NCAA reorg imminent

D1 Mens Lacrosse
LaxFan2000
Posts: 198
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:51 pm

Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by LaxFan2000 »

1766 wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:12 pm ND has said they need $75MM per year to remain independent. That is highly unlikely from where their last contract sat with NBC.

Sounds like cover to be joining either the SEC or B1G. ND is not an SEC school.
Everybody realizes that Amazon or Apple could give them that pocket change in a heartbeat. Don't rule them out one bit. It could be either of their ventures into CFB rights. The fanbase would complain at first, just because they are used to turning on the TV and the game goes right on. But they would come to terms with it really quick. That's a very serious potential outcome. Underestimate them at your own peril.
wgdsr
Posts: 9471
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:00 pm

Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by wgdsr »

ggait wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 12:46 pm
Notre Dame may take years (maybe a decade) to make a decision on conference membership. On the other hand, a sudden new development may force their hand to make a decision this year.
ND has had the right model all along. Ever since Knute Rockne boarded a train to play SC in Los Angeles 100 years ago, they have been playing in their own coast-to-coast, football only, made for TV, super-conference. And they separately have parked their other sports in a logical, normal sports conference (BE, now ACC).

Since they already play games in the Pac-12, B10, ACC, B12 every year, they have no incentive to ever join a conference so long as they continue to have access to the CFP (extremely likely). They'll be able to renew their NBC contract for a nice number.

And everyone overlooks this. When Bama plays in the Sugar Bowl, Vanderbilt gets the same payout from that as Bama does. When ND plays in the Orange Bowl, ND gets 100% of that payout.

Plus, ND really doesn't need the money. They have the highest endowment per student of any P5 team other than Stanford. More than Rice, Vandy, Northwestern. Also more than Dartmouth, Penn, Brown, Columbia and Cornell.

So long as the ACC GOR continues to stand up (likely), ND has clear sailing as an independent for another 10-12 years.
i think they got 11-12 million one year. maybe 4? clear of everyone else. a number likely to grow if they're involved in a playoff. and btw, just making the 4 team playoff as it stands now and losing 0-35 in the semis pays as much (to nd or a conference) as winning the title. they might even get more with a rando bowl out of the rotation that year.

in agreement on all of this. i would add as long as there's not some huge $$ delta that makes them less competitive. yes, they have a large endowment, but like the ivies or uva that doesn't help put you in the title conversation if that money doesn't bleed to the athletics side.

the idea that nd can't get what the average b1g team (purdue? wisco?) or sec team (auburn?) gets is pretty laughable, imo. so i don't see that as an issue.

and the b1g and sec are incentivized to have more teams in the playoff, not fewer.

is gor sticky? the events surrounding texas and okla would seem to point to yes.
wgdsr
Posts: 9471
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:00 pm

Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by wgdsr »

DocBarrister wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 10:04 am
wgdsr wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:56 pm
DocBarrister wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:19 pm
wgdsr wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 10:47 pm
DocBarrister wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 10:31 pm
wgdsr wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 9:53 pm
1766 wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:19 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 1:19 pm Getting paid to not win. What a great scam.

American universities create incredible devotion. Not really much different than pro sports though. Take any number of teams that don't ever win championships yet still sell out stadiums and have huge revenues. There are too many to list.

At the end of the day, it's entertainment, and that entertainment, in the B1G's case, is worth more money currently that the SEC. Winning the B1G championship in football isn't the NC, but in the circles of the conference, it's a close second.
curious, how do you come to the conclusion that the b1g entertainment is worth more money currently than the sec?

source?
B1G’s revenue distribution per school is higher than that of the SEC. B1G is number one, while the ACC is an anemic fifth.

When data analysis firm Navigate released its 2022 conference revenue projections in March, it had the Big 12 at $40.6 million, while the Big Ten was forecast at $57.2 million and the SEC at $54.3 million. The Pac-12 was projected at $34.4 million per school, while the ACC was at $30.9 million.

https://www.si.com/college/oklahoma/foo ... ars-behind

B1G is likely to pad that lead now that they have the two major Los Angeles sports programs, USC and UCLA.

SEC may dominate the football championships, but it’s the B1G that dominates the four largest media markets … New York, Philadelphia, Chicago, and Los Angeles.

DocBarrister
well, that projection's wrong, for one thing. they say as much in the top of the article re: the big 12.
what i recall, sec for conference money was at 54, b1g was 46-49, depending, big 12 43 and the acc 36+. pac 12 around 30.

not really a mountain of difference 1 or 2 slots apart, but the sec was the clear winner. you have an actual b1g number, not a projection?
Source for your numbers?

DocBarrister
https://www.wholehogsports.com/news/202 ... er-school/
https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/D ... enues.aspx
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/n ... 855686002/
you have google, right? noteworthy i wasn't asking you for your source. you just decided to (definitively, once again) chime in.
my recall, not source, was pretty good.
You need to do a bit more homework.

Those figures are from the 2020-2021 fiscal year, which were heavily skewed by the pandemic. SEC made the most revenue that fiscal year because they played the most football games in the 2020 pandemic football season. See the article below discussing this.

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-f ... -2021/amp/

The last figures from a “normal” pre-pandemic season (2019) were from the 2019-2020 fiscal year, which showed the B1G clearly ahead of the SEC.

https://www.si.com/college/indiana/.amp ... ue-indiana

The B1G also led all conferences in revenue (comfortably) during the 2018-2019 fiscal year, which included the 2018 season.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/c ... 414405002/

The 2021 season is the most recent “normal” season, but we will not see the actual figures for that season until 2023, when taxes are filed for the 2021-2022 fiscal year, hence the use of projected distributions.

The B1G is set to take a big lead anyway, since the conference is renegotiating its media contracts this year. I believe SEC contracts are up in 2024.

https://theathletic.com/3363313/2022/06 ... faq/?amp=1

The wild card may be whether the CFP expands. If the CFP expands to 12 teams, SEC revenue could get a big bump, assuming SEC teams dominate the playoff slots. Barring a development like that, B1G should continue leading in revenue because of its larger media markets.

Notre Dame going to the B1G, of course, would likely help the B1G pad their lead.

DocBarrister
there's no lead. that's my point, to you at least. my question to 66 was how he was thinking about that. as individual school total athletic revenue might also be what he was alluding to.

ya, i can read numbers on what year it is. the big 12 put out their '22 distro number. others haven't. mostly. here's a guy pretty entrenched, going to board meetings at umich with the actual ad:
https://saturdaytradition.com/michigan- ... chigan-ad/

certainly looks like the '22 b1g number is $50, not $57.

and you've probably also discovered that rev for '21, likely before and definitely after includes claw back on umd and rutgers to $29 mill. some or a lot of this is accounting mumbo jumbo. the $50+million covid testing... is that excluded so the '21 payout was really lower, or did that dink the payout? i've seen both reported. how did the sec do covid testing?

for '21, did you see the b1g sold 20% of their interest in b1g network so fox now owns 61% of the network? does that substantially nick their revenue from that going forward so they could one-time a higher payout that was going to be a big decline? was that desperate or always part of the plan?

bottom line... there are 2 conferences that are "in the lead". the answers to the above questions? you and i have no idea unless you're poring thru the docs.

fwiw, the sec tv contracts are up in 2034. that's likely why they needed texas and okla more than anything, they heard big #s whispered coming out of the b1g 6 months after signing away 10 years. so they could get a reset off of the b1g's negotiation. in late 2020 they negotiated their tier one game of the week from $55 million/year with cbs to $300 million w espn/abc. 2024-2034. that's an extra $250 m ($18 million per), but it and the next tier rights (also thru 2034) probably won't cut it once the b1g resets the market. ipso facto texas and okla in 2025.

so the b1g counters with usc/ucla, and it helps them both. as of now, they're distancing themselves on media dough. and unless either find real value in a school, they'll probably sit back and rake.
DocBarrister
Posts: 6104
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:00 pm

Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by DocBarrister »

wgdsr wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 4:43 pm
DocBarrister wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 10:04 am
wgdsr wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:56 pm
DocBarrister wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:19 pm
wgdsr wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 10:47 pm
DocBarrister wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 10:31 pm
wgdsr wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 9:53 pm
1766 wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:19 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 1:19 pm Getting paid to not win. What a great scam.

American universities create incredible devotion. Not really much different than pro sports though. Take any number of teams that don't ever win championships yet still sell out stadiums and have huge revenues. There are too many to list.

At the end of the day, it's entertainment, and that entertainment, in the B1G's case, is worth more money currently that the SEC. Winning the B1G championship in football isn't the NC, but in the circles of the conference, it's a close second.
curious, how do you come to the conclusion that the b1g entertainment is worth more money currently than the sec?

source?
B1G’s revenue distribution per school is higher than that of the SEC. B1G is number one, while the ACC is an anemic fifth.

When data analysis firm Navigate released its 2022 conference revenue projections in March, it had the Big 12 at $40.6 million, while the Big Ten was forecast at $57.2 million and the SEC at $54.3 million. The Pac-12 was projected at $34.4 million per school, while the ACC was at $30.9 million.

https://www.si.com/college/oklahoma/foo ... ars-behind

B1G is likely to pad that lead now that they have the two major Los Angeles sports programs, USC and UCLA.

SEC may dominate the football championships, but it’s the B1G that dominates the four largest media markets … New York, Philadelphia, Chicago, and Los Angeles.

DocBarrister
well, that projection's wrong, for one thing. they say as much in the top of the article re: the big 12.
what i recall, sec for conference money was at 54, b1g was 46-49, depending, big 12 43 and the acc 36+. pac 12 around 30.

not really a mountain of difference 1 or 2 slots apart, but the sec was the clear winner. you have an actual b1g number, not a projection?
Source for your numbers?

DocBarrister
https://www.wholehogsports.com/news/202 ... er-school/
https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/D ... enues.aspx
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/n ... 855686002/
you have google, right? noteworthy i wasn't asking you for your source. you just decided to (definitively, once again) chime in.
my recall, not source, was pretty good.
You need to do a bit more homework.

Those figures are from the 2020-2021 fiscal year, which were heavily skewed by the pandemic. SEC made the most revenue that fiscal year because they played the most football games in the 2020 pandemic football season. See the article below discussing this.

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-f ... -2021/amp/

The last figures from a “normal” pre-pandemic season (2019) were from the 2019-2020 fiscal year, which showed the B1G clearly ahead of the SEC.

https://www.si.com/college/indiana/.amp ... ue-indiana

The B1G also led all conferences in revenue (comfortably) during the 2018-2019 fiscal year, which included the 2018 season.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/c ... 414405002/

The 2021 season is the most recent “normal” season, but we will not see the actual figures for that season until 2023, when taxes are filed for the 2021-2022 fiscal year, hence the use of projected distributions.

The B1G is set to take a big lead anyway, since the conference is renegotiating its media contracts this year. I believe SEC contracts are up in 2024.

https://theathletic.com/3363313/2022/06 ... faq/?amp=1

The wild card may be whether the CFP expands. If the CFP expands to 12 teams, SEC revenue could get a big bump, assuming SEC teams dominate the playoff slots. Barring a development like that, B1G should continue leading in revenue because of its larger media markets.

Notre Dame going to the B1G, of course, would likely help the B1G pad their lead.

DocBarrister
there's no lead. that's my point, to you at least. my question to 66 was how he was thinking about that. as individual school total athletic revenue might also be what he was alluding to.

ya, i can read numbers on what year it is. the big 12 put out their '22 distro number. others haven't. mostly. here's a guy pretty entrenched, going to board meetings at umich with the actual ad:
https://saturdaytradition.com/michigan- ... chigan-ad/

certainly looks like the '22 b1g number is $50, not $57.

and you've probably also discovered that rev for '21, likely before and definitely after includes claw back on umd and rutgers to $29 mill. some or a lot of this is accounting mumbo jumbo. the $50+million covid testing... is that excluded so the '21 payout was really lower, or did that dink the payout? i've seen both reported. how did the sec do covid testing?

for '21, did you see the b1g sold 20% of their interest in b1g network so fox now owns 61% of the network? does that substantially nick their revenue from that going forward so they could one-time a higher payout that was going to be a big decline? was that desperate or always part of the plan?

bottom line... there are 2 conferences that are "in the lead". the answers to the above questions? you and i have no idea unless you're poring thru the docs.

fwiw, the sec tv contracts are up in 2034. that's likely why they needed texas and okla more than anything, they heard big #s whispered coming out of the b1g 6 months after signing away 10 years. so they could get a reset off of the b1g's negotiation. in late 2020 they negotiated their tier one game of the week from $55 million/year with cbs to $300 million w espn/abc. 2024-2034. that's an extra $250 m ($18 million per), but it and the next tier rights (also thru 2034) probably won't cut it once the b1g resets the market. ipso facto texas and okla in 2025.

so the b1g counters with usc/ucla, and it helps them both. as of now, they're distancing themselves on media dough. and unless either find real value in a school, they'll probably sit back and rake.
Actually, the article you cite has information indicating the payout will be closer to $60 million (the high $50s million). That is actually consistent with the original article I linked to.

You asked originally for information indicating that the Big Ten is a more valuable entertainment product than the SEC. That’s pretty much been established.

Again, the B1G is likely to expand its lead over the SEC after the new 2022 contract(s) are finalized.

DocBarrister
@DocBarrister
1766
Posts: 1214
Joined: Wed May 27, 2020 4:31 pm

Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by 1766 »

wgdsr wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 4:43 pm
DocBarrister wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 10:04 am
wgdsr wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:56 pm
DocBarrister wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:19 pm
wgdsr wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 10:47 pm
DocBarrister wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 10:31 pm
wgdsr wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 9:53 pm
1766 wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:19 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 1:19 pm Getting paid to not win. What a great scam.

American universities create incredible devotion. Not really much different than pro sports though. Take any number of teams that don't ever win championships yet still sell out stadiums and have huge revenues. There are too many to list.

At the end of the day, it's entertainment, and that entertainment, in the B1G's case, is worth more money currently that the SEC. Winning the B1G championship in football isn't the NC, but in the circles of the conference, it's a close second.
curious, how do you come to the conclusion that the b1g entertainment is worth more money currently than the sec?

source?
B1G’s revenue distribution per school is higher than that of the SEC. B1G is number one, while the ACC is an anemic fifth.

When data analysis firm Navigate released its 2022 conference revenue projections in March, it had the Big 12 at $40.6 million, while the Big Ten was forecast at $57.2 million and the SEC at $54.3 million. The Pac-12 was projected at $34.4 million per school, while the ACC was at $30.9 million.

https://www.si.com/college/oklahoma/foo ... ars-behind

B1G is likely to pad that lead now that they have the two major Los Angeles sports programs, USC and UCLA.

SEC may dominate the football championships, but it’s the B1G that dominates the four largest media markets … New York, Philadelphia, Chicago, and Los Angeles.

DocBarrister
well, that projection's wrong, for one thing. they say as much in the top of the article re: the big 12.
what i recall, sec for conference money was at 54, b1g was 46-49, depending, big 12 43 and the acc 36+. pac 12 around 30.

not really a mountain of difference 1 or 2 slots apart, but the sec was the clear winner. you have an actual b1g number, not a projection?
Source for your numbers?

DocBarrister
https://www.wholehogsports.com/news/202 ... er-school/
https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/D ... enues.aspx
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/n ... 855686002/
you have google, right? noteworthy i wasn't asking you for your source. you just decided to (definitively, once again) chime in.
my recall, not source, was pretty good.
You need to do a bit more homework.

Those figures are from the 2020-2021 fiscal year, which were heavily skewed by the pandemic. SEC made the most revenue that fiscal year because they played the most football games in the 2020 pandemic football season. See the article below discussing this.

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-f ... -2021/amp/

The last figures from a “normal” pre-pandemic season (2019) were from the 2019-2020 fiscal year, which showed the B1G clearly ahead of the SEC.

https://www.si.com/college/indiana/.amp ... ue-indiana

The B1G also led all conferences in revenue (comfortably) during the 2018-2019 fiscal year, which included the 2018 season.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/c ... 414405002/

The 2021 season is the most recent “normal” season, but we will not see the actual figures for that season until 2023, when taxes are filed for the 2021-2022 fiscal year, hence the use of projected distributions.

The B1G is set to take a big lead anyway, since the conference is renegotiating its media contracts this year. I believe SEC contracts are up in 2024.

https://theathletic.com/3363313/2022/06 ... faq/?amp=1

The wild card may be whether the CFP expands. If the CFP expands to 12 teams, SEC revenue could get a big bump, assuming SEC teams dominate the playoff slots. Barring a development like that, B1G should continue leading in revenue because of its larger media markets.

Notre Dame going to the B1G, of course, would likely help the B1G pad their lead.

DocBarrister
there's no lead. that's my point, to you at least. my question to 66 was how he was thinking about that. as individual school total athletic revenue might also be what he was alluding to.

ya, i can read numbers on what year it is. the big 12 put out their '22 distro number. others haven't. mostly. here's a guy pretty entrenched, going to board meetings at umich with the actual ad:
https://saturdaytradition.com/michigan- ... chigan-ad/

certainly looks like the '22 b1g number is $50, not $57.

and you've probably also discovered that rev for '21, likely before and definitely after includes claw back on umd and rutgers to $29 mill. some or a lot of this is accounting mumbo jumbo. the $50+million covid testing... is that excluded so the '21 payout was really lower, or did that dink the payout? i've seen both reported. how did the sec do covid testing?

for '21, did you see the b1g sold 20% of their interest in b1g network so fox now owns 61% of the network? does that substantially nick their revenue from that going forward so they could one-time a higher payout that was going to be a big decline? was that desperate or always part of the plan?

bottom line... there are 2 conferences that are "in the lead". the answers to the above questions? you and i have no idea unless you're poring thru the docs.

fwiw, the sec tv contracts are up in 2034. that's likely why they needed texas and okla more than anything, they heard big #s whispered coming out of the b1g 6 months after signing away 10 years. so they could get a reset off of the b1g's negotiation. in late 2020 they negotiated their tier one game of the week from $55 million/year with cbs to $300 million w espn/abc. 2024-2034. that's an extra $250 m ($18 million per), but it and the next tier rights (also thru 2034) probably won't cut it once the b1g resets the market. ipso facto texas and okla in 2025.

so the b1g counters with usc/ucla, and it helps them both. as of now, they're distancing themselves on media dough. and unless either find real value in a school, they'll probably sit back and rake.
The GOR may be sticky as you say, but it's not going to keep Ok and Texas in the B12. When push comes to shove, it won't keep the Acc together either.
wgdsr
Posts: 9471
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:00 pm

Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by wgdsr »

DocBarrister wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 4:58 pm
wgdsr wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 4:43 pm
DocBarrister wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 10:04 am
wgdsr wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:56 pm
DocBarrister wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:19 pm
wgdsr wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 10:47 pm
DocBarrister wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 10:31 pm
wgdsr wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 9:53 pm
1766 wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:19 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 1:19 pm Getting paid to not win. What a great scam.

American universities create incredible devotion. Not really much different than pro sports though. Take any number of teams that don't ever win championships yet still sell out stadiums and have huge revenues. There are too many to list.

At the end of the day, it's entertainment, and that entertainment, in the B1G's case, is worth more money currently that the SEC. Winning the B1G championship in football isn't the NC, but in the circles of the conference, it's a close second.
curious, how do you come to the conclusion that the b1g entertainment is worth more money currently than the sec?

source?
B1G’s revenue distribution per school is higher than that of the SEC. B1G is number one, while the ACC is an anemic fifth.

When data analysis firm Navigate released its 2022 conference revenue projections in March, it had the Big 12 at $40.6 million, while the Big Ten was forecast at $57.2 million and the SEC at $54.3 million. The Pac-12 was projected at $34.4 million per school, while the ACC was at $30.9 million.

https://www.si.com/college/oklahoma/foo ... ars-behind

B1G is likely to pad that lead now that they have the two major Los Angeles sports programs, USC and UCLA.

SEC may dominate the football championships, but it’s the B1G that dominates the four largest media markets … New York, Philadelphia, Chicago, and Los Angeles.

DocBarrister
well, that projection's wrong, for one thing. they say as much in the top of the article re: the big 12.
what i recall, sec for conference money was at 54, b1g was 46-49, depending, big 12 43 and the acc 36+. pac 12 around 30.

not really a mountain of difference 1 or 2 slots apart, but the sec was the clear winner. you have an actual b1g number, not a projection?
Source for your numbers?

DocBarrister
https://www.wholehogsports.com/news/202 ... er-school/
https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/D ... enues.aspx
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/n ... 855686002/
you have google, right? noteworthy i wasn't asking you for your source. you just decided to (definitively, once again) chime in.
my recall, not source, was pretty good.
You need to do a bit more homework.

Those figures are from the 2020-2021 fiscal year, which were heavily skewed by the pandemic. SEC made the most revenue that fiscal year because they played the most football games in the 2020 pandemic football season. See the article below discussing this.

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-f ... -2021/amp/

The last figures from a “normal” pre-pandemic season (2019) were from the 2019-2020 fiscal year, which showed the B1G clearly ahead of the SEC.

https://www.si.com/college/indiana/.amp ... ue-indiana

The B1G also led all conferences in revenue (comfortably) during the 2018-2019 fiscal year, which included the 2018 season.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/c ... 414405002/

The 2021 season is the most recent “normal” season, but we will not see the actual figures for that season until 2023, when taxes are filed for the 2021-2022 fiscal year, hence the use of projected distributions.

The B1G is set to take a big lead anyway, since the conference is renegotiating its media contracts this year. I believe SEC contracts are up in 2024.

https://theathletic.com/3363313/2022/06 ... faq/?amp=1

The wild card may be whether the CFP expands. If the CFP expands to 12 teams, SEC revenue could get a big bump, assuming SEC teams dominate the playoff slots. Barring a development like that, B1G should continue leading in revenue because of its larger media markets.

Notre Dame going to the B1G, of course, would likely help the B1G pad their lead.

DocBarrister
there's no lead. that's my point, to you at least. my question to 66 was how he was thinking about that. as individual school total athletic revenue might also be what he was alluding to.

ya, i can read numbers on what year it is. the big 12 put out their '22 distro number. others haven't. mostly. here's a guy pretty entrenched, going to board meetings at umich with the actual ad:
https://saturdaytradition.com/michigan- ... chigan-ad/

certainly looks like the '22 b1g number is $50, not $57.

and you've probably also discovered that rev for '21, likely before and definitely after includes claw back on umd and rutgers to $29 mill. some or a lot of this is accounting mumbo jumbo. the $50+million covid testing... is that excluded so the '21 payout was really lower, or did that dink the payout? i've seen both reported. how did the sec do covid testing?

for '21, did you see the b1g sold 20% of their interest in b1g network so fox now owns 61% of the network? does that substantially nick their revenue from that going forward so they could one-time a higher payout that was going to be a big decline? was that desperate or always part of the plan?

bottom line... there are 2 conferences that are "in the lead". the answers to the above questions? you and i have no idea unless you're poring thru the docs.

fwiw, the sec tv contracts are up in 2034. that's likely why they needed texas and okla more than anything, they heard big #s whispered coming out of the b1g 6 months after signing away 10 years. so they could get a reset off of the b1g's negotiation. in late 2020 they negotiated their tier one game of the week from $55 million/year with cbs to $300 million w espn/abc. 2024-2034. that's an extra $250 m ($18 million per), but it and the next tier rights (also thru 2034) probably won't cut it once the b1g resets the market. ipso facto texas and okla in 2025.

so the b1g counters with usc/ucla, and it helps them both. as of now, they're distancing themselves on media dough. and unless either find real value in a school, they'll probably sit back and rake.
Actually, the article you cite has information indicating the payout will be closer to $60 million (the high $50s million). That is actually consistent with the original article I linked to.

You asked originally for information indicating that the Big Ten is a more valuable entertainment product than the SEC. That’s pretty much been established.

Again, the B1G is likely to expand its lead over the SEC after the new 2022 contract(s) are finalized.

DocBarrister
jiminy xmas, you're impossible. it's literally an article about the upcoming 2023 budget. here is last year's meeting with the same guy but the numbers in focus are both the 2021 end fiscal year and the next, 21-22.
www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/colleg ... 728477002/
$44.8 million. then further down, a projection on next year's. a 9.7 million increase (sound familiar?). to $54.5 million. which given the next year's meeting, doesn't look like they hit, unless the michigan ad of all people is still completely in the dark. so oh for the last 2 vs sec?

this is chicken feed stuff you're focused on, even if you continue to be wrong. these schools bring in 100s of millions of dollars annually.

the contracts for b1g will start in 2023-24, not 2022. they are 2 years ahead of the sec in "new" negotiations payoff, but the bridge year of 2024-25 will see a minimum $18 mill bump each for sec if texas/okla don't come earlier. lockstep.
wgdsr
Posts: 9471
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:00 pm

Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by wgdsr »

1766 wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 5:40 pm The GOR may be sticky as you say, but it's not going to keep Ok and Texas in the B12. When push comes to shove, it won't keep the Acc together either.
so you believe texas and okla are waiting and will announce to go earlier? after these b1g negotiations?
ggait
Posts: 4073
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:23 pm

Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by ggait »

GORs seem to be working as designed. TX OK UCLA USC all are waiting until their GORs expire before moving.

ACCs GOR has 10+ years left. That is when the end game will happen.
Boycott stupid. If you ignore the gator troll, eventually he'll just go back under his bridge.
DocBarrister
Posts: 6104
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:00 pm

Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by DocBarrister »

ggait wrote: Thu Jul 21, 2022 1:44 am GORs seem to be working as designed. TX OK UCLA USC all are waiting until their GORs expire before moving.

ACCs GOR has 10+ years left. That is when the end game will happen.
ACC doesn’t have ten years. I certainly doubt Clemson and Florida State will wait 10 years.

If the ACC’s plan is to maintain the status quo into the 2030s, then that conference is already finished.

Waiting until 2025 is one thing, waiting a decade is another.

DocBarrister
@DocBarrister
DocBarrister
Posts: 6104
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:00 pm

ACC Commissioner Jim Phillips on Grant of Rights: “Everything is on the table.”

Post by DocBarrister »

ACC Commissioner Jim Phillips is not delusional. He knows the ACC grant of rights provision will not protect the ACC from complete and utter destruction. While remaining positive about the ACC, Phillips made it clear that the ACC is considering every option available to keep the ACC a viable conference.

Q. With regard to the grant of rights, you just referenced UCLA, USC, Oklahoma, and Texas. Due respect, Commissioner, they had two to three years left on the grant of rights. The grant of rights here lasts another 14 years. Do you really anticipate the conference and the university standing pat for that long?

JIM PHILLIPS: Everything is on the table. We understand what that means. We understand what that revenue means moving forward, but I will also say, as I look at the next few years, I like where we're going. But, again, the window is through '36, so we're going to have to address it, no question.
Your point is a good one. Your point is a good one.


https://www.si.com/college/syracuse/.am ... conference

Fact is, no grant of rights provision is ever going to keep the band playing as the ship sinks into the North Atlantic.

Commissioner Phillips understands that. Some on this forum? Maybe not so much. ;)

DocBarrister
@DocBarrister
wgdsr
Posts: 9471
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:00 pm

Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by wgdsr »

ggait wrote: Thu Jul 21, 2022 1:44 am GORs seem to be working as designed. TX OK UCLA USC all are waiting until their GORs expire before moving.

ACCs GOR has 10+ years left. That is when the end game will happen.
what's amazing to me is even the entities that have hand are crazy squeamish about being a bagholder if the value of their properties have topped.

so what it continues to look like... book long term, leave dough and options on the table. yes, the market value has never been better and has risks, but there have never been more suitors or even close.

to wit:
the nfl just booked another set of 11 year deals. sizable bump in year one at expiration. they have leverage like nobody else. the guess? no opt out in 5 years and re-bid.

everybody talks about the acc's strangling 20 year deal, and what about:
- sec did a 20 year tier 2+ deal in 2013. just did a 10 year deal to match timelines a year and a half ago after watching the b1g score with a short contract.
- nd switched up a 5 year re-up to 10 in 2015.

and these are entities that are leading properties! i am assuming here that tearing up the contract (in the sec's case) thru expansion is one of the few ways to get a "better" deal in the middle of it. so we have texas and oklahoma.

wonder if they had commissioners with more sack and a better negotiator what we'd have. at least the acc has a new guy in place, maybe he's got the skillset to pull something together. the gor (and length) reeks of risk aversion in the previous regime.

only delany has had the balls lately to be a unicorn.
wgdsr
Posts: 9471
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:00 pm

Re: ACC Commissioner Jim Phillips on Grant of Rights: “Everything is on the table.”

Post by wgdsr »

DocBarrister wrote: Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:05 am ACC Commissioner Jim Phillips is not delusional. He knows the ACC grant of rights provision will not protect the ACC from complete and utter destruction. While remaining positive about the ACC, Phillips made it clear that the ACC is considering every option available to keep the ACC a viable conference.

Q. With regard to the grant of rights, you just referenced UCLA, USC, Oklahoma, and Texas. Due respect, Commissioner, they had two to three years left on the grant of rights. The grant of rights here lasts another 14 years. Do you really anticipate the conference and the university standing pat for that long?

JIM PHILLIPS: Everything is on the table. We understand what that means. We understand what that revenue means moving forward, but I will also say, as I look at the next few years, I like where we're going. But, again, the window is through '36, so we're going to have to address it, no question.
Your point is a good one. Your point is a good one.


https://www.si.com/college/syracuse/.am ... conference

Fact is, no grant of rights provision is ever going to keep the band playing as the ship sinks into the North Atlantic.

Commissioner Phillips understands that. Some on this forum? Maybe not so much. ;)

DocBarrister
don't think you can name one person on here who thinks status quo would be rosy. or anyone that would say any different than phillips.

gor is a lever to give them a little time to figure out a solution, potentially. they should be working on it. espn is a concerned party to the value of their property. how much or in what direction that influences them is tbd.
ggait
Posts: 4073
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:23 pm

Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by ggait »

I certainly doubt Clemson and Florida State will wait 10 years.
Eye roll.

I'll let the SEC commissioner spell it out for you: SEC Commissioner Greg Sankey on expansion to the Network: Some schools have grant-of-rights "and we're not going to get in the middle of those."

Note that USC, UCLA, TX and OK all bailed just a few years in advance of when their GORs would have expired.

So sure Clemson and FSU can leave the ACC with 14 years left on their GORs. But they'll need to pay $$$$ to Wake, BC, Syr, etc. And they'd need to suck up lots of time and uncertainty to find out what the exit will cost them. Elon Musk probably isn't going to be forced to buy Twitter, but he is going to have to pay through the nose for walking away from a legally binding contract.

Recall that the current ACC GOR was implemented after UMD left for the B10. Realizing that UMD's existing GOR ($35M negotiated settlement) was too small, the ACC agreed to the current version. Up until recently, it was hailed as the master stroke that saved the ACC from falling apart. The whole point of the GOR was to make it close to impossible for a school to leave early. Making the ACC a sea of stability in the choppy waters of college football re-alignment.

Clemson and FSU gave away all of their exit leverage years ago. If they didn't like the current version of the GOR (FSU voted against it fyi), they could have left the ACC in 2016. Since they didn't, they'll have to bring a very very big wallet to the divorce negotiations.

The current version of the ACC may not last all the way through 2036, but it isn't going anywhere now.
Boycott stupid. If you ignore the gator troll, eventually he'll just go back under his bridge.
ggait
Posts: 4073
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:23 pm

Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by ggait »

gor is a lever to give them a little time to figure out a solution, potentially. they should be working on it. espn is a concerned party to the value of their property. how much or in what direction that influences them is tbd.
The ACC has a lousy TV contract with ESPN. Which means ESPN has a GREAT TV contract with the ACC. So please explain how/why ESPN would have any incentive to engineer an early blow up of its current sweetheart deal?
Boycott stupid. If you ignore the gator troll, eventually he'll just go back under his bridge.
wgdsr
Posts: 9471
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:00 pm

Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by wgdsr »

ggait wrote: Thu Jul 21, 2022 12:17 pm
gor is a lever to give them a little time to figure out a solution, potentially. they should be working on it. espn is a concerned party to the value of their property. how much or in what direction that influences them is tbd.
The ACC has a lousy TV contract with ESPN. Which means ESPN has a GREAT TV contract with the ACC. So please explain how/why ESPN would have any incentive to engineer an early blow up of its current sweetheart deal?
i of course don't know. there've been talks with the pac about a partnership and probably the big 12. the pac is in negotiation now, and maybe we'll know more soon.

the sec has a turrible contract thru 2034 as well. 20 years. and another one that won't end until 2024, then a good one thru 2034. they'll presumably get to blow that all up bc of texas and okla. could the acc do something similar? i dunno, probably not. gor smashed and schools go running.

could they find a streaming platform that will add $$ to both espn and the acc? possibly, for a player that wants in on the marketplace. might depend on whether espn/abc gets shut out of the b1g negotiations.

cbs wouldn't be bought out of their deal, it was and is the greatest of contracts.
https://sports.yahoo.com/espn-signs-3-b ... 50450.html
the new deal, even before texas and okla? worth almost what the acc and pac get for all of their independent tv contracts now, respectively. it's one football game a week.
ggait
Posts: 4073
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:23 pm

Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by ggait »

i of course don't know. there've been talks with the pac about a partnership and probably the big 12. the pac is in negotiation now, and maybe we'll know more soon.
It is open season for the Pac 12 and the Big 12 since their deals are expiring. Which is the only reason why UCLA USC OK and TX were loose in the socket.

ACC is certainly going to look at alliances, etc. to strengthen their collective hand. But FSU, Clemson bolting to the SEC is just not in the cards any time soon. Contracts have consequences.
Boycott stupid. If you ignore the gator troll, eventually he'll just go back under his bridge.
Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 32140
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

ggait wrote: Thu Jul 21, 2022 12:53 pm
i of course don't know. there've been talks with the pac about a partnership and probably the big 12. the pac is in negotiation now, and maybe we'll know more soon.
It is open season for the Pac 12 and the Big 12 since their deals are expiring. Which is the only reason why UCLA USC OK and TX were loose in the socket.

ACC is certainly going to look at alliances, etc. to strengthen their collective hand. But FSU, Clemson bolting to the SEC is just not in the cards any time soon. Contracts have consequences.
Have you read anything about UCLA potentially being required to share revenue with Cal if Regents determine that Berkley would be impaired by UCLAs departure?
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
Turnandrake
Posts: 361
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:07 am

Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by Turnandrake »

:!:
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Thu Jul 21, 2022 12:59 pm
ggait wrote: Thu Jul 21, 2022 12:53 pm
i of course don't know. there've been talks with the pac about a partnership and probably the big 12. the pac is in negotiation now, and maybe we'll know more soon.
It is open season for the Pac 12 and the Big 12 since their deals are expiring. Which is the only reason why UCLA USC OK and TX were loose in the socket.

ACC is certainly going to look at alliances, etc. to strengthen their collective hand. But FSU, Clemson bolting to the SEC is just not in the cards any time soon. Contracts have consequences.
Have you read anything about UCLA potentially being required to share revenue with Cal if Regents determine that Berkley would be impaired by UCLAs departure?
https://247sports.com/college/maryland/ ... Y_0m842CiM
wgdsr
Posts: 9471
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:00 pm

Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by wgdsr »

Turnandrake wrote: Thu Jul 21, 2022 1:31 pm :!:
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Thu Jul 21, 2022 12:59 pm
ggait wrote: Thu Jul 21, 2022 12:53 pm
i of course don't know. there've been talks with the pac about a partnership and probably the big 12. the pac is in negotiation now, and maybe we'll know more soon.
It is open season for the Pac 12 and the Big 12 since their deals are expiring. Which is the only reason why UCLA USC OK and TX were loose in the socket.

ACC is certainly going to look at alliances, etc. to strengthen their collective hand. But FSU, Clemson bolting to the SEC is just not in the cards any time soon. Contracts have consequences.
Have you read anything about UCLA potentially being required to share revenue with Cal if Regents determine that Berkley would be impaired by UCLAs departure?
https://247sports.com/college/maryland/ ... Y_0m842CiM
$100 million debt in 3 years? the b1g sure knows how to go after the kill. find the weak animal.
ggait
Posts: 4073
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:23 pm

Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by ggait »

Rutgers umd ucla luckiest schools in history.

Reports are that Big 12 isn’t interested in a merger or alliance with the PAC 12. But seriously considering grabbing the four corners schools.

Wonder if some kind of acc pac12 alliance is coming.
Boycott stupid. If you ignore the gator troll, eventually he'll just go back under his bridge.
Post Reply

Return to “D1 MENS LACROSSE”