Spallina, Gait, Syracuse, NIL

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HopFan16
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Re: Spallina, Gait, Syracuse, NIL

Post by HopFan16 »

a fan wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:30 pm
HopFan16 wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:25 pm
a fan wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:01 pm
HopFan16 wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:43 pm
SCLaxAttack wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:33 pm As long as Gary has no ownership issue in Gait Lacrosse I'm not seeing the issue at all, and even then I'm not sure there's an issue. It's just another equipment provider signing a student to a NIL contract.
You don't see any issues with the possibility of a coach laundering money to players and recruits? None? Or a coach himself profiting financially as the result of a company's partnership with a player? (Not saying that is what Gary Gait is doing, but this could set a certain precedent, no?)

Student-athletes should be able to profit off their NIL — so long as they're not making deals with their own coaches. Feel like that's pretty basic stuff. If Gary has absolutely nothing to do with Gait Lacrosse anymore then I guess it's fine? But what are the chances of that? At the very least it seems like something the school or brand, or ideally both, would want to come out and address head on to prevent speculation. "Coach Gait has no financial interest in the Gait Lacrosse brand, which is fully owned and operated by Paul Gait" or something along those lines. If there was a lacrosse media that actually cared instead of just carrying water for programs, these are the kinds of questions they'd be asking, and it's perfectly fair to ask them.
Why would it matter? Nike has how many deals with NCAA football and basketball coaches? Would that prohibit a player under said coaches from getting a NIke deal? It should be prohibited if you’re worried about conflict of interest.
Maybe it should? Regardless, a player and coach both happening to have their own independent deals with the same large company strikes me as ethically very different from, and less conducive to impropriety than, a company that a coach himself co-owns then going and cutting a deal with one of that coach's players. Especially if we're talking about a niche company in a niche sport, which we are in this case, and not a company like Nike, which is one of the biggest apparel companies in the world with millions of consumers and thousands of these kinds of brand deals.
Disagree. Gait has to sell stuff from the endorsemen to line his pockets, assuming he has an ownership stake.

Saban…to throw out a potential example…just has to get more of his players on a Nike deal to further line his pockets from Nike . And to further the success of his football program—-which also lines his pockets. It’s worse.
The coach "lining his pockets" as a result of his own personal deals that may or may not increase/decrease in value depending on the success of his players is less of a potential issue than the coach effectively paying recruits out of his own pocket. That's what got us into this mess. Players should be able to strike their own deals, and profit off their own NILs, without having to worry about impropriety. I don't think too many people care if Nick Saban makes a little extra cash from a brand deal indirectly off the success of his team. He's already been doing that for decades. It's called his contract.
primitiveskills
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Re: Spallina, Gait, Syracuse, NIL

Post by primitiveskills »

It just shows you how poorly the NCAA has responded to NIL in its ability to regulate the impact it will have on its organization and activities. Not a shock, mind you. Gait Lacrosse is a legitimate business, but this is shady and the lack of guardrails is obvious. If I'm a coach (or a coach's family), is there anything to stop me from setting up a shell company, funding that entity with booster money, and then funneling that to recruits I want through a "NIL" deal? Maybe I'm missing something here?
a fan
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Re: Spallina, Gait, Syracuse, NIL

Post by a fan »

Then don’t worry about the Gait deal.

You can’t be ok with one, and clutch pearls at the other. NIL rules opened the free market.

Does Saban own Nike stock?
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HopFan16
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Re: Spallina, Gait, Syracuse, NIL

Post by HopFan16 »

a fan wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:05 pm Then don’t worry about the Gait deal.

You can’t be ok with one, and clutch pearls at the other. NIL rules opened the free market.

Does Saban own Nike stock?
I'm not clutching pearls, I'm asking questions, but yes, I absolutely can hold a view about one instance and another view about the other instance because they're entirely different things.
primitiveskills
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Re: Spallina, Gait, Syracuse, NIL

Post by primitiveskills »

a fan wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:05 pm Then don’t worry about the Gait deal.

You can’t be ok with one, and clutch pearls at the other. NIL rules opened the free market.

Does Saban own Nike stock?
To be clear, I believe the issue is NIL itself. Why not just pay the student-athletes? Whenever you set up a facade (NIL) to justify what you really want to do (pay athletes), it becomes rife for abuse. It is analogous to "medical marijuana" as a facade to legalize cannabis.

Bottom line- just pay the athletes and you won't have to worry about all the shady nonsense.
a fan
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Re: Spallina, Gait, Syracuse, NIL

Post by a fan »

They’re both subject to ncaa rules. That’s how they are the same. But yep, Saban and Gait have different names. So drawing analogies is impossible.

Do you know of any rule governing nils that specifically prohibit what YOU think is a conflict of interest?
a fan
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Re: Spallina, Gait, Syracuse, NIL

Post by a fan »

primitiveskills wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:14 pm
a fan wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:05 pm Then don’t worry about the Gait deal.

You can’t be ok with one, and clutch pearls at the other. NIL rules opened the free market.

Does Saban own Nike stock?
To be clear, I believe the issue is NIL itself. Why not just pay the student-athletes? Whenever you set up a facade (NIL) to justify what you really want to do (pay athletes), it becomes rife for abuse. It is analogous to "medical marijuana" as a facade to legalize cannabis.

Bottom line- just pay the athletes and you won't have to worry about all the shady nonsense.
No argument from me.

And the shady nonsense was started by the Nick Sabans of the world, and their employers—-that horse left the barn decades ago. I’m happy the players get whatever cut they can.

But I’d be thrilled if they capped coaching staffs and administrator salaries to whatever the players get per year in room and board. If amateurism is honestly import? Hold EVERYONE to that financial standard, instead of just the kids.
Typical Lax Dad
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Re: Spallina, Gait, Syracuse, NIL

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

primitiveskills wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:14 pm
a fan wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:05 pm Then don’t worry about the Gait deal.

You can’t be ok with one, and clutch pearls at the other. NIL rules opened the free market.

Does Saban own Nike stock?
To be clear, I believe the issue is NIL itself. Why not just pay the student-athletes? Whenever you set up a facade (NIL) to justify what you really want to do (pay athletes), it becomes rife for abuse. It is analogous to "medical marijuana" as a facade to legalize cannabis.

Bottom line- just pay the athletes and you won't have to worry about all the shady nonsense.
I believe the NIL is a mistake. Pay the players a stipend and set up a trust and some other benefits. I believe the players should share some of the pie. This NIL as constructed isn’t sustainable.
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
primitiveskills
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Re: Spallina, Gait, Syracuse, NIL

Post by primitiveskills »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:22 pm
primitiveskills wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:14 pm
a fan wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:05 pm Then don’t worry about the Gait deal.

You can’t be ok with one, and clutch pearls at the other. NIL rules opened the free market.

Does Saban own Nike stock?
To be clear, I believe the issue is NIL itself. Why not just pay the student-athletes? Whenever you set up a facade (NIL) to justify what you really want to do (pay athletes), it becomes rife for abuse. It is analogous to "medical marijuana" as a facade to legalize cannabis.

Bottom line- just pay the athletes and you won't have to worry about all the shady nonsense.
I believe the NIL is a mistake. Pay the players a stipend and set up a trust and some other benefits. I believe the players should share some of the pie. This NIL as constructed isn’t sustainable.
Agree 100%
wgdsr
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Re: Spallina, Gait, Syracuse, NIL

Post by wgdsr »

primitiveskills wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:03 pm It just shows you how poorly the NCAA has responded to NIL in its ability to regulate the impact it will have on its organization and activities. Not a shock, mind you. Gait Lacrosse is a legitimate business, but this is shady and the lack of guardrails is obvious. If I'm a coach (or a coach's family), is there anything to stop me from setting up a shell company, funding that entity with booster money, and then funneling that to recruits I want through a "NIL" deal? Maybe I'm missing something here?
you obviously haven't heard about texas a&m's $30 million deal with their next recruit class.
Typical Lax Dad
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Re: Spallina, Gait, Syracuse, NIL

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

a fan wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:21 pm
primitiveskills wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:14 pm
a fan wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:05 pm Then don’t worry about the Gait deal.

You can’t be ok with one, and clutch pearls at the other. NIL rules opened the free market.

Does Saban own Nike stock?
To be clear, I believe the issue is NIL itself. Why not just pay the student-athletes? Whenever you set up a facade (NIL) to justify what you really want to do (pay athletes), it becomes rife for abuse. It is analogous to "medical marijuana" as a facade to legalize cannabis.

Bottom line- just pay the athletes and you won't have to worry about all the shady nonsense.
No argument from me.

And the shady nonsense was started by the Nick Sabans of the world, and their employers—-that horse left the barn decades ago. I’m happy the players get whatever cut they can.

But I’d be thrilled if they capped coaching staffs and administrator salaries to whatever the players get per year in room and board. If amateurism is honestly import? Hold EVERYONE to that financial standard, instead of just the kids.
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
wgdsr
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Re: Spallina, Gait, Syracuse, NIL

Post by wgdsr »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:22 pm
primitiveskills wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:14 pm
a fan wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:05 pm Then don’t worry about the Gait deal.

You can’t be ok with one, and clutch pearls at the other. NIL rules opened the free market.

Does Saban own Nike stock?
To be clear, I believe the issue is NIL itself. Why not just pay the student-athletes? Whenever you set up a facade (NIL) to justify what you really want to do (pay athletes), it becomes rife for abuse. It is analogous to "medical marijuana" as a facade to legalize cannabis.

Bottom line- just pay the athletes and you won't have to worry about all the shady nonsense.
I believe the NIL is a mistake. Pay the players a stipend and set up a trust and some other benefits. I believe the players should share some of the pie. This NIL as constructed isn’t sustainable.
the doj doesn't agree with you:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/n ... 599747002/

do nil and transfer portal now, do it right or we will do it for you.
- doj
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HopFan16
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Re: Spallina, Gait, Syracuse, NIL

Post by HopFan16 »

a fan wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:16 pm They’re both subject to ncaa rules. That’s how they are the same. But yep, Saban and Gait have different names. So drawing analogies is impossible.

Do you know of any rule governing nils that specifically prohibit what YOU think is a conflict of interest?
Yes, coaches still cannot offer money to high school kids as any kind of incentive, recruiting or otherwise, nor are they permitted to broker deals for players and prospects. I'm not saying Gait is doing either of those things. But when the company literally has the guy's name on it, and as wgsdr noted, he appears to have been a business partner as of 2019, then it seems worth asking the question for clarity.
Typical Lax Dad
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Re: Spallina, Gait, Syracuse, NIL

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

wgdsr wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:27 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:22 pm
primitiveskills wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:14 pm
a fan wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:05 pm Then don’t worry about the Gait deal.

You can’t be ok with one, and clutch pearls at the other. NIL rules opened the free market.

Does Saban own Nike stock?
To be clear, I believe the issue is NIL itself. Why not just pay the student-athletes? Whenever you set up a facade (NIL) to justify what you really want to do (pay athletes), it becomes rife for abuse. It is analogous to "medical marijuana" as a facade to legalize cannabis.

Bottom line- just pay the athletes and you won't have to worry about all the shady nonsense.
I believe the NIL is a mistake. Pay the players a stipend and set up a trust and some other benefits. I believe the players should share some of the pie. This NIL as constructed isn’t sustainable.
the doj doesn't agree with you:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/n ... 599747002/

do nil and transfer portal now, do it right or we will do it for you.
- doj
How does the DOJ disagree?
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
a fan
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Re: Spallina, Gait, Syracuse, NIL

Post by a fan »

HopFan16 wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:27 pm
a fan wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:16 pm They’re both subject to ncaa rules. That’s how they are the same. But yep, Saban and Gait have different names. So drawing analogies is impossible.

Do you know of any rule governing nils that specifically prohibit what YOU think is a conflict of interest?
Yes, coaches still cannot offer money to high school kids as any kind of incentive, recruiting or otherwise, nor are they permitted to broker deals for players and prospects. I'm not saying Gait is doing either of those things. But when the company literally has the guy's name on it, and as wgsdr noted, he appears to have been a business partner as of 2019, then it seems worth asking the question for clarity.
Coaches can’t. Companies can. Does Saban own Nike stock?

Ask your questions. We’re good here .
primitiveskills
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Re: Spallina, Gait, Syracuse, NIL

Post by primitiveskills »

wgdsr wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:23 pm
primitiveskills wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:03 pm It just shows you how poorly the NCAA has responded to NIL in its ability to regulate the impact it will have on its organization and activities. Not a shock, mind you. Gait Lacrosse is a legitimate business, but this is shady and the lack of guardrails is obvious. If I'm a coach (or a coach's family), is there anything to stop me from setting up a shell company, funding that entity with booster money, and then funneling that to recruits I want through a "NIL" deal? Maybe I'm missing something here?
you obviously haven't heard about texas a&m's $30 million deal with their next recruit class.
Hadn't heard that but not surprised. Just need to come up with an equitable way to pay athletes (see TLDs post) and alot of this goes away. Or, at least detection and enforcement of workarounds becomes a lot easier.
Typical Lax Dad
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Re: Spallina, Gait, Syracuse, NIL

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

primitiveskills wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:36 pm
wgdsr wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:23 pm
primitiveskills wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:03 pm It just shows you how poorly the NCAA has responded to NIL in its ability to regulate the impact it will have on its organization and activities. Not a shock, mind you. Gait Lacrosse is a legitimate business, but this is shady and the lack of guardrails is obvious. If I'm a coach (or a coach's family), is there anything to stop me from setting up a shell company, funding that entity with booster money, and then funneling that to recruits I want through a "NIL" deal? Maybe I'm missing something here?
you obviously haven't heard about texas a&m's $30 million deal with their next recruit class.
Hadn't heard that but not surprised. Just need to come up with an equitable way to pay athletes (see TLDs post) and alot of this goes away. Or, at least detection and enforcement of workarounds becomes a lot easier.
I wonder if the DOJ would have weighed in if players were being paid. Seems like personal service contracts as a rider to a scholarship would suffice. DOJ may see it differently. I don’t know.
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
wgdsr
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Re: Spallina, Gait, Syracuse, NIL

Post by wgdsr »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:28 pm
wgdsr wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:27 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:22 pm
primitiveskills wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:14 pm
a fan wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:05 pm Then don’t worry about the Gait deal.

You can’t be ok with one, and clutch pearls at the other. NIL rules opened the free market.

Does Saban own Nike stock?
To be clear, I believe the issue is NIL itself. Why not just pay the student-athletes? Whenever you set up a facade (NIL) to justify what you really want to do (pay athletes), it becomes rife for abuse. It is analogous to "medical marijuana" as a facade to legalize cannabis.

Bottom line- just pay the athletes and you won't have to worry about all the shady nonsense.
I believe the NIL is a mistake. Pay the players a stipend and set up a trust and some other benefits. I believe the players should share some of the pie. This NIL as constructed isn’t sustainable.
the doj doesn't agree with you:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/n ... 599747002/

do nil and transfer portal now, do it right or we will do it for you.
- doj
How does the DOJ disagree?
they clearly have told the nc$$ they won't be limiting nil in anything but the narrowest of ways.

and the idea is a stipend and a trust? that is simply not flying.
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youthathletics
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Re: Spallina, Gait, Syracuse, NIL

Post by youthathletics »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:42 pm
primitiveskills wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:36 pm
wgdsr wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:23 pm
primitiveskills wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:03 pm It just shows you how poorly the NCAA has responded to NIL in its ability to regulate the impact it will have on its organization and activities. Not a shock, mind you. Gait Lacrosse is a legitimate business, but this is shady and the lack of guardrails is obvious. If I'm a coach (or a coach's family), is there anything to stop me from setting up a shell company, funding that entity with booster money, and then funneling that to recruits I want through a "NIL" deal? Maybe I'm missing something here?
you obviously haven't heard about texas a&m's $30 million deal with their next recruit class.
Hadn't heard that but not surprised. Just need to come up with an equitable way to pay athletes (see TLDs post) and alot of this goes away. Or, at least detection and enforcement of workarounds becomes a lot easier.
I wonder if the DOJ would have weighed in if players were being paid. Seems like personal service contracts as a rider to a scholarship would suffice. DOJ may see it differently. I don’t know.
Just wait until they get their 1099. Although, surely there are some creative ways to pay them. Hell, PRO players can barely manage their money....much less a 19-20 year old.
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
JPAtlantic
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Re: Spallina, Gait, Syracuse, NIL

Post by JPAtlantic »

wgdsr wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:45 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:28 pm
wgdsr wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:27 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:22 pm
primitiveskills wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:14 pm
a fan wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:05 pm Then don’t worry about the Gait deal.

You can’t be ok with one, and clutch pearls at the other. NIL rules opened the free market.

Does Saban own Nike stock?
To be clear, I believe the issue is NIL itself. Why not just pay the student-athletes? Whenever you set up a facade (NIL) to justify what you really want to do (pay athletes), it becomes rife for abuse. It is analogous to "medical marijuana" as a facade to legalize cannabis.

Bottom line- just pay the athletes and you won't have to worry about all the shady nonsense.
I believe the NIL is a mistake. Pay the players a stipend and set up a trust and some other benefits. I believe the players should share some of the pie. This NIL as constructed isn’t sustainable.
the doj doesn't agree with you:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/n ... 599747002/

do nil and transfer portal now, do it right or we will do it for you.
- doj
How does the DOJ disagree?
they clearly have told the nc$$ they won't be limiting nil in anything but the narrowest of ways.

and the idea is a stipend and a trust? that is simply not flying.
Any chance the NCAA becomes like the professional leagues without salary caps?

The businesses run by alumni (and coaches) could really take over.

Charlie Batch just offered someone $1 million to play football for Eastern Michigan.

It will be very interesting to see how this all plays out.
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