's that the other BigTen schools have better players.

Name one elite D1 player from Michigan----any class.

And when you can't do that for Michigan, yet you can with ease for the other programs? There ya go....and it shows up on the scoreboard.
When you see what Kevin Mack did as a 5th year at SBU, fine but not what you’d expect from a guy who was productive at Mich should tell you something.

Though Zawada appears to be the real deal. Don’t see nearly as much of that upper level talent in the middle or back half of the field. They’re basically hilly like a strong mid major type team. Some nice offensive parts and a few players but not enough depth or athleticism from the back half of the field. Look at most AE/NEC champs and you’d see a similar team.
Same sword they knight you they gon' good night you with
Thats' only half if they like you
That ain't even the half what they might do
Don't believe me, ask Michael
See Martin, Malcolm
See Jesus, Judas; Caesar, Brutus
See success is like suicide
a fan
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Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:05 pm

Re: Michigan 2023

Post by a fan »

Farfromgeneva wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:57 pm Though Zawada appears to be the real deal. Don’t see nearly as much of that upper level talent in the middle or back half of the field. They’re basically hilly like a strong mid major type team. Some nice offensive parts and a few players but not enough depth or athleticism from the back half of the field. Look at most AE/NEC champs and you’d see a similar team.
That's PRECISELY it. But people don't want to hear it, because they're fooled by the UMich marketing department into thinking that Branding= success in every sport.

Nope. Not how that works.

You've got mid major talent thrown into the BigTen. Conry isn't getting the elite kids....and I tried to tell the Forum that UMich isn't a magic recruiting wand back when they were calling for Coach Paul's head. They didn't want to hear it.

Oh well. Conry's contract was renewed by a wise AD that doesn't read Inside Lacrosse, thankfully......so Michigan gets a very competent coach reasonable time to build the program as best as he can.

Everyone is convinced that if they "get the right coach", elite recruits and Final Fours are sure to follow. The problem with this view, obviously, is that you can say the exact same thing about all the top 30 teams. Folks don't want to hear that.
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