NCAA reorg imminent

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OCanada
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NCAA reorg imminent

Post by OCanada »

Wheels
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Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by Wheels »

This will definitely hurt those of us who follow D1 lacrosse. It probably means several programs shuttering. At the D2 and D3 levels, though, this probably is a good thing all around.
10stone5
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Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by 10stone5 »

For lacrosse, tournament expansion ?

If lacrosse - the NCAA or the USILA or the 70 DI schools themselves are simply put, going to self-govern, then an expansion
of the tournament seems likely.

More inter-divisional play ?
This was the case in lacrosse through the 90s.
So I could see that.

Otherwise, that SI article was really, mostly addressing
Power 5 issues, football and basketball.
Last edited by 10stone5 on Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bart
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Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by Bart »

10stone5 wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:42 pm
For lacrosse, tournament expansion ?

If lacrosse - the NCAA or the USILA or the 70 DI schools are
simply put, going to govern themselves, then an expansion
of the tournament seems likely.

More inter-divisional play ?
This was the case in lacrosse through the 90s.
So I could see that.

Otherwise, that SI article was really, mostly addressing
Power 5 issues, football and basketball.
But those issues trickle directly downward in the form of $$.....does it not?
Essexfenwick
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Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by Essexfenwick »

UMDs Tom McMillen and Damon Evans are right in the thick of it.

Nobody knows where this will end up. But I used to be a huge college basketball fan and the game has gotten really boring in the regular season. March madness is still great though. The paying of players will ruin it for me. I’m not interested in minor league sports without the illusion of student/athlete that makes it more special even though it’s fake. Pro is great. Minor league is meh. The whole scenario is very interesting and fortunately lax is not a money maker.
Typical Lax Dad
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Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
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HooDat
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Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by HooDat »

like water seeping through a building - given time, money corrupts everything....

it seems like we are approaching the point where the damage to the ncaa has become structural.
STILL somewhere back in the day....

...and waiting/hoping for a tinfoil hat emoji......
LaxPundit07
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Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by LaxPundit07 »

I can see some type of scenario in the future where football becomes its own entity; where college teams compete against one another with no affiliation to, or governance by, the NCAA. They already have their own championship series that is not run by the NCAA (CFP). It seems like a natural step. As long as schools remain committed to using football and March Madness revenue to help fund the rest of their athletic department, this should not impact the viability of athletic programs participating in NCAA sanctioned sports and representing their institutions.
Farfromgeneva
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Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by Farfromgeneva »

Where does title IX fit into all of this?
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Thats' only half if they like you
That ain't even the half what they might do
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Dip&Dunk
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Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by Dip&Dunk »

Farfromgeneva wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:37 pm Where does title IX fit into all of this?
Good question and I believe the answer is it changes nothing.

The text of Title IX states, "No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance."

The NCAA has argued that Title IX did not apply to athletic departments, because those departments did not directly receive federal funds.

But proponents of women's sports pushed back. By the late 1970s, college athletics departments had to comply with Title IX or risk losing federal funding.

Title IX does not require equal spending on men's and women's teams. Yet inequities in funding can translate to unequal treatment.

A U.S. Department of Education report from 2019 found that 87% of NCAA schools "offered disproportionately higher rates of athletic opportunities to male athletes compared to their enrollment."

Without reading that report in detail, I am not sure what that exactly means but it does not take much to read between lines that unequal treatment is implied. I do not feel Title IX is completely done adjusting the balance but where Div I goes, Title IX will go with it.
Farfromgeneva
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Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by Farfromgeneva »

How would athletic departments even account for NIL private deals?

There’s a three pronged test and I’m pretty sure spending feeds into proportionality within that.

I guess what I’m wondering is how departments can possibly manage the accounting for all the side deals that will get done. Seems worse for non revenue sports with larger rosters, as well as D2 & D3 football where some will laugh but I could see a few hundred here and there easily going to some small school football players. Go check out the towns where U Mary Hardin Baylor, U Wisconsin Whitewater or Alliance OH where Mt Union exists if you think that sounds extreme. Good for anyone that can get book money but imagine having to incorporate that into title IX accounting.
Same sword they knight you they gon' good night you with
Thats' only half if they like you
That ain't even the half what they might do
Don't believe me, ask Michael
See Martin, Malcolm
See Jesus, Judas; Caesar, Brutus
See success is like suicide
oldbartman
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Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by oldbartman »

The NCAA vote on D3 schools with a D1 program in any sport being allowed to offer athletic scholarships is on 1/22. Fingers crossed for my Statesmen, RIT & Union hockey, and whomever else it would benefit. This cr@p has gone on way too long.
a fan
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Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by a fan »

Farfromgeneva wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:53 pm How would athletic departments even account for NIL private deals?
Why would they need to do that? And it's none of their business, right? What would give your school the right to know how much you earn at your job?

They have to be hands off. No other choice. They can't regulate NIL's, full stop, without forcing the The Justice Department’s antitrust division leader into action.

Did you see the warning letter the DoJ sent to the NCAA? IMHO, the NCAA would be nuts to do anything other than shrug their shoulders at any NIL deals, or any work a student does to pay bills.

All they have to do is use this bar: treat the NCAA kids just as they would any other student when it comes to work. If they don't do that? The DoJ could act.

I worked in college. Never had to tell anyone a thing about it. That's the bar, if you ask me, as a non-lawyer.

Heck, what's keeping someone from buying the RIGHTS to use a player's NIL, without actually using it? Nothing. And yep, that makes things a mess compared with what we're used to seeing.
smoova
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Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by smoova »

Farfromgeneva wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:53 pm Go check out the towns where U Mary Hardin Baylor ...
This made me chuckle. Bailed several of my troops out of the Bell County Jail during the 5 years I spent at Hood. Good times. You're right though, there are some creative deals cut in central Texas.
Farfromgeneva
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Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by Farfromgeneva »

a fan wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:21 am
Farfromgeneva wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:53 pm How would athletic departments even account for NIL private deals?
Why would they need to do that? And it's none of their business, right? What would give your school the right to know how much you earn at your job?

They have to be hands off. No other choice. They can't regulate NIL's, full stop, without forcing the The Justice Department’s antitrust division leader into action.

Did you see the warning letter the DoJ sent to the NCAA? IMHO, the NCAA would be nuts to do anything other than shrug their shoulders at any NIL deals, or any work a student does to pay bills.

All they have to do is use this bar: treat the NCAA kids just as they would any other student when it comes to work. If they don't do that? The DoJ could act.

I worked in college. Never had to tell anyone a thing about it. That's the bar, if you ask me, as a non-lawyer.

Heck, what's keeping someone from buying the RIGHTS to use a player's NIL, without actually using it? Nothing. And yep, that makes things a mess compared with what we're used to seeing.
It’s not accounting to the NCAA but to the federal govt. The payment is in fact tied to their athletic performance so it’s not a private sector gig the way you describe. The Feds are going to want to know that student athletes are being treated equally. It’s not as simple as just a private sector side job I don’t believe.
Same sword they knight you they gon' good night you with
Thats' only half if they like you
That ain't even the half what they might do
Don't believe me, ask Michael
See Martin, Malcolm
See Jesus, Judas; Caesar, Brutus
See success is like suicide
Farfromgeneva
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Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by Farfromgeneva »

smoova wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 7:47 am
Farfromgeneva wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:53 pm Go check out the towns where U Mary Hardin Baylor ...
This made me chuckle. Bailed several of my troops out of the Bell County Jail during the 5 years I spent at Hood. Good times. You're right though, there are some creative deals cut in central Texas.
The Friday Night Lights culture is very real down there.
Same sword they knight you they gon' good night you with
Thats' only half if they like you
That ain't even the half what they might do
Don't believe me, ask Michael
See Martin, Malcolm
See Jesus, Judas; Caesar, Brutus
See success is like suicide
a fan
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Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by a fan »

Farfromgeneva wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:31 am It’s not accounting to the NCAA but to the federal govt.
Sure. Employers and employees are all bound to Federal and State laws.
Farfromgeneva wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:31 am The payment is in fact tied to their athletic performance so it’s not a private sector gig the way you describe.

Immaterial. The DoJ just told the NCAA that they can't interfere in free market principles.

The bar, to me, is simple: treat all students the same when it comes to employment. It's easy. It's simple, and uncluttered. Anything more risks DoJ intervention. And again....we're not lawyers, but the intent behind that DoJ warning letter was crystal clear to this reader.

The first athlete that sues, telling their school "my work is none of your d*mn business"? That's it...in comes the DoJ. If the NCAA's or Colleges' lawyers haven't explained this to them, I pity their clients.
Farfromgeneva wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:31 am The Feds are going to want to know that student athletes are being treated equally. It’s not as simple as just a private sector side job I don’t believe.
I agree that the government is always involved when it comes to employment.

But based on that warning letter from DoJ, I can't see how the NCAA or a College can come anywhere near any outside employment dealings without violating anti-trust rules.

Pretend you're from the NCAA or a College. Can you explain to the DoJ why you should have one shred of information about a student's lawful job?
Farfromgeneva
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Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by Farfromgeneva »

I think the DOJ or feds can come in and demand any records they want if they want as it pertains to civil rights. A college caught not having it will have problems I can guarantee.

And of course for calculating financial aid they’ll have record of student income.
Same sword they knight you they gon' good night you with
Thats' only half if they like you
That ain't even the half what they might do
Don't believe me, ask Michael
See Martin, Malcolm
See Jesus, Judas; Caesar, Brutus
See success is like suicide
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HooDat
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Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by HooDat »

Why can't Alabama eliminate football as a sport it offers, and then lease its stadium and logo to a professional team that is owned by the Alumni Association?

The team could pay the athletes enough to cover tuition, room & board, and other expenses plus whatever spending money they want - NIL's would factor in I am guessing. Football becomes a "side job" for the "student". I see no reason why Bama, Texas, ND, Georgia, etc...

The only hurdle I see is that for it to work, they all have to do it at once.
STILL somewhere back in the day....

...and waiting/hoping for a tinfoil hat emoji......
Farfromgeneva
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Re: NCAA reorg imminent

Post by Farfromgeneva »

HooDat wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:02 pm Why can't Alabama eliminate football as a sport it offers, and then lease its stadium and logo to a professional team that is owned by the Alumni Association?

The team could pay the athletes enough to cover tuition, room & board, and other expenses plus whatever spending money they want - NIL's would factor in I am guessing. Football becomes a "side job" for the "student". I see no reason why Bama, Texas, ND, Georgia, etc...

The only hurdle I see is that for it to work, they all have to do it at once.
How do you justify admission of many of the kids under that construct?
Same sword they knight you they gon' good night you with
Thats' only half if they like you
That ain't even the half what they might do
Don't believe me, ask Michael
See Martin, Malcolm
See Jesus, Judas; Caesar, Brutus
See success is like suicide
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